So actually many counties banned this, what they call the "burkakini", and that seems just fine. If a girl can't go swimming with a bikini on in saudia Arabia, then why is a Muslim woman allowed to swim with her clothes on in France or England? And actually normally people are supposed to be swimming in clothes suitable for... swimming. and again, people need to understand that these are not just the traditional clothes for arabs like "just their culture" thing. It's because the Quran says that women are property of their husbands and no one else should see them. I'm also shocked to see that feminists are on the muslim side.
It should be banned
No they should allow it
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Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused (Quran 33:59)
Should Muslim women be allowed to swim with clothes on?
The Burkinis that I have seen have been made from swimwear fabrics. I think Burkinis are great. There is of course the question of whether or not women being covered is a symbol of oppression, but that is another matter. I think it is wonderful that Muslim women have the possibility to do swimming and other water activities or go to the beach.
My only issue is that when I worked at a public pool, I was made aware (by other women) that many Burkini-wearers put on their Burkini at home and did not shower before entering the pool. I cannot tell whether they showered at home before leaving for the pool, but it does bother me that they might not have showered before entering the water.
It may be, and some Muslim women may see it that way. But some Muslim women have told me that they cover their hair because Allah has told them to (through the Quran), and they wish to please Allah, and therefore they do not see this as oppressive.
Allowing women to wear burkinis allows them to gain some of the health benefits of training and being active, and they can get to socialise at the pool/beach.
People should be able to wear whatever they want to wear. Besides how can you ban women from swimming with clothes on? Are you going to call the police to the beach every time a woman gets in the water with a long dress? We would end up becoming just as oppressive as the Muslim countries that you criticise.
It would be up to the hotel to determine their own dress policy. But providing that a woman wearing a burkini does not harm anyone else then I don't see why it should be a problem.
I believe in the personal agency of any woman to dress modestly according to her own beliefs. Burkinis are appropriate swim attire.
I don't support the overall oppression of women in the Middle East, but on an individual basis, I don't need to persecute people because of their religion.
Well modesty is a thing. But in Islam it's not the same way as in christianity and Judaism. If you read the update I just wrote. And Islam says that women are more like a property to their husbands
@vald9inches Yeah, and I do, but I certainly don't think we need to make this form of religious expression illegal. It hurts nothing for a woman to wear a burkini.
If they’re swimming material than sure but everyday clothing? No. It brings in bacteria and detergents which reacts with pool chemicals to make people sick and effects the water clarity
Sorry I didn’t read the detail 😝 Women WANT to wear these. It’s not their husbands forcing them to, they feel more comfortable with a sense of modesty that’s in line with their religion. Why is it ok to tell them not to wear it? We don’t try and force western women to wear a string thong bikini instead of a one piece so why is it ok to tell Muslim women not to wear a burkini? They’re also super sun smart which is crucial in Australia haha
Rules around the cleanliness/pool ability to handle fabrics are kind of shocking to us now. For most of the mid 20th century many US pools separated men’s and women’s swimming and didn’t allow boys/men to wear anything. This was true at some UK schools as well and only wound down in the 1970s.
I don't care what you swim in. But a lot of clothes (like the bikini) are actually not bat suitable for swimming. Really they are just to show off your body. They aren't practical for swimming. But many mens shorts aren't either.
Regardless, I don't like that beaches have become places for everyone to basically wear nothing. But I'm not religious and I don't want to forbid anything legally. Unless it's nudity, that's not right. I don't care if it's at s beach. If you get naked, you should be arrested for indecency. Unless at a designated beach.
You took a verse out of the Qur'an and didn't back it up with context behind it. This verse was referring to when the prophet and Islam were under attack, and people tried to hurt the female members of his family, and female followers of Islam so he advised them to cover up in order to protect them from his and Islam's enemies.
And it doesn't say "force your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves," it says "tell" them to.
Well if you're Arab, I'm arab too. And I think we can agree that trying to understand the way the Quran Is written is so hard. So if this was just for a short period why are muslims still doing it now, not ISIS that are forcing women to do so but saudia Arabia and Iran
@Nadim171 Firstly, I'm not Arab I'm Pakistani. Secondly, that's a good question. That is because a lot of Muslims don't understand the context behind verses. It's not Islam's fault, it's the Muslim's misconception.
So you mean that saudia Arabia is wrong about what they do to women and are against Muhammed's teachings? And probably 90% of Muslim clerics support what saudia is doing? But how about this?:
Sahih al bukhari 2658: Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
Muslim activists are always saying that Muhammed said these things because of the situation. But how could women be created with half a mind in just a specific time? If God (allah) have created women with half the mind of a man this means that all women are so. "That's because of the dignity of a woman's mind" that means women in general actually because he wasn't taking about a certain woman
That's how you infer it. She's not saying God created women to have half a mind in a certain time.
Everybody is born with a blank mind. Muhammad may have been referring to the group of women he was with at that certain time and let's look at the quote again: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" So the prophet asked this question. The women said, "Yes." It was the women who said that their witness was equal to half of a man's. He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
Now he may not have been referring to the witness, moreover, the fact that the women believed their witness was half of a man's. He may have been saying they were uneducated not that all women were stupid.
"Deficiency" "a lack or shortage" He was saying they lacked something, and because he was talking about the mind he could have been talking about education. Because education brings knowledge which is stored in the mind.
I wasn’t raised in that culture so I don’t have a good understanding about the subject. However, it’s just crazy to me. What’s the point of even going swimming if you’re gonna do it with clothes on.
I see what you're saying, and understand why it bothers you, but I could care less what someone wears when they swim, Muslim or not. There are non Muslims who prefer to keep their clothes on while swimming. A lot of cultures practice modesty, not just Muslims. Would it bother you if it was a Hindu girl swimming with her clothes on?
As long as they're not telling ME to cover up, or saying shit like "German women poison the water", I could care less what they wear when they're swimming
I understand. Well modesty is a thing and swimming with clothes is another. There is one piece swimsuits for women. There is even hotels here in Egypt that banned it
@SpiderManFan2002 try going to their country, wearing a thong at the beach. they don't allow our culture their, so why would we allow their culture here?
@genericname85 If they're gonna eat shit are we? They may not allow somebody to wear a thong in their country but that is down to them being closed minded. Shouldn't we try and be the better people by giving people a choice? Shouldn't we be a better society by welcoming different cultures and learn about them, not being ignorant of the world as global citizens?
@SpiderManFan2002 so when they forbid people to wear what they want that's up to them but we can't do the same in our own country? no we should foster our own culture instead of denying it just so foreigners can do what they want here. we don't get that right there, why should we give them the right here?
Well I do agree with you but I disagree in the same time... it's not like that, that sounds more like some kids fighting with each other. We shouldn't allow it because it's wrong not just because they don't allow it there.
@SpiderManFan2002 they forbid you to wear a bikini there based on religious bullshit. here we don't go into the pool with full on street clothes, cause that is detrimental to the pool water and the adherent cleaning system. there's a purely technical rationale that makes it reasonable to forbid it.
Do you even know what a burkini is made out of? It's like a wetsuit only it doesn't display show off your figure:
And okay, let's put religion aside. What if a woman who is an atheist, wants to go swimming but she prefers being modest and wants to wear a burkini for that reason? Are you going to ban her from wearing it too?
The classic excuse: If they don't allow ours there, why should we allow theirs here? Is a childish excuse which I've heard most used in a school playground.
@SpiderManFan2002 that's not the kind of thing your initial image was showing xD
if you wanna go swimming and be super modest, make it how they do in their society. you go to an all women swiming pool.
i guess wearing those spefic swimming clothes would be permissable but people would still rightfully raise their eyebrows at you. cause that's just not our culture atheistic or religious doesn't "really" matter... it's like if you go to a sauna, you undress. that's what sauna is. if you don't wanna undress, you don't go to the sauna.
Who said anything about going to a sauna? Swimming can be more than just showing your body off, it keeps you healthy and is good for some disabilities.
But it's not a sport, is it? You can't stop somebody from doing a sport simply because they don't feel comfortable showing their body off whether it is for religious reasons or not. Some people just don't like that kind of thing, and as fellow human beings we have to accept it, even if it doesn't fit how we'd do something.
Not everyone goes swimming as a form of sport. Some people just do it as a form of... relaxation? That's different than swimming competitions with swimming glasses. The problem is not modesty, it's the reasons behind it
Racist? So anyone that criticizes Islam is a racist, so according to you Islam is a race. Completely ignoring the fact that I'm Egyptian myself and considered an Arab.
You literally said that Muslims kill innocent people, don’t even try and turn this back on me. I don’t care what religion or whatever you are, what you said was straight up disgusting.
It's not me that said so, it's the author of the Quran: Qur’an 9:123—O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness. Sahih Muslim 33—“I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah.”
These are Islam's most trusted sources, I'm sorry if me criticizing this is offensive, but killing non believers and blowing them up is even more offensive
Not every Muslim is like that, a lot of my closest friends are Muslim and they are the most amazing people you could ever meet. What you said is extremely degrading and offensive.
Well, me too some of my closest friends are muslims, and they're completely peaceful and respectful people. And I don't hate muslims, if I do you can't call me a Christian no more. I hate Islam itself. The message of the Quran is not a peaceful one, but many muslims are peaceful because: Some haven't read the Quran and are just told that it's peaceful, because they are good people. And some are acting so in the west to deceive people and make them follow Islam and spread Islam, because that's the same method that Muhammed used to deceive the Jews and then.. well he beheaded 600 of them. https://youtu.be/QjvfaZIDLCg That video explains it better
I don't think it's ok to swim in saggy clothes. They should design a muslim style swimmingsuit. It's completely wrong material for a swimmingpool. Like I would swim with my jumper on.
Not only are they allowed here, they're allowed in swim competitions (where normal rules only permit women's suits from knee neckline with bare shoulders)
I have no problem with it at all. If for whatever reason a woman decides that this is what she wants to wear while swimming or at the beach, why should it be a problem for anyone. The woman is doing no harm to no one.
Yeah, well that too. I wouldn't say it's normal if a nun goes swimming with nun clothes on. But in general I think we must completely ban hijabs and burkas. And a further step ban Islam itself.
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