So, the vast majority of the time I talk about being an egalitarian with feminists, they get huffy and offended. A lot of the time, I get something along the lines of "feminism is necessarily egalitarian; but focuses on the disproportionate, female side of of the issues."
This line of reasoning has never made sense to me. For one thing, if you're claiming to already be egalitarian, why not just call yourself that and save everyone the confusion?
For another... I don't think it's been demonstrated there is a huge disparity in men's and women's issues. I don't want to get into all of the issues effecting men, because I don't want to turn this into a proverbial dick-waving competition. But I told my sister over lunch 'I just don't think think there's anything a man can do, in this day and age, that a woman can't.'
"Legally, or socially?" she huffs.
"Yes."
She was a single mother for a bit, so she makes a fuss over how guys can go out and have sex, and it's no big whup, but girls get criticized for it. Yeah, bros are gonna fist-bump for getting a shot of tang, but a lot of people look down on guys for being whores. You've probably bragged to your friends about a hot piece of ass too.
"Well... As a man, you can go out and have sex for pleasure, and not have to worry about the consequences."
"Uh... okay..." Wanted to enjoy the rest of my lunch. Actually, she said that while I was in the middle of a dry-spell, so premise one falls on its face right of the bat. Then, there's STDs, psychos, and other things I actually would have to worry about. Then there's the point she was getting at, that I could've just been a deadbeat dad... except there's already a system in place where the mom can track me down and dock my paychecks for child support... She wouldn't have to, but she totally could, and it's not my fault women out there don't always choose to go after the money they're entitled to to raise the little parasite.
So no. I don't think feminism is a useful or valuable concept in the west anymore. If you say I should be a feminist as part of being an egalitarian... fuck that, that's an extra, unnecessary label.
I have no problem pushing feminism in countries where women can't drive or go out without a guy, or where clits are being cut off though.
Men and women will never be equal. We are different and created for different things and that is ok. Nothing should have become negative on that note.
Im sorry, it had to turn in to some damn gang war. It a shame we can no longer value the opposite for what the other "worth" and how that value is "equal" one is not better than the other.
The problem is "mankind" egos. Something that was supposed to work together got fucked. I can not be a feminist when I have no desire to be as tough as a "man" when I am tough in all the great senses that make me a woman and a person beyond my vagina.
@GraveDoll I understand what you say, when you say we cannot be 'equal' because men and women are different. I think that the 'Equal' term needs to be defined. Do we choose a path, similar to racial integration of schools, from the past, and go to something like 'Separate, but Equal', but it really isn't? I would say no!! I can only speak from my experience, when I say that just about every woman I have been in a relationship with has been a better, more caring, more compassionate, understanding, and an accepting person, than any guys I have known. They have valuable traits that I respect, and honor, and how they are with kids, and caring... I don't think I have this 'ego' that you mention, but I know that most men do!! It's sad, that they cannot see, like I do, and maybe let that go, because maybe it just masks a fear of inadequacy? My brother has trusted me with his 8 year old autistic son, a few times, for several hours! I was TERRIFIED, the whole time!! I don't know how to relate to him? What if he gets hurt? What if I do something wrong, and he FREAKS out (I guess they call it 'melt-down' among Autistics? But I DON'T KNOW!!!) It went well, almost every time, and I just did my best, and things I liked, and he decided he liked them too!! He was AMAZED, watching me take apart my lawn mower, and replace the spark plug, and change out the oil!! The point is, we all have different skills, and abilities, and we shouldn't even try, to be "EQUAL" but rather excel as who we are, and respect the unique abilities of each other, and not try to think any one is better, or greater, than the other. The Yin and Yang, separate, different, but united, and needing each other to be 'complete.' Oh, and women should DEFINITELY GET EQUAL PAY!! That pay disparity is just beyond shameful!! Personally, some guys like me, actually like assertive, strong-willed women, like you sound like!!
Feminism is cancer. It is a movement full of ugly unhappy cat ladies. It is the enemy of a loving functional family. I hate feminism. I have never seen a woman get so much hate as I did when a close friend decided to be a stay at home mom to raise her children. All her feminist friends called her every name in the book and said she should be working. Wtf? It's her decision! Horrible people with horrible ideas that are anti family. Count me out!
I disagree. I think people should follow the Bible, in which men are the leaders BUT leaders are expected to serve the people whom they lead, instead of being served (Matt 20:25-28), prioritize the interests of the people whom they lead, over their own interests (Phil 2:3-4) even to the point of giving up their life if necessary (Eph 5:25).
Also, from a Biblical perspective, the man is obligated to protect (Neh 4:14) & provide for all of his wife's needs (Ex 21:10, & Eph 5:28-29). So basically the man is expected to build or pay for a house, whereas the woman is expected to make the house a home (1 Tim 5:14).
Yes, women are expected to submit (Eph 5) but it's not hard to submit to someone who serves you & puts your interests before their own, as the Bible commands of husbands and leaders.
I think the Biblical arrangement is the best for women, unlike the modern egalitarian worldview. People don't realize that if men and women have the same exact roles, that inevitably means that women are contributing much more than men, because women are the ones who go through all the burden of childbearing. The Bible gives men some responsibility.
Why would any sensible person be part of a hate group that pushes bullshit false victim culture and fabricated statistics?
Feminism doesn't even know the definition of "respect"? Feminist can't even agree amongst themselves. They hate anyone who has a different belief than them. Look up Erin Prezzy, Norah Vincent, or Casey Jaye... for a few examples.
The CORE of feminism is hate and misandry. Solanas, Greer, Dworkin, Steinem. These are the core voices of feminism. They are all misandrist. Groups like NOW and WAR and the female UN have ALL pushed misandry. These are the biggest groups of feminism.
SO if you plan on trying to claim it's the fringe few "radicals"... it's the core, not the fringe.
Most feminist like yourself have no actual reference for actual feminism because you were indoctrinated by social justice nonsense in your school system as a naive child and were convinced you were a victim and told to protect the idea that it's "good" any way you can.
If you take 5 seconds to look up the ACTIONS of feminism outside the feminist echo chamber, you will quickly see what feminism really is.
The pink downvote is exactly the problem. Feminist would rather ignore the truth and simply disagree than accept they are wrong and admit they are part of the problem.
The terminology "feminism" and "patriarchy" alone stands in opposition to equality. It frames things as women = good; men = evil, aggressive oppressors. Does that sound like equality to you? It alienates men, if anyone hasn't understood that yet.
If we equated being in favor of equality (which almost EVERYONE already is, btw) with being a feminist, then noone would be allowed to oppose feminists. Which would give them free reign to say and do whatever they want, even if it is ANTI-equality (which it often is). I mean, what kind of asshole would oppose equality, after all?
Such a powerful idea as equality shouldn't have a label. Because people will ABUSE the power of that label. That is inevitable. Why do you care so much that people call themselves that word, I wonder? Over 90% of all people believe that men and women should have the same rights, the same freedoms, and should be judged equally by their actions. If that was all you actually cared about, it wouldn't matter to you, that under 20% of people call themselves feminists. Which leads me to question your motives.
I think this is about having an identity to you. About using a label to boost your profile.
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Also, we're talking about the people who brought us the words "manspreading" and "mansplaining" and "manterrupting" and "manbaby" and "manderstanding" and "bropropriating" and "man-feels" and "man-tears", as well as feminist movies, where kicking guys in the crotch so hard they need surgery, with the comment that "he kicked himself in the balls", or castrating them with a gun gets portrayed as "girlpower".
Are you fucking serious? Do you really believe, that they are in favor of equality? That the movement isn't completely corrupted? Do you believe, that ANY guy who doesn't keep his marbles in a jar is interested in supporting that shit?
No. There will never be a point in time when everyone thinks we’re all equal. No matter what there will always be someone who thinks they’re better than you. As a black female I care more about my race than gender. When im judged its because im black, not because im female. I want equality for everyone, every race, gender, sexuality idc. Not just genders. I’ve also noticed a lot of people believe feminism is the belief that girls are better than guys and should be treated as such , which it’s not. Feminism has changed a lot from what it originally was which was sad, especially because you have girls painting with period blood to be empowering which is just gross.
You're actually judges as being black AND a woman. It's called intersectionality: how multiple identities that you have attribute to the overlapping discrimination that you can face.
@AuroraRoseat Could you just take a second to consider the fact that you just argued with another individual that (I'm assuming) you have never before interacted with on this site, let alone met in real life, over HER life experiences? You have the audacity to claim that you know HER life experiences better than SHE does, just because you have been oh so enlightened by your rigid ideology? How absolutely fucking arrogant can you possibly be?
1) I wasn't arguing. I was making a point that she might not realize about how she can be (and how plenty of women are) discriminated by both sex and race.
2) You're making invalid assumptions. When did I ever claim that I knew her better than herself? When did I argue? What you have done is respond irrationality and make judgments when I've stated that she can face discrimination on two fronts.
There is no epiphany to be had based on your comment except the fact that I now consider you ignorant. Thanks for that.
1) "You're" --- You are. That is an absolute statement. Nowhere in your claim did you imply that it was a mere suggestion. You were making a matter-of-fact statement.
2) It could certainly have been a *possibility* that she has faced discrimination on two fronts. However, she clearly stated, "When [she is] judged its because [she is] black, not because [she is] female." Thus your claim suggested that you know something about her experiences that she does not--which is an impossibility.
Depends, are we talking classical feminism? 2nd, 3rd, 4th wave? Neo Feminism? Or the crazy topless bra burning I hate all men kind? Thing is feminist is an incredibly broad description, and unless you narrow it down I can’t really answer. So I’ll answer the best I can. I believe everyone has the same basic human rights, and should be treated as such unless extenuating circumstances apply (their a mass murderer, serial killer, repeated rapist etc.) therefore everyone in theory should believe in equal rights for everyone. This is in line with classical feminist teachings, which I readily and whole heartedly embrace. Modern feminism on the other hand teaches hatred of men in general for the actions of a few, and encourages women to enter a victim mindset. This breeds resentment on both sides, and ultimately ends up being a step back instead of one forward. So I do believe everyone should be a classical feminist, but I don’t believe anyone should be a modern/neo feminist.
Should everyone be for the fair treatment of others? Yes.
Should everyone be Feminists? No
Feminism is a WOMAN'S EQUALITY movement. In short it doesn't help men and that's half the entire world.
If everyone put their efforts into improving women's rights inequality would develop very quickly. Feminists have constantly proved that they do not know when their rights are equal or above men's.
It's just logic that if you improve something constantly it's going to become very strong no Matter where it started.
That's the problem I have with Feminism, when they reach equality (which they have in the west) they won't know they did and will just keep helping themselves, thus making inequality.
No absolutely not, My opinion is you can be pro women's rights, and not be a feminist,
I asked the feminist community a question some time ago, if they claim to be pro women, then why are they so silent about the treatment of women in Europe and the middle east, the sex trade worldwide? No answer.
That is ignoring how blatantly anti men they are, i get some of them are genuine but they have to take a cold hard lo9k at the effects of feminism on society, matter of fact they do and they say they have not done enough, i say they have done too much.
Disagree, because feminism is not "just about equality of the sexes". It is a specific political movement that also seeks to further a left wing, collectivist agenda. Feminism does not have a monopoly on equality of the sexes. I can (and do) believe in equality of the sexes, without identifying as a feminist.
N9, if only for the sole reason that divergent ideas and opinions must exist in order to come to a better, more logical or rational conclusion.
Besides, if feminism became mainstream, the term would disappear, and we would call those who are pro-male masculinists, but we can’t ever all agree on the same thing, and it’s a good thing for our species.
That's never been what feminism is about. The word you are looking for is "egalitarian".
Reminder that the feminist movement shunned black people for years because sufragettes didn't want to get mixed in with what would become the civil rights movement.
I don't know who gave me a thumbs down, but I urge you to read a history book. Feminists wanted nothing to do with the rights of black people back when it was hard to find support. They're only getting involved now because it's so much easier. I can't make this shit up.
For one thing, if enough people want to live differently then they should be able to do that.
But furthermore, I just don’t think it’s good in general. The theories and conclusions are twisted and awful. I support women’s right’s (which should just be called human rights), not feminism. A lot of people don’t seem to realize that they are different things.
No feminists has become a leach on society once done great things but they use that as a pass to do shitty things now feminists is shot for both males and females it doesn’t empower women it pushes them somewhere they may not want to be I am a egalitarian as I believe man = woman that’s it I treat you as good and as shit as any man so you would probably not get so much special treatment but hey equality and all
I can't stand the word feminists since it has such ugly connotation with it nowdays and how stupid feminists ruin it for other women.
Moreover, I strongly support fairness and justice between genders and to help the oppress.
I don't support women being treated like second class citizens or mistreated, abused as they were in the past by wicked men when men knew women depended on men for food and shelter among other things.
@Girther10 If you're a feminist, you're an idiot. My bird was an idiot, but I loved her. It was kind of a joke, but it's true. Billy hated guys. I named him, Billy, because after shelling out 700 bucks for the fucker, I was promised that he was a he. Why did I want a he? Because they are said to be smarter and more likely to have the ability to talk. But a year later, the little bastard started to lay eggs. That was my first clue that I'd been duped. By then there was nothing I could do. Billy was family. Billy couldn't talk for shit, but she was great at killing spiders. And she really did hate guys.
@SandyRay- Awww, what a sweet adorable warm story.. not. You say you paid thinking it was a male, and you wanted a male bc you know in all species, the smartest is always the male, so of course you chose a male. I get it. You’re story had me laughing so much, I feel like I did 1000 sit-ups... lol It must be nice to have an extra 7 hundred bucks laying around...🤔
No no no no no hell fuckin no, sorry but feminism actively fights against equal rights at almost every turn, dehumanizes half the human population while victimizing the other half, feminism is for women who like to play the victim, if you want equality then fight against feminism
A feminist is an individual who believes in equality, equity, and justice across all spectrums and the ending of patriarchal societies which demean both men and women so both are equal in society.
Exactly. You're making a biased assumption based on your personal experience. It's not logical. Many feminists believe as I've said. Many, unfortunately, have lost their way.
Believe what you will though. Just know that not all Feminists are man-haters, many of us do want equal rights for all men and women, and that our society demeans men just as badly as women (high suicide rates and depression among men stems from societal expectations and pressures such as being unable to care for their family translating as weakness and more). It can be a horrible lonely place for a man to exist.
I'm egalitarian. I dont support curent feminist movment comes packed with a bunch of irrelevant garbage that's hurting relations between men and women.
I love, and respect women, but I can't answer you, because I need to know YOUR definition, of what 'Feminism' is, to you, as it seems so different to so many!
If everyone was a feminist everyone would cease to exist- eventually. Unless you kept a few male specimens around just for their sperm... nothing else... lol
I ain't no feminist, fuck those people always complaining and blaming men for shit nope nope nu uh no no nope nope not today hell naw hell naw nope nope na na na not today
Last time I checked mankind was not a hivemind with everyone having the same exact thoughts. I'd like us to stay that way and not turn into a beehive of any sort.
Even if the data is misrepresented, wouldn’t businesses only hire women because it’s cheaper and the paying of employees is one of the biggest liabilities, if they really get paid less than men institutionally?
Do you honestly think businesses are such such boys clubs that giving advantages to men is more important than their profits and shareholder interests? There’s no law against it at least not in the US.
I don't think it's overrated but global warming is equally important (as are the rights of others). But a lot of people here (on GaG) don't believe it.
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