“The left is losing the middle.” What do you think this means in today’s climate? Was Elon Musk correct?

[Anonymous]

Updates

+1 y

I believe Mr. Musk is correct. I think he is alluding to the fact that when it comes to extreme views on each side, there are more within the general left that hold views in accordance with the extremist of their side, as opposed to the right. In other words, the far right holds a super small % of those on the conservative side, whereas many more on liberal side hold views similar to those who we all would reasonably conclude are extremist in their views. in my opinion and observation

Updates

+1 y

On the left, it is perhaps MORE DIFFICULT to determine who are the extremist/unreasonable persons versus who are the moderates. The line differentiating the different factions within the left is more vague, fogging, opaque, dim, etc.

On the right, it is fairly obvious who the far or extreme right is, at least it is to most people from my observation.

[NamerOfStars]

Twenty years ago, Bill Maher criticized a think-piece saying that liberals were "out of touch" with conservative values, saying that "We're not out of touch with them; we don't share them. We don't believe that your air is poison and your job is gone and your son is splattered across a desert you couldn't find on a map, but the REAL problem afflicting the nation is that somewhere, boys are kissing each other". I agreed with him wholeheartedly.

But that was twenty years ago; things have shifted. Now it's the left claiming that sure, your air is still poison, and your entire business is gone, and your civil rights are dying faster than "black guy"-brand radios in a horror movie, but the REAL problem afflicting the nation is that MTF transsexuals are being excluded from women's sports.

Take the propaganda out of the picture, and you'll find that most people don't differ much on what they call evil; they differ enormously on what evils they call excusable. It's about priorities, not goals.

[normalice]

That might have been true before 1/6 because it was easy to dismiss the left's warning about the far right as hypothetical due to the right levying similar warnings about the left (for that purpose, of course - the right has whole media empires dedicated to coming with clever ways to say "I known you are but what am i"). But since then? I don't know. The far right fake news is trying to downplay and deflect just as they did about all of shady Republican business before 1/6: I suspect some subset of center-right leaners will say "but wait a minute. You gave the same sort of convincing dismissals about the left's concerns before 1/6 but they proved to be right - we, in fact, proved them right. As someone genuinely on the fence I'll have to go with concluding you are wrong again."

Now, will a critical mass of right leaners come to that conclusion? Probably not. Hard to say...

[Asker]

I think there the left is having an issue where the more extreme views are seeping into more moderate/middle views. The fringe elements are tainting the more reasonable/moderate left to the point where the line of differentiation isn't so bold but opaque.

For the right, it's always been simple to see the line/differentiate between the moderate right and the confederate flag-waving, and KKK-supporting far-right.

Think of it like this:

The far right is on an island, far from the mainland and therefore effectively isolated from everyone else. They're their own unique thing.

The moderate left and right share a giant landmass/mainland, where there is a physical split in the middle, where the liberal types occupy the left side of the landmass and the conservative types occupy the right side of the landmass.

The extreme left is far left, although, they're not on an island isolated from the mainland.
They are attached to the mainland, albeit, with a thin/narrow strip of land.

This allows them fairly easy access to the mainland.

They still have that connection to the mainland, where they can cause all sorts of danger and influence on it.

Overtime, that thin/narrow strip of land becomes wider and wider to the point where the far left just molds with the left side of the mainland...

Becoming one in the same

[normalice]

There aren't really any extreme views on the left. That is, the only extreme view is the "eat the rich" trope, but people are mostly joking about that. Fair wages and having billionaires pay their taxes aren't extreme views. You could argue reparations for centuries of systematic inequity is an extreme view, but in what way? If you're trying to say that inequity doesn't exist, that's simply false. Acknowledging reality is not an extreme view. If it's the suggested method or price tag for addressing that inequity that you take issue with, alright, but none of the methods involve hurting anyone, so I don't know what would be extreme about it. Drastic? Sure. Over the top? Maybe. But none of it is dangerous.

I actually think it's the inverse of what you are saying. Things like ending gerrymandering, getting dark money out of politics, and making the rich pay their employees a fair wage have been central to the left's agenda for centuries. Indeed, in a certian light, you could say "making the rich pay their employees a fair wage" is what the civil war was about. But the far right has nothing to do but scam people, since they had given up on substance decades ago. So they just say all of those central themes to the left are now extreme themes, thus making it look like the extreme is seeping into the middle, if you fall for those themes being extreme.

I swear I'm going to put "none of this is new" on my gravestone.

[DaisyM23]

Definitely agree because people in the middle are ‘moderates and the right are taking over a lot now. With the example of the uk, in our last general election, Corbyn was the leader of the Labour party (traditionally representing left/centre left) but Corbyn was very left and basically excluded all the moderates (and Scotland) and Conservatives won. I think for many, the right seems more... I don’t even know the word but just more ideal for their beliefs I guess? Because moderates aren’t really socialists so they’re prefer the conservative side more

[CharlieDrag]

Yeah but even the Conservatives in the UK aren't proper right. That would be something like UKIP. UK is going towards a "right" phase for sure.

[DaisyM23]

@CharlieDrag yeah, conservatives are technically centre right, uk in general is usually oriented at the centre but we haven’t been centre left in a while

[LeeannaDD]

He means people who don't belong to either party overwhelmingly are leaning republican for the midterm. The democrats will lose the senate majority and possibly the house too. Then Biden will be unable to pass any legislation. Quite literally making the same mistakes as Obama all over again.

[OlderAndWiser]

I think that this means that the extreme left is alienating the silent majority of Democrats who are too intimidated to speak out, but ultimately, the party will fracture. The same could happen on the right and the Democrat and Republican moderates who coalesce could form a superpower third party.

[Gespenster_division]

Yeah I do. The left wing is currently full of people who don't want to work for their money ir won't or wealthy or rich supporters who can only be classed as champagne socialists all of whom expect the middle classes to pay.
It's a classic story of a young idealistic college student who falls for left wing dogma taught to them in college but then in the real world they realise that they are the ones who have to foot the bill for all that socialist bull.

[MCheetah]

Yeah he's right, but he's about five years too late to the party. The middle (which I consider myself to be in) left the Left back in 2016 when we voted for Trump over Hilary "basket of deplorables, racists, and sexists" Clinton.

The left has only alienated more rational liberals and people in the center since then, which is why they had to rig an election to get Sleepy Joe in, a candidate even Democrats didn't want (they wall wanted Bernie). The left has almost no real support left, aside from a few brain-dead idiots who'll never change, but since they control the media, Hollywood, Silicon Valley and academia, and are in bed with Chinese communists, it doesn't matter much to them.

[Asker]

What do you have to say about the right? Do they have the same issue on their side or is it different you think?

[MCheetah]

The right; conservatives/Republicans, have changed for the better, but their policies are still not for everyone. They're mostly only for middle-class Christian white Americans (which is fine and all). Some will argue the right have become more like the left was 10 years ago, since they are now cool with gays and allowing people to live freely, which is something they weren't all about during the Dubya years. While the left have become amoral assholes who'll kill their own grandmother; only difference is, they think they're justified because "everyone but me is a bigot," while the right used to think they're justified because "everyone but me is a sinner and going to Hell."

In other words, it's like everyone flipped sides. The right are now liberals who want freedom and happiness for all, and the left are now morally bankrupt fascists who commit wrongdoings and evil in the name of "good." The political poles will flip again, but not for a while. At least another 15-20 years.

[InfobotLives]

The middle tends to be where elections are won and lost. It's a matter of how many of the people in the middle you can swing to the left or right. Trump losing the election would suggest that the right hasn't done enough to retain the middle either. It's a delicate balance. Extreme positions will never hold the middle. Moderate people don't lean towards extreme positions unless they are pushed too far. Perhaps the point being made by Musk is that the left are pushing too far.

Then again, Elon Musk is an ass clown, albeit an eccentric genius ass clown.

[exitseven]

Anybody with a job that is not dependent on the government will not vote democrat. Cops , firefighters, union guys have all gone over to the other side. They are sick of seeing tax dollars wasted on useless social programs and are sick of seeing politicians support defunding the police.

[The_Maphio]

Elon Musk is hardly ever wrong, if you go through his past, especially on Twitter. A solitary spark of sanity in an otherwise braindead social network.
It doesn't take a political genius to see that the extremism the left is getting sadly famous for is something that not even the leftists of old will ever support.
It's mental issues wherever you turn, with no actual policy or morals behind any of it.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Absolutely. They have alienated every person they can and have made it so that its a crime to ever question their ever changing views which is going to alienate moderates along with the right which they have actively alienated. They are eating their own.

[BeMuse]

The Democrats jumped off a bridge into communist totalitarianism starting with Obama. They lost moderate independents a long time ago, thus why they rig elections… I’m a moderate independent classical liberal and Democrats are so far gone they think I’m extreme right wing. They’re dumb shit.

[BeMuse]

Anyone who stands with Democrats is an extremist. There is nothing blurry about it. It is crystal clear.

[BeMuse]

*shits

[Avicenna]

Mental illness is strongest among the far left and they were unleashed for political reasons by leftist elites for political and financial purposes. That extremism and the bad policies forced on everyone by totalitarian leftist elites has turned a lot of people in the middle off.

[MannMitAntworten]

Unfortunately the silent majority are the reason we have a vocal right and vocal left that seem to be more vocal and carry more weight than even... because the silent majority refuses to admonish either extreme and insist both sides go fuck themselves so the “majority” can return to some semblance of peace and normalcy.

[Wisenhot]

I’m in the middle. The left has lost me by a long shot.


It means the left is too extreme and not rational. They do everything they claim others do and are constantly attacking lying and trying to manipulate the truth. They are not honest but instead they are power hungry and will take down whom ever and how ever many people they need to to win. Dishonest liars

[Kaneki05]

Left isn't supposed to be left not the middle. The right is supposed to be right. Also the ironic thing is his partner is grimes... and she's very left. And look at the name they called there baby. Idiots i swear.

[Kaneki05]

Is supposed*

[Snakeyes7]

I think he's saying that the left has gotten so insane that centrists don't want to be around them and the right is the only one who wants to have a conversation with them.

[RolandCuthbert]

What the fuck? Trump supporters don't even believe in democracy. How is that for not only losing the middle? But the left, the right, the top and the bottom?

[Samm_e]

As someone in the middle. Both are losing the middle.

[Asker]

Sure, but why do you think Mr. Musk specifically stated the left?
Is there something that you've personally observed and/or experienced with the left that you haven't with the right in regards to this question?

[MDollarBill]

I think his experience with the SNL crew opened his eyes.

[IHateIsrael]

We don't want the middle anyway.

[youreanidiot2]

Trump lost the last election by 7 million votes, and republicons lost the 2018 mid terms by the largest vote total in history. You don't do that without the middle. Musk has no idea wtf he's talking about.

[888theGreat]

The left is a minority ruling the country by cheating elections and using liberal judges to get favorable decisions. That is what all Socialist parties do. They know they can't rule for what they really stand for.

[jshm2]

Elon Musk is losing his sanity and never had a middle.

You can ignore any sage advice that idiot gives.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Obviously.
But does that mean they’re losing overall?
The problem remains that they’re gaining the institutions and corporations. That’s perhaps more important.

[BUNroaster]

Like the middle who listen to both sides of the argument vs just one side. They're leaning right. Which is interesting. Think I'm noticing this too. But too late? Maybe. I still like the middle myself but usually end up voting right.