Or is that looked down on too? so if someone tell me they hate gays i can't think that person is a piece of shit?
This is pretty much the definition of judging a person based on the "content of their character" as this one famous dude said once...
your thoughts?
Yes it's ok to be prejudiced against prejudiced people
No its not ok to be prejudiced even against prejudiced people
It depends (please explain)
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+1 y
pretty mixed results lol
anyways im not saying we should hurt or commit any crimes against them or something. just if they utter some obviously racist or bigoted etc shit then yeah im gonna think very very poorly of them.
Are we allowed to be prejudiced against people who are prejudiced?
It depends on where there opinion is coming from. Lack of education/innocents or hate. All you can do either way is try to educate. People are usually pretty firm in their beliefs from their own past experiences and influence. It’s not impossible for someone to change their views. I have a couple good examples of people I’ve witnessed change. Young people who came to socal from heavily racist parts of the country. I was proud of them in the end. No easy thing to come from hate to acceptance. We who knew them just treated them like anyone else. Teased them like anyone else. Being immersed in with really great people/mixed bag of races for a couple years eventually brought them around.
this is a very very important point you have raised, some people are capable of changing their views... and I've witnessed these changes as well, because I've tried them before, so yes, it happens... and it only or usually happens when you reach and you try with understanding...
responding to prejudice with even more prejudice gets you nowhere but to worse... and if we really want true change and for things to be better, then we must be ready to reach... and not to be quick to just burn bridges
@Still-alive not in your experience you say... yet another reason to NOT copy the wrongs of others, and to try to justify doing wrong onto others
we all have different experiences therefore different views so... to make things better we should try to understand rather than just got the lazy way and just fight wrong with even more wrong
@NathanDavis some people are so dead set on their ways no amount of reasoning or empathy will get to them. especially once they reach qanon conspiracy theory status. their whole conception of reality is almost so foreign and alien that there's nothing you realistically can do.
@Still-alive and how we would be different to them... when we refuse to be better and insist on doing wrong ourselves and find ways to justify our wrongdoing?
@NathanDavis see the thing is you get mad at people like me when its them who you should be mad at. like im the one who's doing the wrong then when they do it and people like me call them out for it i get jerks telling me im the asshole. I don't like this approach at all.
reasoning with people like the qanoners has proven time and again to not work. they only believe in one thing: POWER at all costs. and they will use every trick of the trade to achieve it. laying down and taking their bullshit is NOT the way to fight against it in my opinion. its calling bullshit when you see it. call out the racism, the bigotry and all that and humiliate them with their dumb logic.
@Still-alive what you said is just a lie... I don't get mad at "people like you"
first of all, I am not mad at you, and I am not mad about anything... and I surely am not involving any group of people either
this is just an exchange of points of view, speaking our minds is not being mad... maybe you feel mad about something yourself? that would be for you to point out if this is the case, but there should be no reasons to
being mad at others makes you lose focus and control, so that is probably the last thing I would do at many if not most situations
besides that... what are you are arguing here is a different thing, I do understand that reasoning with idiots can be quite futile sometimes, but you're talking here about the most extremist idiots, and you're also talking about calling them out... calling them out is also a different thing, that is something I do here often in the site, but that's not the premise of your question either
Like Chris pointed out... having zero respect for extremist idiots is a reasonable thing, and I agree with it completely but... to get mad, to hate and to lose control the point in why you feel justified and with the right to do wrong yourself and do wrong to others because you feel justified is just wrong... wrong is always wrong no matter who does it or why
The premise of your question is this " Are we allowed to do wrong against people who are doing wrong" the simple answer to that is, just no...
I think you've seen me around and how I call out some idiots around here and have done it plenty of times, sometimes we both are doing it at the same threads, lol
@NathanDavis@Still-alive I agree with both of you… in that both ways will work with people.. it just depends on the people. Some people learned to hate from others peoples opinions, and never experienced personally what they hate to begin with (which is the case I shared) others are so toxic.. only standing up to that with force will help keep it from spreading. We are but mere humans. All different. All messed up in different ways. We just have to try what works, and if it doesn’t work, try something else. One thing is for certain. Ignoring an ignorant persons behavior doesn’t do anything positive.
Oh… Do two wrongs make a right now? Lol if somebody is going to be prejudiced against you… Then simply disassociate from that person? Especially given the fact that they were prejudiced toward you, how did that feel? And if it didn’t feel good why would you inflict those feelings on someone else? Even if that “someone else“ is the person who is prejudiced against you, it’s still doesn’t make it right. Prejudice and racism are wrong, period!
I can pretty much let it go and walk away when its just me, but when i see it happening against someone else i just can't let it go especially if it’s against someone who is traditionally more marginalized than me as a white dude. I would only back down if that person i was helping told me to do so.
I am also a fan of public ridicule of especially people in positions of power and they are virulent racists or whatever. This type of thinking and the people who espouse them should be shunned in our society. We can never let them go unchallenged.
another simple, yet very fair point and on point... both prejudice and racism are just wrong, it doesn't matter who does this, is just wrong and it should never be justified as "right thing to do because..."
Well I wouldn’t call myself a “fan” of public humiliation or ridicule. It can be very cringe inducing. But I definitely seed your point that when any marginalized person is being publicly humiliated, especially for an immutable characteristic! But you really have to be careful sweetie, I fully understand that it is coming from a good and decent place, coming to “the rescue” of a marginalized person, especially when you are (as you say) “a white dude”, it can sometimes come across as even more demeaning, like the person is incapable of defending themselves. I guess you are damned if you do, damned if you don’t! One great thing to do is simply ask that person “hey, are you okay? Do you need a hand, at all?” If they say they don’t need your help, but it REALLY looks like they are in trouble, just get out your phone and offer “well ill just wait here, and record in case the police are called, a video of this guy will help you if the police are told you are the aggressor!” I’m sure YOU don’t nee my help @Still-alive , but I’m writing this for the person who does need this. I know you are a great guy, and do strive to do the right thing. 🥰😘💋
i usually do ask especially on here. but sometimes i can totally tell the person being harassed needs help and yeah i do step in. i think maybe most of the time its met with gratitude. i can't really think of a time where the other person didn't like me stepping in. in any case yes it might seem demeaning to the other person but i only see it as having a common cause against a bully.
i just don't want someone disappointed because i didn't do something, or worse that i didn't care. i care a lot.
"Okay with" may have been a better way to put it. Technically you can do whatever you want. There's no allowed or not allowed lol. But there's nothing to so you should be okay with prejudiced people or that it's not Okay to be prejudiced against them.
Tho I'd argue doing that makes you what you claim to hate and the act of doing it makes you no better and thereby removes any standing you had to be in the position to judge.
It's different to say mirror behavior. That's more fair because you're being cool, until they're not. So you're just matching the behavior. But if they act right you chill out.
If you're just prejudiced against people you perceive as prejudiced or perhaps they've been that way in the past so you decide they deserve it in return now based on their past... you're kinda just the asshole now.
Some people perceive normal behavior as prejudice when it's not. Or because they think someone is prejudice, anything the person says or does sounds worse because of how they feel about the person.
Like an ex girlfriend taking everything you say the wrong way because of how she feels during the breakup. There's just a wall that it doesn't matter whatbir how you say it. She's in a mood so she sees you as the villain no matter what
a lot of people are prejudice against things that aren't hurting anyone... Say for example beastiality... a lot of people will argue it should be illegal because the dog can't consent and doesn't know what it's doing... But I know that's not true.. cos I've seen videos of a dog JUmping on a girl and hunping her without being forced.. the dog clearly wanted it since he initiated it.. I could even say the dog raped the woman... So that is clear consent... It doesn't need to verbally consent because if they did does that mean dogs rape other simply cos they can't speak and say "yes"? No... Consent can be physical signs rather than a verbal "yes"
So with that out the way... Why should it be illegal? Simply because people don't like it.. they think it's disgusting... That's the real reason they want it illegal... They are predjudice against dog fuckers because they find it gross... But being gross doesn't warrant it being illegal... Because I find gay sex disgusting... But that doesn't mean it should be illegal... If you find something disgusting jus ignore it if they're hurting no one... Yet the majority of society are predjudice against beastiality but not predjudice against gay sex... You can't have it both ways and there are inbalances... Not everyone is accepting of everything and there are always predjudice people
"Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."
Some people are prejudiced in a way that is socially acceptable (for instance, in my country, it is perfectly acceptable to be openly prejudiced against people who don't wish to take a Covid vaccine - I form of prejudice which I personally find reprehensible),
Some people are prejudiced in a way that is not socially acceptable (such as being racist or homophobic).
Some people are prejudiced against people who are prejudiced against things they themselves are not prejudiced against.
There is no one on earth who is not prejudiced in some way. The sooner we understand this about ourselves, the more we will be able to stand firm in our own inner truth (for instance, it sounds as though your inner truth is that you feel racist people are pieces of shit). Though paradoxically, by accepting that we ourselves are also prejudiced, we are less inclined to an egoically inflated sense of moral superiority.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. It is not our place to judge others, for we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Also, in the eyes of God, ALL sin is equal and ALL sin has ONLY ONE solution. Yes, it is appropriate to lay down punishment for other's actions, but that is up to the law of the land and those appointed to uphold the law to do. Giving punishment for crime is not the same as passing judgement. Giving a punishment and then moving on is righting the scales. Judging someone for their actions personally is acting like you are superior to them, like you have never done wrong. Prejudice is always wrong, even when used against those who prejudice others. The line of thinking in your question does nothing but keep the cycle of prejudice going, and prejudices lead to people thinking others are superior/inferior to others, which leads to ALL the world's problems today.
I have heard the saying before. I don't really know what to say about it. It sounds a bit nonsensical in that being prejudiced, racist, etc. has to do with prejudgements that have nothing to do with a person's personality or character.
Being prejudiced is a character issue. So in order to find out about a person's views you have to talk to them. That's the complete opposite of a bigot.
Bigots just have to be given a label. . . and that label tells them everything they need to know about that person. And every single thing they know is negative.
Just because someone does something wrong you aren't supposed to copy the bad behavior. State your feelings about their bad behavior. Wrong is wrong it does not become right because someone else did the bad thing first.
I don't think it's tight but by default you already are. In their eyes they believe their beliefs are true and we're judging them and with good reason, and saying their belief is wrong. So I'm an ideal world noone would just or discriminate each other but we don't lube in an ideal world. We just sit on the acceptable and decent side of the fence
It's certainly the easy path to take. The hard path can be more rewarding though. You can try to offer them a better way, a path out of hate. And sometimes it's just someone needing someone in their lives to change them. It's not always the case, don't get me wrong. But it doesn't hurt to try so long as the person is not certifiably crazy
I think the question should be what will that make you Is it OK to behave racist with racists Is it OK to murder a murderer Is it OK to steal from a thief
I think the answer to all these type of questions should be a question What will that make you?
prejudice is thinking badly of someone or acting against them for something like their skin color, or something else unrelated to their character. If someone is a piece of shit, it is not prejudicial to think that they are a piece of shit
No. As the old expressions goes : Don't wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig likes it.
If you cannot do something constructive to correct the person then move away and leave them to it. No point you joining them in their shit pile. This is one reason America is fucked to the extent it is. Everyone thinks they can clean the shit the last guy left, with their own brand of shit. You cannot help such people.
Being predjuiced against someone "IS" being predjuiced with someone.😤🎭🤬👉"👁️hate you!" "🧿 hate you back! "👁️hate you more!" "🥱 right back at ya, you old crone!" "😫 night 🥱 Mr. Lockhorn!" "😑 night, 😴Mrs.-💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤 💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤"
Yes, you're justified in thinking very poorly of those people. I also agree with @chrismaster69 about having zero respect for those people. I don't have respect for very racist and homophobic people either
People are free to be judgmental. Everyone is. What I've noticed is that the ones who blatantly say they aren't judgmental, tend to be the most judgmental. They're blind to their BS and don't realize when they're being the very thing they criticize... which is a form of judgment anyway, but they swear they aren't judgmental. I don't think they realize they contradict themselves.
No... the wrongs of others should not dictate my own actions, what's wrong is wrong... so I try not to justify myself and do wrong using the the wrong of others as an excuse
you are talking about two things here... for someone to express their stupid-ass opinion, that is one thing... while I do not agree with their opinions one bit, I am still not going to do wrong myself
now, you are saying something about people who want to do harm to me, or others... if these were the case then it would be very different, when people have actually tried to physically assault or verbally abuse others, I've done something about it... and lets just say that they have stopped their shitty ways or I made them stop
I dont hate you but i do think your thinking here is quite flawed and would only serve to enable hateful racist bigoted people in the world. But we can agree to disagree
well... just so you know, I've done my part to put bigoted people behind bars... I have actually done something that matters and made a difference in the real world out there
I've risked my life for the causes I do care and deem important
I believe we should despise ideas and actions rather than people. In other words, why hate something that has the ability to transform into something you could accept? And if they have no ability, why hate a victim?
"a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action."
Since life is filled with a certain amount of unfairness & suffering, not in our control, I believe that we're all victims of it. I agree with you that some people are way beyond convincing. But that just means they're more of a victim of the unfairness of life. It can probably be scientifically explained why they are the way they are. Similar to the unfairness of not know how naive you are until you acquire the knowledge & understanding of it. But even that has a limit. A limit not in our control.
I believe we should continue to condemn or punish immoral & illegal behavior. However, the inability to empathize is one of the main factors that contribute to the prejudiced behavior you claim to despise. It is your right. But it doesn't help the problem.
Just do a logical deep dive into the reasons why someone would be prejudice against anything. Lack of empathy is always linked. In your case, it's not immoral or illegal to have the views you do. So that's why I would never condemn anyone with your viewpoint. It's just that I believe it would be better to think about things in a more complex way than how we act.
For instance, let's say that bears could abstract to higher degrees as humans can. But they used their abilities to go around hunting & killing humans. Regardless of if they're prejudiced or not, I would protect myself by restraining, punishing, or even killing those that are dangerous. But then it would be best to acknowledge that they could easily be you if you had their body & were subjected to what they were. So even though we had to view them the way we did in order to survive, to recognize just how much they're a victim can allow us to focus on the real villain. And that would be the certain mindsets that brought about the behaviors.
Prejudice is a funky word. The dictionary definition is, “a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.” By that token, not liking someone based on their actions may not be prejudice as long as the actions are real and deduced.
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