We tell people not to be so trusting of the government, that when yo give them an inch they take a mile. The moment you start talking about specifics they'll call it conspiracy theory, but look again later and what do you see? Power creep. They keep pushing for more every time they says "lets just do this one thing" and then they amp it up until in you're in a police state.
At what point do we reject/revoke their authority?
They'll probably not do the next thing they say they definitely won't do... right?
This is lovely.
Beyond dictatorship.
@goaded no he told business's they should once the courts halted his OSHA mandate, before that it was by force. Stop making excuses for Brandon. Your Administration has lost horribly, Their eon't be another Dem in the WH for a long time after this fiasco.
@Snakeyes7 Again: telling companies what the right thing to do is, is not enforcing a government mandate against the wishes of a court. Fox, Disney, and many other companies already have stricter mandates, and the federal mandate allows for frequent testing instead of vaccination.
What's your opinion of how a business should manage covid, treat it as less important than the annual flu?
If everyone in the workplace is vaccinated, they're less likely to catch it and it's less likely to be dangerous. In fact, it would probably take the danger down to close to a normal flu year, which is what you were claiming about covid from the start, 750,000 American deaths ago.
You're lying when you say I'm pretending that vaccinated people can't pass it on, it's just far less likely because they're less sick and contagious for less time. You're pretending that because something isn't 100% effective, it's pointless. See also your lies about masks and lockdowns.
@goaded lol. Lockdowns were unequivocally worse than the virus. Once again, you're playing around and conflating two concepts. People can STILL refuse to get vaccinated. You will never get 100% compliance. Period. So get that stupid idea out of your pea brain. Even this moron of a pants-shitting president knows that. Fuck the CDC, WH, Congress, and now truckers are exempt. Over half the states are suing his fucktarded administration. You'll see other states follow Florida's lead and just reject OSHA outright.
You are not and have never been worried about health and preventing the spread of this virus. You're worried about control. And you won't win at that when you're dealing with free people. Morons like you may love daddy government leading your life, but that's for you to deal with.
Oh, more lies?
"Lockdowns were unequivocally worse than the virus."
Ridiculous.
"People can STILL refuse to get vaccinated." I know; I've stated the fact several times in this question that the fascist "mandate" you're all shitting yourselves over allows for people to be tested frequently instead of getting vaccinated.
Here's a concept for your neuron: 100% coverage is not necessary to create herd immunity, but 25% of "adults" refusing vaccinations means we can't get anywhere near. And a lot of them aren't getting vaccinated because of liars like you.
"You'll see other states follow Florida's lead and just reject OSHA outright."
Then they'll probably follow Florida's lead in killing off their citizens at high rates despite the availability of vaccines and 18 months of experience of dealing with the disease.
And another lie:
"You are not and have never been worried about health and preventing the spread of this virus."
@goaded you are not going to get herd immunity from these shots due to their leakiness. You like to bullshit that these shots aren't 100% so I'm saying reject them. They're not even close to 80% effective. They're barely 50% effective with a 6-month shelf life. You will get herd immunity when the majority of the population gets covid. Not from these shots. At best they're a therapeutic gene therapy. Somewhat helpful at keeping at-risk groups of dying. But absolutely more dangerous to younger populations (children, teens) than covid is.
You reject the immune system because it's not 100% effective. But it's better than these shots.
Listen, I know you Germans love doing medical experiments on unwilling participants. That's becoming quite apparent.
You mean all the vaccines do is reduce the death toll from catching it by 95%? Why would anyone bother with that?
"these shots aren't 100% so I'm saying reject them."
What is it with people who think than less than 100% effectiveness is worthless? ↗
"... absolutely more dangerous to younger populations (children, teens) than covid is."
No, they're not. Hundreds of US children have died from catching covid. None, as far as I know, have died from the vaccine.
"You reject the immune system because it's not 100% effective. But it's better than these shots."
Nope.
1. I don't reject the immune system, that's how vaccines work, after all. It's 20x more likely to keep you alive if you've been vaccinated than if you haven't. One person dying is better than 20 people dying, in every rational mind. It's also not a "therapeutic gene therapy" because you get it to build up your immune system *before* you get the virus, not after.
2. I told you a few days ago about research from Kentucky that shows that you're more than twice as likely (2.34 times) to get re-infected if you've just been exposed to the virus and not been vaccinated.
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm
And then, another lie and insult, because you're pathetic like that.
@goaded Hundreds have died from covid after millions of children have gotten it. Children have died from the shots, but you just ignore it when the evidence is presented to you. Adolescent boys are more likely to get myocarditis from the shots than die from covid. Myocarditis kills abut 50% of the teens who get it within 10 years.
The research from Kentucky is bullshit. Anything from the CDC is suspect. Let’s not forget their “study” of masks being effective was based on 2 hairdressers working on 100 clients and you sheep lap that up by gospel. So don’t begin to pretend you care about actual scientific studies.
I’ve said all along…if you’re at risk of dying from covid, then the shots are an effective treatment. That’s all they are. If you’re not at risk of dying from covid (under 40, relatively healthy) then they’re unnecessary. Period.
You get awful butthurt when I hit the truth.
If you ever hit the truth, it will be by accident. You've not presented any evidence that "Children have died from the shots", or your made-up 50%.
"Anything from the CDC is suspect." Not nearly as much as everything you say.
"CDC continues to recommend that everyone aged 12 years and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis."
www.cdc.gov/.../myocarditis.html
After a disasterous summer (and obvious lies from Florida). Germany's numbers were 2.5 times lower just a couple of weeks ago, by the way.
"The gap, according to the Times, accelerated at its fastest rate yet in October, coming out to 25 COVID deaths per 100,000 residents in counties where Trump won more than 60% of the vote, versus 7.8 deaths per 100k in counties where Biden did the same."
www.businessinsider.com/trump-biden-counties-covid-death-rate-3-times-higher-vaccines-2021-11
Yeah, if every American got the virus, there would be at least 3.3 million dead Americans. That's what 99% survival rate means! If they all got it within a short period of time, the deaths would be much higher, because the hospitals would be overwhelmed, which is why there were lockdowns. How do you not understand simple logic?
And where did you read that? The hospital ships weren't needed because of lockdowns, and at the time cases in NY were doubling every few days. A few days of delay might have overwhelmed the ships, as well.
You'd rather nobody had done anything, which would have led to huge numbers of deaths, not least because the hospitals would have been overwhelmed.
@goaded I don't remember. I read a lot. That doesn't mean I catalogue it so that when your idiotic replies come up I can challenge them.
Lol, they weren't overwhelmed because not many people get this virus. The world with all its countries and all its so-called evil people not following the lovely lockdowns has only seen about 1.5% of the world get covid annually.
They were not overwhelmed because of the lockdowns. It's obvious. Ships can't increase exponentially, the virus can.
You'd rather nobody had done anything, which would have led to huge numbers of deaths, not least because the hospitals would have been overwhelmed.
WTF are you talking about "annually"? There's been one year!
And I'll remind you, Yet again... covid cases are crashing right now in Florida and the rest of the Southeast with no lockdowns, no masks, and no vaccine mandates.
@goaded Does your pea brain understand that cases have collapsed in florida or not? They currently have the lowest infection rate in the country. And have had it for well over a week.
I don’t need a vaccine for a disease I’m immune to. just like I never needed the chicken pox vaccine after I had chicken pox.
Do you not understand that Florida lies like a rug? Seriously, look at their weekly reports that say there have been tens of covid deaths per day, but thousands per week.
ww11.doh.state.fl.us/.../
20,000 deaths since August is not nothing.
No, they're liars. Seriously. For months, they've claimed tens of deaths per day, but thousands of new deaths per week. Florida is manipulating its covid death numbers! ↗
@goaded Where did I say deaths? I said cases. Funny how the NYT reports their cases as fact. Ok, does South Carolina lie abut its cases? South Carolina’s cases have plummeted with no mandates. Have Texas’ cases collapsed? They have no mandates. Are all of them lying? Despite me getting all of these numbers from the NYT?
@goaded I want you to realize that your statement of “the virus spreads exponentially and if we hadn’t shut everything down the hospital system would have collapsed and millions in the US would have died” is utter bullshit because I have example after example of locations who do not have mandates, and do not have high vaccination rates and have lower case rates than other states that do have such mandates.
You know that cases have fallen, so you bring up bullshit about deaths to conflate the two. It’s ok, I know you know. You not admitting it doesn’t make it less obvious.
@goaded The constitution doesn't care what one sleazy old-timer thinks is "the right thing". Many dictators have cited "the right thing" to commit unspeakable horrors upon humanity.
At this point, I don't even think it matters whether it is constitutional or not, Biden telling people to do it anyway is a direct violation of checks and balances. He has abused his power as president and he has done this before and no one on his side called him out on it.
@Snakeyes7 The constitution doesn't say a damn thing about whether the president can recommend what companies should do, why are you intent on pretending that he's a dictator? It's ridiculous.
Deaths and cases are obviously related, Florida, Texas, South Carolina, and no doubt other Republican states have had half of both this year. You just want to keep talking so nobody notices that once the vaccines were available, deaths were far higher in 60% Trump counties than 60% Biden counties.
Why don't you ever your "example after example of locations who do not have mandates, and do not have high vaccination rates and have lower case rates than other states that do have such mandates"? I could do with a laugh. If they even exist, I expect they've got a really low population density.
@goaded You stated emphatically that covid would spread exponentially without mandates. I've shown several times that despite no mandates, cases crashed in Florida and elsewhere. And are rising in areas with mandates. This means that your assertion is wholly false. Now you're flinging feces at a wall like a chimp hoping some sticks. It's comical.
What's your claim? Numbers go down when you let tens of thousands of people die?
You haven't shown anything, let alone several times. Maybe there are people in Florida with enough brains to avoid places they're likely to catch the virus? 20,000 Floridians have died of covid in the last three months, and they've been lying all that time, claiming hundreds or tens of deaths in a week while the total increased by thousands each week, even in the same report.
The states with the highest numbers of deaths per capita are now Mississippi, Alabama, New Jersey (still, but half their deaths were before June 2020), Louisiana, Arizona, New York (still, ditto), Arkansas, Florida, Georgia and Massachusetts.
Florida is manipulating its covid death numbers! ↗
Your claim is what, exactly? Cases fluctuate? Letting 20,000 Floridians die in three months despite the availability of vaccines, non-medical interventions, and treatments unheard of even a year ago, is a success for anti-science governing?
I've seen you claim masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, and that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic. All wrong.
Now, you're reduced to "the number of new cases in Florida has dropped significantly from well over 20,000 a day, when their 6% of the population made up 12% of the new cases in the country".
@goaded I guess Bill Gates is wrong, too? Because you claim these shots are wonderful at stopping transmission.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlx8WTKAgVY&t=2s
You still haven't expressed what your point is, let alone answered my question: is Florida's 20,000 deaths in the last three months better or worse than New York's 4,000, in your mind?
You're obsessed with finding any imperfection in attempts to keep people alive, while ignoring the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are dying by not following the scientific advice.
@goaded The point is simple. You promote vaccine mandates on the false premise that they will help us achieve herd immunity and "eliminate" the virus. That is patently false information.
If you understand that these shots are 'death preventers", nothing else. I'd tend to agree. But then that destroys the need for mandates and absolutely obliterates the notion that for people who are not at risk of dying from covid (anyone healthy under 30) then mandates are absolute evil. The same principle applies to shot passports.
You've furthermore asserted that were it not for lockdowns, masks, and shot mandates that the virus grows exponentially unchecked. This is also patently false information as Florida shows.
When you want to be honest about things we can discuss them further. If you're going to continue to lie, then you're wasting your time.
Finally!
You're just putting words into my mouth, rather than arguing in good faith, not to mention making leaps of faith from one thing to another.
You seem to think that it's just as good for everyone to catch the virus as it is to get vaccinated first. You remember the last pandemic, swine flu in 2009? There were 3,433 deaths total in the US. More of your pefectly safe under-30s have died from covid so far.
You're completely ignoring the obvious fact that trying all these things saved hundreds of thousands of lives, if not millions, in the US alone. Florida proved that by not allowing places to require masks or vaccines and recently having high numbers of deaths compared to comparable states that did. Come back to me when New York has ten times the deaths of Florida, and I'll reconsider.
Herd immunity has rarely eliminated a virus (smallpox and polio are cases where it has, I think). What they do, is seriously reduce their spread and impact (for example, measles, mumps, rubella, HPV). You seem to think that that's nothing.
Why would anyone say that mandates are pointless if they "only" save lives? What twisted logic leads you to that conclusion? That's the whole point of everything we've been doing!
"If you understand that these shots are 'death preventers", nothing else."
But it's not "nothing else", if they also reduce transmission, even a little bit. Masks also reduce transmission. Why wouldn't anyone want to do everything possible to keep people from getting infected?
"You've furthermore asserted that were it not for lockdowns, masks, and shot mandates that the virus grows exponentially unchecked."
I don't think I have, and all pandemics come in waves. You say that it won't go away until everyone has come in contact with the virus (and you could be right), but isn't it better for everyone to have had the vaccine first, so fewer of them, you know, die?
@goaded You're right I did. Because your position is this "we must do anything and everything to prevent people from dying from covid-19". No matter what negative consequences society faces by the "anything and everything". No matter how stupid the advice sounds, and no matter how little it's effective we MUST DO THIS and anyone who questions it is a conspriacy-theorist whack job. That's an utter bullshit position to take.
You don't hold this belief system over any other disease or cause of death. AT ALL.
Almost. My position is that "we must do anything and everything REASONABLE to prevent people from dying UNNECESSARILY from covid-19". The "negative consequences" society faces by the "anything and everything" are far less than the 780,000 deaths there have already been in the US.
Your position is that it's better to do nothing (like in Florida, where they're banning sensible amelioration mechanisms based on nothing, and letting tens of thousands die unnecessarily) than to take reasonable steps to reduce harm. That's bullshit.
I've seen you claim masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, and that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic. All wrong.
No other current disease has been as deadly and transmissible as this for a century. Heart disease and cancer (the other two top causes of death over the last couple of years, and the top two for decades if not forever) do not increase exponentially. This has killed an order of magnitude more than any comparable disease in generations.
You know we don't. But you'd rather not discuss the fact that I've seen you claim masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, and that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic. All wrong.
Or that no other disease has been as deadly and transmissible as this for a century.
@goaded I've said several times that these shots appear to be reasonably decent at preventing deaths from Covid-19 in vulnerable populations and should be encouraged for them to take. Being transparent and honest about the risks/benefits. However, for those younger than 40 who don't have underlying conditions they lose a lot of benefit vs. the risks, and for those under 20, the risks are worse than the benefit. As such, they should never be mandated or required to access society. No more than Valtrex is mandated for people with genital herpes.
I'll offer again... if you can admit that statement is true then I'll consider you might have something reasonable to say.
Apart from the fact you're not adressing your months of lies, this is starting to look a bit like a conversation. Well done!
When did you say "several times that these shots appear to be reasonably decent at preventing deaths from Covid-19 in vulnerable populations and should be encouraged for them to take."?
Then you claim: "for those younger than 40 who don't have underlying conditions they lose a lot of benefit vs. the risks, and for those under 20, the risks are worse than the benefit."
What research shows that? If you can show that, then I'll consider you might have something reasonable to say.
You know this conversation is searchable, right? You didn't once say anything like "these shots appear to be reasonably decent at preventing deaths from Covid-19 in vulnerable populations and should be encouraged for them to take.", let alone several times. And you didn't show any research that backs up your claims that the CDC doesn't know what it's doing, so you clearly don't have anything reasonable to say.
Especially as I've seen you claim masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, and that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic. All wrong.
@goaded If you understand that these shots are 'death preventers", nothing else.
and
At best they're a therapeutic gene therapy. Somewhat helpful at keeping at-risk groups of dying.
That's twice that I was able to find. Maybe you should work on your search skills.
And masks don't do anything. Fauci said so in private emails. There are countless studies at them being ineffective at preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses. You just like them to show your compliance.
The first is not the same thing, and the second is completely incorrect, as I pointed out at the time. The vaccines work by training your immune system, they're useless once you've already caught the virus. Therapeutics are for when you're infected.
"And masks don't do anything. Fauci said so in private emails." Show me.
"Studies Show More COVID-19 Cases in Areas Without School Masking Policies"
www.cdc.gov/.../p0924-school-masking.html
You really can't keep a conversation in mind, can you.
You've claimed masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic, and that Fauci said masks don't work. All wrong.
"Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection."
Still, 18 months on, completely accurate. They prevent people from "spreading infection to people who are not infected".
Nobody sane agrees with you, and you're answering a question that wasn't asked, again.
You've claimed masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic, and that Fauci said masks don't work. All wrong.
Yay! You're back to outright lying again! He said: "Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection." Still true.
I've seen you claim masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, Fauci said masks don't work, and that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic. All false.
Ah, a moronic slogan to obscure the fact you're trying to distract from having been wrong about masks, vaccinations, lockdowns, infection fatality rates, Fauci and me.
Fauci said: "Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection." Still true, and you hate that.
@goaded Fauci said that masks are ineffective on 60 minutes. Then backtracked and said masks were critical. When confronted, he said that he said they were ineffective to protect the supply for healthcare workers.
For you to believe that masks are effective, which you do, you have to understand that Fauci lied when he got on 60 minutes and said they don’t do anything. I know you lefties have trouble with understanding definitions, but that is 100% a lie if you believe masks work.
Since you believe masks work, you also have to understand that in the interim time between the 60 minutes interview people got covid and died who wouldn’t have if people were wearing masks.
So Fauci lied, and people died.
Oh, then he lied about funding gain of function research which brought this disease to the world. Under oath.
@goaded I never said that Biden is a dictator. The reason I mentioned dictators is because they play word games very much like "for the good of everyone" to make people more accepting of their tyrannical acts. I also said that the very reason the SCOTUS is looking at it right now is because that are trying to determine if the vaccine mandate Biden wants is constitutional. The act of him telling businesses to do it anyway tells me that he doesn't think that it will pass and doesn't care if it does anyway. That is a defiance of the courts and checks and balances. This isn't difficult to figure out.
@Snakeyes7 Firstly, there's nothing tyrannical about telling people they should get vaccinated *or regularly tested* during a pandemic. Secondly, ensuring your employees are as protected as they can be is always the right thing to do.
He said they didn't provide perfect protection and that people should think of healthcare workers. He said it March 8th 2020, before it was known that symptomless people could pass it on, and when there were 541 cases in the entire country. The chances of you meeting someone infected at the time was literally almost a million to one. Unless you're a health care worker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLNBw7XCM4Q
Oh, and surprise, that clip left out some context:
"FAUCI: The masks are important for someone who's infected to prevent them from infecting someone else. Now, when you see people and look at the films in China and South Korea, whatever, and everybody's wearing a mask. Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks."
@goaded @goaded Fauci said that masks are ineffective on 60 minutes. Then backtracked and said masks were critical. When confronted, he said that he said they were ineffective to protect the supply for healthcare workers.
For you to believe that masks are effective, which you do, you have to understand that Fauci lied when he got on 60 minutes and said they don’t do anything. I know you lefties have trouble with understanding definitions, but that is 100% a lie if you believe masks work.
Since you believe masks work, you also have to understand that in the interim time between the 60 minutes interview people got covid and died who wouldn’t have if people were wearing masks.
I won't accept an untruth. He didn't lie, he said that masks protect other people from you, not the other way around. When there were five hundred infected people in the whole country, there was next to no chance you were infected, so wearing a mask wouldn't protect anyone. You and the person who posted that video intentionally left that important context out; that's lying.
@goaded you might be the stupidest person on this site. Let’s try this one more time and see if you get it.
You believe that fauci was telling the truth when he said masks protect others.
Fauci got on tv and said masks aren’t needed.
He also then said masks are needed.
When asked about this change, he said he needed to protect supply for healthcare workers.
That means, if you believe that masks work - which is a hill you’re willing to die on - he lied when he said they didn’t work and were unnecessary.
People died as a result of his shitty advice.
He has blood on his hands.
@goaded He didn't tell people to get vaccinated he told businesses to mandate them even though it wasn't approved by SCOTUS yet. And yes, I know he was merciful enough to allow a test every week for those who are ineligible but God help your career if you forget to do it one week.
Its not up to Biden to determine if this really is "for the good of everyone" that's up to SCOTUS, that's their job. As I said before, it doesn't matter what kind of verdict SCOTUS comes up with. Biden telling them to do it anyway is a violation of the constitution anyway as it says that the government must abide by the system of checks and balances which is basic 7th grade stuff. He is straight up telling us that the law doesn't apply to him to our faces.
@Snakeyes7 Biden's not in violation of the constitution, he's allowed to tell people what he thinks they should do, even if he can't punish them if they don't.
He's both told people tey *should* get vaccinated, and told businesses that they *should* require them for their employees.
It's not up to SCOTUS to decide what's best for people, it's their job to decide whether the president (or more specifically the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which mandates things like hard hats on building sites) has the power to require people do what he says.
In the case of federal jobs, Biden absolutely does, in the case of other businesses, it's apparently questionable, despite a couple of plane crashes a day worth of dead Americans.
en.wikipedia.org/.../Occupational_Safety_and_Health_Administration
You really do talk a lot, just to avoid admitting you've been wrong about every aspect of this pandemic. Masks, vaccines, lockdowns, treatments, the lot.
Fauci once, in early March 2020, when there were a few hundred cases in the entire country explicitly explained that people shouldn't be wearing masks because: they don't protect you from others (much), the chance of any individual having it was about one in a million, and the medical community had a much more pressing need for PPE.
The advice changed as they had more information and there were more supplies.
You're too thick to see that if someone tells you you don't need an umbrella, that doesn't mean you'll never need one, even if it's raining.
The fact that you're still banging on about one misrepresented interview from nearly two years ago is pathetic.
@goaded These vaccine mandates are in violation of HIPAA and the Americans with Disabilities Act. These businesses have no right to do this in the first place. The fact that Biden is trying to keep it going as long as he could is leading me to think that he knows that this bill has a slim to none chance of passing SCOTUS.
There's a big difference between *should* and *must*. Threatening the livelihoods of people doesn't sound like a *should* to me.
You're right, it's not up to scotus to to decide what it best for the people. Their job is to interpret the constitution to ensure that laws being passed are in compliance with it. It's also not the president's nor is it Congress' job to determine what is best for the people either. That only leaves it up to the individual to determine what is best for themselves.
I have no idea what you mean by the last one.
@Snakeyes7 They're not in violation of HIPAA, nobody has to reveal their vaccination status, they just have to take a test if they don't. Couldn't Biden be keeping it going because mandates have been shown to increase uptake of vaccines, and save lives?
"There's a big difference between *should* and *must*."
That's my point. He's saying should, while the courts sort out if they're allowed to say must (which still isn't forcing anyone to get injected).
"I have no idea what you mean by the last one."
There are still 1,000 American deaths a day at the moment; a couple of good-sized plane loads of people. The previous pandemic, Swine Flu, killed 12,000 Americans total.
Did he give them the option of fetching him coffee, instead?
You really are an asshole who's been wrong about everything. I've seen you claim masks don't do anything, vaccinations are pointless, the infection fatality rate is lower than the proportion of the population that have already died, and that nobody should have done anything about the pandemic. All wrong.
When was that, then?
Here's where you were swearing blind that the WHO agreed with you that the absolute maximum number of Americans who could possibly die from covid was under 500,000.
What do you think the punishment for violating mask and social distancing mandates? ↗
@goaded right here
twitter.com/.../1458936925423820805?s=20
Remember when you were scared to go eat in a restaurant?
You keep showing me people who agree with me, telling the truth. Do you think that's an answer to something I asked? Yes, people who have been vaccinated can still catch the virus, but they don't get sick or die in nearly such high numbers. That might have something to do with the deaths per capita going up 30% in the US, and 15% in the EU over the last six months.
I asked if you think Florida's 20,000 deaths in the last three months was better or worse than New York's 4,000. I asked if you remembered claiming that the IFR was 0.15% (which would be 495,000 American deaths, if everybody was infected). I pointed out that Fauci was consistent throughout about masks; they protect other people from you if you're infected, and when only 500 people were infected, medical staff needed them far more urgently that the general population.
No, again, that's just you being wrong. It stops you from getting sick or dying from the virus, and reduces the time that you're contagious. Not as much as with the original variants, unfortunately, but still very much worthwhile. And you're more than twice as likely to get re-infected if you've not been vaccinated since you got it.
@goaded I know, that was another lie the CDC Spread that it made you immune from catching the virus again, and now we know the effectiveness drops after 6 months. So guess what. yeah, you guys have been lying about my natural immunity for months. It’s almost like you’re jealous. There’s been so many studies showing that naturally immune folks spread the virus….. oh wait…
Yeah, great, if you get it AND RECOVER, you're golden. But at least ten times as many died before they could get their "natural immunity", that's what's so stupid about your position. Not to mention that you think that 0.15% is an acceptable number.
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/310963
"With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.
By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave."
0.0578% of vaccinated Israelis.
@goaded Of course, if you require that people give you money every year under a threat of imprisonment, you're going to get more money handed to you than otherwise. The problem is that vaccines usually aren't mandated for jobs or to enter certain buildings so why is there any question that people are getting pissed off and suspicious? And again, I understand the testing but every week is insane. If someone forgets to do it one week because something came up, they're done. It's punishment for refusal essentially. How does Biden think this will affect our already eroding economy?
I might have been in 6th grade when it happened but I don't remember any government involvement to this extreme for swine flu. If memory serves, the lack of restrictions this insane was what made us go back to normal sooner. Right now, the government seems to want to keep everyone afraid.
@Snakeyes7 Nobody serious is saying there will need to be boosters forever, it'll probably end up like the flu, with just vulnerable people getting vaccinated every year. And I very much doubt that anyone's going to forget to take a test; they cost under $2 (retail) and take a minute to take, with the result in 15 minutes. Certainly, nobody's going to be fined or fired for taking theirs a couple of hours late.
It all comes down to your fears: that you're being taken advantage of by the pharmaceutical companies (you are, but sensible Democrats, the majority, need at least some sensible Republicans to vote price negotiation into law), that the government is going to send jackbooted thugs to forcibly inject you (testing or quitting are options), and that the government is lying to you about how deadly the pandemic is (2009's Swine Flu pandemic killed 12,000 Americans in total; that many have died in the last couple of weeks, and there have been long periods when it took less than a week, sometimes only four days). Perhaps you don't remember all the vaccinations you probably had, just to go to school in the first place?
Do you think that vaccinations for children might be dangerous and have unexpected side-effects? The only reason they're so necessary is because ridiculously large numbers of adults in the US have been convinced by liars not get a jab that's practically painless, and that literally billions of people have had without any serious side-effects (especially compared to the virus itself).
@goaded Like I am going to trust the same institution to stop the "temporary" policies that went from "15 days to slow the spread" to "the original vaccines aren't good enough,
you need a booster to get groceries or to keep your job off your ass now ". Not to mention that the Patriot Act is still here even though any layman knows its unconstitutional AND that income tax has been around for over a century now and that was meant to be temporary too. Why should I believe them now? Governments all throughout history have a bad reputation with being given and inch and then taking a mile and our government has done it many many times.
If Biden's plan takes hold, doesn't the company get charged $700k per violation? It's sounds like a "I'm not forcing you, I'm just making it harder for you to refuse" kind of thing. I'd imagine this is used as a workaround for the ADA.
Schools at least have exemptions as far as I know, but even if they don't, there are still private schools and homeschooling so I think the usual vaccine mandates for schools are fine. Jobs are different because a lot of places also have 100+ employees and your options are a lot more limited.
I don't think vaccines for children are dangerous, I'm not against vaccines in general, but I'm not sure what you expect when the government mandates a medical procedure to a population that generally already has such a low opinion on them and the media.
Also, you didn't answer my question as to why we never had any mandates for swine flu and yet somehow we got over it.
@Snakeyes7 "Also, you didn't answer my question as to why we never had any mandates for swine flu and yet somehow we got over it."
I thought I did: "2009's Swine Flu pandemic killed 12,000 Americans in total...". It was slightly more dangerous, but far, far less infectious: 12,000 in 12 months, not 12,000 in 12 days (or six, or four).
The population has a low opinion of the government largely because of all the misinformation out there, predominantly coming from a few right-wing sources, and amplified by social media. Republican leaders are either actively undermining the foundations of democracy, or staying silent while it happens. Just look at all the people claiming massive election fraud a year later.
Again, billions of people have been injected worldwide (over 4 billion have had at least one jab, 3.2 billion are fully vaccinated), it's obviously not a risky proposition.
The opinion of one judge. So what? What mandates have achieved is that 79 percent of municipal workers in cities surveyed are fully vaccinated against Covid, well above the country’s overall rate of 58 percent. The worst of the 20 cities surveyed has 75% vaccination.
www.nbcnews.com/.../covid-vaccination-mandates-city-workers-caused-backlash-data-show-re-w-rcna4895
Oh, a school textbook, and you're back to the old "if it only saves half a million American lives, and not everybody, why should I bother?" approach to life. So, I have to assume you don't see any difference between Florida's 20,000 and New York's 4,000 deaths over the last few months. (And, by the way, any one or two of those effects defines an "effective vaccine", and the Covid vaccines cover 4 of the 6, idiot.)
Still not addressing the NY 4,000, FL 20,000 deaths question, I see. And repeating another bullshit assertion, since the vaccines (not even the ones that do use mRNA) are not treatments, because they have to be administered to people without the virus to stimulate their immune system, same as every vaccine since Jenner in the 19th century.
I have to admit to having made a mistake, vaccines have been around since the 18th century (1798). You probably won't recognise that sort of behaviour, because you're an idiot. What does the second box down in your image say?
https://media.communities.win/post/RDrfMEl6.jpeg
The final two are also applicable to the covid vaccines. Is 4,000 deaths better than 20,000 deaths, in the same population size, or not?
@goaded He even admits thee shots are failing rapidly.
news.yahoo.com/...ust-issued-urgent-201846228.html
Sucker.
New York 4,000 deaths in the last 3 months, Florida 20,000 (while lying through their teeth about it). Which is worse? NY: Jul 1: 54,032, Nov 1 57,059, FL: Jul 1 38,349, Nov 1 60,674.
Florida is manipulating its covid death numbers! ↗
Which is worse: New York, with 4,000 deaths in the last few months, or Florida with 20,000? NY: Jul 1: 54,032, Nov 1 57,059, FL: Jul 1 38,349, Nov 1 60,674.
You know what makes the numbers of cases less important? When people are vaccinated and DON'T DIE.
Germany's had 1,163 deaths per million. America's at 2,282.
If you'd had the same death rate, there would be over 380,000 fewer dead Americans.
@goaded I think what makes you the maddest is that you’ve lost out on 2 years of your life while I’ve been happily enjoying mine. They make dumber after dumber rules and you just follow along. Deep down you know they’re stupid but you’re too scared to live normally and you resent everyone who has lived normally. You need psychological help.
You'll never answer the simple question, because you know that 20,000 deaths in Florida is objectively far worse than 4,000 deaths in (an entirely open, if you're vaccinated) New York, and moronic people like you have caused half the deaths in the US from the pandemic. But heaven forbid you should be slightly inconvenienced or expected to think of the people around you.
If the US had the same death rate as Germany, there would be over 380,000 fewer dead Americans. Tell me again how much better the US is.
Mostly following sensible rules means that this country has had less than half the deaths per capita of the US, and of course the reason for the rising numbers in Germany as well as the US are due to right-wing areas of the country.
Compare the infection rate map here to the election results, and guess where the idiots live.
https://corona.rki.de/
upload.wikimedia.org/.../...stagswahl_2021.svg.png
Then, there's this:
It's even more pronounced at 70%: "counties where Trump received at least 70% of the vote in the 2020 presidential election, COVID-19 had killed about 47 out of every 100,000 people since the end of June. But in counties where Trump won less than 32% of the vote, the number was a fraction of that — about 10 out of 100,000."
www.msn.com/.../ar-AAOSLJU
You really will say any little piece of crap, just to avoid facts being seen, won't you.
"counties where Trump received at least 70% of the vote in the 2020 presidential election, COVID-19 had killed about 47 out of every 100,000 people since the end of June. But in counties where Trump won less than 32% of the vote, the number was a fraction of that — about 10 out of 100,000."
Trump and people like you have let hundreds of thousands of Americans die, because you just don't give a damn. You've been licking his boots and amplifying his lies all along. Fucking toady.
"Documents released Friday reveal how in early 2020 the Trump administration downplayed the deadly danger posed by the nascent Covid-19 pandemic, silencing and sidelining top health officials who tried to warn the public and destroying evidence of political interference while issuing rosy declarations that the outbreak was "totally under control" and would soon be over."
www.commondreams.org/.../documents-expose-staggering-pattern-political-interference-trumps-covid-19-response
Opinion
6Opinion
Weren't they evil, thinking that they were dealing with a rational opposition who would work with them to end the pandemic as soon as possible and save tens of thousands of American lives.
So you LIE?
No watch the video quit being a conformist sheep its literally 60 seconds. Are you adhd or something?
Funny how he doesn't address the lies he told about covid being zero risk of death to children and that the covid numbers were being inflated (rather than undercounted, which is actually the case). That's the sort of thing that leads to vaccine "hesitancy", a lack of herd immunity, and the need for more stringent rules (none of which require people to be vaccinated, by the way, the government rules allow for frequent testing instead).
"According to the latest data from the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) another 225,978 children were officially infected with COVID-19 and at least 20 died in the last week alone. Since July 1, a staggering 1.47 million children have been infected, 4,561 have been hospitalized and 145 have died."
www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/09/22/chil-s22.html
Guy you're crazy and full of excuses Biden failed you
How many children do you think is an acceptable number to maintain people's right not to get tested or vaccinated but still go to work? What do you think a "mandate" is, anyway? You act as if it's being held down at gunpoint and injected, rather than just an option that's preferable to having a test done a few times a week.
If the shot was saving lives wouldn't the doctors and nurses all want it? Instead of ya know 70 thousand fucking people saying no to the vaccine? They work the ERS they know the vax is killing people. Turn off the TV.
@goaded yeah the hospital in NY were trying to uae the National guard to replace workers because so many denied the vaccine so no you have no idea what your talking about and many officers are not vaccinated
www.google.com/.../amp you would not call on NG if it was only 1%
"ALBANY, N. Y. (AP) — Gov. Kathy Hochul said Saturday she is prepared to call in medically trained National Guard members, retirees and workers outside New York to address potential staffing shortages caused by an approaching vaccine mandate for health care workers."
"prepared to", and that was over a month ago. Did it happen, or not?
@goaded no because she was denied that request that is an abuse of her POWER as a GOV she can't fire people and then call on the NG to dress it right & cover down. So guess what she got a FAT no. And no they're dealing with mass shortages so that destroys your claim that they're tons of healthcare workers in NY. When at this moment due to the mandates they're NOT. Luckily the court has blocked them and they're clearly going to tell Biden know a lot of big business is suing Biden due to their loss of employees due to the mandates. You are such a hard-core democrat support you think the politcians can do no wrong. I bet you think Edward Snowden was lying huh about what je exposed?
www.brennancenter.org/.../how-stop-abusive-national-guard-deployments
She and many others were stopped.
You only read the first paragraph that shows you ignore truths infront of your face sheep.
SHEEEEEEP 🐑🐏🐑🐏
Yeah, they said they didn’t want to mandate it. But 30% of the country is threatening 70% of the citizens. So…suck it.
No actually we aren't threatening anybody. Did you forget when they said all they needed was 70% vaccinated? So it happened and now they wanna force the shot on the people who actually have a brain and it ain't happening. Doctors and Nurses are saying no because they been in the hospitals since 2020 and they know it is a hoax. You suck it you liberal moron.
Well... first few second exposes the fraud of that idiot trying to be governor.
Donald trump lied about the virus being deadly which led to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, and you're upset about lies about a vaccine mandate that can save lives? Lol. Repuglicans are so fucking retarded.
You morons are hilarious.
So a virus with a 99.9 survival rate is considered deadly? But Trump lied? It's crazy how far in excuses you'll go even after proof your saviour Biden lied to you.
Trump told 30,000 lies, including ones about covid that lead to tens of thousands of deaths, but you want to whine and cry over one fucking lie about a vaccine mandate that will save lives. If that doesn't prove you're a brainwashed cultist, I don't know what will.
Lmao. I guess it was Big Bird that pushed you towards loving these shots.
Dude you're crazy & you are a conformist and love being controlled by others but Trump was right about the border. BIDEN WAS WRONG. TRUMP had a plan about Afghanistan and Bidens WRONG. Trump was for the vaccines but he was never going to try and implore communist ways to enforce it. Biden did after he said he would not do such a thing. Now look at this circus. High gas prices, paying illegals over Americans, letting in tons of illegals Texas Border is fucked up, the job market is horrible because of the mandates essentials workers like Nurses, Dr's, Police, firefighters, and ems and Federal workers were forced to quit or be fired. But TRUMP WAS SO BAAAAAAD right? You crazy liberals never learn!!!
Two faced.
Fauci is a troll and Biden is an idiot.
Yes.
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