Are democrats right in America that blacks are inferior and must have Affirmative Action to compete with whites to be successful in America?

[Pterodon]

Yes democrats are right

No democrats are not right

[WhiteSteve]

Well…. that’s a hell of a spin on what Affirmative Action is. The spirit of it is to give underrepresented demographics more opportunities in areas like education and employment. It’s kind of overhyped because it doesn’t even necessarily mean there are hard quotas, it can be mere encouragement to give these opportunities. The old trope of looking at it like “Affirmative Action took away an opportunity from a white person” just simply isn’t universally true. It’s also not just an American thing, it exists elsewhere, so it’s not as simple as a Democrats vs Republicans thing. But I don’t think any of it is meant to suggest that anyone is any less capable of achievement, rather just an acknowledgment that not everyone’s path is the same or without unique hardships, so it’s just an effort to make sure people other than just straight white dudes get opportunities, which, hopefully, nobody decent would think was a bad thing.

[Pterodon]

Wanna bet it doesn’t take away from a more qualified? I’m a victim. Bottom line is discrimination right or wrong? Make your choice

[Pterodon]

If I was black that’s how I’d view it and demand it be abolished but not our blacks that want handouts

[WhiteSteve]

Ok, so, look…. I’m sorry if you’ve had a bad experience and you feel it’s because of Affirmative Action rules. I’m not saying that’s not valid. I could’ve phrased it better, “ Affirmative Action takes away an opportunity from a white person in most, if not all, cases” is what I’m contending is not universally true. It CAN have that negative byproduct, and maybe you were one of them. I just know that, as a hiring manager at several jobs, including a fairly large corporation, I was never once instructed to hire or not hire anyone based upon their race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, nothing. So I’m just saying it’s not a universal roadblock, or really even all that common of one, in my opinion. I’m sure there will be cases out there, most likely in government jobs where they’re most likely to be pressed about something like that. I don’t think private firms are really getting pinched for that kind of stuff.

[Pterodon]

Then why have it at all and why do democrats insist on keeping it?

[WhiteSteve]

Discrimination…. obviously wrong. But don’t you see that the idea of Affirmative Action exists BECAUSE of discrimination AGAINST these people it’s designed to help? It kind of feels like we’re deliberately flipping it if we make it about straight white men missing an opportunity rather than the good-faith intention of creating opportunities for literally every other possible demographic besides the one specific demographic of straight white men. To say straight white men haven’t traditionally gotten the lion’s share of their desired opportunities throughout history and really still today would be like saying there won’t be snow in Edmonton in February. Again, if you feel you were a victim of it, that’s unfortunate, I’d just say to keep in mind that (I’m just broadly assuming, I don’t know your specific story) you were likely collateral damage from something with ultimately good intentions. I mean, we talk all the time about how life isn’t fair…. but the tone we say it in is usually very different depending on whether it’s someone else’s problem or our own. So you can be mad about your own situation, but try to have empathy for others who don’t at least get all the benefits of the doubt the way guys like you (assuming again) and me do.

[Pterodon]

Are you for or against discrimination make your choice

[WhiteSteve]

Oh, actually, for the sake of accuracy…. I was once told to hire a specific race at one job…. but not for good reasons. I’ll spare the whole story because it’s irrelevant to this, but it was gross. Basically was told to hire Latino guys here illegally who will do crazy amounts of labor for next to nothing. That should offend both of us, possibly for different reasons, lmao, but that’s fucked in multiple ways.

[Pterodon]

No I don’t see how fighting discrimination with discrimination is effective. That’s liberal fucked up thinking. Make your choice. Are you for it or against it

[WhiteSteve]

Sorry, catching up to your individual responses…

So…it’s clearly not a perfect system. I think the thinking is that it’s easier for a straight white dude to pivot to another opportunity whereas it can just mean a dead end for someone else. I mean, we can end up homeless like anyone else, I’m not saying it’s a guarantee of anything, but I feel like in these contexts, if a straight white dude doesn’t make it, then anyone else almost DEFINITELY wouldn’t have made it. YES, there must be a better way than Affirmative Action, and there IS: universal human decency and the complete absence of prejudice for any reason. Are we going to bet on that happening any time soon? So what else do you do? Liberal/conservative, Democrat/republican…. these are silly tribal labels that I refuse to stick on myself. I feel how I feel about whatever I’m having a feeling about in that particular moment. I don’t have hard guiding principles, I flow with what feels the most right or wrong. Sometimes there are innocent casualties, but if it does enough good for others who need it, you can call it a win. Definitely not perfect. But neither are people, and that’s the real problem, and that’s what this is trying to remedy. If you lived in Kenya where you were a minority both in numbers and in social power, and found it hard getting a job as a white person, and there was a rule that helped you get work, would you be happy about it? Or would you be upset that you to a black Kenyan’s opportunity? The Kenyan can just go for a different job, maybe you’d continue to struggle based upon people’s internal, un-regulate-able thoughts and biases. It’s all relative, man.

As for Democrats pushing it…the same reason republicans push for shit that’s popular with their voters…. to get elected and re-elected. The politicians just dance to keep us monkeys distracted and ooh-ooh-eee-eee-ahh-ahh’ing.

[WhiteSteve]

Your choices don’t really fit the angle of my opinion. General discrimination, of course not. Good-faith ideas being misrepresented as bad-faith oppression…. I mean, how am I supposed to answer that? That’s not a case of general discrimination to me, the intent wasn’t to discriminate. There are lots of winners and by-default losers in all kinds of situations, and not always meritocratically-arrived-at. If I let someone break into busy traffic, that’s a well-intentioned move. That might inadvertently make the guy behind me be the first guy stuck at a red light and it makes him late for work and his boss gives him shit. I don’t really know what to tell you there.

[Pterodon]

It’s black/white. Only a liberal will keep talking like you. Make your choice. Which is it

[Pterodon]

Fuck intentions. I view them as enabling. I think I’ll supply my heroine addicted son with clean hypodermic needle’s so he won’t use a used one. That way he won’t get some disease. My intentions are good never mind I’m a piece of shit enabler literally putting the needle in his arm. Same with democrats and liberals. You claim it’s to help but all you’re doing is keeping them dependent on you

[WhiteSteve]

Lmao, it’s not black and white just because you say it is. You’re trying to ask a very broad yes-or-no question about something that on a broad level we can mostly agree on, but then trying to apply it to a very specific circumstance in a very pointed way.

“Do you hate humans?”

“No.”

“Hitler was a human! That means you don’t hate Hitler, which is to say you LOVE Hitler and you’re a Nazi!!!”

It’s late, man, I really can’t go in circles about this. Have a good night, best of luck to you✌️

[WhiteSteve]

Re: the most recent post…. I understand what you’re getting at. But you’re seemingly in a rage about it, man. Take a breath. There’s some validity in your points. The heroin analogy…I get it. Are we keeping someone safe or enabling their addiction? Probably both? But would you rather the kid get clean or just not get HIV? Getting clean is a challenge and doesn’t alway stick. A clean needle at least keeps them from contracting a deadly virus. You have to ask a tough question: is it more important to be “right” or to be “effective?”

[Pterodon]

It’s black/white. Make your choice

[Pterodon]

Discrimination is either right or wrong. Make your choice

[WhiteSteve]

I can’t really answer you in the context of this discussion because you haven’t yet convinced me that this is a black/white issue, you’ve only asserted that it is, but that doesn’t make it so. Are we going to blow another night on this?😂

[Pterodon]

You’re either for discrimination or against it. Affirmative Action is discrimination

[Pterodon]

Yeah you can answer you just don’t want to

[WhiteSteve]

You keep posting the same thing over and over, so I’ll do the same, in case you missed it the first time….

You’re trying to ask a very broad yes-or-no question about something that on a broad level we can mostly agree on, but then trying to apply it to a very specific circumstance in a very pointed way.

“Do you hate humans?”

“No.”

“Hitler was a human! That means you don’t hate Hitler, which is to say you LOVE Hitler and you’re a Nazi!!!”

I mean, this is literally the same as what you’re trying to do. I don’t even what understand what you personally stand to gain if I say “yes, broadly, discrimination, and you can go ahead misconstrue that for use in a totally different context, and infer that to mean Affirmative Action is bad.” Like what does that do for anyone? Affirmative Action isn’t even a law, it’s an idea. And it’s an old idea, at that, this feels like a 1995 conversation lmao. If you have a specific law from either the US government or a state government that you can cite and footnote, I’d be happy to peruse it and we could discuss the merits and faults of it. But I can’t engage in debate over a vague concept like Affirmative Action, I just can’t.

[WhiteSteve]

* if I say “yes, broadly, discrimination is wrong

[Pterodon]

It isn’t broad. It’s very simple. Is discrimination right or wrong. Why can’t you just answer a simple yes or no question you liberal piece of shit?

[Pterodon]

Affirmative Action isn’t vague you biden anus licker. It’s discrimination period. Now are you for or against discrimination? All I want out of your mouth is yes or no

[WhiteSteve]

I hope you find some happiness and can become less angry, man, sincerely🙏

[Pterodon]

You like all liberals refuse to answer a simple yes or no question

[SuccessfulHornDog]

They believe that they can buy their votes

[kyleelyn199723]

Democrats are not right. Blacks being inferior to certain job opportunities would mean none fill the position, when in reality there’s plenty of diversity in many places these days.

[Pterodon]

Thank you will you vote please

[Whatthefluff]

As a Democrat, I am not for affirmative action, at least in the way it is currently administered. Wish you had more poll options.

[Pterodon]

It’s black/white