What do you think will happen with the tension between Russia and Ukraine? Which side is right?

[RyanEC]

On one hand I see the Russian point of view. I understand Russians are concerned about Western/EU/NATO/US encroachment in their sphere of influence. There is concern that if Ukraine breaks away too much another former Soviet republic will turn away from Russia, and US/NATO bases may be built in Ukraine.
Besides everything else the culture of Ukraine is so similar to Russia in terms of culture that there shouldn’t be so much tension.

I also understand the Ukrainian perspective.
Ukraine has been a part of the Russian Empire and later the Soviet Union for centuries. In 1991 Ukraine was able to break away from Russia. They see that later joining the EU and NATO could give Ukraine true independence from Russia. Economic and military Independence.

Updates

+1 y

I’m glad to hear you are doing well Alice, I hope you can find the job you are looking for.

The Euro must be as inflated as the US dollar, or the French government is stupid.

[GreenLanternI0I]

Ukraine is so broken, it is so corrupt it would be better of with Russia, for obvious reasons (culture, religion, history, even language) not so obvious reasons, Russia has super great relationship with China and therefore Ukraine can benefit greatly from both of them and China be more than happy to give Ukraine everything that it would ever need (China's economy will grow in the process). United Nation is a failed endeavor, it can barely hold it's own chain of nations. Besides, Ukraine will never be trully part of European Union, as I said before Europeans always did and always will look down on Ukraine people and they will never let them to get fully assimilated into it's structure if you will.

[jshm2]

You understand wrong, then.

All of the former Soviet countries still have an allegiance to mother Russia. In fact most ARE dual national and have family links to Russia and do a lot of business with Russia.

In the case of Ukraine it's a bit different. Around seven years the EU and USA tried to install their puppet like they do in Middle Eastern countries, and failed. They destabilised the country ever since.

The funny thing is that the USA tries to accuse Russia of doing this instead.

[goaded]

"former Soviet countries still have an allegiance to mother Russia"
Do they really? All those countries who finally took their chance to break away from the USSR in the 1990's really loved being ruled by Russia and felt they owed the country something? Bullshit.

[alice55]

I don't think much would happen, it would surely just stay in tension for a few years but no war will come. Even if Russia is very strong there's no point in declaring a war (it's never a good idea to declare a war because you're seen as the attacker and then the world is against you) and Ukrainian would not declare a war either cause they're not strong enough to do so (even with people backing them, any countries who attacked Russia end up losing).
So most likely nothing will happen. Just some big tension for some months / years.

[RyanEC]

I agree, it would be stupid.

I have missed seeing you on here, it’s been a long time.

How are you doing?
How are things in France?

[alice55]

Yes, it's been long, I felt the need to come back ^-^

I'm doing good, except I don't have a job anymore (I used to work with children like year it was a cool job) and there's lots of problem in France. Everything is getting super expensive, like gas, basic food, electricity (we can barely heat the house) since it's becoming too expensive to do so.
But other than that everything is good.

And you? Everything ok? :)

[KostasKouvalis]

You're alive! Where on earth have you been? I've been out of work too, for almost a year now.
And yeah, it's basically the same situation in California.

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis I've been working for some months (with children) and after I've gone to my grandparents house.
Now I'm searching for a new job but it's hard (especially since I don't have much money and everything is getting expensive so driving around to search for a job is complicated) company where I live don't reposed when you send them email and such they respond only if you go in person asking for a job so it's quite complicated.

It suck, I heard about it a bit on tv they said the gas in America was extremely expensive (even more expensive than in France). And obviously our president don't do anything to solve the situation

[KostasKouvalis]

Me too. I probably applied to like 20 places. I thought it would be easier now that I have experience, but no. I got interviewed at a few hotels, but they didn't hire me. I don't know what they want from me.
Here it's opposite. They want everything online now. I think before internet was better because now there's too much competition. But sometimes they want you to follow up and fill out the same crap you have on your resume. Our hiring process is crap.

My old job actually called yesterday. I might go back even though I don't really want to, especially after some stuff that happened, but it's better than nothing.

Are you guys still on lockdown?

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis This stuff is so annoying I don't get what they want either, I even have been rejected from mcdo and grocery shopping store. Honestly I think the only ways to get a jobs is through connection (like every job I had was because I knew someone who was working there or had friends working there and they had gotten me a job but if not I can't find anything).

Ours is pretty bad too.

What happened?

No we're not luckily but we have to be vaccinated for everything now if not we can't do anything.

[RyanEC]

(I meant to reply but I accidentally updated the question.)

It’s nice to hear your doing well, I hope you find the kind of job you want. What did you do with children?

I hope things better in both our countries.

[KostasKouvalis]

OMG, me too. I applied for positions that you can do after high school. Someone told me that it's because they'll afraid they'll train you, then you'll end up leaving them for another company.
Pretty much. We were just having that conversation with someone else too.

My city said they're not gonna enforce any state mandates, but I went to the coastal areas for the weekend, and there's Democrats over there so the businesses kept harassing us about masks. I saw one lady refuse to enter a bathroom, because there were maskless people in there. That's just paranoia.

[KostasKouvalis]

Long story short, they kind of treated me unfairly and were trying to use me. They told me the day before not to come in to work because I have too many hours, but then they wanted me to work the holiday weekend and two weeks in June, so I told them to just give me the whole two months off, then bring me back in July, but they ended my season, and told me I won't get compensated for my unused vacation days, though they sent me a check last month. It was partially my dad's fault because he said I won't get unemployment if I come back. Unemployment is a nightmare to now. I had to do a video call, and send/show them sensitive documents.

Anyways, I left a very bad review of the park online. It was anonymous, but it's not that hard to figured out. Not to mention one of the rangers came to my shift and said someone complained that I was using profanity and making inappropriate comments, when literally every single person there uses profanity, including the rangers. That really pissed me off, but thankfully one of the other rangers had my back.
But then my dad ended up getting arrested in the park, and all my old co-workers probably know, so I don't know if I would feel comfortable.
But the funny part is, the ranger who was lecturing me for misbehaving is the one who requested to have me back. I think they don't have any willing applicants so they're desperate.

Aside from that, I visited Turkey, Alaska, Florida and Georgia since you were gone. And my dad's trucked got robbed in our own driveway.
I also had a mental breakdown because I turned 29.
Oh, and my grandma died from Covid.
So that's MY life.

[RyanEC]

Are either of you still there?

[alice55]

The French government is stupid. With the president we have it's not surprise though.
Thank you :)
I worked in a school cafeteria for small children (2 to 6 years old) and primary school and did the childcare / nursery (not sure how it's called) like I keep children busy when they're waiting for their parents.

I hope so too

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis They don't want to train anybody but then complain nobody work for them. It's stupid. Too after we have to pay for getting degree and such while also not being sure if anybody would hire us that's ridiculous, if we're jobless we can't go around paying multiple degree or doing free internship to get experience...

That's just ridiculous, they're really annoying with all their covid / mask stuff.

Wow, this company is really shitty.
When you work with people you have to stay perfectly polite, smiling and nice even if people are insulting you, it's annoying but if not they can fire you for it. Multiple time I had customer being rude to me when I worked and usually I just tell them I'm gonna call my coworker to deal with them cause they obviously don't want to be talking to me XD

They sound ridiculous XD
They sound exactly like the company I worked for as a maid, they said I didn't work great, didn't paid me but then they were always calling me or working for them cause they had nobody else...
One time I had enough and just told them to I would not work for them anymore cause they didn't paid me.

Wow lots of things happened since I was gone O-o
Where do you plan on going next?
That suck, hope everything is well now for him.
Why did you have a mental breakdown? What happened?
I'm sorry for your loss :(

[KostasKouvalis]

Pretty much.
I just checked on a job application and they told me I had to take an exam. The job application was only up for a week, and when I clicked the exam it said there aren't any available. So I don't know when I was supposed to take this exam. We're just magically supposed to know this stuff? Our hiring system is garbage. Yeah, I feel I got my degrees for nothing.
Didn't you say you got a secretary degree?
It is.
Me too, if I had one.
Really? Maybe in France it's different, because in other European countries they don't give a shit. Here thet have to be nice, unless it's a private business. It's not right that we should have to take shit, and I have a hard time controlling myself 😂
Pretty much, except I got paid for the days I work. But it's a state job, so what do you expect? I didn't want to go back, but I don't have anything else, and it's better than sitting at home not making money. And my mom wants me to constantly look for work, when I just want to relax and do my own stuff.

I don't know. Wherever there's no Covid restrictions.😂
He didn't really care to be honest. He only cared about his legal problems and back problems.

[KostasKouvalis]

It's okay. It was harder on my mom. We got Covid too, even though we are vaccinated.
I always get depressed around my birthday seeing how little I have achieved and how fast time has gone by. And I started crying that I'm gonna die some day, and my mom too. And I was yelling at God, why did he make people only for them to die? I wish I could be in my 20s forever. I just have a hard time grasping that one minute we're there, suddenly we're not. There HAS to be a part of us that lives on.
And even reading about how the universe will be gone someday, that's so crazy. What's gonna happened to us. I don't know, it's sad that the world will still be here and I won't.

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis I have a secretary degree yes but I need a higher one (there's the first level called BAC it's what I have but for all secretary job they ask for the higher level which is level 2 called BTS there's also the third level LISCENCE and the fourth level MASTER) our degree level is overly complicated for nothing.

Have you heard of the situation in Ukraine ? I'm kinda scared now especially since Putin threatened to attack any country who would go against him and can you believe what France is going to do? Going against Russia (Macron is fucking stupid as well as most French it seems they don't understand we're literally going to get bombarded...)
I think the best option would leave France to go to Russia or China or America (or another country I don't know) but staying in Europe sound more and more like bad news. I don't want to leave and neither know how this war will go but apparently Russia is going to invade Moldova next (and surely the Baltic countries as well as Poland). I truly hope France is going to use the White flag cause if not Russia will literally bombard us.

[KostasKouvalis]

Yeah, that sounds very complicated. I got my old job back. I didn't really want to, but it's better than sitting at home not making money.

I don't think he'll go that far. I figured he would just take the Russian areas and leave, now I'm not so sure. I don't think he wants to start a war with Europe. This is Biden's fault because he's too weak. Poland is also stupid. They blocked Russian TV stations and are siding with Ukraine. Only Hungary is smart. But I don't think he will take military action, or bring the war to France. I think you will be safe.

Moldova because of Transdniestria, he's mainly going after areas where Russians live. Like he did with Georgia and Crimea.

China, no way!
Come to the US and stay with me.
I wish I could be there right now to put my arms around you and let you know that everything will be okay. You sound so scared. Don't be. France will be okay. Poland and the Baltic states are in greater danger, but it would be stupid to take them because he would put himself at NATO's doorstep anyways. I don't completely trust what the media says. I just know he took advantage of Biden's weakness. This wouldn't happened under Trump, and Biden wants to start a war with him, so I don't know if the US is any safer. Biden is so stupid. He ended one war, just to start another. It's like our people can't live without war.

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis That's true.

I hope. Which make me afraid is more Macron respond to Putin if he try to go against him then I think Russia is not against attacking us (like maybe not all the country but like something similar to pearl harbor?) to say to Macron to stop trying to go against him.
I'm watching the news and Putin is saying he don't want to attack any Nato country so I guess you're right we're safe so long as we don't react or do anything (and I'm more afraid of France reaction to be honest our government is completely crazy). I'm waiting for Nato / France respond to Russia, they're normally going to give it in some minutes / hours.

Yes, surely. He go for the Pro Russia area (though he attacked whole Ukraine). He say he only attack the military area but some civil area have been touched too.

I thought of China cause they're on Russia side but yea the language is going to be super had XD
America make me slightly afraid though cause they're against Russia and I don't like Biden.
I'm super scared and stressed because of the conflit but I'm extremely anxious because of France / nato respond to Russia, they're continuing to threaten Russia (France just threaten to use nuclear weapon against Russia 4 hours ago). I'm afraid Russia will bombard us cause Macron is going to play some hero.

Biden is truly a shitty president and truly suck Trump isn't president anymore, it would have been much better if he was still president. I think America is not going to go to war (or maybe like they did in ww2 just going in the last years of war).

Honestly it seem that since I'm a child I hear about war every single years, there's always either war or terrorism (or shitty covid stuff).

[KostasKouvalis]

The worst he'll do in sanctions, unless he invades NATO countries. France usually only intervenes in Africa, and the U. S. usually only fights with weak countries. Russia is too powerful. I just wasn't expecting him to attack on so many fronts. Hopefuly it will end soon.

Ours too. Biden won't even talk to Putin.
Yeah, that's what surprised me. Yeah, it seemed he was mainly targetting military depots, but it's hard for there not to be casualities. Putin's demands are reasonable, and hopefully Zyelensky isn't stupid.

SO would Russian. But there are plenty of reasons not to go to those countries besides the language. They won't even take refugees.

Yeah, to be honest, this isn't the best time to come to America either.

Yeah, it seems like one war after another. And not just war. Maybe the world really IS coming to an end.

Damn, I'm so sorry. Is there anything I can do to relax you?

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis Yes, France and Nato are talking about taking sanction against Russia, they're going to say which sanction they take around 2 am in France.
I didn't though that he would attack Ukraine either, I was so shocked to hear about it. it's quite the first time since I'm born I hear about a war such threatening happening.
I hope so too.

I don't think we know all his demand to be honest.
Though we should just let him do his things cause getting involved is much too dangerous. I mean we didn't react when war was in Crimea, Georgia, Syria, etc... We only ou sanction. After they're talking about how in France we're gonna get a raise in price of gas, etc... but so long as Russia doesn't attack us we shouldn't complain about those little things.

I don't really know China to be honest, I think France try to keep a good relationship with them so they never talk badly about China.

Hope no, that would suck.

Honestly I'm just waiting for Putin respond to European sanction.
You actually relaxed a bit, assuring me that Putin won't attack France neither any Nato country is relaxing to hear.
Too I think I'm gonna go in my bed relaxing. I'm quite tired, I had more emotion in this last 4 hours than I did in a week XD

[KostasKouvalis]

Eh... Putin has their sanctions somewhere. Biden thinks he's scared of him. He gave a press conference earlier and couldn't even answer the questions.

Yeah, exactly.

Here too. They already have. When the EU imposed sanctions over Crimea, Poland didn't have any way to heat their house.

Everyone's afraid of China, except Trump and Italy a little. No one punished them for Covid.
They're saying China might try to move on Taiwan now.

I'm glad to hear that. :)
I'm sorry.

To be honest, I was very sad when you left. But every time you come back, I feel that strong connection again, and I am reminded why I liked you so much. :)

[RyanEC]

Alice sorry to hear how stressed you are about the situation.
It’s so stupid that this is happening, nothing this scary has happened in my life.

I blame NATO just as much as Russia, NATO just kept building bases around Russia so it’s understandable that they feel threatened.

I just hope our leaders are smart enough not to threaten with nukes.
If the government of Ukraine was smart they would surrender and lessen the bloodshed; then maybe negotiate to give up their eastern provinces in exchange for Russian withdrawal.

[RyanEC]

I sincerely hope France and Western Europe remain safe.

[Slartybartfast]

Thus is only a question if you listen to Putin's propaganda machine which is obviously working overtime to justify his invasion.

He needs to return Crimea to Ukraine, he already is occupying !

If he had the Ukraine he'd be looking at Poland right now.

[goaded]

The thing about NATO, its entire reason for being, is to protect member countries from invasion. That's it. If they don't threaten to invade, if they don't invade, outsiders have nothing to worry about.

Having countries join your alliance is worlds away from militarily invading your neighbours and claiming their land. If there was no threat, there would be no problem.

[Anonymous]

This isn't going to end well. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran and Afghanistan will all sign an agreement labeling NATO a threat to their countries. All will try and expand their territories saying they are being threatened. The minute Ukraine is attack China will invade Taiwan and then global conflict is inevitable.

[slatyb]

It's more than just economic independence. It's basic civil rights and the rule of law, both absent in Russia. If Russia makes the Ukraine a client state they will soon be gone.

[Levin]

War mongering and another means of keeping the masses afraid.

Leaders from both countries should get in a boxing ring and slog it out until death. Leave the people alone in peace.

[DCooper]

I think Putin will pretty much take whatever he wants. The question is how much Ukraine might make him pay for it. I don't see anyone else stepping in though.

[KostasKouvalis]

I don't like either of them to be honest, so I could care less if they wipe eachother out. But it looks like Biden just ended one war, only to throw himself into another one.
These people do not know how to live without war.

[Avicenna]

I don't think anything big will happen. Putin will pocket incremental gains in Ukraine, especially since NATO weakness is so blindingly obvious.

[OddBeMe]

The US telling other countries not to invade others seems hypocritical. But you’re not supposed to do that.

[anylolone]

The same thing that's happening.
No one is right, everyone is wrong.

[candyPineda]

I don’t really know that

[888theGreat]

both are. Obama/Biden caused this invasion

[ManHater]

I hope war. I want to shoot some Russian fucks.