Do you think that Putin plans to take over the whole of Ukraine?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

[NathanDavis]

my guess is this... and it's only a guess, if you all remember years and years ago... ever since the Orange Revolution and the Euromaidan times... Ukraine has been switching between governments that are pro-Western and pro-Putin, and it was actually after the ousting of Yanukovych (pro-Russia) that Putin went and took over Crimea

so I think the current situation is just a switch on that... he will probably seek to overthrown Zelenskyy and then instate another pro-Russian leader for Ukraine, as well as giving autonomy to the Donetsk and Luhansk regions

and maybe that will keep "everyone happy" for now... it's a compromise anyway... because it would be a way for Putin to have control over Ukraine without taking over Ukraine completely... tricky AF but what else is new

[goaded]

It won't be a democratic government, though, will it? Especially if the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are out of the equation, because they're more likely to vote in Russia's interests. (Not that they necessarily would; the referendum they were given to vote on was essentially to join Russia or be part of Russia.)

[NathanDavis]

@goaded that is right... it will be messed up but it will lessen the death, and it will ease all countries involved

just like the US did in Irak, and Afghanistan... are they working after 20 years plus of intervention? no they are not... but we all can look away and not mind it much, right?

[goaded]

It's a nice idea, but Putin's already announced that he wants to expand into NATO countries. While saying "having justice and truth on our side is what makes us truly strong", he lies about everything. Including not wanting to invade Ukraine. I can only hope he was lying about using nukes. I was around in the 1980's, when nuclear annihilation was a real possibility, and my parents were teenagers in WWII; this is even worse. There's a madman with his finger on the nuclear button.

www.news24.com/.../they-have-deceived-us-they-have-played-us-read-putins-full-televised-speech-on-ukraine-20220224

[NathanDavis]

@goaded I really don't buy any of that... Putin is among the smartest leaders on this earth, and his reign is based on an oligarchy, so this means that he has oligarchs on his side... all of them care about money and nothing else... going rogue for his own sake and his idea of glory is just not a real scenario, he's not another lunatic like Hitler

even if he was... his Army would not respond to it, the Russian armies are not entirely fanatics, but let's assume he was a lunatic and all of his army are fanatics... China would be their strongest ally, now will China risk everything they have and lose it all just so Putin can have his 15 minutes of glory? because the moment Putin decides to use a nuke... anyone with enough knowledge about these situations knows very well that the best way to stop a nuclear war is, pre-emptive strikes... the moment Putin picks up a phone and says "give me the red button" that will be the end of him by the USA, NATO and maybe China as well, why not... why would China let all of their gains go to the ground because of one guy... that's just not realistic in my opinion

[goaded]

Are you sure? I mean, the only thing Ukraine has done to him is want to join an alliance that would have stopped him from doing exactly what he is currently doing. Hell, Russia could join NATO, if it wanted.

It wasn't NATO that invaded Iraq, it was the US, and, to their shame, the UK, Australia, Spain and Poland. NATO is 30 states.

[NathanDavis]

@goaded I am sure... that elitists and those in power would much rather eliminate the one person that will cost them all their wealth, yes... I am 100% sure of that

as for the other part of your comment... I didn't say NATO invaded Irak, however... when the US invaded Irak, Afghanistan... the strikes on Pakistan, all over the Middle East and Africa, everywhere else... the US did it with the support of NATO, logistics that is...

I am sure you are quite aware of this right... is not like every US ship, plane, tank and soldier came out of the USA bases each time, right? USA always uses their military bases all over the world, including the NATO network of facilities, intelligence and resources

which is also why, terrorists targeted all of Europe, and more... not just certain targets

[EmbraceThePain]

I don’t even know at this moment.


I’m currently deployed active-duty infantry, so everyone here is talking about Russia’s attacks on Ukraine but I can’t really be bothered by it.


It is what it is.


I’ll continue reading and following along but I don’t feel like stressing over the numerous variables and intentions of people.


For awhile, many thought Putin was never going to do what he just did, yet, he did it.


History, people seem to not heed it.

[ChrisMaster69]

I am in two minds, he may just put in place a puppet, however at some point those strings get cut.

if he puts it all under Russian control, then it’s a region to rebuild, jobs etc.

i believe he wants the port of Odessa - E95 and every thing to the East of it including Kiev.

He may however settle for everything east of the Dnieper which is a natural border.

For the Peace Settlement I could see him pulling back and getting a treaty which means demilitarisation of the Ukraine and not allowed to join NATO, then leave EU etc to rebuild the Ukraine to the West of the Dnieper.

Taking the entire Ukraine, means he has just moved Russia right next to countries bordering Ukraine which are NATO and full of military. Which is a bit hypocritical as it was partially about having NATO on his border.

it’s like complaining about a bad family up the street, then buying a house next door to them.

[Lliam]

Nope. He wants to eliminate the military threat, defend the people of Donbas and Crimea (over 14,000 of whom have already been slaughtered by Ukrainian forces over the past 8 years), retain Russia's naval base in Sevastopol, prevent Ukraine from becoming a NATO member, and insure that nuclear missiles aren't emplaced in Ukraine. But he doesn't plan to occupy the country, overthrow the government, or absorb it into Russia. This is not an act of imperialism.

[ibodi]

Honest don't know, maybe just need buffer.
What different is that Ukraine is always battlefield german French's descendants were mixed there. neutral is better for them if Ukrainian is so unstable for them. if western countries change attitudes and idea to them. not so important anymore.

[Still-alive]

Well they say they ultimately just want to overthrow the government there.. likely install a puppet perhaps https://time.com/6151024/russian-invasion-ukraine-kyiv-government-us-defense/

[Кураж]

And then Moldova, Romania the rest of the Balkans and central Europe.
He made it clear that he wants to restore the whole of USSR.

This is just Sudetenland 2.0, the rest of Europe will follow.

[AviatorTom]

That's what it looks like, to get Ukraine back into the Russian Federation, like it was as part of the USSR. To do that, he wants to overthrow the existing pro-Western government out and install a puppet government, loyal only to Russia.

[Adam1978]

Yes otherwise he wouldn't have attacked the whole country.

[jshm2]

No need. He just doesn't want the US controlling it like a puppet state.

[888theGreat]

He wanted to , but they had a bad day today , lost 100 plus tanks and like 4000 soldiers have been killed.

[Paul09]

I think Iron is planning on being shot by someone. The whole world hates him. Including Russian people.

[El_Dugin]

Ukraine is a failed country. It's just 44 million mouths to feed.

That said, he has no reason to do so.

[goaded]

Ukraine is in the top few grain exporters in the world.

[El_Dugin]

@goaded Russia doesn't need to export more grains than it does.

[goaded]

The point is Ukraine is not a failed state and can comfortably feed its own people. It's an invaded state. The "freedom" to agree with Putin is not freedom.

[El_Dugin]

@goaded See the balance trade of Ukraine. A military op in Ukraine is a lot more expensive than years of all the Ukraine's export capacity. Your neoliberal talking point is just silly.

[goaded]

Defending themselves against Russia is expensive, maintaining a peaceful country is much cheaper. I did look, by the way, they're way better off than, say, the UK.

[El_Dugin]

@goaded Don't talk about what you know nothing about, okay? Ukraine has a persistent deficit in its trade balance.

[goaded]

So does the UK. Should they be invaded? It looks a lot like you're justifying the invasion of a sovereign, democratic, country who has not done anything wrong.

[goaded]

Aaand, he's gone. Can someone make it so that profiles are made non-private when they leave? Maybe suspend the use of anonymous for a few weeks?

[jimmy2]

He going to test Nato and that will start world war 3

[Agape93]

Yeap and possibly finland next if he can

[TwoToTooTutu2]

Russia doesn't have a good track record in Finland

[Citizenkirk]

Your guess is as good as mine

[TwoToTooTutu2]

He's going for the Black sea. Nothing more

[MountAverage]

I think he wants to turn it into another Belarus.

[Twalli]

If he didn't he wouldn't be attacking the capital.

[OddBeMe]

What else would he settle for?

[josephinelcajon]

"Think" He has!

[Iron_Man]

That’s the mission

[Anonymous]

Yes.

[fireforeffect]

Yes.