Who is interested in the actual agenda in Ukraine?

[Lliam]

Is Russia merely launching an imperialistic war of aggression as Washington and mainstream media claim?

This article, combined with the two additional short articles linked inside it, shed some essential light on the situation.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-was-all-written-rand-corp-plan/5773288

[Soteris]

A "imperialistic war of aggression" is a pretty good summary of the war actually. While it is not entirely clear of the exact end goal it is pretty easy to see what they were going for, partially because its easy to see through their plans and partially because they literally told us. My favorite source is the leaked article that was supposed to come out after Russia had won which spoke a bunch of imperialist nonsense.

Point is, Putin (and to a lesser degree Russia) wants to rebuild their position that they had during the time of the Soviet Union. For that to happen he needs to either maintain a close control over Ukraine and Belarus or outright annex them. As such Russia has been trying to secure their control over Ukraine for the longest time but a while back their hold slipped and Ukraine managed to "get away".

Ever since then Ukraine has been eying joining NATO and the EU which is something Russia can't allow since it would mean Ukraine would be lost to them for basically forever. As such they have gone down the road of increasingly desperate and risky actions to try regain control over Ukraine which has reached its peek with this war as the last desperate attempt to enforce their control before Ukraine is forever lost to them.

That is why Putin can't back down and why he is pretty much prepared to risk everything. Because this is the last attempt he gets. He can always rebuild his economy and army later no matter how damaged his country becomes, he can however never get Ukraine after this.

[Lliam]

Did you even read the article?

[Soteris]

A bit but honestly I am not interested in what they have to say. USA was not really relevant in the lead up to this conflict or its final conclusion nor do I share their concerns about the implications such as fears for WW3. I honestly just dont respect their opinions.

[Andres77]

Nothing is what it seems.
Something is being hidden and will either disappear to save the elite from consequences and/or some other bigger nefarious plan is in the works to do as much damage as possible to the general population.

[VIVANT]

lol I was just now on another post, promising to compile a set of links for people interested in a more historically in depth broad overview less “mainstream news myopia” view of events. I had dropped a pretty terrible pod cast based on a few previous that had been quite informative. Well hit and miss with all these guys, really…

Generally speaking I am finding consortium news (right now specifically with John Mearsheimer & Ray McGovern) gray zone, black agenda report, and Vijay Prashad to give a helpful balanced into the weeds account of events. What I can appreciate is whether I agree or not they at least provide enough substance to argue against in the first place. I’m finding it incredible how so many conversations —well attempts at conversations are met with rapid devolving To “so you’re a nazi who hates dogs cats and doesn’t care if children are suffering” ….🧐 Nazi is interesting in this context if we look at how things escalated years ago and the open friendships currently taking place between Zelinsky and Neo nazi organizations in Ukraine …Always interesting the amount of projection that goes into official media experts western “analysis”

Really wish I spoke like 25 languages. Hard enough getting a picture of what’s what when you understand the original source but having to take translators word for it kinda sucks bad. 😒

I’ll check out your link !😊

[Lliam]

You are in a minority, my friend. How did you get so astute?
I'm on the same page with everything you said. I'm still trying to get all the facts. I don't claim to know everything. But at least I'm not one of the boneheads who thinks they know everything because they heard it on TV.

Let me know if you find the article (s) enlightening. Remember to read the two that are embedded in the article. None of them are very long.

[VIVANT]

Sharing a relatively short list of links I think I may be useful for whomever wishes to give a look. Some analysis history overview direct footage… I understand must are resistant to the unfamiliar but in my opinion it’s important to at least have a broader scope from which to disagree with 😂

Donbas : Life in the front line villages.
https://youtu.be/Kc7P6j6og4k

2 Ray McGovern on Ukraine Russian conflict
https://youtu.be/fUW0mCrAQBc

3 Russians invasion of Ukraine Ray McGovern & John Mearsheimer
https://youtu.be/fUW0mCrAQBc

4 Ukraine state of emergency

https://youtu.be/cMCDpJ2Wvpo

5 Ukraine war exposes hypocrisy, double standard, and racism

https://youtu.be/2g95ndif134

6 Vijay Prashad : Another view on the war in Ukraine

https://youtu.be/OiTxlyiKVT0

7 Max Blumenthal : US is arming neonazis in Ukraine

https://youtu.be/x5Uf7aooxvE

8 Chris Hedges : War profiteers are fueling this crisis

https://youtu.be/FVWIDi4mceg

9 Chris hedges in Ukraine Russia and nato

https://youtu.be/FVWIDi4mceg

10 Ukraine: Questions for the anti war movement w/ Abby Martin Brian Becker

https://youtu.be/JAEybTns0Lg

[VIVANT]

….

11 Vijay Prashad : Hybrid Wars & US Imperialism

https://youtu.be/D-uxISFZbG8

12 Grey Zone : The Ukraine tragedy from US backed coup to Russian Assault

https://youtu.be/e_HxR5GU518

13 Aaron Mate: US Russia conflict threatens havoc world wide

https://youtu.be/NTLXe8qId5A

14 Why Rep Thomas Massie stood against “stand with Ukraine” resolution (congressional bill for open ended military assistance)

https://youtu.be/7ZnIUSvPtdo

15 Matt Tahibbi and Katrina Vanden Huevel on Russia & Ukraine

https://youtu.be/v5vKCkWPNDg

16 Ashfin Rattsnsi on Ukraine and censorship

https://youtu.be/smnFKKeHCdo

I haven’t been on since I saw this last my so I still have to read your link but I shall 😌 🙏🏼

[Lliam]

@VIVANT. That's LOT of videos. LOL Have you watched them all?
I'm familiar with all of the hosts and have seen a couple of those videos already, but I'll check out the others you posted.

I've read more information today, including some interesting information about the apparent false flag narrative on the bombed maternity hospital.

[Anonymous]

Genuinely just want all this suffering to stop. I've read a lot of arguing on this site (unrelated to this thread) about who agrees or disagrees with whoever. This pain and destruction needs to stop, this should be everybody’s first and foremost priority.

Every second this goes on, more and more people are being killed. These are not toy soldiers or pretend civilians. These are people’s lives, and they feel fear and all the other emotions a human feels.

God I wish this would stop.

[lightbulb27]

I agree with this:
"Today, the dangers of military escalation are beyond description.
What is now happening in Ukraine has serious geopolitical implications. It could lead us into a World War III scenario.
It is important that a peace process be initiated with a view to preventing escalation.
Global Research condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine."

What struck me not getting through it all:
* Pseudo science/conspiracy rating - caveat, who can trust the "bias" websites opinion.. for they provide no evidence of their opinion
* No references by this supposedly "deep research" org about Rand corporation documents justifying their statements. Of course, noone in news does.

I'll keep an open mind.

[TurkishDİxon3419]

Western states. They harm the Russian people as much as they harm Russia. Not all Russians support the war and do not deserve this treatment. Why don't they show the same for Israel?

[Lliam]

I'm not sure what you mean by Israel. Do you mean why doesn't msm report what Israel does to Gaza in the same way it talks about Ukraine.

[TurkishDİxon3419]

Yup. While the whole world is excommunicating the Russians, why don't they do the same for the baby-killer state of Israel? Or are Palestinians not human?

[TurkishDİxon3419]

In fact, the situation is not limited to Palestine. This includes the Chinese state oppressing East Turkestan and the Indian state persecuting Indian Muslims.

[TurkishDİxon3419]

Yes, for example, why don't the Europeans who embrace Ukraine also embrace the Syrians? Years ago, the Turkish state had allowed Syrians to go to Europe, but the Greek state prevented the Syrians from crossing the border and left them to die by blowing up their boats. They would have died if the Turkish state had not come and rescued them.

[Lliam]

Saudi Arabia murdering Yemis. You're right. It's a long list. And I agree with you 100%, sir.

Why wasn't anyone crying about the suffering when the Ukrainian government cut off water and power to Crimea and Donbas? Where is the mention of 14,000 eastern Ukrainians murdered and many more displaced by shelling by the Ukrainian military and it's openly Nazi militia members?

[TurkishDİxon3419]

Yes, the strong try to crush the weak. America's dog Saudis are shooting at Yemen. I don't want anyone to die, but the world only hurts innocent people in Christian countries, Muslims are treated like they don't exist, it pisses me off. We Muslims help anyone in the world who needs help, regardless of race, language or religion. As the Turkish people, we support the Ukrainian people, of course, but I want the same thing to be done for other innocents. There is a double standard right now.

[ibodi]

We feel them from normal so call them fighting nations.
Sorry can not read so much English words when I see so much.

[RolandCuthbert]

All y'all have is conspiracy theories. Why don't you get on facebook, befriend a person who is in Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Kiev or Sumy?

Convince them that the soldiers they are fighting against are NATO soldiers. Convince them they are not hungry. Convince them they are not being shelled or shot at.

The fact is simply this, you value your politics above and beyond human life. It is a sociopathic response to human tragedy.

[Lliam]

Don't try to tell me that you are in contact with Ukrainians on Facebook. You obviously get your information for mainstream media.

And you're off topic. What you said has nothing to do with the cause of the conflict. If you were capable of reading, you would read what I posted and inform yourself. Or you would try to refute the information.

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, I have friends in Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, Georgia, Poland, and Montenegro.

That's my source for information. All you conspiracy mongers get your info second hand, a dollar late, straight from your political troll farms.

Nothing you post is from an actual source that is being bombed, trying to find food, or seeking shelter. You don't know a single refugee. You don't know a single soldier or anyone fighting on the front lines.

Yet, we are supposed to believe you because you don't like the media.

One would think if you had evidence that the media was lying, you would post sources. As for mine, I use facebook and instagram. You are welcome to join our conversations if you dare. I have three Ukrainian families in my discussion group. I have two Russian friends online.

As for the lying conspiracy site you referenced, I quote;

The strategic plan of the United States against Russia was elaborated three years ago by the Rand Corporation (the manifesto, Rand Corp: how to bring down Russia, May 21, 2019).

So three years ago, against Trump's wishes, we were trying to bring down Putin? It is the funniest conspiracy theory ever. As Trump disavowed Russian cyberattacks in front of the entire world, taking Putin at his word. As Trump held up shipments of arms to Ukraine for personal favors. As Trump worked to lift sanctions against Putin. . . forcing Congress to pass veto proof legislation forcing him to sign the sanctions into law.

[RolandCuthbert]

Theory reads, it isn't Ukrainians who are doing the fighting using their own outdated equipment, etc. They are using NATO facilities and following NATO commands, etc. This analysis seems to forget that Russia invaded Ukraine over 8 years ago. It seized Crimea. It seized Donbass. And that war continued uninterrupted every single day. As Putin lied to his own citizens while Russian soldiers were sent back in bodybags because of supposed "training missions".

So Russians are not losing because of a conscript military, poor logistics and low morale. They aren't losing because they are facing a highly motivated populace that will never surrender to Russian rule. It is because somehow. . . NATO has tipped the scales in a war where Russia had overwhelming military power.

[Lliam]

I can see that you know everything there is to know as would any good Voice of America/msm/U. S. government-trusting, historically ignorant, Russophobic, Nazi-loving, loyal Democrat who thinks they are liberal but unknowingly supports totalitarianism and U. S. imperialism. LMAO
That being the case, we have nothing more to talk about, do we?

I have a couple of independent journalist Facebook 'friends' who live in Russia and other 'friends' around the world.

I also value human life and empathize with suffering. I celebrate Russia stepping in to stop the U. S. and its proxies from turning Syria into Mad Max land like it did to Libya.
I stand with Palestinians, Yemenis and Somalis.
I empathize with the people in Crimea and Donbas who had their water and power cut of; with journalists and opposition leaders who were imprisoned; with Russian speakers who had their language banned; with the Romani, LGBT and others who have been brutalized by proudly Nazi militia; and with the 14,000 men, women and children who were murdered and many more displaced in Donbas by constant shelling over the past 8 years by the benevolent Ukrainian regime, even during cease fires.

It's a real shame that Russia has destroyed bio-weapons labs and so many Ukrainian military bases and weapons. I'm sorry that I don't believe that Russia is engaged in shock and awe and targeting civilians. It reminds me of war propaganda like Gaddafi giving Viagra to his soldiers to rape minorities in Syria or Iraqi soldiers dumping new born infants out of incubators.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah, my friends in Ukraine and Russia are all loyal dems. Being unable to tell the truth about the war, having your babies wake up screaming in the night because of the bombings and missile strikes, standing up on a train for 28 hours straight, with no food, except some cookies and water makes you into a bleeding heart liberal. That's how batshit insane you and your brood are.

And I am a Russianphobe, even as I will take my Russian friendships to grave.

Keep trying you twisted youtube trolling conspiracy freak.

I don't go to youtube or to websites full of incel lonely anti-social trolls.

I get my news from the source.

You look for the pure shit that rubberstamps your politics.

[Lliam]

You're obviously soooo informed. I'll bet you just coincidentally agree with msm on everything.
You're so compassionate that I'll bet you don't give a fuck about Palestinians, Yemenis, Afghanis, Iraqis, Iranians, Libyans, Persians, Serbians, or eastern Ukrainians. But frightened western Ukrainians make you sob.

[RolandCuthbert]

Oh yes, I am informed I am talking to my friends at this moment. It is morning in Ukraine. I have a friend in Berlin trying to petition the government for refugee status. Just four weeks ago I have video of her oldest and young daughter playing in the streets of Kharkiv. Today they are refugees, after traveling via car, train and on foot for three days. I have sent as much money as I can. She and her children are good for a month. Her husband isn;t Ukrainian so he was able to travel with them. They have no idea what the future holds.

I compare that to the words of a lying anonymous troll on the net who is risking nothing and just spreading pure grade a shit.

The choice may be a little easy when it comes to understanding who to believe.

[Lliam]

First what are they fleeing from, Russian berserkers, who are raping, pillaging and bombing population centers? Maybe they are as indoctrinated as you.

Second, none of this has to do with the article which you refused to read. Learn to read, moron. Educate yourself.

And I notice that you didn't say a word about any of the other people in the world that I mentioned. No. You don't even care about Nazis controlling Ukraine. In your msm state of brainwash, all you think about is Putin, Putin, Putin.

[lightbulb27]

Is your communications with the refugees you know in English or other languages? how does one listen to discussion if they wish?

[RolandCuthbert]

I read your article. I quoted your article.

Your words at those of a lying coward. You have no integrity, no honor and no soul.

Their home is totally destroyed, the shops where they brought groceries, the restaurants they dined in, the playgrounds their kids played in.

And we compare that reality to you, an internet troll with his pants down around his ankles jacking off to it all.

Again, maybe the choice is a bit easy. Anyone here, with courage to stop being anonymous can join my group and speak to my Ukrainian and Russian friends directly.

But having courage isn't your deal. And every single culture know who the cowards are.

[lightbulb27]

@RolandCuthbert how do we listen to your group? Is it in English?

[RolandCuthbert]

@lightbulb27 Here is a suggestion. . . why don't you get to know a Ukrainian or Ukrainian American person? Join a facebook group. Join a meetup organization.

Most Ukrainians are taught English in school. Just like folks in Georgia, Latvia, etc. In Russia and Belarus, that doesn't happen. It is Russian first and only.

The friend I have spoken about is not even originally from Ukraine. She is Georgian. I have written about her before. Her ethnicity is actually Arab. She is a Christian Arab. But she became a Ukrainian citizen a long time ago.

So I am just going to say this again. . . I am about done answering questions about my friends in Ukraine and Russia. If you want to meet them, you can join my facebook group. You can meet them online. We can do zoom calls, they can show you what they are going through. My other friend who is still in Kharkiv can show you the destruction.

You see, Ukrainians are a simple people. If you bomb them, they tend to hold you responsible. If you support the person who bombed them, they tend to dislike you.

That's just how they roll.

[RolandCuthbert]

@lightbulb27 Well, I only speak English. I have friends who don't. But when there is a will, there is a way. I don't recall any discussion we have had that was not in English.

Don't you have any Ukrainian or Russian folks in your neighborhood?

[Lliam]

@RolandCuthbert. So I'm a coward for posting information on the reasons behind the war. It didn't say anything about the war itself. I didn't say anything about taking sides, nor did the article.

And again, you apparently don't correspond with any eastern Ukrainians or Crimeans. You appear to take the side of the U. S. and it's Nazi proxies. Therefore, your compassion rings hollow.

I wonder how you 'happened' to have all those Ukrainian friends. How long have you been in that group?

[RolandCuthbert]

You are not posting information. You are posting lies. And you do it as a coward, hiding out on the net where your identity cannot be tracked.

You do that for reason.

So your words mean nothing. The words of a cowards should not be considered. Again, if you ever grow some balls, we can meet online and exchange notes. Then you can show me all your Crimean friends. You can show me the Tatars who love subjugation and your Ukrainian friends who love being bombed.

[Lliam]

I shared actual journalism. You're the one who is trolling. Something has prompted you're hysteria. The most obvious source is msm. Or are you paid to circulate propaganda? Who started the 'group' that you talk about? Could it be part of a psy-op?

I notice that you don't answer any of my questions.

You have nothing to offer on this topic but unsubstantiated rants and attacks.

[TheBigWhistle]

A conspiracy theory spouting, pro Russian loon is going to inform us as to the "actual agenda".

ROTFLMAO. Cool story, bro.

[tartaarsaus]

A drug addict on coke is more reliable than globalresearch lmfao

[Lliam]

You'd have to know how to read before you could make that judgement. But hey, check out Anderson Cooper's in depth analysis. Watch TV and they'll tell you what to think so that you don't have to. ROFL