Apparently, you are not thinking this through very well or did any significant research.
First, the "old jets from the 80's and 90's" aren't old and are still being used.
For example, US Air Force F-15s and F-16s which were first used in the 1970s.
Military aircraft aren't like cars or fast food.
You don't pull up to the Lockheed Martin Drive-Thru and say "I'll have 3 F-16s, 2 F-35Cs, and and F-35A to go."
"Fries with that?"
These aircraft take a long time to design and test and cost taxpayers zillions of dollars.
The taxpayers can't afford to have new types of planes every third Tuesday. So, the planes that are not too expensive to maintain are kept operational until a replacement comes along.
What about retired planes?
Let's take a look at an F-14, the planes seen in the 1986 movie "Top Gun". The F-14 is an aircraft carrier naval plane, but it could be used as an ground-based tactical fighter. F-14s were retired in 2006 being replaced by F/A-18ss on carries, but F-14 are still good planes - on par with F-15s which are still operational and developed around the same time.
OK, so, where are all 600+ F-14s today?
Almost all gone.
About 40 are left and still flying - they are all in Iran. They were sold to Iran in the 1970s before the Islamic Revolution.
All the other F-14s were stripped so their parts could not be used by the Iranians to maintain those F-14s.
Most other retired planes are in museums or "The Boneyard" in Arizona.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/309th_Aerospace_Maintenance_and_Regeneration_Group
Old planes, like F-4s, are not a good matchup with Russian MiGs which are more modern.
======
But, suppose the US "loaned" Ukraine, say, a dozen F-35As, the Air Force version of the F-35. Who's going to fly them? The Ukrainians? Nope. In fact, the Ukrainians, having been part of the Soviet Union, likely do not have much armaments from the Western (NATO) countries. The only planes that Ukrainians can fly are the old Soviet ones. Who has them? Well, the Russians, of course, but, fortunately, there are members of the EU such as Poland which used to be behind the Iron Curtain... that is, they were part of the "Eastern Bloc" and were satellite countries of the Soviet Union. So, a former Eastern Bloc country like Poland or Bulgaria or Slovakia which all border Ukraine might be able to loan/donate planes that the Ukrainians can fly.
And, apparently, that happened.
TITLE: Ukraine conflict: EU to supply Kyiv with fighter aircraft
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/ukraine-conflict-eu-to-supply-kyiv-with-fighter-aircraft
Notice this excerpt from the article which encapsulates the problem:
===
The European Union (EU) is to provide the Ukrainian armed forces with combat aircraft to help replace battlefield losses in the face of Russia's renewed invasion of the country.
...
“We are going to provide even fighting jets,” Borrell said. “[Kyiv] has been asking us that they need the kind of fighting jets that the Ukrainian [Air Force] is able to operate. We know that some [EU] member states have these kind of planes, and the western borders of Ukraine are still open and several [of these] member states have a border with Ukraine.”
As noted by the EU foreign policy chief, Kyiv is requesting specifically those Soviet-era combat aircraft that the Ukrainian Air Force inherited in 1991 and still operates today. These are the MiG-29 ‘Fulcrum' and Sukhoi Su-27 ‘Flanker' multirole combat aircraft, and the Sukhoi Su-24 ‘Fencer' and Su-25 ‘Frogfoot' ground attack aircraft. Of these, EU member states could supply the MiG-29 and Su-25.
As noted by Janes World Air Forces, the Polish Air Force fields 21 single-seat and six twin-seat MiG-29s; the Bulgarian Air Force fields 11 single-seat and three twin-seat MiG-29s; while the Slovak Air Force fields nine single-seat and two twin-seat MiG-29 aircraft (although only a small number is thought to still be in an airworthy condition). The Bulgarian Air Force also fields six single-seat and two twin-seat Su-25s.
If these aircraft were to be donated, the Ukrainian Air Force could receive as many as 52 MiG-29s and eight Su-25s. Although not confirmed, it has been reported that the United States could look to backfill these donated aircraft with Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcons that are in service with Poland, and which are on order for Bulgaria and Slovakia.
...
===
So, in a nutshell, the Ukrainians would get donations of the Soviet-era aircraft from former Eastern Bloc countries and the US will replace those donations with US planes.
But Ukraine needs MiGs.
We don't make or own any MiGs
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/598023-get-additional-mig-29s-to-ukraine-now
Ukraine’s Air Force has been effective in denying Russia air superiority in the skis over Ukraine. It is likely because of a combination of lack of planning, preparation and training on the part of the Russian Aerospace Force — and the tenacity, dedication and effectiveness of the Ukrainian Air Force. It is critical to the survival of Ukraine to deny Russia air superiority over Ukraine because control of the air is a prerequisite for both freedom to attack and freedom from attack.
Flying fighter aircraft in combat and stressing them to max performance, as Ukraine’s air force is doing today, wears down these special machines. Parts tend to break, and the jets require maintenance. Of course, the Ukrainian Air Force is also under direct attack by Russia. The MiG-29 is the primary air defense aircraft in Ukraine’s air force inventory. Several of these Ukrainian fighters have been disabled or destroyed, and without resupply Ukraine is likely to run out of serviceable fighter aircraft before they run out of pilots to fly them. So, the Ukrainians need additional MiG-29s for the sustainment of their air force to continue their air defense against Russian aggression. Simply put, this is why the transfer of Mig-29s to Ukraine is so vital.
Bio weapons are a serious thing, like chemical weapons that would affect neighbouring countries.
The US military has vast fleets of f16s, f15s, f18s, harriers, A4 skylarks, f4s, f5s f100s and other fighter aircraft sitting the desert waiting to be reactivated but Ukraine lacks pilots. Ukraine lacks pilots so the US could do what they did in ww2 with Eagle squadron in Britain and flying tigers in China but then Ukraine lacks airfields and the Russian airforce would destroy them b4 they get going.
Probably more effective and cost effective to supply anti air weapons. For every fighter the US sends, they could probably send 2000 stinger missles.
The F4 is still a decent aircraft as is A4 Skyhawk. The US has vast reserves of mothballed f15 and f16s thar can be made ready within 48 hours.
@abc3643 is mistaken. The Ukrainians could easily have the planes the want from the US delivered like pizza. When the Isralis lost most of their tanks in the first days of the Yom kippur war to new soviet anti Air and tank weapons the American government was able to replace the entire loses so that the Israelis could win with in a week. As a result Egypt and Syria were beaten.
`Because planes from that vintage are probably out of commission and resting in some bone yard. They would probably be shot down easily with all the new technology anyways. How about all the countries in Europe and England do it instead. It isn't the US's duty to help others who just 30 years ago were our enemies.
They are helping them by sending them anti tank and stingers missiles so your point is invalid. In fact the U. S. has send over $800 million worth of equipment in the recent days.
Fighter jets is better than nothing. Those 80's and 90's fighter jets are still decent.
Not if they are in bone yards. For once I wish the US would help it's own instead of everyone else.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy @daniela1982 Don't forget Russian S-400 and S-500 even it can detect and shoot down F-35 as well !
@Sangrilam I'm not up on Russian technology or what it can do.
Opinion
27Opinion
Do you know how long it takes to train a pilot to just fly an aircraft of a different type?
that’s just fly it, not even weapons or anything, just take off and land it.
There are things called Operational Conversion Units in the RAF, these specialise in training aircrew to fly an new type safely.
They leave the OCU but are still not combat ready.
it can take a year for a pilot to become combat ready, even if they did it sooner at 6 months.
Then there is the ground crew, from engineers to safety equipment.
Thats learning how hydraulic systems work on that specific type, how engine fit and removes work, how you fix weapon systems, avionics systems, carry out battle damage repair and a huge chunk of other stuff.
Also the aircraft would not stop the artillery and rockets or stand off missiles.
This is why the Mig 29’s were mentioned, less time to familiarise on them.
if you gave them say F18’s they would likely be ready for combat by October at the earliest.
that means taking all those pilots and engineers out of Ukraine and getting them Sim time, training course and for pilots flying time.
You have to train the pilots, maintenance crew etc, that takes months.
You have to fly the planes there, a US plane entering the conflict would lead to a direct confrontation.
Russia obviously would lose the airspace very quickly if the US did that and without air support a few warthogs could reduce all those Russian tanks to scraps in hours. The Russian soldiers would probably be forced to abandon them as they would be deathtraps.
The idea to give Poland new fighters so they can give the migs that Ukraine pilots know how to fly to Ukraine seemed to be the best plan. But again that would mean launching fighters from Poland into Ukraine airspace.
Putin litteraly moved an ICBM around as an. ', exercise" I expect him to try to move nuclear weapons into Belarus. Judging by the propaganda he spreads about NATO (false propaganda) puting them in Ukraine and Poland. (Which removed them in 1991) .
Putin, if you want to know what he's going to do , look at what his propaganda says the west is doing.
I think the Biden administration is trying to show its committed to Ukraine, without increasing tensions with Russia. Ultimately its a foolish mistake.
Though the Russians are clearly struggling in the war, they have more materials than the Ukrainians, and will ultimately be able to defeat them simply due to that.
If the United States did nothing, it would look weak.
If the United States provided overt military support, it could draw the ire of Russia and China. Which I don't think Biden (unwisely) wants to do? Because I believe they are in this false sense that they can still talk sensibly with the Russians, or the Chinese.
Ultimately it just makes the United States look as if its half committed.
But then again, look at how Biden handled Afghanistan. That likely influenced the Russian and Chinese aggression. Sadly that whole debacle could have been avoided. As long as American influence remained the Taliban would never have dared to move.
Such poor leadership in the United States
When you have a madman just dropping bombs that threaten to drop more bombs if you get involved can sorta rise the risks of getting more people involved and get more people killed, it's a sensitive situation, all countries have been helping without really getting involved which is what I believe is preventing anymore bombings in other countries, if we scramble some fighter jets to defend, we just stepped into the battlefield which will involve not just our military but our whole country as well, then other countries will feel forced to step in and we would have a whole world war, at that point I'd predict that since putin will be underpowered because of all the enemy countries, he might even consider bringing in biological warfare out of desperatness, which will just be terrible for everyone involved.
It's also easy to say that you can donate fighter planes but how exactly will that be accomplished if there's Russians patrolling the skies
All countries are trying to help Ukraine as much as they can without escalating the problem to make it even worse
Through the Sea?
Russians have taken over most borders if not all borders by the sea of Ukraine
That's the control Russia has in Ukraine, it's mapped, it's going to be hard to sneak any kind of heavy military weapons into Ukraine
I think the only way to control the situation is if all countries get involved at once, perhaps not give Russia any time to react but that's also dangerous as we don't know how China will react and possibly put a bunch more lives at risk if something unexpected happens, Russia has history of having the most powerful nuclear bomb in the world called the tsar Bomba, it's 10x more powerful than a nuclear bomb, it's powerful enough to wipe out a whole city, it was tested Years ago, ho knows what other bomb they can have.
Who*
The Ukrainian airforce doesn't have the infrastructure to receive U. S. aircraft. Different aircraft require different fuel types. Different weapons. Different parts. Different training for pilots and crew.
Furthermore, that may well be considered too escalatory. It might have wanted to be a NATO member, but the Ukraine isn't NATO. Honestly I doubt Biden wants to risk the escalation for a non NATO country.
I am quite shocked that we are sending what we have! We are seriously walking the "red line" with Putin. We should be sending food and medical aide as well as assisting those that want to leave. There is a lot going on that we are not told. I think this certainly will not end peacefully and will leave us in another cold war. That is the best case the worst that very easily can happen is an all-out nuke war WW3 where no one wins! So help Ukraine today and die tomorrow or help those that are leaving Ukraine and live?
The US and NATO (a subsidiary of the US effectively) don't want a shooting war with Russia (too expensive and politically bad) but DO want to keep the present war going since it is so lucrative for US arms manufacturers. Check historic stock prices for Boeing, Raytheon, and Lockheed Martin, if you think this is not correct.
No bed you fight Ukraine’s war for it, under any circumstances. And our NATO dependencies have no appetite for it either. Let’s protect our own borders for once. .
usa can't even manage its own economy under biden, i'd much rather have the usa fix its economy first before getting involved in anything else.
You wouldn't want to be in Turkey. Here inflation is 120%
@TurkishDİxon3419 we have pretty bad inflation here too; but i don't think its quite as bad yet
Meat weight 150 200 TL
that's a very bad idea because training someone to fly a jet takes... years. and we don't have years
so we can't send them jet planes they aren't already trained to use
i agree with getting involved if russia goes beyond a certain point though. that's good.
For fear of reprisals. Putin has a psychological grip on USA. This is the lasting effect of Southeastern Oil pipeline shutdown.-“If Putin can do that to America then who knows what he can do” is what much of the world thinks…at least in Asia.
Because Russia would call that an act of war and it'd kick of WW3- remember that Ukraine's not a NATO member, and thinking "why can't we help them, just a little?" is how we got involved in Vietnam.
We are sending them weapons though.
The bio and nukes they could say drifted into NATO countries therefore it is an attack on NATO.
Hunter Biden has taken millions from Russia and also was receiving money from Ukraine. Biden is making it look like he is helping Ukraine but actually he is just giving them enough so that they will fail.
Not one sentence of yours remotely resembles the truth. Quite an achievement! 🙄
@DryGermanGuy There is a plethora of evidence on his laptop and there is a business associate that corroborated it. Evn the NY Times says it is legit.
Because Biden is a pussy. Trump would have gone with it. And Poland gave the US cold war vintage MIG29's in a proposed trade for better American fighters. This is because Ukraine has trained MIG29 pilots ready to fly them.
m simply put... it could bring even more, way way more destruction and death... not just for Ukraine but to other regions as well
that's why
How so when they are fighting over Ukraine air space?
are you seriously this naive... lol
is this an actual question, or you're just trolling me...
are you implying that fighting with planes brings no casualties... because well, we are not all floating up there in space? haha
Shooting the damn planes down.
They are shooting some helicopters and planes with stingers if they fly to low.
you can't be serious...
America and NATO, betrayed Ukraine, and did not donate Military equipment before Russian attack, now Russia is upper hand, problem for Ukraine to repulse Russia
The us donates almost all the tax payers money too Ukraine isn’t that enough? Also this would if never happened If nato let Russia in before the war.
Because it'll do more harm than good to USA and NATO.. so.. cowardice.
How so?
It's Russia, dude. Ranks just below USA in military strength. Also a nuclear power. Ukraine wasn't a part of NATO and if they were to interfere in Ukraine Russia war, they'd too suffer destruction and loss of military equipments. If USA was too helpful and concerned about human rights and lives, it wouldn't even invade and bomb other countries past few decades. And since my opinion was about was concerned with 'more harm than good' USA and alliances will look after their security first then think of helping others. Every nation looks after its their own benefits at the end of the day. Be it Russia or USA or others.
Old jets won't cut it. It's got to be capable of taking down MIG 29's or they'll just die. If we send MiG 29's it opens the NATO countries to possible nuclear retaliation.
Because Democrats are gutless and scared of offending Russia
that is an "Over-there" problem... not a USA Problem
Poland offered to do that, and Biden stopped it.
Unbelievable. You know the reason why?
:Poland asked Bide to guarantee that if one of their planes got shot down, we would give them one of ours. And yet Biden gave the Taliban 80 billion in high tech weapons before we left.
That is because Bite-on-it is an idiot.
@Daniela1982 Yep, I agree with you 100%.
Because Biden is a limp dick pussy
That could lead to Russia vs US war
Russia will shoot them down
First give Turkey's F 35s, then you help Ukraine.
I don't think they should do anything. Fuck 'em.
who will fly them?
They can.
bullshit
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