Do you think it’s unfair how we in The West equate Russia with The Soviet Union?

[RyanEC]

During the Cold War The Soviet Union was often just called Russia.
This seems to me unfair because that puts all the atrocities of the Soviet period on Russia and the Russian people and not on the communist ideology that controlled the country.
Also ethnic Russia were not in power in most of Soviet history.
Lenin was Jewish, Stalin was Georgian, and Khrushchev and Brezhnev were both Ukrainian.

I think this is harmful for relations between the west and Russia because we put on the blame on them, and we look at them as if they are evil.

I think it would be better if we recognize that all 15 of the Soviet countries became independent and rejected the communist system.
And that we should have been trying to form better ties with all of them.

[WhiteSteve]

For sure. I was a child of the 80s, I grew up kind of like the prols in the book “1984” (actually was in kindergarten in the real 1984, haha), there was one and only one sworn enemy, “The Russians”, or technically,
The USSR. “We are at war with Russia. We have ALWAYS been at war with Russia.” Dead ass, it was just like the book in that regard, and my general take on “1984” isn’t the common “oH mY gOd, ThIs CoUlD rEaLiStIcAlLy HaPpEn To Us!!! ThIs ShOuLd Be ReQuIrEd ReAdInG!!!”, I think that’s kind of a silly thing to worry about in reality, but people make stretches to make it seem like more of a possibility than it is.

Anyway, I say all that to say “yes, I guess I was raised to fear Russia/USSR”, not so much by my family but just the general tenor of American society. My uncle was killed in Vietnam…I would tell people at a young age that he was “killed by the Russians.” He actually died in a non-combat plane crash, lmao.

So with that said, I do think there’s just an American/Western distaste for all things Russian, and I don’t really get it. The USSR has been disbanded for three decades. Probably time to start getting over it, haha. When I heard Putin’s initial speech explaining his “military action”, as much as I don’t endorse what he’s done, he struck a chord with me (whether it’s legit or trying to manipulate his citizens is another story, but conceptually, I can see his argument)…. he basically was like “Stop fucking with us over some dead Cold War bullshit. Get over it, and let us move forward. It’s not against the rules for Russia to be a world superpower, America or anywhere else doesn’t have to like it, but you can’t rightly stand in our way either. Let us live, let us try to shine on our own, we aren’t Communist anymore (not that that should bother anyone OUTSIDE of a communist society), so what the fuck is the problem? We’re a huge country, we aren’t just going to slink off into a corner somewhere and be quiet because you’re still mad about last century. So you don’t have to be our friend, but why do insist on being an enemy, and trying to stymie us? America and the West don’t own the world, they don’t make the decisions about right vs wrong for all of us, so just back the fuck and mind your business.”

Again, that may or may not be genuine, it may just be him trying to rally his people around something he has ulterior motives about, who knows? But his “people” are just like people in America or elsewhere. Many love their country, a quality many Americans celebrate in other Americans, and condemn them in its absence. So it’s cool for America and it’s buddies to be patriotic, but if anywhere else does it, fuck you? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I’m not a guy who gets up in arms about “hypocrisy”, I think I’ve learned that’s kind of a universal human trait that we just call each other out on when it’s convenient for our own argument, despite constantly engaging in it ourselves, daily🤦‍♂️😂…. but if you don’t like hypocrisy, you shouldn’t like any of this.

I was recently watching that charity hockey game Putin played in against all the old Russian NHL players from the 80s and 90s (clearly set him up, and, to a lesser degree, his defense minister “General” Shoigu, for endless scoring opportunities, I think Putin had like 8 goals lmfao), but what struck me was seeing the crowd in the arena on the broadcast. I saw people. Just PEOPLE.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/AYRuuY3-GFg

A couple buddies out crushing a few cold ones watching a game. A guy out on a date with his wife/girlfriend. Couples with their young children. Everybody just out for a night, singing and dancing along with the stadium music, cheering for the game, just having a fun night out. JUST LIKE US. If I turned the sound off, I might not even know it wasn’t in North America. People are people, everywhere.

[WhiteSteve]

Now imagine we get into some military skirmish with them, and we’re bombing the shit out people…. it’s those same people. Not some cold, heartless killer of an enemy, just random, regular people who just happened to be born somewhere else, under a different flag. But the human experience is the same. Everything, positive or negative, that we experience, love and heartbreak, happiness and sadness, stress and relief, excitement and boredom…. it’s all the same, everywhere. It can be a little different depending on certain cultures, but I think the general human experience is very much the same.

So let’s all remember to be better than we were in The Cold War. It’s fine to disapprove of Putin, he’s the one making the moves. But people are just people, man. We absolutely cannot lose sight of that.

[KostasKouvalis]

Not really. They're not murdering people by the masses, but Putin has pretty much run the country for the past 2 decades, and they arrest people who protest against the government, and Russian people need a passport to travel within in their own country. It's still almost impossible to start a business there. Also they dope their athletes. And they're still invading their neighborhoods trying to expand their empire.
So really, not a whole lot has changed.

[alice55]

"I think it would be better if we recognize that all 15 of the Soviet countries became independent and rejected the communist system.
And that we should have been trying to form better ties with all of them."
We already have very good relationship with them at least for European countries (in America i don't know but European countries have great relationship with ancient Soviet countries.

"I think this is harmful for relations between the west and Russia because we put on the blame on them, and we look at them as if they are evil." again for America I don't know but it been more than 20 years European countries are submissive to Russia cause they're too afraid of getting attacked, not getting any gas or fuel anymore, etc... So no all that the West did was not being mean to Russia or anything but we have been more than nice to them always putting their interest first we only started to "harass" them when they started attacking Crimea (while just after the Soviet union collapsed they signed paper saying they would never attack Ukraine but they still did). Also all Russia did those last 20 years was threatening European countries safety and well being all the time for us to do what he want and then they go crying everybody hate Russian but those that hate Russian the most are ancient Soviet republic so that say a lot. He also killed Russian people outside of Russia he didn't like (while they were protected in European countries) and send his spy all around the world even after the cold war ended. Too he's always lying, he had a peace treaty with and Ukraine and two days before attacking promised he wouldn't attack and what did he do attack it, etc...

[RyanEC]

I think this started with NATO expanding further East closer to Russia.

I think it would be better if Russia was in NATO if NATO was to expand.
I’m not sure if there was a real effort on either side for Russia to join NATO.
I have read a few times that Putin wanted to join NATO early on but was rejected, but some say Russia wants to just do its own thing.

You might be right about the US having worse relations with Russia then European countries since we aren’t neighbors.

[alice55]

I don't think so cause Russia was actually "friend" with Nato until Russia attacked Crimea they used to work with NATO so I think the expansion things is just a lie using to justify his action.
Russia didn't belong to NATO but they worked with NATO and were actually in it (even if they were no official document about it) though most of the time Russia refused to help NATO when it asked for help so they never wanted to be a part of it just wanted the advantage and do their own things.

Yes, too in Europe being neighbor we kind of need to have good relationship with everyone we're too afraid of creating another ww.

[RyanEC]

I just try to look at their point of a little to understand why they are doing what they are doing, and to at least see their point of view.

I hope there is some way to prevent another Cold War after this.
I would rather see Russia as our friend (western Europe and The US) then with China.

[alice55]

I tried to do it tou but problem is that Putin is always lying so it's impossible to know for sure why he's doing this and what he want. Also Ukraine accepted everything Putin asked for having a peace treaty but Putin refused it and continued to attack Ukraine, I don't understand.
He's also threathing European countries now that if we don't pay him in ruble he's refusing to give us gas, fuel, etc..(and that's actually illegal to chose the currency of it but he doesn't care).

I don't think Russia is going to be our friends (at least so long as there's Putin as their president) he's going to side with China cause both share the same value (But China is friends to nobody they're greedy and use everyone for money so Russia won't really have any ally).

It would be better it we all got along but I don't think is it going to happen any time soon.

[KostasKouvalis]

This might interest both of you...
What does this social experiment tell you about the world we're currently living in? ↗

[European4Ever]

The Cold War was based mainly on two opposing ideologies. What this time period most resembles is imperialism and aspirations of dominance pre-WW, as well as the desire to correct injustices and nationalistic pride pre-WW2. That's why America, the West, and NATO cannot revive the Cold War, they risk igniting WW3.

[European4Ever]

*imperialism and aspirations of dominance pre-WW1

[sissyalexa]

The soviet Union was a dictatorship masquerading as a socialist government, I'd say its more apt to say that we wrongly demonise socialism.

I think you're right though, the actions of the soviet union shouldn't colour how you perceive Russia as a country or how you see Russian people.

Unfortunately Russians current behaviour makes it hard to sympathise with Russia's PR problems 🤨

[NamerOfStars]

Totally. Unfortunately, much of the leadership of Russia is old men who grew up under the Soviet system, and haven't quite gotten it out of their system, and much of the American leadership is old men (and a few old women) who grew up during the Cold War, and have "Down with the Commies!" as their mindset, not realizing that the Russians AREN'T Communists any more.

During the Cuban missile crisis, a Soviet sub was spotted by a US destroyer group, who began bombarding them with depth charges. Taking these as the opening shots of World War 3 (which they kind of were), the sub crew decided to fire back- with their NUCLEAR-TIPPED TORPEDO. But that required a unanimous vote of the command crew. The captain voted "yes". The political officer (Soviets, remember) voted "yes". The second-in-command, a guy named Vasily Arkhipov, voted "let's not destroy civilization today". So they decided the surface the sub instead, figuring that if the Americans wanted them dead THAT badly, they'd kill them face-to-face, and so it would be the AMERICANS who set off the war. They didn't; the sailors realized what they'd almost done and backed down (for a couple of days, anyway). Arkhipov's a hero (and not a lone exception; nineteen years later, Stanislov Petrov would cast the dissenting vote preventing a missile launch after a two-cent computer chip identified a flock of geese as a wing of American bombers), and that there isn't a statue of him on every street corner is a damn shame, but think of the other crew members: willing to surface and face almost certain death to avoid destroying humanity. Does that sound like the action of inhuman monsters to you?

Putin's either crazy or evil, but I'd say he's little different from Biden in that regard; just more conquest-minded. The average Russian isn't so different from the average American, just with more vodka and fewer cheeseburgers. I'm pretty sure that somewhere out there is a Russian bluegrass song about a hillbilly (hilldimitry, maybe?) beating the devil in a balalaika contest. But those who remember the Cold War, while they may be able to conquer the fear, are rarely able to conquer their hate.

[ibodi]

Yeah, Although I used the concept of russia that include ukraine but feel that what ukrainians do is still like fighting nation too. I mean that I now know ukrainian call us Khitan, It is good to see something in history. That actually turks may be a cause that ukraine and russia is different and I watch a movie about water attack. I guess some idea has not changed. somehow communism theory has reason against western nazi.
maybe start from western nazi. So I would not think that is wrong.
Taiwanese play it too on purpose but the communism theory may make them dont believe nature too like science try to use nature. Mao used that on chinese to do the root of chinese then mess up but now many philosophier walk out it not simply yes or no. we fought turks and many nations I think many stories made use have such view.
So I also hope ukraine dont take it simply yes or no. Also khitan is simple way to know aside you know I know that does not matter actually. other use these problems.

[goaded]

We have been trying to form better ties with all of them. Russia was even in the G8, until they decided to invade Ukraine.

As for your slightly racist "ethnic Russia[ns]" comment, Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) was a *Russian* Jew, Georgia and Ukraine were part of the Russian Empire then the USSR for most of the rest of the time. And Khrushchev was born in Russia.

Nobody blames the people of Russia for what their leaders are doing, they've been misinformed for over a century.

[RyanEC]

Yes Ukraine and George were park of the Russian empire but also seen as separate ethnic groups along with the Jews.

[European4Ever]

@RyanEC Many Americans and other Anglo nationalities, don't understand the distinction between ethnicity and nationality.

[goaded]

@European4Ever I got the "ethnic" part of what he was saying, that doesn't make Lenin or Khrushchev (at the very least) less Russian. Did those leaders run the USSR using only Georgians, Ukranians or Jews? Has the UK been run by Germans for the last couple of centuries because the Queen's family was German?

[Guy13]

No. I think it is sad how little you know about the Slavic.. Romanov etc…State. The Biblical view as Antichrist-MAGOG is most accurate. It’s a bloody Nation ‼️
—And so “Horrible” was Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great, Romanov etc…. THAT Britain (Christian), Turkey (Ottoman Empire), French (Christian) fought to take out Czar Nicholas (Oligarch/Dictator)…SOUND FAMILIAR⁉️⁉️⁉️ Putin (Oligarch/Dictator)

SO that LENIN could move the Money away from the Oligarchs and become his own Oligarch. Just like BIDEN has been doing last 2 years in America…

Actually,…… 🧐. Obama + Biden = Lenin

[DarkWinterNights]

Why do we call the Russia’s elite Oligarchs, but not America’s elite? We’ve been fed propaganda for years demonizing Russia and Russians. And it’s easy to justify with someone like Putin in power, but America’s ruling class isn’t any better, they just control the media.

[Anonymous]

The soviet union was just a continuation of the the Russian empire under new management with new political ideas and philosophies some good, others not so good.
Those soviet republics tried to break free when the Russian empire crumble but only Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Finland managed it.

[Snakeyes7]

Because it either isn't all that different right now or Putin wants to bring it back, being a former KGB and all.

I even hear that being caught speaking out against Russia's actions against Ukraine condemns you to 15 years in prison if ypu live there or a permanent ban from entry if you don't live there. Doesn't sound very liberty minded to me.

[888theGreat]

More that US invades countries all the time and they use weapons that are not supposed to be used either. They also use banks to punish countries.

US won't invade Russia because they have Nuclear missiles and that is why countries want Nukes , it makes invasions impossible. US would never had invaded Iraq or Afgan if those countries had Nukes.

[tartaarsaus]

The USSR was very much Russia keeping the rest in line dominated with fear.


Also, ethnic Jews, ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Georgians can be Russians.


Guess what? Russians are a diverse people, they aren’t a monolithic group with a single entity. It has an immense expansionist history.

[tartaarsaus]

As for relations between the West and Russia, I couldn’t care less about how upset Russia as a country is about this.

[European4Ever]

That's incorrect. Russian is an ethnic group, Russian Nationality can be any ethnicity because Russia is the most diverse nation in the world with hundreds of ethnic groups. Old World Nations have a distinction between ethnicity and nationality. Sometimes they can overlap but not always. For example, someone who is Scottish cannot be English but both are British since British is a nationality. In most New World nations there is no distinction between ethnicity and nationality. Ethnicity, race, and nationality are all different concepts. Sometimes they can overlap but not always.

[tartaarsaus]

Obviously.

The point is that making it about ethnic Russians is idiotic from the question asker

[England4eva]

I don’t understand a single thing about it. One of these days I will delve into the history, so that I’m able to have a proper conversation about it.

[jshm2]

Only a dipshit would equate Russia with the Soviet Union.

It would be like some dumbass thinking "The West" is one country.

[ChrisMaster69]

Basically fuck the Russians.

If they are unable to understand the country they live in and how much they have been lied to throughout history, then tough.

They can live without foreign travel, without modern consumer goods.

[MarkRet]

Since the Soviet breakup, the only country that has been aggressive to it’s neighbors has been Russia, and Russia more or less was in the drivers seat during Soviet times, so I’d say it’s not unfair.

[kuladiamond]

Thats because while russia likes to pretend its not soviet union anymore, pretty much everyone knows it still does the same shitty things, name might change but the idea is still there.

[Dargil]

I do not. Much of their leadership are old Apparats frim the USSR, like Putin.

[CaptainSmartass]

It is a bit. And it seems that Putin wants to bring it back, because he's gone completely Radio Rental.

Simples...

[maverick2022]

No. The same people are still in power in Russia. When people talk about Putin wanting to bring back the Soviet Union, it would not be hard.

[TallAnon]

Nope, don't give a fuck. Especially now Russia is bombing innocent civilians, fuck em.

[OddBeMe]

No, since it was pretty dominant in their culture 30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

No, based on their current government and its behavior, I think it's a very fair comparison.

[Andres77]

When Putin is gone it won't happen as often...😉

[Telekinetic-Potato]

The Russians I know don't think so

[KrakenAttackin]

Not at all. Russia was the driver of the USSR.

[fireforeffect]

Nope.

[Anonymous]

Nope.