As a Canadian, I feel like I should point out that you're pretty fortunate to live in a country where your people place a high value on freedom, liberty, and justice. In your country there are men and women who are willing to fight for it, where as in Canada these ideals are just lip service and empty words.
Unlike the American flag, ours is pretty devoid of any meaningful symbolism (not unlike the one you're proposing), and was largely decided for us by the British colonial powers. The maple leaf was chosen because it was pretty and agreeable, and didn't upset tensions between the British and French colonialists who were living here at the time. The red bands on either side represent the east and west coast, while the white background represents the expanse of Canada that lies in the middle. The color red was chosen for similarly inclusive reasons, but largely because it was reminiscent of the Red Ensign, which the British monarchy approved of. So essentially our flag represents inclusivity through forced neutrality, under the supervision of the British monarchy, from coast to coast. Welcome to the land of the free.
But hey, at least our flag looks pretty.
That's why I'm quite honestly confused and bewildered that you'd want change the American flag (which not only looks really good, but has some pretty fantastic symbolism involved with it) to something that is so aesthetically ugly and demoralizing.
As a Canadian, who lives in a country dominated by the 'politically correct', 'woke' movement, and has suffered greatly from the effects it's had on our society, it amazes me how much you take your country for granted.
In 'my' country, there's only two political parties that are actually big enough to take office, the Liberals and the Progressive Conservatives. Regardless of who you vote for, you effectively vote for the same 'woke', globalist policies since both parties simply abandon their original platforms once their elected, and continue to run in that direction regardless of what their constituents believe or what they were original promised. And don't even get me started about how broken our minority government system is, and the endless non-confidence voting associated with it. In 'my' country, you can't be successful or contribute to the good of the country without being penalized for it. If you do, you just get hit with even higher income tax rates, which makes it near impossible for potential business owners and entrepreneurs to survive in our broken economy, giving them no real incentive to try. That money the government takes then gets spent on 'welfare' programs that encourage people to sit at home and do nothing, on a 'free' medical system that only medicates symptoms rather than treating real issues (after you have to wait about 3 months just to even be accessed), or donated to 'woke' movement groups who spout nonsense like what you're suggesting. Or it's embezzled into other similar NGOs, and sent off to only God knows where, under the guise of promoting 'reproductive health' and 'gender equality' in foreign countries. In 'my' country, when people decided they were fed up with our government's overreach during the Trucker Rally and decided occupy Parlament Hill in Ottawa, they all disbanded after one person was trampled by a horse. All it took was for one person to get injured and the entire movement of approximately 2 million people just collapsed. That's our legacy. Cowardice at the moment of confrontation, and 'inclusivity' through forced neutrality. In your country, men and women alike have fought hard, lost everything they had, and even died for the freedoms you have the privilege of taking for granted. I wish I was as blessed and as fortunate to live in a country as great as yours, where people actually stand for liberty and justice. But hey, if your 'inclusivity' rhetoric doesn't work out for you in your country, you could always move to Canada. You'd probably like it here.
Although American and Canadians are fundamentally same Anglo North American culture, with border states having far more in common with each-other north-south than the rest of their respective federations east-west. Institutionally the main difference reflected in our different political systems. Your truckers were in fact quite brave, that they left when Canada's federal leaders started utilizing truly authoritarian powers against them. Was an eye opener about the very precarious nature of the Canadian political system in regard to how much unaccountable power it invest in just 1 set of people, who tend to be controlled by a largely uniform political minority.
If said minority had ever decided it didn't want to stand for elections again, or it wanted said elections to be a shame, there doesn't seem to be a lot practically standing in their way. So Canada's existence as a free country very much depends upon its homogeneous cultural commitment to democracy. Yet this tendency toward authority is also the defining issue of Canada that founded said country separate from it's otherwise largely identical American counterparts.
As eluded to America was founded upon the idea of individual liberty being the objective. Our founders unlike most countries in history very much distrusted authority and built political system designed to check its abuses. 200+ years of power hungry politician beating upon them on those systems have been dramatically broken down, but the memory and underlining principal is still exist.
You overstate the strength of much of our population's political commitment to liberty, a great many people in this country would tolerate and cheer a Trudo type figure. The difference is what we can and eventually will do about it practically.
From my experience in 2nations and perpetually-ongoing research on multiple nations, I've only detected 2 common reasons for flag-changes among nations: ● changes in/replacement of government/constitution & ● territorial acquisition.
There could be other sound, established reasons in other jurisdictions, but simply changing the flag & its implications (the extra expenses of reviewing and updating the official seals, icons, logos, etc. across departments, agencies, programs, etc.), both inside the jurisdiction, as well as in other nations (especially in other jurisdictions, especially where such symbolism can be controversial, even illegal, and possibly diplomatic dispute-inducing with implications of trade & jobs) is ridiculous. The cost-benefit analysis of the decision just overwhelmingly falls onto the "ripoff"-side.
Likewise, aren't U. S. flags supposed to be 13stripes (the original States), not 6?
Are certain founding-States to be de-legitimized? Or is the original meaning to be abandoned and replaced outright, with the founding-States with their efforts & sacrifices to for the Union no longer to be honored with each flag?
"200 hundred years of tradition" is a poor argument, it was thousands of years of tradition of owning other people as slaves, and thousands of years of tradition of having monarchies. It was TENS of thousands of years of tradition of taking land from others by force to claim for themselves, in fact it was THAT tradition that brought forth the United States. All of these traditions are far older than our country, which is still YOUNG on the world stage. 200 years is nothing, and tradition shouldn't dictate the future, "thoughtful best practices" should. This country, in large part, was born from breaking traditions.
That being said, changing a symbol that represents a country that has a tendency of bigotry, closemindedness, and exclusiveness, will not fix these problems, it is just "rebranding". If you want to make the country more inclusive, and for the world to know it is inclusive, and for the flag to represent that inclusiveness, then change the problems with the country, not the branding. The flag is only a symbol, people determine what it represents.
Slavery only started in a few northern states in 1619... Unless your referring to the whole history of the institution globally in which case your talking 10s of thousands of years on every inhabited continent. In that case the only thing unique about European civilization is that they managed to end it for the last time.
@monorprise actually, slavery in the United States hasn't COMPLETELY ended, there was a carve out made in the amendment that supposedly ended it, one that is constantly exploited and overlooked. Europe may be further along, but I wouldn't say "for good", never doubt the evil of man.
why don't you ask African or Asian countries to change THEIR flags to include more diversity? why is diversity only being pushed and such a big thing in western countries like the US, Canada, some European countries, etc? i hardly see anything "diverse" about the rest of the world. in fact, in some parts of the world, if a white person is to go there, people literally rudely stare and take pictures like they've never seen such a human in their whole life. yet the US and western countries are being criticized 24/7 about "diversity." why don't you appreciate the history and culture of the country you live in? if you want diversity, go to the country your parents were born in and you can preach your diversity lessons there.
Leave my flag alone! There's more than 200 years of tradition in that flag and I;m not changing it because some is rpeatig some lame diversity line that they learned from a CNN/MSNBC online seminar abut how to talk if you're young and cool. People DIED for that flag so leave it the fuck alone!
The red represents the blood that was spilled and the white stripes symbolize freedom. And the star banner represents the 50 states that housed all the men and women who made those sacrifices.
What an absurdly distant from propose and history idea...
There exist in practice only one form of diversity of consequence when it comes to politics and that is political diversity.
Whatever else you believe on any subject outside of that sphere which has been claimed by politics is entirely ill-relevant to the body politics and the institutions which practice it.
The American flag is designed to tell a story of history and political nature of the political union for which it stands. The 13 strips red and white stood for the 13 different original colonies (not the about 4 million people) that fraught together for independence.
The 50 starts represent the 50 present states, not 330 million people that compose the federal union. This is already a flag of diversity as is the "national moto" E pluribus unum – Latin for "Out of many, one".
But this diversity no more relates to ideas of sex, race, or personal preferences of any sort than the common constitutions mentions such.
I almost feel like this is a trick question only asked to make LGBT or their progressive allies look ridiculous. I am gay myself (I just stumbled on this site somehow I realize I'm not the target audience lol), and I'm also a leftist. Yet I would never in a million years imagine suggesting the US change its national flag to rainbow colors, nor do I know anyone who would suggest it, whether gay or straight or ultra progressive or anything. The idea is patently absurd. National flags represent entire nations. The rainbow flag isn't a national flag, it's a pride flag. The 13 stripes on the US flag indicate the original colonies and the stars indicate the states. Like, maybe if literally every heterosexual person left the US and only LGBT people were left, then it might make a little sense. But if we have to imagine an absurd hypothetical to make it seem anything but an insane idea, then that says all we need to know. If the person who posted this did so in earnest, and was serious... then I apologize for accusing you... but this seems like a disingenuous and homophobic question made to make it seem like gay people actually think like this.
We need more people like you man. Seriously, some of your fellow gay or lesbian people are absolutely insane. At least there’s comfort knowing we have some people in the LBG community that have some common sense and are reasonable
WTF... new generations with their pathetic shit are ruining the world. "I'm offended by everything" "eliminate these songs from the past because they hurt our feelings" "eliminate these movies because we feel offended" "make gay little kid movies because kids need to know they can have sex with anyone" "girls lets show our nipples" "lets put rainbows on everything yay!" "Lets all be fat don't shame us because it hurts" "ban all fit models from clothing and lingerie stores because it hurts our feelings"
Future of colorful retards showing their nipples and exposing sexual preference to little kids while allowing them to be fat (which exposes them to many illnesses).
Maybe the flag will be rainbow 🌈 and 🌟 when all the gay people get off their asses and join the military and fight and die in wars. This includes females. This will never happen though. The thought of you even asking this question makes me sick to my stomach! Queers are boring! So, instead of changing our blessed USA 🇺🇸 flag, why don't you and all the other queers that believe like you just move somewhere where you belong - like Siberia!
Hell no! Don’t you dare make changes because or your feelings! The American flag flies in the air for our rights as the American people. It flies to remind us all what our present heroes have done for us all. We have fought so long and so hard to get where we are today. It’s a sign to other invaders not to mess with us when that flag flies. I salute the flag daily because of our heroes. You all would not be here today if the events in the past were changed. The American flag doesn’t fly in the air to respect your community it flies to the people of American not just your community you have your own flag fine I don’t care. You can have it. You all have it made and now your abusing that privilege by forcing your ideals and your feelings onto the American people we all do not support the lgbt community because we all have our rights and our beliefs. If I’m against then I’m against it. That’s my life and my opinion and Im free to live it and say it. That’s my right. Get over it!
I must say no, I don't believe that we should just throw away the history of our flag or ignore the honor and sacrifice so many of our troops have made defending it. Everything on our flag stands for something and deserves to be recognized and remembered for its ideals. The stars and the stripes each relate to our country's past and present, they are representative of us, our nation as a whole. I feel to change it out of boredom or adjust its concept is not a justifiable reason and fails to remember the spirit that went into its design over the history of our country. JMHO
Hell, the fuck, no! SMH Just because inclusivity and diversity is a good thing doesn’t mean it can’t be corrupted. Good things are easily corrupted. Especially if it’s been around for a long time without ending at a point and picking up anew at a new point. And even then it still is in danger of corruption. Why let something corrupt take over just because it’s insinuation is good? The devil likes to pretend he is good when the Devil’s true intentions are evil. It’s easy for a leftist and women to fall for the devil’s lies because the devil fills them with warm fuzzy feelings in order to get his way which will ultimately lead to our destruction.
"More inclusive" than what? More that ALL fifty states and the citizens therein? More than ONE nation, joining all those states together for mutual defense and prosperity?
No, thanks, I think our flag covers everyone - no exclusions. INDIVIDUALS can choose to opt out of being American - that's their RIGHT because of our Constitution. But our flag isn't excluding any citizen.
Ironically it was somewhat debatable whether or not the Federal Constitution created a single "nation" or "country" as many of the founders believed it did not. That of course very much defends upon what people think the word "nation" or "country" means. By many forign definitions we are still not such a single "nation" or "country".
@monorprise My understanding is we're fifty sovereign states, all "united" for the mutual defense and trade and such for each state. I read that most governments at the time were monarchies and by having the one "entity" recognized for the colonies, the monarchies had "someone" they could negotiate with. I'm probably not explaining this very well. But, yes, our colony/state boundaries did NOT disappear so we're not "one" in that sense, but we are "one" in the sense of being united under the Constitution.
Anyway, that's my understanding. I'm not a lawyer or history expert but I do love history.
@SweetFyter You don't need to be a lawyers to pick what a word means to you. Nor does any one set of politicians in a Constitutional system of civil Government get the sole word on the meaning of said Constitution, or that Constitution would be as meaningless in practice. This is true whether that politician wears a suit or a black robe.
@SweetFyter Unfortunately there will always be politicians in black robes. This is a result of the nature of power and inherently limited accountability.
Different political systems try to address this issue in different ways, many like parliamentary systems tend to just subordinate the judicial branch. The American system as originally designed was suppose to create a system of checks and balances. Recognizing that thou the judge (magistrates) were inherently political actors either independent or as pawns of others. They could in their capacity if given only negative power act as a check upon other political actors, who likewise welded the same power.
With the idea being all separate parties playing a role had to agree, thus checks and balances.
This of course broke down completely when we assumed their 'last word' meant 'sole word'. A grammatical switch which took the negative power of mere non-cooperation and made it a positive power to give orders as dictators we have today.
That is what I meant by nobody can ever have the 'sole' word on the Constitution of civil Government.
@SweetFyter Of course please take your time. This is one of the most overlooked concepts in American constitutional theory.
Not only is it logically unavoidable, because if it were possible to trust anyone with such absolute power, we wouldn't need a constitution in the first place. Its actually stated quite plainly even in the case they still site as the origin Madison vs. Marbury (1803) where the federalist run court under John Marshal decided it had power to define the meaning of the Federal Constitution as necessary to do its job.
John Marshal supported William Marbury believing he had the right to the writ to be a judge which James Madison (Thomas Jefferson's Secretary of State) had denied him. His ruling however recognize the court did not have the power to force Thomas Jefferson's executive branch to give William Marbury the writ allowing him to be a judge.
So technically is true, the Federal Supreme court has the last word on the constitution simply because they have the last word in the due process of law. But that is not the same as having the only word. This difference is as illustrated everything to the existence of a Constitutional system.
Without it, John Marshal federalist (or any court majority) could have run the country ordering around everyone as a supreme oligarchs. With it, Thomas Jefferson and his Democratic-republican congress simply could not do anything to anyone without consent of all parties that it is constitutionally legitimate.
Thus William Marbury never got his writ.
The really interesting question for which the next Constitutional system will need to address is why we are allowing the court to dictate law to non-parties of the law.
Answer this question and you will have found a way to restore Constitutional order.
@monorprise OK, it's been a long day for me and now I read your latest. Now my head hurts. I can't quote court cases so I have no response. Plus, I still have to re-read it a couple times. But... right now I think a glass of iced tea on the porch seems like my best plan (it's almost 60º!!!).
There are lots of countries, particularly in the 3rd world which have long ideological symbolism on their flags standing of equality, fraternity, non-discrimination etc. But actually, they have dictatorial and discriminatory governments and societies. The design of a flag changes nothing, it's all about the policies and society of a country. Sure, there is discrimination in the US, but remember there are countries where it's literally illegal to be LGBT, or to be of a different religion, or to hold any other political view than the state sanctioned one.
I’m pretty sure the country would have trouble finding common ground on what to change in the flag. Plus the history of the design is so representative of the struggle and aftermath of our country becoming a nation. The blue with the stars representing a new constellation in the night sky with each star representing a state. The 13 stripes for the 13 colonies that declared independence from England. The red and white have meaning as well, so it’s difficult to say that inclusion should be a reason for altering such a rich representation of the initial ideas and struggles that led to the USA
It'd be a sad day in a frozen over hell before something like this would ever occur. Shit like this that is never ending is precisely why the Democratic party is imploding. Keep on talking this kind of crap. Republicans are taking the house and senate in the midterms, then you will cry some more, and Trump will be more popular than ever, and you sad sacks will be so depressed you will have wished The Potato and Heels Up Harris never stole the election in the first place. You will have wished Trump got his 8 years. America will be Saved.
@8Bit_LYNX What good is GAG politics when you can't bash libtards? It didn't escalate quickly, it's been a thing since douche bags voted in Obama. Most folks are good hearted. Some are just too radical.
No it shouldn't be changed because its always represented this country and is a symbol of America. Every country has their own flag that represents them or their own culture so they can be proud and represent their own country by staying where their from or carrying some sort of clothing , token, small flag or whatever they feel necessary to fly their colors. You dont go alter national symbols to be diverse! Totally unpatriotic!
No it shouldn’t change there are two major top reasons why 😳 1. The flag is about the United States which tbh navy is using this flag to serve the country. 2. as wrong as this sounds to some people but there are some who don’t agree to the lgbtq rights even if you are pushing it..
How about we stop being so obsessed with externalization of happiness to every little detail must conform to our narcisstic needs (i. e. you [I'm psychic] didn't consider any position other than yours to get a full picture before deciding you want it inclusive, such as considering positive reason it might want to be non-inclusive, because this doesn't FEEL good (feelings are facts) to consider benefits of something being non-inclusive, therefore rendering the question moot before any FULL assessment of the issue is made.
FUCK NO! Do not Change the Flag. The flag is all inclusive as is we do not need our flag to look like a party favor. Just a little over 1% want to change the flag who the hell are the 1% what about the other 99% what they want. The alphabet people have their party favor flag they rally around , leave mine alone
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Anonymous
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HELL NO! Number one this a really ugly flag Number two not everyone is gay and so shoving a pride flag down their throats is just bad Number three gay people are definitely minority Number four this flag is disrespectful to our actual flag Number five it gets rid of a lot of the symbolism that comes with the original stripes (each one representing one of the original 13 colonies) Number six the flag we have now works fine
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Opinion Owner
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And before anyone tells me that homophobic or don't know anything about being gay
I'm bi That's right I like men Not all men But some men
But I don't want anyone to know I'm bi though so I usually just tell people I'm straight
No. Hell no. I don't have a problem with gay folks or any in the middle but I guess I have the fear of someone brandishing that flag... then gets shot in the process because misunderstood.
No. It already represents everyone. Stop trying on changing things when you don't know the real history behind it. Do you know how may people that have died under the USA flag? How about you serve your country as in join the military first before you try to have an imput on the flag.
Here's a genuine answer: No, stoning was the prescribed method of execution in the Torah. Sentences of burning at stake was more common in Medieval Europe, which is geographically & culturally distinct from the ancient Middle East.
So out of curiosity, would it be considered hateful if someone burned it like they do to the current one or would it still be free speech to throw it in a bonfire?
Not at all. It should only change when something as big as adding a new state or something else of that degree. America has always been a melting pot. Not just that but rainbow flags frankly don't look that good. Contrasting colors result in a much better design.
I just watched a GenZ/woke cringe video, here we go again... all you "woke" LGBTQ and self entitled dorks get off your tiktok, stop believing you're something special or whining bickering how bad everyone is. Do something productive, work, and stop creating artificial problems or being offended by every little thing. Grow up! Also do your math and look actually how small the percentage of gay/lesb/trans actually is.
No it shouldn't. The red represents our peoples valor. The white represents our peoples purity, the blue represents our people perseverance. The stars represent the states and the 13 stripes the original 13 colonies. These are American values. Valor, purity and perseverance. Your diversity can shove it.
it doesn't represent any race now, why would we want to change that? sounds like a recipe for divisive and unwanted fighting... Red, White and Blue No race, just the promise of Freedom and Liberty and Life for all... why would you want to INSERT race? by the way who are the "Blue People?"
What's uninclusive about red, white and blue? It seems to me that using colors to represent different races and sexual preferences would symbolize divisiveness, not unity.
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Asker
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it's only 2 colors. the rainbow flag has more. are you color blind or stupid?
When did I mention two colors, dumb ass? The U. S. flag has "three" colors. Plus, how many Americans want their flag to say that this country is LGBTQ and only represents a small, fringe, sexually defective element of society? Fuck that. I'm all for accepting everyone, but they can be part of society, not dominate it.
No it shouldn't be changed because the flag represents including everyone already even though the people that live within the boundaries of the flag do not always accept each other.
The flag represents freedom for all and does allow freedom for all. Unfortunately some people think it's freedom for all... that agree with me... Those people are wrong.
We need to change ourselves not an inanimate object.
By a research of two years ago that I read on the internet, nearly half of Americans are racists and homophobes. Such change can happen and will go smoothly only when the percentage of racists and homophobes is reduced to 10% or less. If you change the flag now, I'm pretty sure you'll see the turmoil of the Capitol on Jan 6th 2021, only multiplied a thousandfold throughout the whole country.
It is inclusive as it Is.. It's ALLinclusive because it stands for liberty and justice for ALL. Not all that can fit their color on this flag or all 19,000 genders that we create or all 19 subhuman species that we dream up. The word ALL is as inclusive as it can get. White signifies purity and innocence. Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue… signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice.”.
No, it’s missing the black and brown stripes as well as the pink/white/baby blue stripes. Seriously, the US government flies the rainbow flag at US embassies. They don’t need public support to adopt a new flag.
You've got to me kidding me. You've got a problem with the flag? Wow. We have one of the most diverse populaces on the planet yet we aren't "inclusive" enough. Wow.
It looks like a joke. Im sure other countries already think of us as a joke. At the same time, i haven't paid attention to the flag since i graduated HS so i dont really care what color it becomes or what it stands for
Modern America doesn't deserve Old Glory. Change it to a Tide Pod and a nose snorting a condom. Reflects the current generation's stupidity level. Also, depravity isn't diversity. Even if the depraved keep trying to market it as such.
I think you put to much thought into a flag no one cares about anyway. Flags of countries are pretty redundant to anyone who just goes by living their life outside of basically world sports if your a fan of that in the first place.
No. As Liberal as I am, let thr ugly flag remain the ugly flag. If you change it some asshole is gonna start killing people. The nation is polarized enough as is.
Country flags represent history, not what gender turns someone on. Anyone who wants their country to change flag based on who they're attracted to doesn't sound very inclusive.
No. Our flag should stay red, white and blue! 7 red stripes and 6 white stripes for the original 13 colonies and 50 white stars in blue for our 50 states.
Anyone who wants to change the look of our Star Spangled Banner should leave America! Screw you and screw the others who want it changed! It’s should be Stars and Stripes and stay The Stars and Stripes Forever!
And every time our national anthem is playing and reciting the pledge of allegiance, every single American and person living in America should stand on their feet and have their right hand placed over their heart. And we say, “One nation under God!” Millions of Americans died for this flag and they fought to keep this nation free. May this Star Spangled Banner forever wave! I don’t care who it offends!
No, absolutely not. The gays literally only make up 3% of the population. Our flag is fine the way it is. That thing looks hideous.
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Anonymous
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I know this is trolling. But I’m really starting to think America is being taken over by religious fanatics. The woke cult has all the hallmarks of a secular religion taking complete control. Hopefully people figure it out before it’s too late.
NO, it is not Boring, and no it is not outdated. It has thirteen stripes to represent the original thirteen Colonies and a star for every state in the Republic. It is a Grand old Flag, that deserves respect
@NetoTheSouth look up modern day slave labor in Africa and Asia. Huge companies exploit the people in those countries paying them little to nothing, recently companies like nestle just won a child slavery law suit ! They are getting away with their exploitation of human beings and the propaganda’s media doesn’t want people to know. That’s exactly why tucker Carlson went on national television around the time the nestle lawsuit was found out and did that how dumb ass sexy mnm thing
No it's not. You're literally and actively supporting it economically, and by relationship, conceptually. Some might even argue you're perpetuating it.
@crmoore again, That’s such a liberal thing to think.. I as one person am not contributing much to Americas economy. Me leaving america isn’t going to effect america in any meaningful way so your idea of telling me to leave america to stop supporting it is not only nonsensical and racist.. but it’s also counter intuitive since america exploits several other countries abroad including my parents home country ?
As of now, no, you're not contributing much. But once you join the job force and move out on your own, you will be.
Saying "me leaving America isn't going to effect America in any meaningful way" is like saying "as a thief, if I were to stop robbing people, it wouldn't effect the robbery rates in any meaningful way." Just because supporting bad things and then no longer supporting bad things results in a neglible reduction of bad things doesn't mean doing bad things is okay.
And considering that race has yet to be mentioned or has had any sort of relevance to this discussion, I'd be interested in hearing exactly how you think this is in any way racist.
And I think you're misusing the term counterintuitive. But either way, I don't think your point stands. Whether America exploits other countries doesn't refute the point that supporting America is bad. In fact, it might even bolster that point. You're supporting a country that exploits other countries, including your parent's home country.
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