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You can have your religious freedoms, so long as your religious views and ideas are the same as mine. But the moment they are not I will weaponize the government to take away your religious freedoms. That is the perfect way to sum up the religious aspects of the abortion debate. It also sums up a lot of the religious debates in the US since it's founding. Because it does not matter what people spin it. Many don't want true religious freedom. Because they really want religious freedom under their terms. Making their idea of religious freedom hypocritical.
While I personally think the constitution needs reform, it isn't reasonable to say "well its my religion so I can do it." Because if me and thousands of other people agree that it's our religion to go stab people every Sunday, you can't just be like "that's constitutionally protected, sorry officers/government." That's being said, I don't think abortion is comparable to that, I'm simply stating that just because it's in a religion doesn't mean it's protected (and that should be explicitly clarified in a constitutional reform).
The Satanic Temple derives off the belief in yourself over believing in any sort of god (or even satan as a deity. They just view him as symbolism) That if you believe in your own will you have the right to an abortion.
Either way, both sides are becoming crybabies over this abortion stuff. Im not losing shit over it because yes i do believe people have a right to do it but it doesn't mean that i would do it. Its an individual perspective.
Gee, why am I not at all surprised by this? Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... ocking!
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34Opinion
And they're free to attempt to do exactly that even though everybody knows the "satanic temple" is made up entirely of atheists who think they're being edgy by opposing Christianity and Judaism to comical extremes and shouldn't be treated as anything more than a joke in a sane society. Roe v Wade getting overturned doesn't make abortions illegal; it just hands the issue over to the states like it was prior to 1973. Want to kill unborn babies? Don't do it in Texas or Kentucky; go to Oregon or Massachusetts where they'll probably give you a buy one, get one free offer and kill your grandparent too.
Yes I knew, a friend is a member.
i still stand by the fact that religion should not be the basis for decisions like abortions.
There is likely one complete fuckwit going to mention instant of conception etc.
The Decision on abortion needs to be medical, legal, and zero religion allowed in to the decision making process.
How many of these religious lot would change their mind if it was possible to scan for LGBT ‘genes’ and then know their son would not come out as gay at 13. When of course they would disown him and kick him out of house or even kill him…
(I know you can’t and it’s not).
Critical Jewish scholars also argued since the 11th century that a) the mother’s life is always more important than any fetus, b) the fetus isn’t a person until actual birth (for 40 days since conception it is simply regarded as ‘fluid’), and c) abortion is mandated under some circumstances.
Religion can't be practiced however one pleases when such beliefs conflict with the law, if killing babies in the womb is made illegal by a state, it's a crime.
Satanists also practice cannibalism on live victims and routine sexual assault but those are both illegal as they should be
No they don't. I mean unless you are referring to like a cult but those typically are not recognized religions. There is even a God sanctioned abortion ritual in the bible. Numbers 5:11-31... so...
@Snsl153 her husband gets jealous and suspicious, so he takes her to a priest whom he pays, the priest prays and writes stuff on a scroll that makes her drink “bitter water” that will force her to misscarry if she is pregnant, and just really sick if she isn’t. … sounds like a ritual to me
@Subarugirl. Sounds like a "Plan B" to me.
@KrakenAttackin something you will never have to take
@Subarugirl. "something you will never have to take", no but I will live an average of five years less than you, have more chronic injuries and illnesses, and a plethora or other things we have discussed before.
@KrakenAttackin and you will never face the risk of dying in child birth.
@Subarugirl. A+ for deflection, F for solid answers.
Freedom of religion means the government doesn't make laws or establishes laws according to any religion or forces anyone into any religion, not that you could make up any silly or immoral and criminal ideals and hide behind your religion.
The satanic temple can go to hell. Their B. S. complaint won't be respected and just ignored.
Oh you mean like Christianity, yeah that makes sense
So satanist’s human sacrifice has finally gone public? It will be great theater to see how this all plays out.
Oh shut up there’s literally an abortion ritual in the Bible. Maybe read up on numbers chapter 5 verse 11 through 21
Ouch. Good luck responding to that one, @Sixgunsound.
We had this conversation already. I’m not interested in what your mythology books say, they have no bearing on empirical reality.
@nachosaresexy luck has nothing to do with it mate
@Snsl153
He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord (S) and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering (T) and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry
@Snsl153 that will force the termination of a pregnancy
It’s billed as a test of the woman’s loyalty, not a purposeful decision to do an abortion. It is written obscurely enough to allow for the possibility of the pregnancy to continue. It also requires that it be done by a Rabbi. So even taking your source at face value it does not qualify your position.
The meaning of the physical effects of the curse (“your abdomen swell and your thigh rot”) is debated by scholars. The Hebrew word beten (“abdomen”) means “womb” in every one of its other ten occurrences in the Torah. The term “thigh” may be a euphemism for the procreative organs (Gen 24:2, 9). Since v 28 says the innocent wife will be able to bear children we should understand the punishment to involve the reverse. The guilty wife will not be able to beget children. That includes any child she might be carrying...
That is an awfully intense set of confirmation-bias driven mental gymnastics, even for you…
Not at all but if you are having difficulty understanding I would be more than happy to simplify it.
There’s no difficulty at all. Your argument is weak to the point of non-existence based on evidence you demonstrably either don’t understand or conveniently misinterpret in your favor. I believe this is referred to as ‘scraping the bottom of the barrel’ and still coming up empty.
How am I misinterpreting it... enlighten me
See my post starting with “it’s billed as”.
If you can't just say so. No shame in admitting you're wrong.
You're right, there is "no shame in admitting you're wrong". Does the text of the passage come across to you as being in any way an actual medical procedure, or could what's described actually induce an abortion? What, exactly, is the magical substance that supposedly accomplishes this? Do you have any idea? I ask because I don't.
Remember, back then they didn't have pills that could bring about a termination, because medicine was practically non-existent. Snake-oil salesman would try to sell people supposed cures for baldness and old age, but they never - not once - actually worked.
I already did state my position. Stalling for time just delays the inevitable, and exposes the weakness of your argument. Your assertion that Numbers states the guilty wife will miscarry if an ancient Hebrew mystic ritual makes her is not even relevant to this discussion, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up. Do you have anything besides appeal to authority, appeal to emotion, or telling me to shut up to add yo the discussion? It’s ok if you don’t, but can you please bring something more substantive or relevant to our next debate? I do so enjoy them, as well as helping people improve their debate skills.
@Sixgunsound "It’s billed as a test of the woman’s loyalty, not a purposeful decision to do an abortion. It is written obscurely enough to allow for the possibility of the pregnancy to continue."
That's an impressively ignorant interpretation.
Jealous husband accuses wife of gettin around, so it's on the wife to drank some poison and see what happens.
And then you accuse others of bias and mental gymnastics. Heh.
@nachosaresexy I stand by everything I’ve ever written here, and have neither the time nor crayons to explain it further for you. I’ve already stated I have no loyalty to or hate on for anyone’s mythology books. That is a face value cold read.
@Sixgunsound I think the few of us in this silly discussion can agree about the overall general silliness of ancient texts, supposedly inspired by skybeard.
You accused others of bias and mental gymnastics, then one upped that person with your own embarrassingly ignorant interpretation in some ridiculously circular argument.
@Sixgunsound ya like guns and big trucks and don't like womans havin no abortions. right on, bruh.
@nachosaresexy I’m still waiting for the specific quote you disagree with. Vague hints add nothing to the discussion. What other than putting the ass in assume is your second post meant to accomplish? You know nothing about me.
Doesn't surprise me. The killing of an innocent life is evil so it would make sense that Satanists would support it. Would also make sense that misandristic women like you would support something evil.
In what context is terminating a pregnancy considered evil?
Preventing a soul created by god to enter this world. It's a total slap in the face to God himself! God says no other gods yet women are playing God. Or at least trying to continue to keep playing God
Your god lays out an abortion ritual in his Bible or did you just miss Numbers 5:11-31
What Bible are you reading?
Last I checked Numbers was still part of the Bible
That only applies if the woman who has a husband ends up impregnated by a man who isn't her husband. In which case the husband would most definitely want either an abortion or a divorce. It is mutually agreed upon and not just the woman's decision like you Satanists intend it to be.
Nope, just if he suspects infidelity, no proof necessary
not sure why you're so in love with the verses of Numbers, seeing as those were written during a time when people lived under the Law of Moses, which we are no longer living under since Christ's time. But it's nice to know you're so big into Satanism. That explains a lot. 🙄
Come back when you’re ready to not hide behind anonymity
That's as laughable as a hitchhicker killing serial killer demanding roads be made "safer".
No one takes the satanic temple seriously anyway.
Except the government and IRS
Did you know the DNC is controlled by the Satanic Temple?
Yeap I know. Our religion allows it too, and we can easily adopt it as part of our rites.
I met a young woman who hated her mom. Her mom smoked crack before she was born, and the daughter ended up with tons of mental problems. But I guess it's her mom's body and her choice. At least that's what I keep hearing.
Please tell me where it is written in the constitution about abortion or anything about legal right to have an abortion is a constitutional right or can be denied under the constitutional law I would like to know
Okay? They're going to hell with the same people who rape and kill women everyday, why want that endorsement?
Which people? You talking about the priests or soldiers?
Whatever causes enough butthurt? Also Hi, from my new alt!
No I didn't in fact not know this that's kind of interesting actually
Lmao of course Satanists love abortion.
It's legal human sacrifice
y'all will burn forreal🤣👉🔥
Religious conviction is not above the law. I don't think abortion laws have something to do with religion.
I figure there will be all kinds of ways to get an abortion
I believe that women who have abortions belong in a satanic setting.
You just gonna ignore the ones that were performed in the bible too? Or are those okay because god said to do it.
@Subarugirl. The Bible is a mess, with different versions, various interpretations of key words etc. The Bible was written by men.
Do you think God wants abortion?
God killed his own baby and thousands of others, he didn't have to do any of that if he didn't want to.
@Subarugirl. No, but God is GOD. He also flooded the earth (an option not available to us no matter how badly it's needed). You look at your Son and still support abortion? Biden supports abortion up until the moment of birth (per Jen Psaki), do you agree?
I support an adults right to chose. It’s easy to speak about matter that you will never have to experience.
@Subarugirl. Do you support an "adults right to choose" right up until the moment of birth?
I support bodily autonomy. I support the concept that a human being cannot be forced to sacrifice their body, health or life for the sake of another.
That is their choice to make that sacrifice if they decide to.
@Subarugirl. So you are OK with the doctor inserting a spike into the babies skull and sucking it's brains out a moment before birth? A simple yes or no.
Big talk for someone who has never been pregnant. Are you okay with people being forced let others use their organs against their will? Simple yes or no?
Nice deflection, you first.
I think that is between the woman and her doctor. I don’t get to decide what medical procedure another adult gets, and no one else should be able to either.
Your turn
"between a woman and her doctor", that's a BS deflection. I will do the same -- forced organ donation should be balanced between individual liberties and compelling state interest. See how that works?
So you think it should be up to the state. Great
And you believe a child 4 seconds before birth is just a "lump of cells" and can be killed, without a problem.
That ought to be interesting, since they are a recognized Church by the IRS in the USA! LOL
Now I’m not the most religious person and I don’t support the overturning of Roe vs Wade but I don’t know if I can get behind a group of Satanists
Yep, and also one of their laws is to do no harm to children.
Lucky a fetus isn’t a child until at least 3 months
There is also a law saying that no one can use your body against your will, the while holding autonomy. That’s why you can’t be forced to donate organs
I doubt that is going to influence the Supreme Court’s decision…
Clever, I like it... BUT women should have the Right... without needing to join a religeon
So you would have to join their religion to get an abolition. lol
Interesting. But how does one come across this information. Not a thing on my google search’s.
Well since abortion is evil, it makes sense.
It’s evil according to what? The Bible? Because the Bible clearly lays out an abortion ritual and numbers chapter 5 verse 11 through 31. Not to mention all of this baby is that God commanded his people to slaughter
Evil according to anyone who thinks murder is wrong. Sorry you struggle with those concepts.
To murder someone means that you have to kill a living human
The consent of evil is a Christian concept anyways
I really feel bad for you. You’re a damaged human being.
If damaged you mean I don’t feel like I have the right to forcing people into sacrificing their bodies and lives for someone else against their will, but if you do, by all means..
No, you’re an emotionally damaged sad little girl.
So you believe in people being forced to sacrifice their bodies and their lives against their will and you think I’m damaged… wow
You are. Hopefully one day you’ll find peace and happiness and don’t end up alone and bitter at 40, hooked on antidepressants
Oh my husband, my son and are are doing great and all very happy, but thank you for your concerns though it’s unnecessary
How? Do they do child sacrifices?
They don’t
Sadly I have turned to Satanism. Happy Christians?
Which country does this?
Nice going. No, since I'm not American.
but does the part of Trump know this
Satan is not a god. Satan is a created being.
@Snsl153
Jesus is God. He is the Son of God and is one with God the Father.
They are three-in-one with God the Holy Spirit. The Son was with the Father in the beginning and is God. Jesus is eternal and is not a created being. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one and are eternal. They existed always and will exist forever.
@Snsl153
You are a minion of Satan. One of Satan's Thralls. Satan believes in Jesus Christ, and The ultimate power Jesus has over Satan. You too will come to realize this. Your only hope is that you do not cone to realize it too late.
@Snsl153
No, you have only proved that you do not.
If God is some kind of weird "trinity", then why is there no evidence whatsoever for the idea to be found in the Old Testament, and in the New it's so vague as to be practically non-existent? Why is the only solid evidence for the Trinity (the Johannine Comma, 1 John 5:7) an interpolation that was shoved into the main body of the text at a much, much later date?
@Snsl153
Because you have no faith.
Blessed are those that have not seen yet believe.
@Snsl153
Nope. No heart. No faith. No salvation. I feel sorry for you.
I don't need your misplaced "sympathy". I actually feel sorry for people like you, people who can't think for themselves and instead accept things "on faith". You should never believe anything simply because someone told you so, or because it says so in a book. That is a habit that everyone should have left behind when they turned four years of age.
@Snsl153
You have my sympathy none the less.
So a religion that believes in murder 🤔
Most religions believe in murder. Especially Christianity.
As someone who went to a Christian school for 8 years and read the bible everyday, there is so much murder in the bible. People seem to pretend Christianity is pure and wholesome. It is anything but 🤷🏻♀️ but I suppose that’s just my opinion.
Abortion is even in the bible too and was performed by a priest
16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
Numbers 5:11-31
so? its still in there... its in the christian bible. you can't deny that
oh yeah which passage was it corrected?
Hail Thyself
Yup. I knew it
