Don't you think, the illegals invading the U. S, should at least pass a credit check? Or at least put down a deposit?

[Slingblade1126]

Also, why are they coming here? Don't they have the GAG app? We're the most racist country in the world, correct? We have nothing to offer but Covid and a certain death by an illegal hand gun! Oh, yeah! Capitalism is EVIL! Go to the UK! Or China! Or Australia! Leave my fucking country alone until you pay to get in!!

Updates

+1 y

See! I can troll like the rest of you nut jobs!

Updates

+1 y

My job is done! These guys never read my update within seconds of me posting my question! I love you all! By the way, anybody is welcome to my country! All I ask, is you respect it and realize, we are not as bad as OUR own people make it out to be! We have a heart. Good night all!

[NathanDavis]

not sure where you live but here in Texas... unauthorized immigrants pay at least 30billion dolllars in taxes, every, single, year...

[Avicenna]

Sounds like BS. And how much tax revenue do they consume?

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna does it sound like bullshit to you because of your personal views and refuse to believe it?

or do you actually live here in Texas and can actually prove that is simply not true?

once you clarify that to me, I will see how to answer your other question

[Slingblade1126]

@Avicenna I worked H. R! They can opt out of weekly taxes with a FAKE s. s card. Nice try.

[NathanDavis]

@slingblade1126 and I am employer myself and as such... you still have to withhold and keep record of payroll taxes and SS, whether they are fake numbers or not... so try again

in fact... around 12 billion dollars in paid taxes are collected this way, and it won't matter if they are fake or not because it is the employer who has to do it @Avicenna

[Slingblade1126]

Not only that, but half of the U. S gets pretty much what they paid into the system at the end of the year. Thanks to the greedy top 10%! Are you trying to tell me that illegals are paying in more than they're taking?

[Slingblade1126]

What about Fed tax? Or State tax?

[Avicenna]

I have lived in Texas before, but just because you live there doesn't mean you would know. Maybe you can cite a source for your claim? And since you know everything, how about addressing whether they are net taxpayers? You do know that the IRS won't check into 10 dependents being claimed and that there is a considerable amount of work done off the books, right? Just think about how those fake dependents will affect EITC payments. Of course you do- you know everything by mere dint of living in Texas.

Texans sure does love their slave labor, though.

[NathanDavis]

@slingblade1126 please wait a little

I am actually more interested on @Avicenna response, as I actually consider him someone with an opinion I can respect

[Avicenna]

* Up to 10 dependents

[Slingblade1126]

What does UNAUTHORIZED immigrants even mean? You say they pay 30 billion dollars in taxes every year? How would you possibly know this?

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna see I knew that you knew better and that I could somewhat agree with you

yes, Texas as state does like to take advantage of both illegal and legal immigration, and yes we could see it as some sort of modern slavery workforce

and if you want some figures... there's about 2 billion dollar in expenses a year, for those who are illegal immigrants without a job... and then another close to 10 billion in costs for illegal immigrant workers

so that would a 30 to 12 billion dollars, trade off... it does work very well for the state of Texas, now, I know there is no perfect system but trust me on this... the Republicans in Texas are more than well and happy with the situation as it is right now, if they had an actual problem that is costing them actual money AS A STATE, the Republicans would have changed the laws long long time ago

as for @slingblade1126 your question about Texas' state income tax collection clearly dismisses you as a troll that is just talking nonsense without knowing better

[NathanDavis]

@slingblade1126 please do not keep embarrassing and making a fool out of yourself... let the adults have a nice discussion

[Slingblade1126]

I've been embarrassed many times! Please, embarrass me again. How would you know how much taxes UNAUTHORIZED immigrants would pay into the tax system each year? In the state of Texas. You can't include buying a loaf of bread or perhaps a cup of coffee.

[NathanDavis]

@slingblade1126 that's pretty ironic right there... lol

[Slingblade1126]

It's your number, right? How did you come up with it? You said, "unauthorized immigrants pay at least 30 billion dollars in taxes, every, single, year..." I'm asking, #1: what is an unauthorized immigrant and #2: where did you come up with that number? 30 billion.

[NathanDavis]

@slingblade1126 ffs you are 50... first go educate yourself, and google up how does the State of Texas deals with these things differently than most other states

once you do that... you can come back here and still try to keep up with your bs trolling

[Agagagagaga]

@slingblade1126 Since @NathanDavis never answered your question about the 30 billion and instead provided some weak ass insults, I found this: www.peekandtoland.com/.../

I mean this isn’t anything to celebrate. Of course illegal aliens are still going to be paying taxes. You go into a store and buy sometimes you pay a sales tax, it doesn’t matter what your citizenship is. Same with working some job.

“Texas does not have a State income tax. As a result, its sales and property taxes are higher, and more products and services are taxed. Living and working in Texas INEVITABLY results in the payment of taxes.”

“Another study from a Texas-based organization states that unauthorized immigrants contribute about $32.2 billion per year in taxes. This figure is based on a combination of sales taxes, property taxes, Social Security, and payroll deductions. Even if unauthorized immigrants use a fake Social Security number for employment purposes, their employers still must withhold Social Security and other payroll taxes from their paychecks.”

Frankly I don’t care how much they pay in taxes. That 30 billion dollar figure goes to show how badly the situation has become. That’s a job an American citizen could be doing—and they aren’t sending their money back across the border.

[NathanDavis]

@Agagagagaga again... not insulting him, merely pointing out truths

[NathanDavis]

@Agagagagaga and speaking about jobs that Americans could take... go google up about how there could usually be 100,000 to 200,000 truck drivers that NO AMERICANS want to work...

and, yes... the US hires immigrants to do them

it is not immigrants taking these jobs away... they are just jobs Americans do not want to do

[NathanDavis]

@agagagagaga and another thing to point out on perspective, no... the situation has "not become this bad" the situation has been like that since the 50's over here in Texas

it is nothing new, Republican governments in Texas have never ever had a major issue with legal or illegal immigration, not on the big scheme anyway... they are not losing on the trade off, never have

[Agagagagaga]

Cut the bullshit.

We didn’t have caravans of migrants on the fucking news every day in the 70, 80s, or 90s, and we damn sure didn’t have Haitians swimming across the Rio Grande and huddling under overpasses.

Don’t for a minute act like the problem isn’t getting worse. But maybe you don’t even think it’s a problem. Fuck if I know! 🤷‍♂️

[NathanDavis]

@Agagagagaga that is also true... they did not have to make a political show about it before Trump

but now is a must

before these years, illegal immigrants just would cross the borders without cameras to care, because it was not the Republican platform

also most immigrants do drive through the legal ports of borders, and airports

they have always done that, and they still do that, today...

[NathanDavis]

@agagagagaga now, I have no idea if you live here at the Texas border as well, like I do...

but ever since I've been a teen and into my 20's... I have crossed the border driving without showing any papers, at all... and I have done that with friends and acquaintances who were Mexicans and had no papers, but they still went through the border without showing any papers at all, why? because border agents know very well that we were just teens that would have some fun time, and then they would go back to Mexico, the Mexicans... or not, they didn't care... they probably just told we were all Texans coming back to Texas

those things still happen today, it has not changed much (although nowadays they check more cars and more often)

nowadays any American citizen can do the same, and pass an immigrant for some money, that was a very common business before Cartels monetized and took over this very business

so no, things have not changed much down here, the one thing that has changed is that all those politicians that want the seat at Washington, now they send their cameras over here... to politicize the situations and rile up voters like you and others as well

[Avicenna]

@NathanDavis: Your figures are taken out of thin air unless you can cite sources. And they do sound like utter BS. There are costs like K-12 education, emergency room health care costs, social services costs of incarceration as well as higher insurance costs and lower wages as well as the rampant tax fraud with the EITC and child tax credits. Let's be honest- your support for illegals is about cheap labor for you to benefit from while you pass the costs on to taxpayers. Anyone who has lived or lives in Texas knows this. To pretend that there isn't a problem is gaslighting, and in attempting to depict this as a partisan political issue rather than admitting that it's a big economic issue, you project your own partisanship on others.

Americans don't want to work for slave wages. Is that so hard for you to understand?

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna now, let's be realistic in here...

it would be extremely easy for you to look up this information and also find it from different studies, researchers, institutions and even the government of Texas

but again, let's be realistic... you do have a strong political leaning and you have your own political ideas, everything I said does not lean with what you have made your life about... and that is the only reason you refuse to "believe me"

now I do not have any need for me to convince you nor for you to believe me, you keep your ideals and your political preferences, that doesn't matter to me

and also, it does not change the reality of the Republican state of Texas, this is how things are here, and this how things have been here since the days of my greatgrandparents and their parents... and most likely it will continue to be for long

Texas does not lose to illegal immigration, never has... this is why Republicans in Texas could not care less about what you and others perceive without really knowing the actual reality of living HERE

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna now my second reply is a little bit more personal... because I can tell that you are very very frustrated with the fact that you were not able to refute my arguments in the discussion

so let me get a bit personal here, which is something I rarely do but like I said I still have respect for many of your opinions even if we do not agree

your argument about the many costs of childcare and incarceration, yes, does do exist... but they are already accounted on the billions figure that went up to 12 billion, so no, your argument there does not change anything I said, now when you mention welfare being cheated, yes that is very true... that does happen all across Texas... but those are not cheated off by illegal immigrants, most of the people that cheat off the welfare in Texas are USA citizens, everyone knows this here in the South of Texas, and knows it very well... USA citizens can leave off welfare very easily, you just have to make babies every three or four years... and put them on mental health welfare and fill them up with Ritalin, USA Citizens do this... not illegal immigrants

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna

now let's get personal because you got a bit frustrated and said personal things about me

First of all, no... I do not support illegal workers, and no, I do not benefit from hiring illegals nor illegals being hired, no...

I made my own business and have my own business, an international one... this means I respond to US authorities first, then I respond to the US borders agents second, then I respond to the Mexican b order agents third, and then I respond to the Mexican authorities fourth... and trust me, all of them do make extensive background checks on anything I do and everyone I work with, not only that... the direct competition I ever had... were the ones to first accuse me of of many things, including "hiring illegal workers, cheating taxes" and guess who ended up being investigated... I will tell you, it wasn't me, it was some of the ones who were trying to take me out of the competition, and this only happened because they did not realize who I knew... in the circles, which are relatives of mine and friends of the family

but there is a more important reason why I do not cheat taxes or I do not hire nor support illegal exploitation, and that reason is Cartels, I am a dual national, and the very moment I do anything illegal, they will knock at my door and be like "hey... I heard you do not mind doing something shady, you told us you would never do this, that was your promise to us"

now if you actually lived her, you know exactly what that implies right? right...

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna and lastly... about the more fair points in your arguments

I can continue to argue on those and correct you on your perception

but before I do i would ask you to either make it a discussion about the takes on these situations

or if you wan, make it personal and I will correct you on your wrong assumptions about me as if you really knew who I am and what I do

but please do not mix both, because that makes my replies way too long and mixed up, it is a waste of time for me to be clarifying personal takes... and takes that are just from discussion on a topic

[Avicenna]

I see a whole lot of tap dancing here on your part. You have made claims about the costs and benefits of illegals in Texas without citing sources to back up your claims. I've told you why I don't believe you. If you can't provide valid sources for your claims that can be evaluated, your claims cannot be taken seriously.

And you've tried to conflate welfare/tax fraud committed by illegals with that committed by US citizens. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that there is a lot committed by US citizens in South Texas, a region notorious for its relative poverty. But that isn't relevant to the costs imposed by illegals because those costs imposed by illegals would not be imposed if the illegals were not in the US. US citizens have a right to be here and if they're committing fraud, then it should be dealt with through the proper legal channels (and some of those US citizens were the children of people who entered the US illegally). And that isn't an excuse for permitting mass illegal entry and tolerating the cost of the fraud perpetrated by the illegals.

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna you choose to believe rather than to inform yourself...

that tells me all I need to know, you cannot and do not want to get past your political ideas

not once I ever said I had the need or interest on convincing you

you came here to my comment to claim I am full of BS... you are more than capable than going on your own and find out how to prove me wrong

your replies were quite late... so I think you just now very well as I do, that there will NOT be anything you will ever find to prove me wrong

and that is the only reason why you insist and insist of me to "cite sources" as if that EVER would convince you of anything you do not want to change your mind on

[Avicenna]

You're really arrogant. And you have yet to back up your claims. It is you who has to prove your claims are accurate. That you don't bother to do it is telling. And most of us have things to do besides post on GAG.

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna you might feel that I am arrogant...

but that is your own frustration knowing that you cannot prove me wrong as you initially said that I was full of bullshit

that is on you, not me...

[Avicenna]

You've done a good job of proving you are full of BS. And you still haven't backed up your bizarre claims, which tells me that you are lying.

No one gets frustrated by people like you- we see you BS artists all the time online. Frustration would necessarily require that we actually expect you to be reasonable and honest, which we already know anyone who supports illegals is not. But if you want to keep fooling yourself, it's your loss.

No one cares to hear stories about your alleged business practices. Those who support illegals and make up fairy tales about the imaginary benefits they provide are all benefiting from the illegals, or they wouldn't be lying, just like you are.

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna and you have been a disappointment with no equal so far

come with all the attitude to just point out that I am full of BS

and then prove yourself to be just another ignorant by choice... just so you do not have to back down on your political leanings

like I said, that is on you... not on me

keep your ideals, I do not care one bit... whatever makes you feel safer and validated with yourself go ahead, you're the one who needs it after all, not me

[Avicenna]

I’ll leave you to keep lying and deceiving yourself, Communist Party Cult Member.

Where did you get those numbers from?

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna there it is...

that's all you got? really?

well at least @agagagagaga had the decency to actually look it up some, and although he might not agree with me, clearly... he won't make a fool out of himself like the two of you, I respect that

[Agagagagaga]

I look up everything. Then I go and look up the people who said it and read about their past. I like to see what information is being peddled my way by the spin doctors in the news and on social media. Much of what people say usually isn’t credible and has absolutely no basis in fact or reality. Many claims are completely incapable of ever being substantiated and are nothing more than opinion being passed off as fact.

[NathanDavis]

@Agagagagaga and I respect that

[Avicenna]

Let's see, an immigration law firm posts this:

"Another study from a Texas-based organization states that unauthorized immigrants contribute about $32.2 billion per year in taxes."

That is not properly citing a source. Link directly to the study, not some vague mention of it.

www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/.../immigrants-in-texas

"Undocumented immigrants in Texas paid an estimated $2.6 billion in federal taxes and $1.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2018."

That's a far cry from 32.2 billion. And it's from a group that is very pro-illegal.

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna just for the fun of it... go ahead and find some ANTI-immigration advocate´s studies that have done research and studies to actually prove that Texas is losing a lot of money because of ~illegal immigration~ and once you show it to me... I will give you the one thing you're dying to get here

" yes, you are absolutely right and I was wrong... we´re losing so much money in tax revenue, illegal immigration is such a bad trade off"

go ahead and find it, take all the time you want... this offer will not expire, it is perpetual

just go and find anything that leans to your political leaning views and I will give you what you want...

[Avicenna]

You STILL refuse to link to your source. And we're supposed to take figures from you on taxes paid and costs on faith?

Whatever your motivation for supporting illegal labor, it's still illegal and it's still depressing wages and imposing costs on taxpayers.

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna "your support"

so childish and blinded... are you one of those guys from Qanon?

[Avicenna]

So the Texas Slave Labor enthusiast can’t back up his insane claim. And no matter what the number is, there is no reason to believe these taxes would never have gotten paid by legal workers (if not more).

But if anyone dares to question the slave labor enthusiasts and their illegal business model, they go crazy.

[NathanDavis]

@Avicenna "angry Qanon man yells at Marxist cloud"

[Avicenna]

Slave Labor Enthusiast, calm down- I know you’re furious at being exposed as a liar and you’re not used to people questioning you since you live in an echo chamber. but since you claim not to use illegal labor at all, please explain to us how you verify that all of your employees are able to work for any employer in the US and how you verify that any third party contractors who do work for your company or on any properties you own are also able to work for any employer in the US.

[NathanDavis]

[exitseven]

Yes, I visited Nova Scotia a few years ago and I was thinking of maybe retiring there. I looked into it a little and found that you had to prove you were financially solvent before you could live there. They have the right idea.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[jshm2]

They do, though.

95% of "illegals" pay for a tourist visa and fly in. Then get a job and pass credit checks before absconding.

Don't hate the players, hate the game.

[Agagagagaga]

How about we hate them both? Hmmm? The people facilitating this as well as the illegal aliens?

[OddBeMe]

Well they’d have no credit or money. But how about we plant trackers on them and make them pay taxes? Cool?

[EnglishEuropean]

I mean you're kind of lowering yourself to their level but
Hey, if it makes you feel better

[Avicenna]

No, they ought to be booted out right away

[fireforeffect]

They should be arrested and deported.