When are we going to admit that the mass shootings are merely a symptom of American imperial decline?

[OldWorldOrder]

Civilizations have a life cycle. This includes even the mightiest empires. Our entire society is descending into barbarism. The mass shootings are merely a component of that. We can't solve these issues by just writing down a new law, and any mass gun grab will simply start a civil war. The only real solution is to overthrow our ruling class and partition the empire among the different ethnic groups living on this continent.

[Oigit]

It's more of example of screwed up humanity can be, then anything else. Mass killings happen world wide. Be it someone smashing through a busy side walk in a car or someone going on a rampage with a kitchen knife. You can even find many examples of people using homemade bombs to carry them out in other countries and even in the US.

A lot of times people that carry them out don't even write out a manifesto detailing why they did it. So it winds up being a random act that took place out of no where and we end up with no reasoning behind it.

[goaded]

The US is the only country where Wikipedia limits the list of mass shootings to the ones that killed 10 or more in one go, to keep the numbers down to about one a year on average. (The UK had 1 that would match that definition this century.)

A more reasonable definition shows the US has seen 212 mass shootings in the last 145 days.

[Oigit]

@goaded When I say Mass Killings I'm not limiting it by if a gun was used or what country it took place in. Also I'm not limiting them to a given time period. Because limiting it in anyway prevents people from seeing the big picture. Also Wikipedia isn't good source in general.

[goaded]

So show me these other mass killings (many of which can be stopped by carefully placed lumps of concrete, unlike mass shootings).

Is saying Wikipedia isn't a valid source during an argument an admission of defeat? ↗

[Oigit]

@goaded Wikipedia is a platform that everyone can edit. Due to this people edit anything on it to say whatever they want. So I can go into Wikipedia and change the birth date of a given person. But it will not change the make the persons real birth date to the one I put on Wikipedia. Also not all the people editing a Wikipedia are doing so from a good faith position. So the best policy is to cross reference what you see on Wikipedia with several other sources. That way you are not framing your argument around a "fact" that you read on Wikipedia that isn't backed up by any other source or a "fact" that is not even remotely true. Due to the completely lack of evidence backing it up.

Also if you want to make this into a gun control conversation lets do it. Much like drugs there is a well established illegal gun trade and the US is a major hub for the international illegal gun trade. Due to this the majority of gun crime in the US is carried out by people that illegally obtained the firearm via a illegal gun deal. Much like the same illegal deals that are taking place everywhere in the US and other countries via the illegal drug trade. So a person that gets pulled over and gets arrested due to having both illegal narcotics and unregistered firearms didn't simply buy both at Walmart. They obtained both via illegal means.

[Oigit]

Also keep in mind that the only illegal drug deals and gun deals we hear about are the ones there where successfully stopped. So there is no real way of telling how many where successful. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the successful deals greatly eclipse the number of ones that where stopped in a given day. Simply because no one can track everything or be everywhere all the time. So it's like trying to keep track of a single ant in a colony of ant's. It's pretty much impossible to do so.

I'm not advocating for no gun control. I'm simply saying people need to be realistic about it. Gun crime in general is something that isn't going to go away. Also even something like mass shootings are never going to be a non-issue. Much like drugs and the illegal drug trade itself. They are issues that we are simply stuck with.

[goaded]

That's the point though. Wikipedia articles, at least ones that have been read by more than a few people, have been checked, and they all have sources.

"I'm not advocating for no gun control. I'm simply saying people need to be realistic about it. Gun crime in general is something that isn't going to go away."
Great, so what gun contol are you in favour of?

Universal background checks?
Stop selling AR-15s?
Red flag laws and extreme risk protection orders which stop a shooting before it happens?
Safe storage laws?
My idea: Simply having a couple of people swear under oath that the prospective gun owner is responsible, on penalty of half of whatever sentence they incur (or would have incurred if they were still alive) for any crime they commit involving a firearm.

[Oigit]

@goaded It's not about being for against gun control for me. It's about being a realist.

For example if you stop selling AR-15 rifles legally, the illegal market will do it's best to fill in the gap. It will also make selling one on the illegal market more profitable then it already is. So it could cause illegal gun manufacturing operations to be setup in the US and other countries to start making more and selling them on the street. Due to them now being more profitable. Also illegal gun manufacturing is already going on in the US. You can look up ghost gun's for more information on that.

Also you have to remember this weird thing about how people work. Once you ban something the more some people will want it. So it's like the case of underage drinking at a middle school or high school party. Some people will seek out a party where booze is on offer and those parties tend to draw a larger crowd, then a party without.

[Oigit]

In the end it comes down to not being able to regulate something away. Or being able to introduce enough laws to stop someone from doing something or getting their hands on something. So new regulations or laws might decease such instances. But it will not completely stop the issue. But with the way people in politics and the media talk about a given issue it's like they are trying to sell people on the idea that you can regulate something away or create laws that will completely stop what the laws are put in place to stop.

Heck the right is doing it with illegal immigration and the left is doing it with gun control.
Despite the 1920 cigarette ban, prohibition and the war on drugs proving that you can't regulate or law something away. Yet both sides keep trying to see us on the idea that they can. So at this point it goes back to the idea of Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. People will vote politicians and push for policies that are promising to regulate and law something away. Only for those people to end up angry because the issue never stops being an issue.

[goaded]

Funnily enough, the sales of AR-15 rifles in Europe is practically zero. Why do you think that is?

[Oigit]

@goaded Europe much like the US has a illegal gun trade. So saying that the sale of them in Europe is practically zero is a assumption at best.

[goaded]

No, it's observation.

[Oigit]

@goaded Still does not change or disprove what I said.

[goaded]

What "Despite the 1920 cigarette ban, prohibition and the war on drugs proving that you can't regulate or law something away"?

They were all very popular things. Can you smoke in restaurants in the US, still?

Making it illegal to carry a firearm around with you makes it possible to arrest someone before they shoot someone. You don't have to wait until afterwards.

[NamerOfStars]

What other empire had mass shootings when it declined? No, the Romans didn't have guns, but the English, Turks, French, Portuguese, and Spanish did. The Germans, too- BOTH times.

And if the only solution is revolution, why do none of those places have mass shootings now?

Perhaps most notably, what makes you think ethnicity would even be a factor, when it's barely ever an element in these crimes? The US isn't Yugoslavia!

[OldWorldOrder]

You are operating under an arbitrary ruleset that separates "peacetime" from "wartime."

The Soviet Union had plenty of mass shootings in the Caucasus and Central Asia when it declined. The German 2nd and 3rd Reichs ended with mass shootings in the form of the Battles of Belleau Wood, Blanc Mont, Seelow Heights, Berlin, the Bulge, et cetera. Spain fought a Civil War, Portugal fought and lost in Africa. Yugoslavia is a perfectly relevant example.

All life is struggle. Nature does not make distinctions between "peacetime" and "wartime." Bullets are bullets and death is death.

[NamerOfStars]

That makes absolutely no sense. If you include BATTLES, then every empire since the invention of gunpowder was seeing CONSTANT "mass shootings", down to the Koreans whipping the butts of the Chinese, whose empire endured for hundreds of years before collapsing. Hell, 1,000 Englishmen died on Breed's Hill, and another 26,000 during the the war; more than have been killed in every non-military mass shooting in American history- by more than an order of magnitude. The English empire lasted almost two centuries after that, and didn't crack so much as crumble. Hell, the Soviets had Kursk, Stalingrad, AND Kharkov (BOTH Kharkovs, actually) in ONE WAR, and lasted half a century longer.

[OldWorldOrder]

Again with this "military/civilian" stuff. This is an arbitrary distinction that has rarely been made in the history of humanity, and is found nowhere in nature.

[t-8900]

The Romans and Ottomans, etc didn't have guns. If you want to talk mass shootings according to how the US defines them though? There were TONS of mass shootings going on back then and it was usually governments doing it to the people. But Romans definitely had rampaging riots and endless civil wars at the end. This is what we call "soft civil war". This issue is happening for a multitude of reasons and it has nothing to do with guns. The drug crisis, inflation, dead beat parents, godlessness, identity crisis, bullying, multiculturalism, racism, sexism, divisive politics, mental health crisis, the list goes ON AND ON. The Boston Massacre was a mass shooting for example. It involved 3 or more people and a shot being fired. Thats what the FBI labels as a "mass shooting". The Empire was losing it's grip and a mass shooting happened. There's likely lots of examples of this throughout the time of firearms and before that it was Legionaries in the streets slaying civilians.

[Anonymous]

It's nothing new. There has been 1.5 million firearm deaths in America between 1968 and 2017 - that's higher than the number of soldiers killed in every US conflict since the American War for Independence in 1775 and yet, Americans are too stubborn and selfish to make any changes.

[t-8900]

How many of them were suicides and gang or drug related deaths?

[DWornock]

@t-8900 Knowing how corrupt the courts are; that's meaningless. However, you would never know that from the government media, if you never been to political trials, knew how the jury pool is preselected, and read the motions and transcripts that the jurors never see. Of course not, because you only believe what mainstream media tells you.

[DWornock]

@t-8900 This was not intended for you.

[Anonymous]

If anything the American empire grows more powerful. Even Rome had civil wars and slave revolts and remained a major power right up to the 1400s

[RealMarek]

We will not admit it until the dollar collapses and the current elite are thrown out or lose their ability to project force. After all, during the past two weeks I am hearing our elites say that the economy is better than ever, Americans’ happiness with the economy is at record levels, we are crushing Russia in the war, and we will lead the “international community” into the fourth industrial revolution utopia. The empire is in decline? History is not moving up and to the right? We will never admit it!

[DWornock]

There are so many false flag operations by the USA. Most countries have false flags but the USA is extreme. Such event used to happen twice in a century. Now they are happening every month; more than 100 times as often. No intelligent and logical person believes people are that different from the past. Therefore, the only explanation is they are false flag operations by powerful people in favor of gun control. That is most likely, people high in the government that wish to disarm to disarm the public. Also, the government controls the investigations to make certain that the truth about the false flag is never revealed.

[OldWorldOrder]

I am familiar with the increasing prevalence of staged events, federal entrapment & manipulation, and the neuro-linguistic programming techniques used to foment thoughts and engineer behaviors. But a lot of what is happening today is just the natural consequence of our dysfunctional civilization and doesn't necessarily involve any deliberate organizational plot.

[DWornock]

I trust you don't believe that a man in cave destroyed 3 skyscrapers on 9/11. Skyscrapers, which contrary to the government fantasy, had so much internal steel that it was impossible for them to collapse in their footprints without controlled demolition.

[goaded]

I bet even Alex Jones won't call this one a false flag, considering he's just lost a defamation lawsuit about Sandy Hook.

[DWornock]

@goaded Knowing how corrupt the courts are; that's meaningless. However, you would never know that from the government media, if you never been to political trials, knew how the jury pool is preselected, and read the motions and transcripts that the jurors never see. Of course not, because you only believe what mainstream media tells you.

[goaded]

Whereas you think murders of small children are made up for no reason at all.

[ChrisMaster69]

Yeah that is a really fucking stupid thing to do 😂😂😂😂😂

because nothing bad ever happens with that.

How to show pathetic thinking lol.

[OldWorldOrder]

"Good" is not in the forecast, buddy.

Best we can do is select the least bad moving forward. Or live in denial and make everything worse. Whatever. 🤷‍♂️

I'm armed and will take what's mine either way.

[ChrisMaster69]

Yeah nothing like totally over reacting, typical spams

[OldWorldOrder]

You should read more history. Every empire thinks they're special and magical and can last forever.

None of them do.

[ChrisMaster69]

Yeah erm I’m British I know a little bit about empires.

Ours crashed and burned, nothing needed about panicking and trying to ethnically sort a country.

It’s not like the US is even an empire, it’s simply a country.

Which is even less of a reason to panic, however on you go, don’t let common sense get in the way.

[OldWorldOrder]

Yeah erm you're clearly gay and a retard.

Imagine thinking that the USA isn't an empire lmao

We have geographic, demographic, economic and political conditions here that were not present in Britian in the immediate post-war period. Duh.

Keep being gay and stupid lol

[ChrisMaster69]

Oh so bring gay is a bad thing.

Let’s guess religious homophobic retard, who panics about the end of the world 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Wow you do tick those boxes for an Amazing American,.

Shall I guess at a Republican as well.

Religious, Republican and homophobic.

😂😂😂😂😂

[OldWorldOrder]

Do the world a favor and go get AIDS or mokeypox or some shit lol

[ChrisMaster69]

Lol
Yeah definitely a delicate Republican lol

Bit of a flake really from the sound of your question

Do you also get scared of thunder 😂😂😂😂

[OldWorldOrder]

When did your father begin molesting you?

[Slartybartfast]

I've been hearing almost the exact same words all my life. America in decline, Amerika will fail..

Ironically it used to come from the USSR.

[OldWorldOrder]

So you think America has magical powers and can defy physics and will just last forever I guess. Okay.

[Slartybartfast]

I see, low unemployment, infrastructure being built, education being funded, technology advancing, industry returning. It's hard to be doom and gloom despite Putin's insane genocidal invasion of Ukraine. In fact NATO is stronger, our alliances have been strengthened etc etc.

[OldWorldOrder]

You're either completely deluded, or you're just a shameless liar.

How much is gasoline where you live?

What is the suicide rate of your town over the last 300 years?

How many times is Joe Biden going to contradict his own State Department and Pentagon this week? Lmao

Keep copin' baby. 😁

[Lord_Saddler]

America already failed, my dear swine.

You're just postponing your own demise, @slartybartfast. There's nothing your pathetic leaders can do to stop China and, frankly speaking, the entire world knows that China has much more positive things to offer than your America.

At the best case scenario, your future is becoming a regional power like a Brazil on steroids. At the worst, the polarization of your society, impoverishment and too much armed retards will lead you to a bloody civil war and the secession of America into several states.

Either way, the Global South is tired of you and we can only laugh at your disgrace.

[goaded]

"How much is gasoline where you live?" Far higher than it was when the price of crude was just as high as it is now, 2009-2014. Corporations are ripping you off, and guess who voted en masse against a law to stop it? Just so people like you can pretend it's Biden's fault.

[OldWorldOrder]

@goaded
Snort the ukropium.

Snort a mile-long line of it. 😤

[goaded]

@oldworldorder Do you think you'll ever bother to give a considered opinion about anything? Or will you stick to making stupid comments?

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded Ah, the NATO-paid troll graces us with his presence.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler Wait, am I being paid by NATO as well as Soros now? No wonder I'm so rich! So, why are pump fuel prices 30% higher today than they were in 2012, when the price of oil was also around $100 a barrel?

[Slartybartfast]

@goaded yeah, how do I get in on this Georg Soros money? Do I need to believe in alien lizard people and that it was antifa/jews that tried to overthrow our democracy on Jan 6 or can I just join cult45 and stop reading books?

[Lord_Saddler]

@slartybartfast NATO troll farms pay about 400/month euros I've heard. That would be a good job for you since a retarded loser like you can hardly find anything better.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler Great, where do I sign up? Or is it just another right-wing fever dream?

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded You live in a "free" and capitalist society. Do your research.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler There's no point because it's clearly bullshit.

Have you heard of "Critical Ignoring"? ↗

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded That's what a paid troll would say indeed. It's funny how everything you say hits the Western propaganda talking points, you even have a list of things to copy and paste in a discussion, but it is pure coincidence, right?

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler You are off your rocker, aren't you? Never heard of going and looking things up.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded You're absolutely right! It's obvious that you ***don't*** work for an NGO or even Radio "Free" Europe. You're an independent thinker, your thoughts are complex and permeated by nuance! It's pure coincidence that you sound like a paid troll sometimes.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler Whereas you sound like someone whose never met a fact you wouldn't ignore.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded Who are you to talk about facts, troll? You can't differentiate a communist from a right-winger. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Slartybartfast]

@Lord_Saddler it's hard to tell a Russian bot from a Trumplican, they litteraly say the exact same things using the exact same words.

I have noticed however, that the Russian bots usually have better grammar.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler Here's a fact: Biden won the 2020 election.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded So what, bot? He's the president of your country, not mine.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler Do you ever get bored of be so obviously wrong?

[Lord_Saddler]

@slartybartfast I won't argue with you, since you're not even rational (do you hear voices in your head or something?). But it's not your fault you cannot afford mental health treatment in the USA. Sad.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded Prove I'm wrong, troll.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler What country do you think I live in?

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded You seem to be a USian citizen who lives in Europe.

[Slartybartfast]

@Lord_Saddler ad hominem,. Typical.

I'm fairly well off even though I was born very poor (thank you America) and I have excellent health insurance.

You started this blaming Jews (soros) and black people (antifa) and I think that's where a lot of right wing anger comes from. You can no longer be openly racist so you are forced to use other terms instead of J or N to describe the people you hate, it's transparent, obvious and doesn't fool anyone.

[Lord_Saddler]

@slartybartfast Learn what an ad hominem is, ignoramus: when you insult someone instead of rebutting their arguments. Where are your arguments? You have NONE.

"You started this blaming Jews (soros) and black people (antifa)"

You're actually schizophrenic. When did I do that? I ask you again: do you hear voices in your head or see people that no one else sees?

[goaded]

To be fair, the lunatic only suggested I was being paid by NATO, I brought up Soros, since he's the one I'm usually accused of being paid by. Of course, since he's got lots to hide, he assumes other people do as well, and never bothered checking my profile until just now, then made another incorrect assumption.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded Your friend @slartybartfast is a lunatic. A paranoid schizophrenic, to be exact.

Measure your words, troll.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler Nope, you're the one who thinks I'm being paid by NATO, which is obvious paranoia.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded I don't know if you're. What is obvious is that your thoughts always hit all the Radio "Free" Europe's talking points.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler Of course you know I'm not paid by NATO, nobody is paid by them to argue with idiots. (That was a place you shouldn't have used the contraction, by the way.)

WTF is "Radio "Free" Europe" anyway? Never mind, I looked it up. Where are you, cowardly private profile person, anyway?

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded How would I know? You know, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck, right?

You talk like a troll from one of those Radio Free Europe's troll farms, but it can be pure coincidence, right?

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler You know, because you know it's just some bullshit conspiracy theory, and also that I've been on here for years.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded An actual example of conspiracy theory is to claim that China is ganging up with the Russian "KGB" (since 1991 a defunct institution) to "dominate the world" as you said before.

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler I've never said anything of the sort.

[Lord_Saddler]

@goaded Are you now ashamed of your own words? 😂😂😂😂😂

[goaded]

@Lord_Saddler They're not my words. I don't know why you're just making stuff up.

[FunkyMonkee]

No, it's just a government ploy to make you want to give up your guns so they can take over the country and control you ala 1984, only worse! And, we're already half way there!!

[Anonymous]

Different ethnic groups? Why the hell would we do that

[OldWorldOrder]

So that we can have peace.

Good fences make good neighbors. Mutual respect for differences.

Or continue this doomed experiment and be bathed in nuclear fire. Whatever. 🤷‍♂️

[ChefPapiChulo]

Im not sure exactly but you might be suffering from mental illness. I could be wrong and I’m sorry if I am.

[Shamalien]

The erosion of morals and community has consequences

[Anonymous]

There is no way to break the life cycle of civilisation.

[Anonymous]

People need guns to defend themselves from people such as yourself.

[OldWorldOrder]

lol

You're not wrong. But I'm also more civilized than you give me credit for. I'm hardly your biggest threat.

[Waldoe]

mass shootings are Rare, and happen in all societies... America is just Fine...

[OddBeMe]

So mass shooters are pissed we're not imperialists?

[888theGreat]

No morals. Parents are not allowed to spank kids anymore. You get what you sow

[jimmy2]

No it's the face of Evil walking with The devil

[Anonymous]

fake news nothing they say is true