Why were anti-abortion laws allowed to pass in the US?

[jcampbell115]

It the overwhelming majority of Americans support abortion to some degree, why were they allowed to overturn Roe v Wade? Why does the US tailor to such deep-seated roots of white Catholicism? Further, why is nothing done as a Western developed nation to at least achieve Public Healthcare?

www.google.com/.../how-americans-lost-federal-abortion-rights

Updates

+1 y

The problem of "legality" or "constitutionality" is that they're likely determined by a group of old white men aka "judges"

[RavVid]

First and foremost this is a US citizen's issue only and I completely condemn our Australian Prime Minister for commenting on it. He should not have opened his mouth. He does that far too often and shows he is a dropkick in doing so.

Jcampbell115 I assume you are not a US citizen from the tone of your question which appears to be from a UK perspective.

Firstly the Supreme Court overturned a previous ruling in 1973 that found an implied right to abortion and the current Supreme Court found that abortion was not mentioned in the US constitution and therefore it could not be inferred to be a federal matter. It is a black letter law interpretation IE exactly what is written or not written with nothing inferred. Judge made law is problematic because a subsequent court may interpret differently as in this case

Therefore it reverts to State legislatures to enact legislature they consider appropriate. Here in Australia that is exactly how it works in our country also as we are a federal system too. You may find this surprising as the UK has long been a highly centralized gov't bu neither the US or Australia is.

To be honest I found your comment on White Catholicism snide.

Perhaps a hark back to the days Roman Catholics could not vote or hold public office in the UK? It does seem that some people think that referring to the RC is enough to revoke something as a reasonable thought to have.

In truth every world religion struggles with the concept of abortion because of the question of 'when does life begin'. It simply isn't Catholics alone at less than 25% in the US while protestants are at 50%. Some denominations of which are permissive of abortion. It seems about 50% of Catholics disagree with their churches teaching.

And why are you tossing in white on this? To inject some racist overtones? Not surprisingly the majority of Hispanics are Catholic and African Americans are pro-rata with white Americans.

So that is your snide comment disposed of.

It is unfortunate the US has to deal with this divisive issue but doubtless they can without lectures from you and I.

[OlderAndWiser]

You obviously don't understand the function of the Supreme Court.

1. This is the group of "old white men" to whom you referred:

2. The Supreme Court does not "pass" laws. That is the function of Congress. The Supreme Court is the highest appeals court in the US, and it hears appeals from the various circuit courts of appeal. It's purpose primarily is to interpret the law - constitution, statues, and prior judicial precedent - and apply them to cases being appealed.

3. Supreme Court justices are not elected and the ony way they leave the bench is through death, retirement, or impeachment. They do not need our permission to make their decisions, and their obligation is not to make decisions that are popular. Again, their obligation is to interpret the law and apply it to cases being appealed.

4. There is certainly an abundance of Roman Catholics on the Court but I challenge you to read the opinion and find any reasoning that is based in religious dogma.

5. To throw in, as an aside, that the US does nothing to provide public healthcare sounds like you are just venting enmity for the US. And it is an absurd statemenet to make. Simply absurd!

[jcampbell115]

Ok, so you showed me a picture of by and far older age individuals, the majority of whom are white, only to argue that they aren't all white because of one black man in the photo. I count more older white men in that photo than anything else. What's your point?

And yeah, a lot of things that are happening in the US right now deserve all the enmity it attracts. For one, you have a shooting in a school or shopping mall a couple times a month it seems. Something to be proud of I'm sure. Imagine going into a hospital for a knee fracture, staying there for a couple days to heal and receiving therapy, and being able to walk out not having paid for any of that. What, you're telling me you don't want to pay extra in taxes because it might mean having to help cover someone else's care other than your own? Like the list of backwards thinking goes on and on

[jcampbell115]

If I told you to shove a stick up your ass, would you do it because I told you to? No, you'd probably tell me to F off and that it's your own body. If someone can't afford a child, as accidents happen, at the end of the day they should have every right to make that decision for their body, and at the end of the day it is a healthcare decision, whether you care to admit it or not

[OlderAndWiser]

We will continue to disagree so there is no need to continue the discussion.

The question you asked was "Why were anti-abortion laws allowed to pass in the US?" I answered that question, you ignored most of my answer, and smply trned this into one more debate on the merits of abortion. I didn't ask for that. Goodbye.

[bingbongbangbung]

Except a human fetus only has half the DNA of the woman and half the DNA of the man who impregnated her. And also it's theologically and scientifically agreed that life happens at the moment of conception, not at birth. Do feel free to use excuses like "just a clump of cells" or "her body, her choice" or "what about rape or incest".

[LilyoftheLake]

I'm not terribly political, but I do have some views regarding abortion. After taking a few steps back from the emotional baggage that goes with it, I'd like to offer my thoughts.

Rights are a difficult thing to identify, but they need some clarification. Essentially, I believe two things in this regard: 1: You are responsible for the consequences of YOUR actions, and 2: You have a right to be exempt from outside damages.

That's where abortion gets tricky. Getting pregnant is usually an accident in situations where abortion is a concern. The question is, is it more of an outside damage, or the consequences of your actions?

In the case of rape or sexual abuse, the answer becomes much clearer. You had no choice, and the pregnancy really was forced on you. But in the case of a condom breaking, or not taking the pill, it is an accident, but you knew the risks.

Now, I'm not going to say I know how this should go, but I support the Supreme Court's decision. All they did was overturn that abortion was a right - they did NOT outlaw abortion. They revoked their position and returned it to the states to try by a more case-by-case business, which I fully support.

[JohnK123]

EXACTLY
They didn’t permanently ban it California still allowing it
And yes while I think rape victims and ill people with diseases that could kill themselves or their baby at birth should get one, an ignorant and irresponsible woman should not get one. They gotta learn how to be responsible

[purplepoppy]

Because America isn't a democracy in the same way as say the UK. In the UK they are debated in Parliament by all parties left , right and a collection of others. The parties with the most seats have the greatest input.
But in the USA it's down to a few judges regardless of the balance of power

[NamerOfStars]

In order:
-Roe V Wade was overturned because the legal reasoning behind it was bullshit: the Constitution makes absolutely no mention of abortion or anything similar. Frankly, it should've happened decades ago.
-Catholicism isn't "white", but it has such a major influence on American politics since so many Americans are, and historically were, Catholic; about a quarter of the country, currently. As shocking as it may be, people who flee halfway across the damn WORLD to protect their right to practice their faith tend to place a high value on it. Funny how that works.
-Quite a bit is done is the US to achieve public healthcare: such efforts inevitably fail due to the depressing effect that market controls have on innovation; and NOBODY else is willing to pick up the ball and run with it, or even pay their fair share of the failure costs- Russia and China at least TRY, but can't keep up, and Israel does its own thing, because they hate depending on anyone for anything, but I don't see YOU willing to leave medical innovation stagnant, which means SOMEBODY needs to foot the bill.

That is, however, secondary; the bigger issue is that your hypocrisy is showing. You claim to want government payment of health care costs. Okay. That's going to mean that the government has more control over how you live your life. If the first thing they say is "no more abortions", will you be okay with that?

[jcampbell115]

My hypocrisy? Lmao, Americans are some of the most hypocritical people you can ever meet, and I don't even live there 🤣

[NamerOfStars]

You claim to want government-funded healthcare, and yet object when the government places limits on healthcare options.

It's damn obvious you don't live here; we have our share of hypocrites, but at least we're not allergic to self-awareness.

[jcampbell115]

Oh you're certainly all self-aware, that's for sure. It's a combination of selfishness, greed, and arrogance

[jcampbell115]

Don't take away my guns! Holy fuck, you'd never hear the end of that if that ever happened

[NamerOfStars]

Of course we would- it's you who wouldn't, since we wouldn't be able to save your asses again.

[Lliam]

Out of the 9 current justices, three are women and one is African American. So your "old white man" slogan fails.

I support the right to abortion and wasn't happy with the recent decision. But I've been reading analysis from various sources. It might not be a terrible thing and here's why:

The original ruling was the result of judicial activism and resulted in federal government overreach. Roe v. Wade wasn't a law.

The constitution says that any powers not specifically granted to the federal government fall to the states. So this recent ruling allows states to determine their own abortion policies.

One good outcome might have to do with federal government vaccine and "emergency" mandates. Many people who claim "my body, my choice" in regards to abortions are hypocritically supportive of coercion to mask, distance, and force others to get injected with god knows what. The federal government does not have the constitutional authority to enforce such mandates.

So now that Row v Wade has been overturned, it makes it possible to argue against the constitutionality of federal "pandemic" impositions and other examples of federal attempts to dictate to states.

In a republic, too much power in the hands of federal government is dangerous. It can lead to dictatorship. People have much greater power to influence over their own state legislatures.

[Anonymous]

The united States of America is just that a collection of 50 states each with different geographies, populations, cultures, economic, Constitutions, legal systems, nearly all law enforcement resource's, militarizes, and political per-dispositions.
In short States don't really need other states or the Federal Government for anything.

As it happens most of the people who support abortion live in the pro-abortion states. Most of the people who oppose abortion live in pro-life States.

Our States are only really united together under a limited Federal Constitution agreed to only legitimately have "Few and Defined" powers of a forign nature. The 10th amendment was even added to that constitution to reinforce that defined requirement.
As such if something isn't specifically mentioned in that federal constitution, the issue belongs to the people or their states to decide exclusively.

This is why the fact that abortion, marriage, and almost every other domestic issue not being mentioned in the Federal Constitution is such a big deal. And why for 200+ years theses issues were settled by the States to suit the unique circumstance, values and dispositions of the people of each state.

It was a lawless act of unaccountable Federal politicians in black robes that abridged our right to govern ourselves in favor of their own personal political views. That has at last ended on the issue of abortion.

As such you should expect a great many states to start expressing their people's true views on the subject.

[Oigit]

Many other countries have serious restrictions on abortion or have a complete ban on abortions. So it's not just America. Rather then falling into this "I hate people that don't agree with my stance on abortion" view. I think you should actually look at both sides of the issue and do some independent research. Simply because if the world needs less of anything it's intellectually lazy people that won't do both. Because it does not matter what side of given topic or debate you are on, there is zero excuse for being intellectually lazy.

[TonyV]

Well I haven't re-read the interest constitution lately, which I need to do.

But I think it got overturned cause it's not directly or even vaguely mentioned in the constitution, and from what I understand only constitutionally supported rights can be federal law, so it sounds like it never technilly should have been federal.

Also from what I've heard roe vs wade wasn't about giving women the choice in the first place, it was about giving that doctor the right to stop a mother killing birth, and gave all doctors that choice.

That being said I support abortion 100% and think this was an idiotic change to make.

I really want to read that whole damn thing, maybe print it poster size and hang it up, seems like every other damn day the corrupt government is trying to push the limits of what they think they can do.

[RolandCuthbert]

You have to read Alito's opinion. He never claims that abortion is wrong. He says the Constitution does not ensure a woman's right to an abortion. So since there is no explicit right granted, this is in the purview of the states.

And it is the states that are making the decision to ban abortion. Of course the Republicans want to outlaw abortion, but they can't even get all the Republicans in the Senate to agree on that. In fact, the Senate may have enough votes to make abortion legal, with the filibuster.

[WindAtMyBack]

Because the ruling did not make abortion illegal. The ruling was nothing more than a ruling on jurisdiction and the authority of the federal government. The ruling is completely 100% neutral on abortion itself. It says that the federal government can't make it legal, nor can they make it illegal.

You mention the overwhelming majority. You need to look at the majority in the few places where it becomes illegal. Because it's still completely legal in the overwhelming majority of the US.

I strongly suspect that even in the places where it became illegal, that it will reverse in the not-to-distant future.

[WindAtMyBack]

"The problem of "legality" or "constitutionality" is that they're likely determined by a group of old white men aka "judges" "

Actually it was a woman who tipped the scales. She is one of the strongest proponents of overturning Roe, maybe the strongest.

[jshm2]

You're confused.

The so called "abortion rights" were shitty law to begin with, and as a result have been contested since they were a thing in the 1970's. Just like slavery, prohibition and other laws that were later abolished.

There is no "overwhelming" anything in American politics. It's just media bullshit and social mythology that any group of Americans actually agree on anything. Let alone support abortion to any degree. They can't even agree when conception begins and if abortion is actually a necessary step in every case considering it's mental trauma and affect in later female health.

America is basically a third world ideology country with a first world economy. You cannot claim it to be anything religious.

[andreasderjuengere]

''
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government'' etc.

[Silent_Bob]

Because three right wing Inquisitors were appointed on the Supreme Court and they totally wiped their ass with separation of church and state. We do not vote for Supreme Court justices. Once they are in, they have the position for life. Theodore Roosevelt knew the dangerous precedent this set so he proposed recall elections for Supreme Court justices: If a Justice made a ruling that was out of touch with the wishes of the electorate, an election would be held and voters would decide whether or not said Justice would be able to keep their job. Neither party was keen on the idea because they were both focused on packing the court with their own judges. We need to implement those recall elections so the Supreme Court has the accountability that the other two branches of government have.

[Steve7111]

The Supreme Court doesn't rule on what the constitution *should* say, but on what it *does* say.

There is no right to abortion to be found in the text of the Constitution and that is what the court just ruled on. Roe v Wade was bad jurisprudence, and even the late, lamented Ruth Bader Ginsburg admitted that.

All the decision does is return the issue to each individual state to decide for themselves. Now the law in each state will reflect what the majority of its citizens want re abortion, and surely that's a good thing?

[Snsl153]

Oh right, so it's only "white men" and "white Catholics" who oppose abortion. You do know that Catholics full stop, male, female, black, white, Asian, whatever, oppose abortion, don't you? Why did you decide to make this about gender and race? That's a really low thing to do.

[grega239]

Forget it. he's a leftard and crackas are the spawn of satan to people like him

[Jessica405]

I do not understand how politics, laws and courts relate in US. Why can't a cut-and-dried law be passed allowing abortion anywhere? It seems a decision has been made, BY AN UNELECTED BODY, that affects millions of women. There appears to be no sanctions possible for people to make. They cannot vote these judges out for a decision that is deemed wrong by people.

[jcampbell115]

Look at the social media profiles of people not living in the US and even those living in the US, and you'll see what they think of the decision. It's only their own citizens that are conditioned to think that abortions are terrible that are unphased or think the decision is a good thing

[Aerissa_Jade]

It was a group of unelected people that made it legal in the first place, just need congress to do it... but they can't at the moment as they would need more senators than they currently have.

[LikeALog]

A law can be passed by Congress. Unfortunately, because Roe vs Wade was in place, nothing was done. Now it is up to Congress to act. All SCOTUS did was say in the absence of a law passed by Congress it is the decision of the State's legislative bodies to decide.

[ODC2112]

Because Roe Vs. Wade was nonsense, one of the most drawn-out sentences in history. Roe vs Wade was written by the Burger court by a collection of old white men, the majority being Republicans as they are now.
On the other hand, the Dobb vs Jackson W. H. O. was written by the Court Court the most inclusive court in the history of the United States, it has blacks, women, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans inside. So the clown who claims that the court is a collection of old white men can take this claim to make a ball and stick it up his ass.
And the Supreme Court did very well to throw this firecracker right now with the worst political class America has ever had. By worst political class I mean both sides.

[RealMarek]

The reason they overturned Roe v Wade was not because of the morality of abortion. It was simply because the Roe v Wade decision was deeply flawed in that it used specious arguments to force a political decision at the national level that, per the Constitution, was plainly an issue reserved to the states. RBG herself (may she rest in power) understood the weakness of the decision and frequently expressed reservations about it.

[bamesjond0069]

No anti abortion law was passed just now. The majority of Americans do not support abortion and many of the ones that do hardly support it. Ie ok with morning after pill and 1st trimester or less. Or dont care but wouldn't get one themselves.

So maybe you just dont understand whats going on.

[Anonymous]

Because it’s been ruled the constitution does not grant universal abortion rights and that it therefore should be, and now is, up to each state and its people to decide about this for themselves. And if someone is so upset and butthurt over not being allowed to murder their own child anymore then they’re free to move to a state which still allows so such atrocities.

[Jessica405]

I wish people would not confuse the term "child" with a non-viable foetus.

[Reaper1985]

the federal supreme court upholds laws that federal congress members and president pass. there is currently no federal law on the books saying abortion is legal or illegal.

the state supreme courts uphold laws that state congress members and the governor pass. currently some states are issuing laws regarding the topic of abortion and if it's legal or not in there state.

[Jamesshinobi]

exactly aa you said. the constitution does not give the federal Governmemt the authority. it is left up to the states and the people in a Democratic fasion. the people in the states that want to murder babies will democratically pass the laws they want in such regard.

[Aerissa_Jade]

Its cause they see them as anti murder laws, and well lets face it. Most the liberals crowd to big huge cities and their states will stay legal and most the conservative are in rural states where they can out law it.

[888theGreat]

Majority doesn't support abortion. That is a lie told by Democrats. They say that about every issue. Abortion was illegal longer than legal. It was illegal for 150 years until an all Democrat Supreme Court made it legal. But you are a liberal under 30 that knows a lot about nothing.

[WhitneySnow]

I agree with you, but some Americans in some red states are strongly opposed to abortions. Also, some judges, including a couple on the Supreme Court, are neither white nor male (most of them are pretty old).

[msc545]

The court says it was because there has actually never been any constitutional right to abortion and there are many laws against taking life because one feels like it.

However - the systematic denial of men's reproductive rights had a LOT to do with it.

[Daniela1982]

Because the birth control products companies weren't selling as many condoms because ding bats liked doing it raw and were all getting pregnant. And a lot of Congressmen have a share in those companies.

[Avicenna]

You’re too dumb to realize how much you’ve embarrassed yourself with your racist shrieking. And you don’t have the slightest understanding of how laws are made in the US or the system of check and balances.

[Vendela]

He didn't say anything racist dumbass.

[Avicenna]

@Vendela: You’re as dumb as he is. Next you’ll tell me that genius actually understands the things I mentioned above.

[Vendela]

You're 51 years old, don't you have a funeral to plan? Stfu

[Avicenna]

@Vendela: LMAO…. you get dumber by the minute

[Vendela]

Great comeback.

[Guy13]

It is murder and the life of a defenseless unborn takes precedence over what Self wants. Enough with the Hitlerian womb exterminating Genocide. Enough with the Crimes against Humanity.

[lightbulb27]

because it was considered not a federal issue, a state issue. that depends upon the leaning of the court.

[loveslongnails]

There are a lot of very narrow minded, conservative, even stupid people in America, and they make their way into positions of power because equally stupid people vote them into office.

[Anonymous]

It's embarrassing isn't it?

Remember this moment when you didn't think that things in America could get any more clown shoes, just wait, it will get worse, some how they will figure out a way to sink lower.

[BlacklightShade]

It’s been the Republican agenda for decades. That’s why they appoint hard right conservative Supreme Court judges

[JohnK123]

Let’s not use Republican or Democrat please
It’s hard right people and not all republicans support hard right people. Just like not all republicans support the ban, and just like not all democrats are against it.

[Anonymous]

The only thing I can say is that fortunately not all states are the same in terms of their consitituents’ points of view on abortion. Therefore, one can always move to another state if they don’t like what’s happening in their own.

[BlacklightShade]

Poor people can’t just get up and move to another state.

[Agagagagaga]

@BlacklightShade So they can’t afford a plane ticket and a hotel stay? People travel for abortions all the time. 🤷‍♂️

[Anonymous]

Because SCOTUS rules on what is constitutional and abortion is not a right listed in the constitution, which means it’s a law up for the states to decide.

[grega239]

They weren't. All that happened was the court decided its not a federal concern since its not constitutionally protected.

Its up to the individual states... moron

Old white men? there's a black guy and a woman too.

[JohnK123]

I don't know if Americans realize this but women in Europe have always had less rights than American women… u just don’t see them like yk
So yeah the women saying all our rights are gone is actually false

[bean2k21]

No reason for the "old white man" hate speech. And yes, I support State's rights. The Feds should butt out more often.

[OddBeMe]

Because only 48% of americans voted in 2016. Most liberals stayed home. Namely blacks and women. Thanks guys! Now orangutan Trump placed THREE supreme court justices. #consequences.

[joeldalton]

It’s so weird that guys who are so pro abortion like you are guys no woman wants to fuck.

[FunkyMonkee]

A bunch of eggheads either forgot or just never knew why we had them in the first place!

[dragoblack]

Because rich pro-life politicians who don't know how abortion really works, wanted it overturned. Plain & simple.

[Anonymous]

The judges on the supreme court should be elected with term limits. That's the biggest problem, they can do or say what every they want and millions are affected by the same 9 people until those 9 get too old or die.

[007kingifrit]

80% of americans support some type of ban on abortion, the devil is in the details of where the lines are

[jimmy2]

We have 3 branches of government, prez, House and Sente and Supreme Court so each beach can't control each other. When court decides is done no father can one take it past the court

[jahaims]

If the separation of church and state was actually enforced it would probably help.

[DWornock]

Because it is not a federal matter and should be left up to each state.

[Cubus]

Because US constitution doesn't say, even indirectly, that abortion must be legal.

[BlacklightShade]

How about owning a person? Should that revert back to the states too?

[Cubus]

@BlacklightShade Nope, because XIIIth amendment is against it.

[Anonymous]

Ok not a old white man. and it's not the majsorty people that's that little rest pool of people.

Go ask a Latino what they think of aboetin

[Twalli]

They were allowed because SCOTUS isn't composed of what the majority want.

[anylolone]

Because they are fairly popular in the states where they are passed.

[JesseJayNeak]

That’s a democrat lie. And second abortion is not a right

[jcampbell115]

So do you need someone to tell you that wiping your own ass is also a right?

[JesseJayNeak]

In which part of the constitution it says that abortion is a right?

[Anonymous]

You will likely find that the support for abortion varies greatly state by state.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Because abortion isn’t anywhere near as popular as the media has you believe

[Anonymous]

Because Biden and the Bills needed some new toys best guess

[peedy]

Sounds like CNN propaganda

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

Because they don't care about what people want.

[kinkyoldman]

Because most people don't want it.

[RobEurope]

I dont know. The world will witness dark days.

[Anonymous]

This is just like how I wonder how Biden won.