Why is it considered murder when a pregnant woman is beaten by her husband and the baby dies but not when a woman chooses to kill her own baby?

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

It all has to do with woman’s choice if the fetus dies by someone brutalizing her it’s not her choice just like sex if it’s not consensual is considered a crime because it’s not by choice. Many scholars think fetal homicide laws were made on purpose to give the fetus personhood from conception even though not every state, religion, scientist or individual can agree on when personhood begins.

[Bratsondanielle]

Don't know where you are located but here in the greatest country on earth we largely stopped killing babies now

[Chazmatazz269]

Where are you a citizen?

[Bratsondanielle]

@Chazmatazz269 where am I a citizen? I was born in the United States by parents born in the United States who were born by parents...🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

[Danny_dan92]

That’s actually a good question. But I think it’s cause of the fact that in the case of the woman being beaten which results in the baby dying


For one that’s domestic violence which is a criminal offense, and then the baby dying was not a medical procedure decided by the woman herself.

[Anonymous]

Because the baby is owned by the mother.

If you want to destroy your own property thats fine but if you destroy someone elses property you owe them for the damage you caused...

[Chazmatazz269]

Hmmm… not bad, but not quite. The law referred to in the question is criminal law, and you’re comparing it to civil law. We don’t send people to prison for civil offenses, but we do for criminal. Ponder on that. I’m interested in the next generation of your consideration.

[Opinion Owner]

@Chazmatazz269 Destruction of property is not a civil matter.

[Chazmatazz269]

Ell oh ell! It absolutely is! There is no “destruction of property” without a claimant! Hahahaha!
One of the defining characteristics between criminal and civil is the prevalence of a claimant.
It’s okay to not know this stuff, friend. Just stop pretending like you do and nobody cares.

[Opinion Owner]

@Chazmatazz269 I live in the UK, in this country there is a thing called 'criminal damage'.

So insert patronising ooh so close whatever bullshit.

[Chazmatazz269]

Ell oh ell! You can call it whatever you like, but you’ve failed, entirely, to represent your point by any reasonable standard.

[Opinion Owner]

@Chazmatazz269 I think what you mean is that you failed to demonstrate that I was wrong and now you are sad.

You can either grow up or fuck off, i dont care which but one way or another you are done here.

[Crafteroon]

Why is it when you jump in front of a car it's called suicide, but when someone else pushes you in front of a car it's called murder? That's pretty much the reason.

[VanessaValentine]

That analogy doesn’t work. the baby in an abortion isn’t committing suicide. by the way nothing is more unattractive then metrosexual men like you.

[Crafteroon]

If you're going to attack the person instead of the topic, at least learn the term you find so offensive. Nothing says more about your obtuseness than misnaming terms.

[Chazmatazz269]

You can take offense at her insult, but you didn’t offer an intelligible retort to her point. It’s not the same by any reasonable standard. Can you continue to defend your position intelligently, or only emotionally?

[Anonymous]

It’s a baby when a woman wants to keep it and it’s “just a clump of cells” when she doesn’t. Women decide whether it’s a human or not based on how they feel.

[Chazmatazz269]

Privilege, in no uncertain terms. Privilege that the left will have you believe is actually “equality”.

[kylee2437]

Because in the first scenario the woman is not given a choice / was not her own doing.

[Asker]

It can't be murder in one situation and not one in another...

[kylee2437]

@asker we can agree to disagree. A baby is still attached to a woman regardless of how you feel. She has a right to make the choice of whether or not she wants to keep what is attached her to body.

[Asker]

You can't say something is murder in one case and say it's not in another case... Lol it doesn't work like that.

[kylee2437]

Actually I can because one is illegal in every state and the other is not illegal in every state. That’s not me talking, that’s the law talking 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Chazmatazz269]

You’re not wrong about the law, but at one time the law permitted slavery. Does your opinion stand up to the US Constitution? No, it doesn’t. This is the next step in this debate. Where are you on that matter?

[kylee2437]

@Chazmatazz269 everyone can agree that slavery is 100% wrong. You aren’t pro life if you aren’t caring about every life in the scenario given. There’s no such thing as pro life

[Chazmatazz269]

Ell oh ell! How difficult is it to stay on point? Grow up!
Also, you just flagged your “anonymity”, dummy.
Ell oh ell!

[kylee2437]

Wait is it dumb because you claim to be pro life, when you in reality don’t care about how the fetus grows up after it’s born?

[kylee2437]

@Chazmatazz269

[kylee2437]

When in reality you*

[Chazmatazz269]

You’re dumb because i’ve literally NEVER claimed to be “pro life”, fool. Prove otherwise, i defy you.

[kylee2437]

@Chazmatazz269 you have the emotional capacity of a 2 year old. If you want to converse about stuff, stop calling people dumb because their view points don’t match yours. You literally went out of your way to comment on everyone’s post just to call them stupid when they don’t agree with you and stand by what they believe.

[Chazmatazz269]

The truth only hurts liars, dummy. Ell oh ell!

[kylee2437]

@Chazmatazz269 an opinion can never be the truth or a lie. Calling people dumb but you can’t even intellectually hold a conversation on any adult topic.

[Chazmatazz269]

Do you REALLY believe anyone reading this entire thread believes YOU? Hahahaha!

[kylee2437]

@chazzmatazz269 believes me with what? My opinion? Lol good god I feel bad if you are actually 48. Scary that there’s adults that will never understand proper communication skills

[Chazmatazz269]

Haha! Again, tell yourself whatever, dummy. Any intelligent person following this thread knows what’s up.

[kylee2437]

@chazmataxz269 you literally repeat yourself everytime. “Wahhh booo hoo I can’t get someone to change their mind so let me emotionally implode” boring.

[slatyb]

I do not consider the death of a fetus to be murder. A fetus is not a baby.

[Chazmatazz269]

What YOU think doesn’t matter. That’s the law all over the US. Have you challenged that law ever, to any extent?

[slatyb]

@Chazmatazz269 it is not and never has been a federal law, nor is it the law in the majority of states.

[Chazmatazz269]

Ell oh ell! You’re on the “extra” side of ‘dumb’, huh?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1841

Every state in the U. S. has adopted either a statute or implemented a precedent enforcing this law. Any denial of this simple fact is pure ignorance or an outright lie.

[Surely]

That is something that I have wondered for a long time!

[OddBeMe]

Ehh, pretty sure it is. States label “unlawful termination of pregnancy” different. And DA’s can try to make headlines by charging additional murder to the fetus.

[Chazmatazz269]

Fair argument in complete ignorance of the constitution. Can you justify inside of the frame of the constitution?

[OddBeMe]

@Chazmatazz269 funny the constitution fills out the exact fraction of slaves but fetuses get nothing.

[Chazmatazz269]

That’s called a “straw man” argument. You can’t counter the point, so you start a whole new argument that you think you can win. So, you concede? Or do you wish to reconsider your position?

[OddBeMe]

@Chazmatazz269 it actually not. I could say you straw manned it by forcing me to frame it constitutionally.

[Chazmatazz269]

No, it definitely is. And you have no idea what you’re talking about if you think that’s what the straw man argument means. You’re not even close. Your argument MUST fit within the confines of the US Constitution because that is the framework for every law of the land, bar none. You don’t have to like it or agree, but that’s a fact. You can pretend voting for unicorns and rainbows will change the way this nation works, but you’ll continue to be disappointed if you do. Learn how the constitution applies to the laws that apply to you and you might actually make a reasonable argument.

[OddBeMe]

@Chazmatazz269 where does the law of unmanned aerial drones fit in the framework of the constitution?

This is how you right wingers try to get out of progressive ideas. Saying its not in the constitution.

[Chazmatazz269]

More straw man? You have no idea what i believe, let alone how i vote. You know too little and assume too much. You’ve chosen ignorance, friend. And that’s the end of this conversation. Much as you planned, i suspect. Bye.

[Anonymous]

If a woman can thrown herself off a bridge, why can’t her husband throw her off a bridge as well?

[jahaims]

Both are illegal

[Opinion Owner]

@jahaims
But only one would be charged with attempted murder if she lives.

[Chazmatazz269]

Not even close to the same. The fetus isn’t throwing itself off a bridge vs being thrown off a bridge.

[Anonymous]

The assailant made the choice, not the mother.


Not all states have fetal homicide laws.


A fetus is not a person.

[Chazmatazz269]

You are either grossly wrong or lying. There is a federal law, and every single US state has followed suit.

[Opinion Owner]

38 states have it. Fed has it. 12 do not. Look it up yourself before you start calling people a liar.

[Chazmatazz269]

If you’re so confident in your “facts”, why hide behind anonymity? Because you’re wrong. You’re welcome to be wrong, and there’s literally no shame in that. The fact that i suggested you’re either wrong OR a liar, and your response is ONLY to the part about being a liar suggests more than i imagine you’d like about your position.

[Opinion Owner]

You’re deflecting. Whether I’m anon or not doesn’t matter. Prove me wrong if you think you can. Just because you posture and say so doesn’t make it so. If you peruse all 50 states you’ll find no fetal homicide laws do not exist in 12 of them. That is no secret. PL 108-212 is the federal statute that makes killing a fetus an offense if committed in the course of a federal crime. It doesn’t trump state law. If you want to bring facts to the table, you’re free to do so. Otherwise drop the ad hominem and run along.

[Chazmatazz269]

It DOES matter, because you deliberately ignored the fact that there are TWO ways laws are enforced in the US, by statute and by precedent. Every single state in the US has either legislated the US code 18 USC 1841, or enforced it by precedent. Go check them stats. I stand by my original statement. YOU’RE EITHER IGNORANT OR LYING. Now, YOU prove ME wrong, moron.

[Opinion Owner]

Now you’re just talking out your ass. You clearly are not a lawyer. Run along.

[msc545]

Women are allowed to murder unborn children in many places still.

[Chazmatazz269]

Indeed, but the problem isn’t about “female” privilege. It’s about female parent privilege. Which SHOULD be unconstitutional by any reasonable standard.

[msc545]

@Chazmatazz269 The problem is ALWAYS about female privilege.

[888theGreat]

Because liberals are dishonest , lie , and are not consistent

[Chazmatazz269]

All can be said of conservatives. Is that really the limit of your thoughts on the matter?

[Cubus]

Left wings are just hypocrites.

[Chazmatazz269]

Wake up! They’re all hypocrites, left or right.

[Cubus]

@Chazmatazz269 But this question is only about left wings and their justification for abortion

[Chazmatazz269]

Be honest, would you have responded if it were the opposite?

[Cubus]

@Chazmatazz269 How "opposite"?

[Anonymous]

A fetus is not a human being.

[Danny_dan92]

You’re right. It’s a dog