What changed the country more: Covid or Trump?

[OddBeMe]

Trump

Covid

[Sirenboobzilla]

No one bothered me with politics till Trmp came in the picture... now it's a constant headache

[OddBeMe]

A fckn-men

[Dazed0N0Confused]

Trump, he made it a-okay to be a fucking asshole

[OddBeMe]

Agreed.

[nightdrot]

Voted COVID. While the name of President Trump provokes a fair amount of hysterics, the truth is that he was more symptom than cause.

To be sure, that symptom was not unimportant. It tending to have a reinforcing effect and given the technology of the times, with its' splintering cultural effects - in stark contrast to the homogenizing effects of earlier technologies like movies, radio and television - it has added to the harshness of the era. However, what Mr. Trump - and his counterpart Mr. Biden (there are fewer differences between them than meets the eye) - did was give voice to a rising sentiment in the nation.

That sentiment is a populism based on envy and resentment of nebulously defined "elites" and such. It is born, in large measure, because the nation is transitioning from a manufacturing/extractions based economy to a service/tech based economy. The net effect is that those groups that thrived in the previous era are being replaced as the center of economic and political gravity and this is generating, as noted, deep resentments. Thus giving rise to a populist era.

This, by the way, is not unique. The same thing happened during the mid to late 19th century as the economy transitioned from an agricultural/mercantile economy to a manufacturing/extractions economy. Thus figures like William Jennings Bryan and, in extremis, the Civil War. A conflict born as the slaveholding south - an agricultural economy - sought to retain its' position in the economic and social order. (Slaves were far less efficient than the machines that were gradually replacing them.)

Thus Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden. They brought about - and Mr. Biden has not brought about to date - no policy innovations to speak of. Unlike FDR or Ronald Reagan, they have embodied no new perspective on policy or a new agenda. They have rather merely repackaged old ideas and wrapped them in a populist tone. Mr. Trump bombastically so, Mr. Biden peevishly. Different tone, but essentially the same thrust to their policies, those policies really being mere echoes of what came before them.

COVID, by contrast, and particularly the response to it, has generated impacts that we are only beginning to understand. It created a giant uncontrolled social experiment in which society used itself as the guinea pig and we cannot even be sure what those effects will be. However, the long term indicators are positively frightening.

For one example, see also the impact of school lockdowns. This has caused a massive drop in tests scores among particularly younger children. It also broke down the socialization process of schoolchildren, thereby impacting the future of social cohesion. (This, in turn, again aggravated by the splintering impact of modern technologies. Technologies that, ironically, made possible the audio-visual learning model that is eating away at the aforementioned test scores and cultural socialization of young people.)

The echo effects of this are likely to be colossal. A whole generation of children that lacks the skills to navigate a modern economy. Worse, that will lack the social habits necessary to adapt to that economy as well as to their fellow citizens. The first hints of this the nation - and the world - are already seeing in warped economic outcomes and rising crime rates, to cite but two examples.

The list goes on, but the bottom line is that COVID has had, and will have, an impact that will not be fully measurable nor knowable for decades, if not centuries. Not unlike "the Black Death," although perhaps not nearly so dramatic, had in bringing the Middle Ages to an end. In that connection, it is to be regretted that the society, so absorbed in the technology and science of the pandemic, did not bother to look at the historic and sociological effects of previous pandemics. (Especially relevant being the 1919 Spanish Influenza pandemic.)

Bottom line, their chest thumping notwithstanding, Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden are relatively minor figures of a species that society has seen many times before. COVID, by contrast, particularly the society's historically ignorant handling of it, will haunt the world for generations to come.

[JDavid25]

Covid.. The democrats were just surprised and mad when Trump actually won.. Everybody was laughing thinking he was an idiot who wouldn't win, and then when they saw that he would they went into high gear with the smear campaign.. Covid was ridiculous though.. It ruined many people's lives and livelihoods.. Actually it was more the governments reaction to Covid than Covid itself..

[OddBeMe]

First part, absolutely right on us libs. But second…a million dead americans was no joke pandemic.

[JDavid25]

Of course.. And well there were too many factors coming into play with Covid honestly.. 1 million dead is no joke, but that was over time.. Like 2 or more years since that many people died.. And probably not all from Covid, but other illnesses they were struck with.

[OddBeMe]

So the doctors who wrote “covid” as cause of death on a million + death certs were wrong? Or was it a vast conspiracy?

[supercutebutt]

They combined into one.

[pers0n]

Because they are one and always were. Trump is just another crossdressing jesuit who is channeling the clockwork elves. In other words on the same team from the same tranny bloodlines as the rest of elite.

[exitseven]

Covid. It ruined a lot of small business owners and changed the way people imagine life in America. It may have cost Trump the election which further added to the debacle which is the 2020s. People are paranoid. I went to a hospital out of state to visit somebody. I was not wearing a mask and some guy was walking out and gave me a real dirty look.

[purplepoppy]

Covid changed the world, Trump just gave it a laugh.

[I_Can_Help]

... by calling it a hoax so we could watch people let down their guard and die.

[JDavid25]

@I_Can_Help He didn't call it a hoax..

[Sour-rose]

I've never seen such greed, stupidity and unbelievable things to happen in my life. Good times tho.

And the other is just a man.

[Anonymous]

Trump was like cancer to the country, and he is not getting any better. Donald Trump is a terrorist, racist, lying, cheating, stealing traitor. The sooner he gets arrested, the safer we will all be.

[Anonymous]

That depends on what you mean by Trump. Do you just mean what he himself did, or would are you also including all the seething hatred toward him and his supporters from liberals. If the latter, then I would definitely say Trump. The hateful divisiveness in the US today is far more harmful and dangerous than CoViD

[Tyrael]

Trump spread hatred, fear and lies. Covid had people locked in their homes unable to work. Both pretty bad in their own ways.

[misfittoy]

covid, i worked all through its madness on the front lines

[Kreneman]

We are still changing as a nation and we are still updating from the disaster that took place by in 2020 outbreak.

[Juxtapose]

Trump, because he was so outside of the system that the neoliberals had to come up with some fake pandemic to scare people into voting for them.

[OddBeMe]

A million dead americans would like a word.

[Juxtapose]

Same with vaccine injured Americans.

[OddBeMe]

Prove it.

[Juxtapose]

www.google.com/.../we-do-exist-some-americans-suffer-life-changing-covid-vaccine-injuries

www.google.com/.../vaccine-injury-compensation-programs-overwhelmed-as-congressional-reform-languishes-00033064

https://youtu.be/SQTHh88jDM8

https://youtu.be/XlGXFRs4ZOA

[Juxtapose]

https://youtu.be/Hb1Xm1uaedU

[Juxtapose]

https://youtu.be/SH1BM0JPbbo

[Juxtapose]

https://youtu.be/F32EXPw49iA

[Juxtapose]

Need I go on?

[blissinanarchy1]

Notice how the word “change” isn’t negative or positive, you can intend it to mean whatever you want.

[Snakeyes7]

More like the government's overreaction to covid.

[OddBeMe]

When a million people die dont you want over reaction?

[Snakeyes7]

With covid or because of covid? As far as how fast and loose we play with where the line is with what counts as a "covid death", I could unknowingly have it and be slaughtered by an axe murderer and that would count.

[OddBeMe]

Either or? Like HiV, vulnerable people may die of the cold. But it was HIV. Like covid.

[Snakeyes7]

The difference is you can die from covid on it's own but that is incredibly rare.

[OddBeMe]

I’m not a doctor. But when the vast vast majority wrote “covid” as cause of death I beleive them.

[Snakeyes7]

*Just* covid? With all of those years in med school, you'd think they would have learned to show their work by now.

[OddBeMe]

Imdont look ar death certificates but I’m sure their medical history is attached. If there's some weird conspiracy that doctors are wrongly assigning covid to deaths that would be big money for a researcher.

[Snakeyes7]

I am not necessarily saying that they are wrongly assigning covid as the cause of death. The news commonly calls them "covid deaths" which can either mean that they had covid but the symptoms of covid killed them or covid was involved but something else did.

I am saying they need to be more specific than that because the name is too broad. It makes people wonder about how much of a threat covid itself really is.

[OddBeMe]

more specific how? on what? Do you read all the death certificates or something?

[Snakeyes7]

I already told you. Was covid the direct cause or did it allow another disease to take hold? "Covid death" sounds ambiguous enough to leave some wiggle room for information like this so it is suspicious that they are trying to make covid, on it's own, sound a lot more dangerous than it actually is so it will make people feel better about the draconian lockdowns.

[OddBeMe]

And I’m asking ambigous how? Just from the news? In graphs? Or are you actually reading the death certs on all the million + dead Americans?

[Snakeyes7]

It's just how the news calls it and presents it. I obviously can't read all 1 million death certificates at once so I don't know but given that it works like the flu it makes you vulnerable to other diseases.

Given the way they say it, it sounds like they aren't being honest about the number of deaths actually caused by covid itself to make it seem like a bigger threat than it is.

[OddBeMe]

“It sounds like they aren't being honest”…. only if you're predisposed to anti covid politics, my friend.

[Snakeyes7]

Well I don't trust the media in general. They have been caught lying about tons of things that would make politicians look bad (exceptfor Trump, he's fair game because they have deemed him as the other).

[OddBeMe]

Politicians have been caught kying and yet we re-eelect them…

But i guess my overall point is we require extreme proof for things we’re ideologically against, and blindly accept what we agree with.

Why is covid ideoligical? Because it cropped up in time to ruin Trump’s re-election?

[Snakeyes7]

No it's because the government violated the rights of the people by locking them down, that is the last thing they should be doing. There is nothing in the constitution that says "oh yeah, none of this shit matters if there is a disease going around".

[OddBeMe]

I don't remember any actual consequences if you defied lockdown. Private businesses closed down because they chose to because there was a fckin pandemic.

[Snakeyes7]

Not in places like New York. The cops had to raid places that still remained open but only allowed their customers to order online. Atlas Gym was another example, a place that refused to close and had to deal with a lot of legal shit.

We have even had cases like Australia where the cops actually got violent if they saw you without a mask and I know you and I know that it happened in the US as well.

The whole thing was utterly disgusting.

[OddBeMe]

I’ll try to look this up but I’ll take your word for it. But it certainly wasn't numerous. Cops werent arresting lockdown defiers. Private businesses just closed down because of the insurance or lawsuit issues. It was a bitch time, but the jackboot govt troops just wasn't there.

Now for BLM marches, there are numerous jackboot cops detaining hundreds in unmarked cars by officers with no nametags or badge numbers.

[Snakeyes7]

Not all the cops were doing it because the cops that did it were in major cities, run by democrats by the way. The republican run areas didn't seem to want the cops doing any of that.

[joeldalton]

Both of them showed how purely corrupt and evil the elite/left are. They both shot holes in the idea that the government gives two shits about you.

[BLP11520]

In 2019 the economy was booming , unemployment low.. inflation was like zero. Covid and Biden... the wheels fell off. People are hurting 40 year high inflation, the border, Afghanistan, Ukraine < Hunters laptop on and on...

[Massageman]

The only "what " here is COVID- changed for the worse.
Trump would be a "who"- changed for the better.

[msc545]

Trump. Covid killed many people, but we are starting to control it a bit. Trump is wrecking our country and he is far from under control.

[msc545]

GREAT question!!!

[MiseriaCantareAFI]

trump

covid killed a lot but we can always replenish people. one person, changed how the country saw itself

And it's not a good thing

Trump, is the antichrist

[Anonymous]

Presidents no matter which have no real power to income change. They are puppets to give us the illusion of choice

[Anonymous]

Covid did a lot of good in killing off unnecessary population, the sick and the old.

[888theGreat]

Trump made it better

Covid was used by Democrats to make it worse

[Cedman]

Covid for sure, 1 million people died in the Us anone as a result of covid. Also people quit jobs as a result of covid leave jobs understaffed.

[dustybiker]

I can’t remember that person, so I vote b.

[summiter]

Trump was 100% worse than COVID and he still is.

[jshm2]

Trumps shitty response to Covid.

[AsaKyo]

I guess they both did in a way

[Anonymous]

Dude we get it, you love Donny. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Trump changed America

[OddBeMe]

He did. I know more about govt and elections now than before. Thats for fckin sure.

[nawtee_me]

Biden in worse than covid...

[Anonymous]

The idiotic response to Covid.

[Anonymous]

Both done a lot of damage

[jimmy2]

China miltarization of covid

[Fuentes]

TRUMP 2024!!

[SmokinAces2000]

Covid by far

[Anonymous]

Definitely Covid