Why is the dialog on Ukraine so... different?

[lightbulb27]

There's this view from former US Colnel, which is the Russians are building a large force, taking out the infrastructure (electricity)... then pouring in to take Ukraine... and it's coming soon. He reinforces, we need to end this war, negotiate.

And there's the CNN view, that often sounds like Ukraine "has got this".

[Lliam]

The guys in the first video have a grasp of the situation. The CNN video was devoid of substance.

Russia is going to take the Ukrainian military capability apart. No question.

If the U. S. hadn't engineered the coup in 2014, and if it hadn't nixed the Minsk agreement and refused any further negotiations with Russia, there would be no war. The U. S. is killing Ukrainians for its own geopolitical purposes, just like it did in places like Iraq, Libya and Syria.

And, as always, look at where the interests of the globalist bankers and industrialists lie.

[oh_k789]

The US still makes peace talks, which at least a part of the Ukrainian "government" (probably starting with the President of Ukraine himself) forbidden.

[RolandCuthbert]

Why do you look at American media for what is happening in Ukraine?

You could just ask someone who is in Ukraine. There are folks you can correspond with who are living this right now. I have a friend in Kharkiv. She was there when Ukrainians and Russians were fighting street to street. Since you are so certain Russia is doing so well, you can ask her what her and her family's daily life is like now.

I have another slew of friends who are in Dnipro and another older guy who is in Kiev. They can all tell you when the fighting was very bad and what they are experiencing now.

You don't seem to want to dispel your ignorance. You seem to want to make this into an American political issue as though Ukrainians are going to accept Russia annexing their territory simply because Americans say so.

[lightbulb27]

My question still stands, and that's my point. There is huge disparity communicated. I don't see how a US Colnel would be in the pocket of Russia, nor any of the other strategists saying the same.

It be interesting to hear first hand if I can find such videos, I don't speak Ukranian. But, what one experiences at that level is different than a strategic overview and analysis.

[RolandCuthbert]

No, the question does not still stand. If you wanted to dispel your ignorance you would do so. Obviously you do not. You want a political debate as though the war in the Ukraine should be a political football.

And you are just disingenuous. Who told you you had to speak Ukrainian to talk to a Ukrainian?

1. Did you know most Ukrainians do not speak Ukrainian. They speak Russian in their everyday interactions. They only consistently speak Ukrainian in the West.

2. Did you know that almost every Ukrainian is taught English as a second language in school? English is spoken widely throughout the country. Again, especially in the West.

The fact is you don't want your ignorance dispelled, you want to believe that somehow America tricked Russia into this war. That somehow Ukraine threatened Russia so it had no choice but to invade and take Kiev to remove their President.

But these are things that are not based upon fact. And here you are pretending that the "liberal" media is somehow tricking you. And that is something you could easily disprove by talking to the people who are living this now and have lived this for the last decade.

But you don't, because it would destroy this neat little fantasy you have created.

I am not talking to you across your weird political divide. I still have friends in harm's way. I still have friends who are in the dark without electricity, who hear missile attacks and explosions. Because your guy Putin is still attacking civilians because his army is losing so badly on the battlefield.

And this has gone on for years. All you folks who post about it now are late to the game. Russia has intimidated and meddled in the politics of Ukraine, Latvia, Georgia, etc. long before this. And we are supposed to wonder why these nations are so hostile to Putin?

[lightbulb27]

I can get more educated directly, I accept that. But should I talk to Russians as well?
I remain on the side of Ukraine.
my point stands... there is an extreme divide in the view. I don't view these as "right wing nut jobs". Is Scott Ritter nuts, is Tulsi nuts? are they spewing crapoloa because they are crazy? Or there is a legit view? Only the "left media view" is the correct one?

[RolandCuthbert]

You can. I don't know why you do not. You never have to go to "the liberal media". You can join any facebook group, any meetup organization, any chat channel where folks are talking about this every single day. Everyday, I get updates from the towns and cities in Ukraine. Everyday, we are praying for the safety of families and friends. And I come here and watch you post complete and total ignorance about these people who are dealing with this conflict.

You are so callous. This is all about your politics. As though Ukrainians have the time of day to consider "the liberal media" and the weird American political dynamic. They only know they have been invaded and they are fighting for their lives.

It is funny, you mention contacting Russians as though this some issue of "both sides" being the problem. The thing is you are as likely to find Russians who hate Putin and what he has done as you are to find Russians who support him.

But you won't find a single Ukrainian thinking being a refugee, being cold, hungry, and without water is a good thing. They are not going to submit to Russia or Putin.

[lightbulb27]

I'll go looking, I found this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLKvVkqHmJk&t=312s

[RolandCuthbert]

No, you didn't find anything. Why are you so obtuse. Find a person who lives in Ukraine and facebook them.

Do this so you can realize what their daily lives are like. Make sure you get them on the phone or facetime them. So you can experience the sirens that go off at all times of the day or night. Be with them when they are hiding in basements and in hallways.

You are supposedly religious, right?

Pray with them as they are terrified the next explosion may be them or someone they love.

Find that empathy that some of us humans talk about from time to time.

Good luck.

[USLegionary]

If Russia is only now building a large force they are in trouble as that means all the forces which they've already committed, the cream of the Russian military were not good enough. Imagine if during desert storm or invasion of Iraq the US army had to withdraw because they had lost too many tanks, men and aircraft and had too build a larger force.

[USLegionary]

The thing to remember about the media even YouTube is that a guy needs to sound dramatic as clickbait and CNN promoyrs the corporate intrests of their owners, during covid everything on CNN was sponsored by Pfizer for instance.

[lightbulb27]

It's possible russia is in trouble, but as well, they tried an approach and it didn't work. Now they replanned... knock out all energy, use overwhelming force. Without power, can't charge up those drones so much, without fuel the tanks don't move.. those in the field don't last long and turns to urban warefare in the cities, an absolute WWI/WWII level mess and would be for a long time, not unlike Iraq where resistance goes underground. true misery.
That's what it sounds like is forthcoming and I doubt there is "negotiating" an end at this point. Ukraine apparently is highly confident given their stand so far, but if those supply lines get cut, how do they endure?

[USLegionary]

The disabled the electricity but there are plenty of gasoline, kerosene and diesel tankers I'm sure for the drones most of which have poston engines. As far as I know the Ukrainians aren't really using tanks that much instead using drone strikes, satellite targeted artillery strikes and javelin anti tank missles. Russian tanks are outdated so are vulnerable. The Russian airforce has been largely grounded due to Ukrainian use of stinger missles.
WW2 style urban warfare is not something the Russians want, ot will cost them too much for too little gain, urban warfare is in ukraine's favour has it negates Russian superiority. In Iraq they alqueda basically ran out of trained personnel and it cost them too much, US and British soldiers were too well armed, had body armor, advanced sensors and optics, air support, artillery support and these medics and docyltotd in the world plus we're well trained and paid now compare that to the average Russian soldier going up against a Ukrainian insurgent who is better armed, trained and has body armor fighting for his country.
Aa for cutting off supply lines, Ukrainian supply lines are basically the entire EU boarder, they are getting more military aid than the Russian army was getting from the Russian government, it was the Russian army that was having trouble with supply lines. The Ukrainians are tracking the movements of every Russian battalion via satellite

[USLegionary]

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[oh_k789]

"Imagine if during desert storm or invasion of Iraq the US army had to withdraw because they had lost too many tanks, men and aircraft and had too build a larger force."

You may have no idea, not remotely a bit, of what the "US army" did to Iraq (and other countries).
That made their "wins" straight and quick. Exploding, razing, destroying everything, and everyone, using all kinds of the savagest and most treaty-prohibited weapons.

[USLegionary]

@oh_k789 not true at all. The US military destroyed the iraqi military in the field, shock and awe with minimal casualties not razing cities to the ground like the Russians.

[jshm2]

Largely it's saying that more of Ukraine "needs" to be given over to the West to "protect" it from Russia.

Basically the same sort of rhetoric used by the USA when Saddam was in Iraq. Look how that shit turned out, Ukraine will be similar.

[USLegionary]

Really up to the Ukrainian people. Saddam was an enemy of the United States and now he's dead, same as gaddafi.

[Lliam]

It's obvious who gets all their info from western media.