I just don't understand it. Were they all born yesterday? Do they also fall for Nigerian email scams?
Perhaps the image above (which I love) answers my question, but maybe there's another answer.
I know, Socialism fails all the time, yet people want to keep trying it. I point out, if you like socialism, move to Venezuela, a former rich nation that fell to it.
People think, that if they do socialism but make a little change here or there, that it will work. The entire concept is flawed though, because it encourages people to not work and reap the rewards of others.
There is aspects that work, such as usage based socialism. That is like the US highway system, the fuel tax funds the roads. You only have to pay for it, if you use it.
Socialism is even in the business world, the concept of insurance for example, car, health, etc... is merely corporate socialism.
I would rather have socialism like things be voluntary, if you don't like it, you can opt out.
I don't agree with using tax payer money to feed the poor, or house them. I think it should be done voluntarily, as I often donate money to charities to help out people myself. I hate it when the government forces me to do it against my will, such as to feed and house illegals who never should of came here.
Many people want the government to do everything for the, even wipe their ass, because they are too lazy.
I have suggested a few times (not my idea, heard it from someone else) that Socialist's programs can be voluntary for those that want them, but those that want them will have to pay for it.
Example, those that think college should be free, they can opt in... and get a free college education. They then pay a extra tax the rest of their life, we'll call it FET (free education tax) that they can never opt out, as they reaped the rewards, now they need to pay for others until they die.
The government can't go in the red and the tax auto adjusts as needed, to prevent it from going in the red, be it if the rate is 2% or 20%.
This way, those that support or want a socialist program can have it.
Usually people want someone else to pay for it though, not themselves... they dislike the idea of them having to pay for the program that they want so bad.
Which is inherently why they want socialism, it appears they'll get free stuff someone else pays for.
Maybe they like to be submissive and told what to do
Sure, socialism works. You've been living under it all your life.
Take a look...
See this?
It's the Preamble to the United States Constitution.
===
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
===
Now, let's take a look at this part of it:
"provide for the common defence"
There it is. Socialism. The Founding Fathers who crafted our Constitution understood that leaving the defense of the country to the states and private enterprise (that is, use capitalism) would have been a magnificent disaster. So, they had the foresight to make defense be a socialist program.
And it has been the largest, most successful socialist program in the world for 235 years.
In crass terms, the Founding Fathers understood this truism of human existence.
>>> If it's not important, the private sector can fuck with it.
>>> When it's important, don't fuck around.
Because they look at capitalism and are influenced by the bad sides of it like the rich getting wealthier while not doing anything for the common good and the poor people not being able to gain money. They look at the economy and see a system that´s built on growth but at the same time they see a decrease in ressources.
For them the biggest problem is the difference between rich and poor so they look for alternatives and find them in socialistic systems. I see that they hope a socialistic system might work because they think it´s better for the environment and better for the ressources of a future generation plus they hope for international justice.
I think their problem is that socialism might work in alternative communities that have the size of villages but they don´t work in structuring a whole nation since there will always be people that will have more because they take money or they work for it.
I think it´s a mix of people daydreaming of a supposingly better future hoping for a world where everyone is willing to share and people are less focused on money and materialistic stuff. Additionally to that I think many of those people never experienced the bad sides of socialism. Because the people I know that like that system grew up in it but they or their families never had issues with the government so they only remember the supposingly good sides.
A third reason is they think they could be better than the past and not make the same mistakes since they now know what went wrong and as any dreamer or pioneer is often called stupid by the majority they think they know better.
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I mean.. Capitalism is clearly not working nor is it particularly desirable considering I gain no happiness by the rich getting richer through nepotism and unequal political and social power in a society where effort is not rewarded. The only real option to that is to go for socialism which has much more promise and has worked great in countries like Sweden and other scandianvian countries.
@Soteris So, 31.5 Trillion Dollars in debt means nothing to you? 16.2 Billion sent to Ukraine? Totally fine. What you want is freebies for Education, for Health Care. So we are supposed to implement globalism Communism and like it? Plus, we need grown men trannies showering in Women's locker rooms? They can shower and show their junk to minors? Because why?
@bayoubob Oh please dont start talking down to me as if I do not have a greater understanding of these things than you. Like what the fuck is you peoples problems with sending aid to Ukraine anyway? You do realize that this is SAVING you money right? I mean, putting aside USA being on the right side of history FOR ONCE, the stuff you are sending to Ukraine is things that are obsolete and not really used by the US military anymore but must still be kept in storage and constantly maintained year after year after year.
Sure the equipment costed millions upon millions to build once upon a time but now they are nothing but a financial liability so sending it all to Ukraine is like cleaning up your own house. You should be fucking grateful. It is also used to destroy your rival AKA the reason why you have such a bloated military budget. Meaning, because you sent away all that junk, you can also lower your military budget from now on. Granted you won't do that because you are USA.
But that is just one thing. Free education? Do you know why pretty much every country wants to give their citizens free education? Because it boosts the economy like pretty much nothing else. The country has pretty much no use for 100 million farmers but if you give them free education and push them through higher education to get PHD's and stuff, suddenly you got 100 million specialists in every field imaginable that is going to transform the country.
@bayoubob But that is just the start. Free healthcare? Do you know why countries gives citizens free healthcare? Because a healthy population works harder than a sick OR dead one. ITS ALL ABOUT THE FUCKING MONEY! ALWAYS WAS! and here you are trying to sound like the reasonable one for suggesting we "save" money by pulling back the very services that countries invests in SPECIFICALLY TO MAKE MORE MONEY.
Listening to you people go on about "savings" or "efficiency" when in reality you got to spend money to make money is making my brain rot from the abject stupidity. You are all just reactionaries refusing to learn about how the world really works and as a result lashing out. Grow up.
Then we have the stupid culture outrage stuff. Fears about "trannies in womens locker rooms". If it bothers you so much, just have unisex bathrooms and again, GROW UP. I also love the whole kitty litter boxes in elementary schools. Do you know where that story came from? It was an emergency measure against school shooters to allow students to relieve themselves if they were stuck for a long time.
All you are doing is buying into propaganda and acting like a major Karen hyped up on moral panics. Its all so dumb.
If you are ready for some leaps in logic I can certainly show you his thought process. Starting from the kitty litter boxes he thinks the "left" is pushing this for social acceptance of people who identify as "cats" which is a propaganda story mimicking the arguments being held about transsexuals identifying as the opposite gender and using their bathroom which then in his head becomes a left wing value which because he is an American and subject to the "Red Scare" means that everything left wing is "Evil" but also "COMMUNIST!" so therefore it becomes the fault of the Communists that there are kitty litter boxes in schools in USA.
It is not the most rational thought but.. what would you expect eh?
How many times must we tell you? It's fantastic to get a booboo? It gets payed for? When something serious happens you are left to the Government to put you in a line. They "the government" dictates "PRIORITY."? We don't do that game. When my health is on the line. My health is on the line. Single payer health care is as retarded as someone telling me I can't cross a street much less defend myself.
@bayoubob You do realize that the US military only ever use a fraction of the stuff they technically "own" and bought previously? This is especially true when you consider that after the military replaces something its not like it has a little brother that can inherit the old stuff, or at least it used to not have one until it started to funnel its old military equipment into the local police to make sure that everyone had a private APC for funsies.
All of those billions upon billions upon billions you pay the military each year results in billions upon billions upon billions worth of old military gear that they at one point bought, then replaced with the next new gadget like its the current years iphone.
The stuff USA is sending to Ukraine is not the stuff that they themselves use. They do not want to give Russia (or Ukraine) access to their current technology. In fact, they dont even want to give them access to yesterdays technology. The HIMARS you see all over in the news is about as old as me with development back in the 1990s and service started in 2010. It is already old technology.
Another example would be the Bradly IFV and the M113 which are both just sitting in warehouses taking up space and having to be maintained so they dont rust away which means a lot of quartermasters in America would cry tears of joy if they were sent over to Ukraine to become someone elses problem.
As for printing money. Suffice to say, its a lot more complicated than that, as is sending money. You clearly do not understand even the basics of what you are talking about.
No. Printing money is printing money. Any Country can do that. Is Ukraine 30 Trillion in debt? Nope. Why aren't we providing them the paper and ink to do so, vs 19 BILLION DOLLARS? It's a proxy war for laundering money. We have to spend money on military and defense. We have to, because we are the SOLE super power. We don't want to be COMMIE. Erase our Military funds? Just like defunding the BLUE here? When will you wake up?
@bayoubob My god, this is so stupid. Okey, lets just take this one step at a time. First of all, you realize that money does not have an inherent value right? Something Something Inflation I hope rings a bell. The value of money is the demand for it, not the supply for it. If you print more money you are not adding any value, just lowering the value of each individual note.
As such, printing money is not a realistic way to pay off your debts. Never was. Even the government knows this and they are stupid as fuck.
Also.. 19 billion dollars for USA is chump change. There are bridges that cost more than 19 billion dollars. Not many, granted, but the fact that we are talking in the scope of a single bridge is very telling of the scale of national budgets. USA is by no means breaking its back to support Ukraine, its barely even noticeable where as it will have profound consequences in the future in favor of USA.
Also, sending away all your old stuff will actually save you money because military doctrine says you keep and financially maintain older stuff "just in case" which costs insane amounts of money every year for decades upon decades upon decades. Ill quote you, "When will you wake up?" You are clearly not getting this.
Yup. Money does not have inherent value. When you print more it does not add value. Yup. It's called a House of Cards. Yup. Printing money makes it worth less. Yup. Inflation. 40 year highs. Yup we must open our borders. Deadliest times of all times. 30 trillion in debt, 19 billion is chump change for who? The cucks that want a 400 million to have a "safety" net? For those that want to commit suicide via jumping off said Golden Gate Bridge? We can have illegals. Crossing. Make it so Chauvin, who in real peoples minds was a hero (Floyd died of 2 to 4 times the lethal amount of Fentanyl. The LEFT loves themselves abortion. They glue themselves to everything they can get their hands on. For what? Whamen's rights?
They want abortion, it was put into place? By who? Margaret Sanger. She wants to eradicate black people. Plain and simple. You bitch about me. When we tell you, fucking has consequences. It does. You can't erase a human, without telling us you won't erase humans, while your type wants to keep it and ask for money, CHILD SUPPORT. At the same time, it's double homicide, when she gets offed?
@Soteris Laugh My Fucking Ass Off Out Loud. It's called freedom. All free health care does is give you free carte blanche to getting boo boos taken care of free nintey nine. That is it. When you have something serious going on? The Government essentially acts like God. You get put on a waiting list, while they are judging whether or not you can receive treatment. Single payer health care does nothing for you. Any sane person knows they are better off with health insurance, co pays, what have you. In the event you have something super serious going on? Guess what? The single payer "Universal Health Care" does not pay for you. They don't.
@bayoubob What nonsense. Free healthcare does allow you to go to the hospital for "your boo boos" but it actually makes it cheaper and a more productive member of society meaning the national GDP goes up while the cost of healthcare goes down which in this case becomes lower taxes.
This is just basic logic. I am not surprised you dont have any.
@Soteris Wow. Just wow. A measure against school shooters? That is your answer for kitty litter boxes? No. That's as stupid as LEFT BENT TARDS GET. That's a new one to me. When the "mostly peaceful" BLM people raped, pillaged, burned, looted, murdered everything in site. I heard something really retarded, the LEFT bent morons thought it was Trumpians doing all of that? It's happening outside their door? They want guns. Fuck me. Libtards who were felons wanted and did take guns to defend themselves against their own type? Makes no fucking sense. That is disease of no measure.
These LEFT BENT FELONS, or life time criminals don't abide by laws. They get butt hurt when they can't legally drive a fucking vehicle. Once they get those rights back, they do the stupid thing. Get another DUI, upon their piles of DUI's. Upon their arrest records. Conservatives don't do that. We are law abiding citizens.
@bayoubob This has nothing to do with my answer, its their answer on how to deal with keeping a large group of children trapped in a location without access to a toilet or running water. Its either this, or pee in the corner of the room. And again, its a decision made by the teachers and not a guidance by politicians which is probably even worse since its literally the job of politicians to lead on solving problems like these yet they are busy looking at dick picks from Hunter Biden or something.
And off you spin into insanity land again. You honestly can't talk for like 30 seconds without devolving into a bubbling puddle of conspiracy theories and stupid right wing talking points that are literally irrelevant to the conversation.
I'll be honest, I supported it for a while too. My parents grew up in a Socialist country, and yes there was silencing of the opposition, there were food rations, but Poland was probably the least socialist of the socialist countries, and there were a lot of good programs too, like government funded schools, healthcare and even holidays. My mom still often says that Socialist Poland was better than America in many aspects, because at least no one was hungry and people weren't sleeping on the street or dieing due to lack of healthcare.
But I think the biggest reason people support it, is because they view countries like Sweden, Iceland and Norway as socialist, while they actually aren't. True socialist countries which we refer to as Communist are countries like China, North Korea, Singapore, Cuba and Nazi Germany.
No. What America does best, and still does to this day, is to not kowtow to remotely becoming like any Commie First World Country. We don't want to be like Scandinavia, the UK, Germany, Australia, Canadia, New Zealand. We fight hard to be the FREEST COUNTRY. You must understand sending $16 billion to Ukraine is not right. We just print money? Why can't they print their own? It's simple. Print the money and be merry. And you bitch about America having hungry and Homeless? All that money can go here? America FIRST. How simple is that?
Seriously. I can't even begin to describe how sick I am of hearing Conservatives say we're the greatest country on earth, when we have the lowest standard of living of any first world country. Because being able to shoot machine guns is more important than providing affordable housing for people. Freedom to live in a tent in the middle of the city
and shoot up heroine all day, or having the freedom to walk into a store and steal something with no consequences is nothing to be proud of. America is NOT the model nation.
Also, if government entities are supposed to abide by the Constitution, why don't public schools allow free speech on campus?
Why don't public schools allow free speech on campus? We do!!! That's our purpose. It's why you bitch about "machine guns." They aren't machine guns? A machine gun means you pull the trigger and it sprays bullets like Capone on Valentines DAY. VALENTINES DAY MASSACCRE. Spray 45 acp automatic. Automatic. So, there's literally 60 plus calibers in the AR-15 platform. It's all SEMI AUTO. AR does not stand for Assault Rifle. It stands for ARMALITE. If you want to ban the AR-15? It means you want to ban every gun. Yet, you want PEOPLE to have their rights. Their rights to have guns for hunting. You want people to have their right to a 9mm. You know nothing of guns. Period.
@KostasKouvalis We don't have the lowest standard of living of any first world country. We have the highest standard. Why don't public schools allow free speech on campus? Slap me and call me Sally. Our public schools can and colleges do it to it, right and left. What you are bitching about is? The LEFT BENT folks. They are the ones who bitch and moan whilst bitching and moaning. The LEFTIES or you couldn't bitch without free speech. If you are to be correct? You would get how the left bent media stifles everyone.
Some of it is personality, people who aren't as productive/intelligent/or work as hard can do much better by way of re-distrubtion.
Some of it is addiction... once get used to it, don't want stuff taken away.
Some of it is legit - some people know how to game the system, have power to do so and get away with it, and thus become far richer than everyone else. It's not fair because they control the laws and systems.
Mostly because they believe it will create this beautiful utopia where we are all equal and the world is sunshine and rainbows and there is no evil and unicorns are everywhere. They don’t realize that we are all different and have different behaviors and outcomes. You would think they could look at Venezuela and see it doesn’t work and never has.
They are ignorant and lazy. They believe the lies of everyone having plenty for life under socialism even though every time it is tried in a country it leads to many deaths, poverty, and suffering with only a small minority in power that greatly benefit by robbing the rest of the people.
The people that have actually lived under it and left their socialist countries hate it because they KNOW what it is like.
Socialism has absolutely nothing to do with that silly meme. There's plenty of hard working people who support it. Socialism simply means you get paid and treat fairly and not exploited.
I'm well read a
enough thank you
Money doesn't grow on trees. You are a virtue signaler. Every dime you earn goes to you. You would never sacrifice any of your earnings to anyone else. If you were so fantastic, you would take every dime you earned and "pool" it, then give it away. It wouldn't go to your retirement. You couldn't retire. You wouldn't invest in the S&P 500. Socialism means everything you work hard for is for naught.
Because most people exchange their time for money and they understand that they would be better off if the lion share of the value of their labour were not going into the pockets of the owners of the means of production.
While that can be true in some cases it is not an absolute rule and it certainly does not apply to all profits so no that argument is not going to work for you and it is also not reflected in / supported by observing reality.
Regarding your update:
If you are not capable of arguing your point maybe you shouldn't be talking about things that you clearly do not understand.
That claim is also not supported by evidence.
So no, as of this moment that is absolutely not the case.
What would traditional family values be without socialism? Pass the salt wasn't a cash offer or debt but an assumption of future passing of salt to the next and next person who needed.
Because they believe they will get free stuff without working for it.
Because they are gullible, want their way or no way, spoiled, rotten, temper tantrum throwing, violence inducing, police hating, lack of discipline from their parents, greedy, obnoxious, loud mouthed, babies!
They didn't live in Eastern Europe in the previous century. They have very idealized view of how socialism looks like.
My Cuban and Russian friends don’t. Most university graduates do
The intention of socialism is good hearted. The execution always fails.
Socialism and Communism only look good on paper, we’re not designed that way.
What is socialism. Explain it to me. Bullet points or a easy few sentences. I’ll wait.
* Major industries, banks etc. being controlled and run by government, rather than privately.
* Limited private ownership rights, restrictions on private property, it's sale, possession etc.
* Centralised, top-down economic management, rather than free market control.
* A large bureaucracy to handle said management.
I hope I didn't keep you waiting too long :D
Again…you’re looking at the definition as “everything” being controlled by the “community”. But it’s just what we allow our community to cover. Like social security.
And you’re making pretty grand claims that every community as a whole morphs into totalitarianism. Which just isn’t true. But I appreciate you getting back to me in a timely manner. Lol
Yeah it’s very socialist with govt healthcare, lots of govt services for citizens. They are technically considered Democratic Socialism- which is what Bernie has been shouting about in his overgrown suits lol.
Your idea of “socialism” has combined with communism. That’s not a fair view.
so true which is why the young generation is fat, slow and lazy hating on people who actually work and live a stable responsible life
I think you're confusing Communism and Socialism. Socialism just levels the playing field
Because they have no idea how many people have been murdered by this ideology.
Well in the United States it isn't that many surely not enough that you want to see an end to your postal service? Obviously the answer should have been zero really but American's sure do love murdering people.
FYI socialism does not mean 'run by a mass murdering dictator' it means 'shared ownership of the means of production'.
@Guffrus Doctrine and reality are worlds apart.
It sounds very fair in theory. It just doesn't work in reality.
Because it’s working RIGHT NOW in whichever country you are living in. You are almost certainly completely misinformed about socialism.
Because they haven’t lived through it and got indoctrinated to believe that it’s a good thing
Any old person accepting social security or medicare would support some aspects of socialism.
"Social" security.
Most people dont like the meme version of socialism. They like the European economic version, where countries have a higher middle class.
It's the Far Right who think most people want Russian style Socialism.
Clearly, you don't understand what socialism means. You must be a Republican.
I like that image
Lots of FREE medical care
There was a great time when Australia and the rest of the FREE WORLD banked upon us. Banked upon us to save your asses from Japan. Just to save your balls from Hitler. WW2 is and will always be the GREATEST GENERATION that EVER EXISTED. Australia LOVED US. They paraded our soldiers thusly. We don't live in that world no more.
I’m an American
Because brain no worky
Uneducated and never studied history
Wish they all move to Russia
Ignorance
Free shit!
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