So how does this goofy race nonsense apply to Latinos?

[RolandCuthbert]

So the race silliness just never stops. I am told now that Latinos are divided into different races. I am not sure how this works. But I guess the nonsense kind of goes like this. That there are "Black" looking Latinos (who oddly enough were never told this, eg; Sammy Sosa, Big Papi)

Slammin' Sammy Sosa!

mestizo-looking Latinos (someone has to explain that one),

I am just kidding. I haven't a clue as to what a Mestizo looking Latino looks like. I just grabbed this photo

and "White" ones.

I guess Sofia Vergara is light skinned enough? I dunno!

So Latino culture doesn't really exist. Only race matters. Or I guess. . . or I don't know. I was told this was simple.

Like Dominican Culture, which I thought I could just say was Dominican culture, supposedly has this concept in it. But maybe it doesn't or. . . well. Racism is just crazy anyway. Let's see what a Dominican says.;

She claims she is "tri-racial". But raciology says she is wrong. Based upon some stuff I will never understand. And that they can never define. I would just she is Dominican. I would not do the tri-racial stuff. Because I don't do race. And if she is not interested in talking about similarities in culture, there is no need to engage her. But I wouldn't try to define her. I would just now that culturally we don't share much.

So Latinos are not just Latinos? They don't just have like their culture/ethnicity? Within each group is a sub-division of race that everyone understands?

Updates

1 y

So I just want to make sure that folks understand why I engage these crazies. 1. They post this nonsense every single day. 2. Then they pretend that race is objective. When they can't define it objectively and they have no science to back up their assertions.

[NathanDavis]

latino is not a race...

latino is not a culture...

latino is just a common denomination that simplifies things... and it is an umbrella term that applies to so many things

and yes, there is at least 40 different cultures on the other side of the river

and no... you cannot just simply pretend that every latino has the same nationality, you cannot simply reduce all latinos to the same cultural background, and no... you should not expect every latino to identify with all other latinos as if they were all the same

just as it would be a mistake to pretend that all Europeans are the same, or that all Africans are the same... and not all Asians are the same

Latin America is one of the most mixed regions in this world... and it is a mix of everything, genes, cultures, geographies as well as as socio-economic-political backgrounds

and is also true that when you live in Latin America you are NOT a latino, and you do not identify yourself as a latino per se... the differences in cultures are so much more marked and very much specific to your geographic condition, so you go by nationality...

but the moment you go to the USA, you now become a latino, because Americans will see you as that... they will not see you for your true identity or your actual cultural background, they will just pack you with the rest of other latinos in the USA, lol

[RolandCuthbert]

I am just the messenger.

I don't believe in race. So I would never classify Latinos as one? Like I said, I thought Latinos were just Latinos. Some were Dominican, others were Mexican, another group was Puerto Ricans, on and on, etc. . And all of these groups were even culturally different from each other. It is just we group them in America for the purposes of politics and because of the weirdness of race.

So you are going on about differences in Latin folks. I don't need that.

I need to understand what Latinos do with it comes to race. Because two racists. . one of whom claims to be Latino, say that Latinos are "White", "Black" and Mestizo.

And I told them the idea was garbage. They told me this was the only logical, reasonable, and objective conclusion that anyone could come to.

So I don't know if you are Latin or not. But do you or your folks identify yourselves using this grouping mechanism?

[NathanDavis]

the one thing that needs to be understood here is that, while in America you can observe a very clear discrimination based on race and this is racism... in most of the Latin American countries, what you observe is a very clear discrimination based on socio-economical classes

and then, you do have to understand that the often, very marked differences in socio-economical status are also in coincidence with the color of your skin (which is something that a lot of people happen to relate to race)

so yes... in many regions of Latin America you could notice the fact that among the elite groups and the higher classes there are a lot of people with fair skin while in the lower classes (class in this context means socio-economical status) are mostly of darker skin, and the reasons for this to be the case are many not just one, still, the main reason would be the fact that historically, those of European descent, origin or background did hold onto power, and also formed most of the elite during 400 years or so... so yes, for the last 100 years or so, it makes sense that there's a lot of them in those spheres

so... discrimination based on social status that happens to MOSTLY reflect or correlate in a way to the color of your skin, but this is just one way for some people to perceive it as racial issue and a racial divide

generally speaking, there is no systematic racial divide in Latin America that is based on skin color... but there is a very clear and systematic discrimination and divide that is based on social status

and again, it will vary from one region to another... so it will be much more present in some countries while not so much in other countries

and by the way, it is not just the socio-economical status that will divide groups of people in Latin America, there will be also cultural factors, geographical factors, political factors as well as historical ones and many of these can also overlap with the color of your skin

[RolandCuthbert]

So what I am getting is you think this idea is wrong. That the differences in class, opportunities, etc. can look like racial differences. But everyone identifies with similar ethnic groupings eg; Dominican, Columbian, Brazilian, Peruvian, etc.

And by the way, race in the United State is way more complicated than this description. Race was actually created for political purposes. But that is another topic entirely. I am saving that for another take.

Thanks, I just wanted to clarify your position.

[NathanDavis]

What I really am saying that it is not something to just simplify and expect for it to be correct...

and what you just said is also wrong... Dominican, Colombian, Brazilian and Peruvian are not ethnic groups... those are just nationalities, and this proves my point... trying to reduce a more complex concept like ethnicity to a passport is always wrong

anyway... yes, at the end of the day down here in the further south... race is not so much of a concept as it is in the USA, because most people are mixed with two or three different backgrounds and then it gets kind of weird, because you could still face discrimination because of the color of your skin, but there won't be much talk about race or genetic background... it will be more about socio-economical status

for example, in Mexico... if a person of light skin and another person with darker skin get into arguments because of their differences, they might attack each other based on the color of their skin, but the stupidity is most likely to be fueled by the difference in socio-economical status... is not like either side will bring the 300 to 600 years of history, and the issues with slavery, oppression or whatever

they will just stupidly, argue... about the difference on the color of their skins and not about who is more or less Mexican, not where or how did you get those genes... it will be about socio-economical status and the discrimination that can come with it

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't know deliberately misunderstanding me or not.

You are trying to be uber-specific and telling me that I can't understand the Latino identity as a Latino understands it. That point was concede decades ago. But you are refusing to listen. And you appear to have confusion over what race and culture are.

As for this distinction of ethnicity vs nationality, I was not trying to describe the Latino identity. I was trying to answer my question. Because you never did directly. The claim put to me was that Latinos identify with race and divide themselve three racial categories.

I don't think you understand the question. So let me ask, do you understand race as it is defined in the United States? Because you bought up history and slavery. That is African-American Culture and History.

That is not race theory. I can explain race theory to you if you like.

And then maybe you can then answer my question.

[NathanDavis]

I clearly told you that Latinos do not divide themselves by race, no...

and I explained to you exactly why and how we do NOT

everything else you see, is what you want to see...

also... black people in America are not the only ones that were ever slaved, that's an ignorant thing to say

[RolandCuthbert]

Okay. . . so you are answering that Latinos do not see themselves as three distinct races.

So you have answered the question and I won't ask it again.

But now I am going to take you up on something you said. Because this is indicative of the way you approach me. You don't read what I post. You read into it. I never said anything about African-Americans being the only group that was enslaved. You can call us Black people if you want or whatever. I don't think you really know how want to use the term.

I noted that you responded to my question by talking about slavery, racism, etc. As though I wanted to hear about all the issues you have with "Black" folks. So I corrected you and explained, this question was not, "please enumerate all the issues you have with African Americans". My question was specifically about Latinos identifying as three separate distinct races.

My point was that your response was about what you dislike about African-Americans. Because black people. . . the "race" are all over this planet according to race theory. So it is silly to claim every single black person (the fake race) has the experience of living in America and identifying with our history here. The history of Africans the U. S. is called African-American History.

[NathanDavis]

have fun and good luck trying to make it seem like I have something against black people lmao...

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, this was really frustrating. I wanted you to give an opinion on something very specific.

Why was that so hard?

[RonStone45]

Black latino: A black person from a latino country who culturally is latino but the majority of his dna is of sub sahara stock or looks mainly African.

native American & Meztizo: A person of mixed race descent involving a mixture of southern european, native American dna, often times they also have a bit of north African, middle eastern, sub sahahra dna. When you think of mexican or latino people people that look like this typically come to mind

faces-of-mexico-11-1432743. jpg (745×1199) (freeimages. com)

RTS2FHZ2. jpg (4072×2715) (nationalinterest. org)

Mexicano. jpg (1068×1580) (globetrottergirls. com)

White latino: People who could pass as white because they look pure white or have very european facial features that makes them white enough to pass as white

natalie-martinez-5. jpg (300×250) (thefamouspeople. com)

Natalie Martinez

19f34c7f25d5a9f8dcd41b76d0e0636c. jpg (1024×1024) (pinimg. com)

Lionel Messi

lqndgi_canelo-alvarez-boxing-50828-in-sept-13-2017-file-photo-canelo-alvarez-attends-640x745. jpg (640×745) (breitbart. com)

Canelo Alvarez

[RonStone45]

lol of course the images decide not to show up.

[RonStone45]

White latinos are people of pure southern white descent and or mainly look white (white enough to pass as a white person from their skin & facial features) who are culturally Hispanic and or are of hispanic descent from latin america.

[RolandCuthbert]

You know nothing about science.

Just because a person has most of their DNA from a certain continent, does not mean their skin color will be a certain shade.

It is crazy to even insinuate that.

https://preview.redd.it/2slmzvxrg9471.jpg

When two parents get together you can take an analysis of their DNA. And you can speak in terms of probabilities about what will get passed onto the child. But skin color, eye color, etc. are all variables.

And this is where things get batshit crazy. Your racist friends hate "Black" folks. So why do you let them lump "Black" Latinos in with "Black" folks? Their whole point is that sub-sahara Africa is inferior. Yet you are connecting "Black" Latinos to Africa. When you know someone like Sammy Sosa's nightmare is to be told he is a member of the "Black" race. He is doing everything he can to sever that connection. He probably would not had risked that surgery if he could have just been able to be accepted as being "mixed-race" or whatever.



@Fuentes I hate to keep bothering you. But these dudes are representing some insane craziness. And I need to understand the point of view of "Black"/Afro Latinos.

[Fuentes]

@RolandCuthbert it comes over and over where these guys forget that Africa is a continent. If we see a black person from Belize you can't just connect him to Africa if he was born in Belize a Central American country. So no you can't connect everything to Africa and Jesus these people are insane so what the hell are Morrocans who border off Spain, which is Europe or Egypt or South Africa or what about the men who look like Arab descent in Sudan & Ethiopia who live in Africa? Hahaha so if Elon Musk goes to South or Central America he will be told he must be black hahahahaha cause he was born I'm Africa.

It's just poor education, however some raza communities are racist and just see black as black but they won't see them as Africans just BLACK hahaha this guy is ignorant as fuck hahaha

[RolandCuthbert]

@Fuentes Dude, he is so confused, he confused me!!! I get he doesn't want to be "Black" or have anything to do with "Black" folks. But he is actually claiming the racial identity crosses cultures. As though every dark-skinned Latino would look into the mirror and see a "Black" man.

Sammy Sosa, never saw himself as being "Black".



He became pepto bismol for a reason. I don't hate him for it. But it had to be frustrating being in America. He was raised as a mixed-race person. But in America, they kept trying to make him into a "Black" man. . . like the rest of us. He had no cultural connection to us. He was raised to be Dominican. His heroes were Robert Clemente, Julio Franco, Tony Pena, etc.

I am sure he didn't even know who Jackie Robinson or Willie Mays were. They don't teach African-American History in the Dominican Republic!

I met some fellas from Belize once. These two dudes actually did make a cultural connection to Africa and African-Americans. But everyone is different.

One of these guys was my boss on a project.

Fuentes, this man was freaking genius. He was totally disorganized. But dude built a computer network of over a thousand seats over in Paris, France from the freaking ground up. I was sent over to help. We were there for a month. Me, him, and a brother from Senegal.

We had a blast!!!

[RolandCuthbert]

@ronstone45 Ah. . . so running for the hills?

We have added a number of Latinos here. They of course are providing a completely different viewpoint from the supposed "objective" one you were rendering. You know. . . the one that every Latino supposedly agrees with.

I am going to add quite a few more in the coming days.

[Fuentes]

Lolol he's just a delusional dude reminds me of that hispanic cool guy who thinks he dictates how Mexico works and he's only Dominican lol no paisa in his blood or nothing lol just an islander from FL lol 😂

[RonStone45]

Bro you're too stupid to have a conversation with or you are playing dumb on purpose to frustrate people like me who know basic facts.

[RolandCuthbert]

Haha!!! I am playing dumb? Dude, there are other Latinos here. You claims "basic facts" about how they live and how they identify.

Defend your lies and aggressive ignorance against them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vyam1dqfM

[RonStone45]

There's this thing called dna tests you fucking retard.

[RonStone45]

And what is self evident on how people look, there was a racial hierarchy system in latin america.

[RonStone45]

Those Dominicans look black cause they have black dna but they also aren't pure black, but since they mostly look black I would consider them black.

[RonStone45]

Simple easy self evident stuff to figure out.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah fuckward. . . there are DNA test. Do you see them up there? Those are African-Americans. You ignorant racist ass doesn't realize that 25-35% of the AA genome is from Europe.

[RolandCuthbert]

What do the other Latinos in this thread say? Do you see anyone confirming your batshit nonsensical beliefs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNy0oaxGelE&t=614s

[Fuentes]

@ronstone45 So if someone was black in Mexico you would assume there a black African? Dude go outside

[RonStone45]

@Fuentes I would consider him black.

[RonStone45]

Roland, African americans are still black even if they have 30% African in them, even if they are 60% european and 40 percent African they are still black if they clearly look black which they do most of the time.

[RonStone45]

even if they have 30% european in them*

[RonStone45]

And race is more than skin color

[Fuentes]

Lol In your delusional world their black

[RonStone45]

@Fuentes Because they are black? They are clearly not Meztizo, Native American or white. A black person can be mexican by nationality. But people associate the typical Mexican looking person as Meztizo.

[Fuentes]

@ronstone45 let's see what state do you live in? I wanna know then all of this will make sense?

[RonStone45]

@Fuentes I live in a liberal area.

[RolandCuthbert]

@ronstone45 You are such an idiot. No one says that African-American Culture is not real. We happily call ourselves "Black" people in the United States. But that is a reference to culture. It is stupid and silly to expect people raised outside the United States to understand our culture and historical perspectives, just because they have dark skin.

As for your racial designations, they change with society and nation. I told you then and I am telling you now, many dark-skinned people do not believe in race as you have defined it and do not wish to be grouped with other folk from the African continent.

And they voice that desire by telling you, "they are not black".

You keep saying that you have the power to re-classify them. That anytime we are confused about someone's racial identity, we should come ask you.

No one has the want or need to contact a batshit racist troll on the net to figure out how people in Dominican Republic, Brazil, etc. identify.

We know what they think by asking them. And what they think about themselves is far more important than what an anonymous coward says or believes.

[RonStone45]

They can say that they are not ''black'' all they want that doesn't change the fact that they are by their physical appearance, skull shape and genetics/dna.

[RolandCuthbert]

The fact is all of that is subjective. You are fucked up. In your mind, based on your social upbringing, there is a standard for who/what is "Black". Then you have the nerve to side with batshit racists here at GaG who claim that "Black" people have specific beliefs/behaviors than other people.

This while claiming to be a Latino. Knowing full well that there are Latinos with dark skin, who have no difference in behaviors, celebrate the same holidays, and remember the same history as other Latinos.



You then proceed to a phenotype argument. The fact is the only thing that relates Roberto Clemente to the make-believe black race is his dark skin. Anyone can make the argument his facial features are not African.

Also, anyone can perform DNA tests and figure out a large portion of the DNA from people in the Dominican Republic is Indigenous and European. As well as African, which may be why some of them are dark skinned.

Fact: When you rely upon your ability to assess someone physical features, you are only telling us how you were socialized to see people. Nothing is scientific or objective about your analysis.

Leave that to science.

[RonStone45]

The baseball player's facial features look clearly African to me WTF LOL. If that is Roberto Clemente he is clearly a black man.

[RonStone45]

People in the Dominican Republican prob have different various degrees of the racial groups they are a part of, it will differ from person to person, if some look black then I consider them black, if they look native American I consider them native, if they look meztizo I consider them meztizo if they look white I consider them white. Their dna tends to reflect their appearance, but since black genes are dominant that means that even though that for example a person might not be majority black in the dna , they might look mainly black by appearance so that means they would be considered black due to their physical appearance.

[Fuentes]

@ronstone45 What state I live in Cali and I'm half Mexican and I can tell you if I was ever born on Mexico they won't just call me black or call me African because I was born there, your just delusional af bro hahahaha go touch grass or something.

[jshm2]

Latinos' technically aren't a race.

Chileans are different people from Brazilians. But American "simplification" is why they are bunched into a single term.

I suppose you will understand better why Arabs tend to hate Americans too.

As Arabs too are not a single race, A Saudi Arab is very different from a Syrian Arab.

[RolandCuthbert]

I am the culture man.

I don't do race.

I do culture.

NO ONE IS RESPONDING DO THE QUESTION.

Two racists claimed that this is how Latino Culture is.

That there are "White" Latinos, "Black" Latinos, and Mestizo Latinos.

That Latinos are racially divided.

Somebody here needs to respond do that.

[NostalgiaSenpi]

I dunno. On a superficial level, a lot of people can look very different, even those of the same ethnic background. If you try to split people by arbitrary thing like skin color, it starts getting extremely messy very quickly. You can have two children result to look very different from each other and share the same parents. It gets crazy. We can split you on where your parents come from, but at a certain point it's just ridiculous, too.

[RolandCuthbert]

So they are correct? There are three racial groups to be observed when talking about Latinos?

[Anonymous]

Shakira or Canelo are good examples of light skinned Latinos.

America still had the color boxes from the 1950s which are largely formed on the kkk views on Hispanics and Latinos.

[RolandCuthbert]

But I am concerned about how Latinos see themselves. Because the one racist who claims to speak for all Latinos says Latinos identify with three different racial groupings. And that's what I asked with this question.

I know how racists see me. . . and other dark-skinned Latinos. But I also think racists are brain dead freaks.

I care much more about how these various groups feel about themselves.

[Opinion Owner]

In my experience Latinos generally identify as those from south Americans. Brazilians, Argentinians etc. Hispanics generally cental america all regardless of race and spainish speaking countries in the Americas regardless of race and even then Hispanic and Latino identity seems to be more of something that exists in America with those in central and south America preferring to identify proudly as their nationality Mexican, Argentinan , Chilean, Brazilian etc. Perhaps Latino snd Hispanics is part of us twisted race politics. Latinx seems only to exist here.

[RolandCuthbert]

This is what I am trying to get to. I would expect that outside of the United States, people have totally different ways of identifying themselves within their own nations. Those identities are usually based upon the historical record in those areas/nations.

But no one is explaining does that mean that Latinos identify as being three racial categories.

Is just seems to be an opportunity for some folks to grind their ax about political issues they dislike.

So do you have answer?

Or. . ?

[Msputiton]

Tell a "latino" they black, and watch they reaction

[HippieVeganJewslim]

A very dark-skinned boy named Tyron swears he ain’t Black, that he’s Dominican.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Latino is a Yankee word meaning of Latin America.

[RolandCuthbert]

The question is still unanswered.

Are Latinos divided into three racial groups?

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Maybe even more.

[RolandCuthbert]

Make it make sense.

More races? If there are more than four races, I don't get your theory.

And in race theory, race decides beliefs/behaviors. So literally, Latino culture does not exist. . . since;

Culture can be defined as all the ways of life including arts, beliefs and institutions of a population that are passed down from generation to generation.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Then my culture is totally different from my parents’ culture. Most Latinos are mixed anyway. I use the term racial group not. If North Europeans are different race than light-skinned Latinos, then South Sudanese (ever see how dark they are?) are different race than many other Blacks.

[RolandCuthbert]

You keep mixing concepts of race and culture together in a way that is nonsensical.

Do you think that race and culture mean the same thing? Because the way you use them, it does not seem like you have a static definition for either.

I can tell you my thoughts on this clearly, concisely and exactly.

Race is garbage. Culture is real. The only thing race can tell you is how people get treated in the U. S.

And I could care less about how a person is labeled. I am looking for the label they use for themselves.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

I agree that race is rubbish but racism exists pretty much everywhere. The first openly racist people I’ve met were Serbs. Culture is different from race as it’s possible to change one’s culture. Ever heard of cultural appreciation? Culture is way more than just skin colour, the latter of which I doubt makes any speck of the culture. About labels, I know not what labels people usually use for themselves, just my own labels: hippie vegan Jewish Muslim nerd autistic fruitarian Russian polyglot (not sure how many of which are labels, but Nevermind) etc. I love other people how they are, not by their labels.

[RolandCuthbert]

But here is the thing. That’s yet another circumstance of culture. So many people don’t get this part.

Serbians don't claim he is genetically unique. Serbians don’t go around saying they can tell each other apart from the regular folks by looking at each other. The issues in that region go all the way back to before WWI. The issues between different ethnic groups is historical.

Racism is totally different.

A racist doesn’t argue about some historical wrong committed against his group. This is not about differences in cultural perspectives. A racist states that his race is simply genetically superior to another race. From his perspective, this is not history, this is about science or objective fact.

I have posted this meme a hundred times at GaG.

No one seems to understand what William Shockley is saying. He doesn’t hate “Black” people. He just sees members of the “Black” race as unable to adapt to his version of civilization.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Thanks for the quote, but what he says sound like we should follow the stereotypes of peoples of different races. I hope I’m wrong. Blacks are just as able as others.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, I am not a racist. It is weird people do not wish to receive that. I think race doesn't exist and racism is wrong.

But folks seem to be awfully confused about what they think nowadays.

And I am just trying to illustrate why racism is different than other types of bigotry. Racists don't do history or cultural contexts. Like Ireland and the Time of the "Troubles". In practice, racists don't have a reason to be angry. They just make up reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1op7URLgMw

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Agreed, but the three racists I met have reasons, no matter how BS they are: Blacks talk weird, they’ve no manners, and they should go back to Africa. These statements are offensive and rude, and untrue. They’re very ignorant. However, there are those who say stuff like Blacks should marry other Blacks and Whites should marry other Whites to preserve genetics. That I find also wrong. My ex-girlfriend is Black.

[RolandCuthbert]

What if a "White" American male wanted to share his future with someone with the same cultural values as he?

Or what if a "White" American male is only attracted to women with physical features consistent with Europeans?

Is that racist?

Racism is kind of specific.

[OddBeMe]

Hell I thought the spics were technically “white”

[RolandCuthbert]

I would use that term.

But yes, that's what many Hispanics think of themselves generally. And I know Hispanics much darker than me who say they are "White". I got no problem with that.

1. It tells me how they see themselves.

2. That's a "White" people's problem. Only "White" people can tell us who is "White" and who is not.

[OddBeMe]

catholics weren't considered white in the 50s so its all BS :)

[RolandCuthbert]

Sorry. . . I meant. . . I would not use that term.

[RolandCuthbert]

Absolutely. The Irish were not "White" until the 40s. I think the Italians took two decades later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72hWpWLAUWY

[OddBeMe]

Oh I know you were. I do love reading race terms from that decade…. oh boy.

[OddBeMe]

*Werent