Do you feel as though the law actually values fathers as claimed?

[Bre_0611]

Yes

No

[Razp_Sorbet]

The reason why women get awarded majority of custody isn't because the father is unfit. It's all about not changing the child's life too much. Because it's the change that causes emotional stress. Women are often the primary caretakers, in most family dynamics the man works a typical 9-5 job and the woman either is stay at home or works part time. She wakes the kids up, gets them ready for school, feeds them, drops then off, maybe picks them up if her hours allow that, then helps with homework, does dinner and the bedtime routine. She also does the housework in-between all this. A lot of divorced/separated men will say they didn't realize how much household chores actually had to be done because they never had to think about them. So it's only natural that the woman gets awarded the majority of custody because then the routine doesn't get messed up.

Yes in some circumstances judges are fucking morons and don't even look into all of this and choose the woman even if she isn't the best choice for the children. there's a lot of corrupt judges.

[monorprise]

A woman who require soo much time to do all that work doesn't have nearly soo much time to earn the money required to pay the bills. The real question is how is her life improved by throwing away the man who pays for everything allowing her to spend so much time on her kids?

[Razp_Sorbet]

@monorprise are you asking why relationships end? 🤨

[monorprise]

@Razp_Sorbet
Yes, if the man was paying her bills as to allow her to spend soo much time taking care of her kids why on earth would she throw that away?

Does she imagine she could replace him with anther man willing an able to not only financially support her and anther man's kids but do more of the work for those kids too?
I would say her chances are not good there.
Unless she is trying to coop the financial support of both men via child support, in which case that is just abuse.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@monorprise Im baffled that you even think this way. Why would anyone stay in a relationship if they're unhappy? You can't pretend to still be in love with someone.

[monorprise]

@Razp_Sorbet
If you think a marriage is about making you happy you really shouldn't be trusted by anyone.

A marriage is about mutual support for the benefit of children. YOU WILL BE unhappy at many points in the relationship in carrying out your obligations just as THEY TOO WILL BE unhappy.

Nobody is happy taking their turn doing unpleasant parts of a relationships but they very much appreciated when it is done for them. Securty is vital particular for children, that your trading this temporary unhappiness for.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@monorprise maybe that's what it means for you. Which is sad and I hope you find happiness. But I disagree as would most people. Good luck with that though.

[monorprise]

@Razp_Sorbet
"Most people" today have been sold the same lie you have and as such MOST of them are walking off a cliff condemning themselfs and their children to insecurity.

I look to the past of our culture and forign cultures which actually still have functional families raising functional children. Our culture is dying demographically it is doing soo poorly it will be gone from this earth before this century is out.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@monorprise you have no idea what you're talking about. I know many people who's parents got divorced and they were SO HAPPY that they did. My boyfriend being one of them. His parents fought all the time and when they finally got a divorce everyone was happier.

[Haha456]

@monorprise

Because often times women are not only primary caretakers of the household but ALSO working part time or full time jobs. There is evidence that married men live longer than single men but married women do not live longer than single women.

[Haha456]

@monorprise

Plus, you are an idiot of being married means a happy fully functional family unit. In the past, women stay married to men who beat them simply because she didn't have the means to survive on her own. 100 years ago, women werent allowed to pursue college, trade school or a professional career. So they can't afford to leave their abusive husbands

[monorprise]

@Razp_Sorbet The problem was not their marriage but the parents immature unwillingness to live respectfully together. Probably because at least 1 of them believed as you do that marriage is about self-pleasure. Otherwise she or he would conducted themselfs like an adult respecting bounties rather than pouting and demanding like a child their partner somehow make them happy.

[monorprise]

@Haha456 Even if that were true, and lets be honest its a study which could draw any conclusion it wants.
A: You dont know why, it could be entirely self-inflicted cultural demands. Women usually go into marriage with sky high cultural expectations, men usually don't. As such women normally live with stressful frustration where as men don't.

and

B: What is a few more years compared to an eternity with no stable legacy?
If you don't raise stable your legacy ends with you, even if you do spend 1 or 2 more years on this earth alone in your house. There is no future or lasting point to your life.

Regardless it is true and clearly known for thousands of years that men need to support women to be fulfilled. Althou this too could be cultural a man who is not tied down is far more likely to do things to risk the life he needs not to support anyone else.

[monorprise]

@Haha456 The abusive husband argument is an appeal to Extremes, abuse historically just like today is extremely rare. If this were the reasons women leave their marriage would succeed.

[Haha456]

@monorprise

Married men saw the biggest drops in mortality rates, with research pointing out that men who are tied down are less likely to take risks, get into accidents or consume alcohol and drugs.

The “protective effect” of marriage, where a partner encourages their spouse to seek medical treatment, could be a contributing factor, according to the study, as are better financial situations and healthier lifestyles.

Bad news for women, though, as a deep dive into the data revealed that their mortality benefited less if they were married.

Researchers said that could be due to domestic labour not being equally divided in Asian marriages, thus putting more stress on women which “may counteract the health benefits of marriage.”

The study also pointed out that unmarried women are more likely to have a job and have more money and access to better health.

torontosun.com/.../married-men-live-longer-married-women-not-so-much-study

[Haha456]

@monorprise

New study discovers marriage helps men live longer, but causes women to die younger

www.joe.ie/.../new-study-discovers-marriage-helps-men-live-longer-causes-women-die-younger-670447

Is It True That Single Women and Married Men Do Best?

www.psychologytoday.com/.../is-it-true-single-women-and-married-men-do-best

[monorprise]

@Haha456 Once again consider the source you can make a study show whatever you want and the TorontoSun is not exactly in the pro- women being married rather than working camp.

The Article also presumes high workload of doing all the house work herself in addition to holding a full time job is the source of the stress.

Not only said work load NOT nessarly the case (hence the cherry picking of Asian Marriages example), said stress if it exist may just as well be a result of the woman trying to meet unrealistic cultural expectations.

In both cases the problem has nothing to do with the marriage itself but rather how she is conducting it.

[Haha456]

@monorprise

It is not limited to Asian marriages where a woman does most of the housewor, child rearing duties , while working a full time job.

This is also true for American families.

Most American men CANNOT AFFORD housewives.

why do you think most divorces in america are INITIATED BY WOMEN? Because women simply have everything to lose in marriage. women simply are unhappy being married.

[monorprise]

@Haha456 I would imagine women do most of the child rearing and house work in most families around the world thou out human history. Female biology has create very compelling reasons fro this division of labor.

What is truly odd is the arrogance of 'modern' people to think they are somehow all the sudden wiser than millions of years of experience. Naturally what they got was an unmitigated disaster in the collapse of families and children when women abandoned this vital role.

[Haha456]

@monorprise

All throughout history, women only did housework. Women never needed to go out to work a job or make money.

Nowadays, women need to not only do vast majority of the housework, child rearing duties but also WORK 8-9 hours a day at their jobs.

This is why evidence shows that married men live longer than single men. But married women do not necessarily live longer than married women.

This might also explain why women initiate 2/3rds of all divorces.
If wives were truly happy in marriages, they wouldn't be divorcing so much. Fact is... they're not happy

[Haha456]

@monorprise

This is why evidence shows that married men live longer than single men. But married women do not necessarily live longer than SINGLE*** women.

[monorprise]

@Haha456 That women in the last 60 years have assumed an unfair amount of additional responsibilities to work both outside and inside the home is a separate problem.

One only made far worse, when they abandon what ever help and support they do receive from the father and assume the entire financial burden upon themselfs alone.

As it happens men do not live as long outside of marriage, because unmarried men are per-disposed to taking high levels of risks and abuse without a family to care for.

[Haha456]

if you take a look at how so many fathers either abandon their kids for single mother's to raise or do not pay child support. you will understand why the courts favor mothers over fathers when it comes to child custody. Mothers simply make better parents than fathers. Kids also tend to want their mothers more.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

I can confirm that kids cannot decide for themselves at that age. It is like a deal for them. Whoever gives more incentives, they go with that person. Simple.

Kids don't know anything. Rather they are unable to make a sound decision.

[Haha456]

@The_Shadow_Dweller

typically kids want the mother more. moms have a special bond with their children that fathers simply don't have. When you feel the baby's ever move inside you for 9 months along with the torture labor of pregnancy- its different. Moms also tend to care about the kids more than dads.

[Vegasrunner]

@haha456 What's the percentage of fathers that abandon their kids?

[pethouse]

You both need to chill

[Razp_Sorbet]

@Vegasrunner 33% of kids live with absent fathers.

[Vegasrunner]

@Razp_Sorbet How can someone live w/ someone that is absent?

[Razp_Sorbet]

@Vegasrunner because they are alive...

[Vegasrunner]

@Razp_Sorbet Do you even know what you're talking about? You said 33% kids live w/ absent fathers. If they live w/ them by definition the fathers can't be absent.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

@Vegasrunner I think what she means to see is, the fathers are there, legally, parent or as a guardian. But they are just so ignorant that they don't play any role in their kid's day-to-day life. Hence absent fathers.

[Vegasrunner]

@The_Shadow_Dweller there's no way you could measure that by percentage. If a father is a legal guardian how would it be possible to reach a statistical number of how their day to day activity w/ the child?

[Razp_Sorbet]

@Vegasrunner I'm not using love in that context. I'm not saying they live with as in in the same house I'm saying that 33% of children live their lives with an absent father. I guess I could have worded it a lot better. But still the answer is about 33%, some sources say 1 in 4.

[Vegasrunner]

@Razp_Sorbet Gotcha that makes more sense.

[Nigjt]

No because the simple fact is that women definitely in all aspects of when it comes to the kids have more rights just because they carry them for 9 months that to me and a bunch of other men feels like discrimination against the population of man therefore it is saying that men are not as equals as women when it comes to the parenting skills because such as I am a proud parent I am a man first of all and my kids come before I in all aspects of life so until the law changes it's the same BS as all of the prejudice whether it be black white Mexican Asian Hungarian African German Russian or Polynesian or any other race that I may have not included racism is racism and Prejudiced his prejudice and all aspects of life whether it be about race or man or woman.
So I asked you my fellow brothers and sisters As Americans and other walks of life no matter where we are in the world ready to be America or another country let's please change.
God Bless

[OlderAndWiser]

Guys are overwhlminglly voting "no," but I think that most guys believe what other guys tell them to believe. I am an atorney and I have handled many divorce cases. If a guy gets screwed in a divorce, it's usually because he did something bad and he deserves to be screwed. And I have seen women get the short end of the stick in divorce court. But when both are good parents to their kids, I see the time routinely divided close to 50/50 and fathers being required to pay minimal chld support, like $200-250 per month.

[Bre_0611]

Wow thanks so much for sharing that, that is very true. I tend to see both sides but it's interesting how many guys say they feel unsupported by the law

[OlderAndWiser]

The other irony is that if a judge awards primary custody to the father, he is much more likely to evenually admit that is not what he REALLY wants. Most of the protests about custody are just grandstanding!

[Msputiton]

Yes and no. But the problem has become that they have been seen as the bread winner and the mother as the caregiver for so long.

So laws put more importance in the mother raising the children as long as the man pays her to after a seperation. But times has changed, and plenty of children would really be better off living with their pops over their momma.

[jshm2]

The law is ambivalent, kiddo.

Legally it doesn't matter if you're the mother father, adopter, or just a trans queer guardian. It's about the case put forward by the legal team.

Too many people get shit lawyers, but expect top results.

[cth96190]

The only value that law places on fathers is as debt slaves who can be forced to pay child support, even if the man can prove that the child, or children, are not his.
The only way that men can win is to not play the game.

[Luopio27]

How can child support be put on those who dont have kids of their own?

[cth96190]

@Luopio27
In some states of the USA and in some other countries the law makes a man financially responsible for children who are birthed by his wife, whether or not he is the biological father.
Some give the man a specified time to show that he is not the biological father. After that time, the man is legally responsible for life.

[cth96190]

@Luopio27
part II
If you trawl through YouTube you will find videos about outrageous and unjust child support laws around the world.
Do not confuse law and natural justice.
In Western jurisdictions, laws have been written deliberately to screw over men.
For example, in France it is a crime for a man to DNA test his children.
Law is not interested in justice, especially as it is applied to men.
After you watch some YouTube videos on the subject, you will realise that it has been made too dangerous for a Western man to have any form of relationship with a woman.
The USA probably has the most unjust child support laws in the world.
To the best of my knowledge, the USA is the only country in which a woman can put a man’s name on a birth certificate (she might have not even met the man), nobody is required to ensure that the man is notified, the state will pursue the man for unpaid child support about which he knew nothing until the police arrived to arrest him.
A man-hating Feminist judge can impose an amount of child support that does not have any connection to the actual cost of raising a child, or the man’s capacity to pay.
When the man is unable to pay, the judge will send him to prison.
That, of course, ensures that the man cannot pay and the debt accumulates while the man is in prison.
If/when the man is released from prison, he no longer has a job and the debt has increased, so the judge will send him back to prison.
That cycle can continue for the rest of the man’s life, which is cut short frequently by suicide.
The only way that a man has a hope of survival today is to use a false identity when dealing with women and to never put his penis inside a woman.
Even then, some bitch who he has not met can put his name on a birth certificate.
All of the above is part of the reason why I have been a MGTOWmonk for the past 22 years.
I am in Australia, where the law is similar, but men are not jailed for unpaid child support. . . yet.

[Haha456]

@cth96190

doesn't matter if he is the child or not. when you are married to someone, you are also married to her finances. when you are married, you and your wife's bank accounts are LEGALLY LINKED.

This means that she CAN tell you to start living off of coupons because she is withdrawing 100,000 dollars out of the savings account to pay for your non biological step son's college education. You will feel the rippling effects if she ever did this.

You don't seem to understand the implications of marriage. If you dont want it, dont get married.

[Luopio27]

When I was a kid, I thought criminals were bad, didn't expect justice system to be that fucked up that it can lead to suicides. That is a joke to humanity.

Thank you for your heads up. Never gona get married.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

You explained it really well

[Haha456]

@Luopio27

You can't blame other people for a mistake you made.

[Luopio27]

Please be more specific @Haha456

[Anonymous]

The Family Courts and the vast majority of Judges in them are based in favour of women, the fathers are see solely as a source of money, where mothers are given custody even when there is evidence that the children would be worse off, both physically and mentally with her.

This even happens if the ‘father’ is not genetically the father of the children, other wise known as Paternity Fraud and the Family Courts and the vast majority of Judges countenances this if not outright encourages it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko5F8pw_6Wo&feature=youtu.be

[Djaay]

Yes , ONLY if the man is a good example to other men under the law and standard set by (above provisional standards of law ) .. No , if his standards are by falt. Value of parents are implied by the children's interest instead of the parents themselfs. Unilaterally tho , falt can fall on either parent and if so , the court may consider the lesser of evils.

[Anonymous]

Well, it is not as if special rules are there for males. Everybody knows that the law is disproportionately skewed towards women. Not only in The US, but also in India.

Try to give me some incentives we get through marriage. There are very few. Which are not worth it. Anymore.

It is natural for guys to behave the way they are behaving now.

[genericname85]

it obviously doesn't. the law treats women preferencially in pretty much every aspect... so much for "patriarchy" huh...

[Littlejugs99]

No. If it did 50/50 would be the case in most child custody cases not fathers fighting to get 1 day a month

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Well here in the U. S. I have heard terrible things how the law treats fathers when it comes to custody hearings and time with their kid so no I don't think it values fathers as it claims which the vaule isn't high to begin with.

A father should have equal treatment as the mother of that child and access to see his child whenever he desires not when the court decides.

[gorydetails]

Our culture does not value fathers to the detriment of society.

[Anonymous]

I'd say fathers more often get seen as an "asshole" even when they've done nothing wrong and that mothers are always the victim in a bad situation. I just hope I'm wrong about this.

[msc545]

you are not wrong.

[Marked_Man]

Fathers are the most underappreciated and disrespected by society. It doesn't help that many women breed with losers that disappear like a fart in the wind once the pregnancy test comes back positive.

[crossdressingrihno]

No men aren’t valued as fathers in the court of law. The court only cares about the wallet

[LiamJHayden]

Not consistently in practice. I've seen cases where great fathers get visitation and, frankly, sh*tty mothers get physical custody.

[AngryCarl2]

Legally men are just sperm donors. Prove me wrong, liberal media!

[msc545]

HELL NO. Men are only valued as human ATM machines by courts.

[Anonymous]

It's not clear to me that the law has anything to say about valuing fathers. Have I missed something?

[itsalyssaagain]

Speaking on English law definitely not

[NostalgiaSenpi]

Just the opposite.

[CB-Raido-Time]

Absolutely not.