Man to be charged with second-degree manslaughter in N. Y. subway chokehold death?

[msc545]

“We can confirm that Daniel Penny will be arrested on a charge of Manslaughter in the Second Degree,” Doug Cohen, a spokesman for the Manhattan district attorney’s office, said in a statement.

[ManOnFire]

I've seen the reports on this and Daniel Penny still falls into the category of others who have done this kind of thing to men of color: just wrong. He claims that Jordan Neely was threatening him and others on the train, and maybe so, but unless that guy actually had a weapon he was using or just trying to attack people, then Penny did not need to go as far as to use to his killing machine Marine skills to subdue this guy.

They said Neely was a 'subway performer' and had mental illness. For the record I do want to say that I understand how annoying these street performers in NYC can seem. It's the same way over here when you go into D. C. by train and you start seeing kids and stuff break out the stereo and doing tricks and dances on the train. But in NYC it's 10x more rampant. However, a mentally ill man asking people for money on a train is not a cause for putting him in a lethal chokehold, even if he's threatening you. When I was growing up and you saw nutcases on the subway, you just act like they don't exist, even if they're cussing at you. Just ignore them. Don't even look at them.

Penny claimed he was going to turn himself in after the whole incident, and if that really is true then it obviously means he himself realized he was being 'overkill.'

[DarkWinterNights]

You can cause great bodily harm without a weapon. Plenty of people have been injured and killed by being pushed in front of trains this year alone. There was the woman who was decked in the face by a man last week, and then there was the guy who sexually assaulted the woman in front of everyone who didn’t want to get involved about a year ago.

You either have people defending themselves and others with the occasional injury or death if the perpetrator or you have an increasing amount of innocent victims and crimes in the open.

[ManOnFire]

@DarkWinterNights Why I said "but unless that guy actually had a weapon he was using or just trying to attack people" which I don't think he was doing. He was probably just being annoying with his mental mouthiness or asking people for money.

[msc545]

@DarkWinterNights The man that was killed did not touch anyone before he was killed.

[lightbulb27]

I didn't see a need to choak the guy to death and that hold is wrong. there's a way to hold a child that is in a tantrum, it might work on adults, not sure. this would be the problem with military vs a teacher... military is trained to kill people. he did what he was trained to do. that doesn't fly in civilian domain.

no way should we be releasing kids like this that need help...40 times. why is our "mental health" system... mentally ill? Answer, because it is deeply flawed, along with our disconnected society. we should be helping people like this, americans, to be successful rather than destroy them.

However, I wasn't there, to go that far, he was apparently really messing with people and multiple people took him down.

Regarding therapy, the only therapy I know that makes sense... is a combination of finding the offending traumas, addressing them... ideally with the love of God, providing social support via groups and community support and career planning/training to get him so he can succeed in life. His mother was murdered by a boyfriend, he never recovered. as well, the school system failed him and he failed to make good decisions, who knows if he had good enough mentors. Kids fall through not only cracks in the system but gaping holes anymore...

he was but a rat caught in a cage... nyc is unforgiving hell hole for many. We need to bring back churches, Christ, salvation, failth, hope... character develompment, job skills, etc.. Solvable and preventable...

[Anonymous]

Physical intervention is a tricky subject as so much can go wrong trying to bring order to a chaotic situation and a bad decision can be disastrous. I know in Physical intervention scenarios in Ireland and the uk chokeholds are not allowed. The other thing is that if this guy gets punished others may hesitate rather than intervene in these situations. Like somebody said that performing first aid here in the US may result in a lawsuit where that is not the case in Ireland or the UK.

[richardcory]

I'll withhold judgement until we find out what happened in the train just before the choke hold. Maybe there is surveillance video or something? To me that is the key. Was the victim behaving in a way that a reasonable person would conclude represented a threat of death or injury.

I don't know the answer yet

[front2back]

Men are no longer allowed to defend the common society from assailants.
Maybe the length of the chokehold was excessive, but the man in question had threatened people dozens of times and even tried to push a woman on to the tracks from his records.

It's unfortunate the guy died but he died to the hands of a hero trying to protect his community. This is the stage of decline we are at now.

[msc545]

The was no assailant in this situation, just a murderer who you mistakenly called a "hero".

[front2back]

He didn't purposely try to murder him but restrain him, not even the charges against him are of murder but manslaughter.

The guy F*ked around, and he Found out. Sucks but maybe don't terrorize the populace.

[msc545]

You don't know what he did or did not do on purpose. You are merely guessing to satisfy your own desires in this.

The charge is manslaughter because it would be very difficult to prove intent, but killing with no intent to kill is still manslaughter and that is worth 20 years of the "hero's" life. He decided to be a hero and he is finding out.

We do not have the death penalty for making others uncomfortable as much as you wish we did.

[front2back]

I wish I was just talking shit but uh:
www.newsweek.com/jordan-neely-arrest-record-outrage-grows-subway-death-1798248

"Neely's record has 42 prior arrests, dating between 2013 and 2021. They include four for alleged assault, while others involved accusations of transit fraud and criminal trespass. At the time of his death, Neely had one active warrant for an alleged assault in connection with a 2021 incident."

Wow so sad this upstanding citizen with so many assaults on his record ended up getting choked by a strong Marine as well as other men restraining him!

He was just about to be a NASA Astronaut if we had just given him a chance!

Let the guy go, he did nothing wrong and if he did, everyone else is better off because of it.

[msc545]

The guy did everything wrong starting with his need to play hero. None of Neeleys offenses carried the death penalty.

[front2back]

Well screaming threats to kill random people IS something that threatens their life, so uh yeah you can be seriously injured or killed from that.

It wasn't just him but two other men restraining him so clearly multiple men found him to be a threat.

Really the people to blame here are the NY Judicial system. He needed to be thrown into an asylum but was allowed to walk the streets. This would have never happened otherwise.

[msc545]

We don't throw people into asylums in this country and in fact we don't even have asylums anymore.

[front2back]

And that's why we have such rampant crime and mass murder.

[msc545]

Of course, it is not. Try inequality.

[msc545]

Also, we do not execute people for talking too loudly.

[exitseven]

In most of the country this guy would be a hero but in New York he will be charged with a crime. He probably will be convicted too. I would not be surprised if there was an all black jury too.

[msc545]

Where do you think he would be a hero besides in the racist south?

[exitseven]

In practically the whole country excepth the moonbat states on both coasts and Illinois.

[msc545]

Oh, you mean... in the red MAGA states full of traitors he would be a hero? You are probably right. By "moonbat" I take it you mean the wealthy productive states full of sane patriotic educated Americans that you disagree with? Again you are probably right.

So what?

[exitseven]

Conservatives will be seen by history as patriots. Liberals will be labelled communist traitors. If you ever look at a rec vs blue map of the country you would see it is 80%red with tiny concentrated areas of blue. Oddly these places are where most of the crime and poverty happens. Coincidence?

[msc545]

So now not only can you read minds, but you can also tell us what's going to happen in the future? Excuse me for being a little skeptical about this.

[exitseven]

I was right about Trump in 2016

[msc545]

right in what way?

[exitseven]

Even though the polls had him down by over ten points I saw the popularity and enthusiasm he generated at every stop. Even in the moonbat state I live in there was a Trump boat parade at the beach near my house. I just expected a few dozen boats to show up. I had to park over a mile away and there were over two thousand boats that showed up. Big sailboats, cabin cruisers and many more all with American flags and Trump signs. People lined the beach showing their support by the thousand. I figur3d that the polls were wrong. A liberal associate that I used to work with still owes me a steak dinner.

[msc545]

Better look at some data before you buy that steak. A poll is a lot more probative than a boat parade.

[exitseven]

Yes, and elections are not won on the campaign trail anymore. They are won at the ballot box.

[msc545]

Maybe but how is that relevant?

[exitseven]

Meaning Trump could be ahead in every poll and swamp the venues he holds his rallies at and still. lose because it matters more who is counting the votes.

[msc545]

Machines count the votes.

[exitseven]

Who counts the mail in ballots? Not machines.