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Answer:
44 previous arrests, 18 were violent felonies and an outstanding warrant of assaulting an elderly woman. The guy also tried to push somebody onto the tracks.
I’m a bjj brown belt and an ex pro fighter. I’ve choked out plenty of people and it’s been done to me on a few occasions. So here are my observations:
Yeah that's what people don't understand, you can make people pass out by cutting off the blood flow and hesitation will get you killed.
I trained for 11 years and used holds to cut off blood flow and have had those used on me as well. I saw some very vivid hallucinations while I was out a few times xD
People acting like this Marine is some raging murderer have no idea how self-defense works.
It’s all about a racial narrative the media wants and it’s absolutely disgusting. There have several other homicide incidents on subways in NYC in the last 3 years (crime has skyrocketed in NY since 2020). However none of them ever become a national news story because again it’s because they didn’t fit a narrative.
With that said the Marine definitely held on too long. I think it’s just from lack of active grappling experience. However it was unintentional. It’s not like he woke up and said to himself “I think I will kill a black man with my bare hands at my first opportunity today” like how BLM wants to believe.
However I do acknowledge the criminal culpability element of him holding on to the choke too long.
I live in the area, and this is a really big story here. Alvin Simon Theodore Bragg is actually considering charging the Marine who restrained this guy from harming others with murder or manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter. Yes it went bad, but that wasn't the Marine's intention, and the other guy was the clear aggressor. Meanwhile career criminals get slapped on the wrist and released, many on the same day that they're arrested. Bragg is such a big fat piece of shit. If he'd actually do his damn job, maybe innocent citizens in New York City wouldn't be tasked with restraining mentally unhinged people hanging out on mass transit and down in the subway stations.
@Juxtapose Yeah I know this was on cable news (specifically FOX), but this dude Lawrence Jones is spot-on:
https://youtu.be/6hGfFZxsITw
Thanks for Most Helpful. 👍
His arrest record is irrelevant to the incident on the subway. Bringing it up is just a way to diminish his worth in light of what happened. The guy had a history of mental illness, which explains the erratic behavior. Homeless and mentally ill people have a lot of contact with the police and are typically in and out of jail. That’s not unusual. The guy who subdued him probably had good intentions initially but went way overboard. He’ll likely be arrested since the death was ruled a homicide. Force has to be appropriate to the threat.
Except that witness’s have said he wasn’t harming anyone. He was throwing trash and behaving erratically. No one’s life was in danger. He was just making people feel uncomfortable. The force was questionable from the start and the chokehold was a horrible idea. Looks like this case will be presented to a grand jury.
We have jury nullification for a reason. I hope they use it. The world is a better place now.
@cth96190 The only problem with your diatribe is the most aggressive thing Neely did was shout and throw his jacket on the ground. Deadly force was used on him in response. It wasn’t an appropriate response under the law. It’s yet another case of a person of color being perceived as a bigger threat than they really are by a white person. You’re trying to diminish his worth to justify behavior that you know full well is problematic legally. Negligent homicide/manslaughter is not ok just because someone is homeless, mentally ill and black, even if you would like it to be. No one on the subway that day was in danger of imminent death or great bodily harm. Protesters are right to be angry over this.
@Roxxy99 fair observation but whatever anybody says this is not “murder”. They will probably get him on an assault and battery. Maybe involuntary manslaughter because he held in too long. But honestly given the mitigating factors that’s a stretch. That marine was trying to be a Good Samaritan and protect other people on the subway. However he will likely be tried in NYC which really sucks because he will never get a fair trial given how left NYC is.
Anyway this would have never been a national news story if it wasn’t for racial narrative the leftist media salivates over.
@RangerBlue22 No it’s not murder. It’ll likely be a negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter and I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. Yes, the guy was trying to be a Good Samaritan but he ended up using deadly force. When that happens, you need to be able to justify its use and he’s on real shaky legal ground there. It’s going to be hard to make the case that you feared for your life or someone else’s from someone shouting, throwing trash and throwing his jacket on the ground. Even if he gets lucky and gets a grand jury willing to let him slide, he’ll be ripe for a wrongful death suit and will be paying that family the rest of his life. It was a dumb decision to use that chokehold.
I recommend you read the opinion I posted about this. I tried to go through this step by step.
I am very experienced in jiu jitsu and i know a lot about chokes by the way.
I’ve seen your post. I just disagree with parts of it. It will boil down to whether deadly force was reasonable under the circumstances. It’s going to be a hard sell to a jury to say that it was. I also disagree with the idea he won’t get a fair trial in NYC if it goes that far. All jurors have political viewpoints. It doesn’t mean they can’t weigh facts and circumstances fairly. That’s an argument that’s been rejected by the court time and time again.
If you were trained in jiu jitsu (and I highly doubt you are) then you would understand what that Marine was trying to do. His submission hold was not intended to be “deadly force”. It became deadly force when he held on to it too long. I’m just sick of uneducated people looking at and immediately thinking “oh he was trying to kill him! With that hold”. I am not saying you think but a lot of stupid ignorant morons automatically assume that.
Anyway I never said the Marine didn’t act without culpability. I think he was taught basic submission holds in the military but he’s was too inexperienced at applying them properly. I’ve choked out someone out doing the exact same thing but I have lots of experience to know the person is out and when to let go. When I do the blood flow returns and the person wakes up with no permanent damage. He might forget where he is at which usually a good thing.
Also it’s naive and very dangerous to just sit there when a stranger is acting mentally disturbed and threatening (this guy was screaming he didn’t care if he lived or died). If someone is willing to die then they likely aren’t worried if other people die. The second you wait for them to produce a weapon is the second it could be too late.
As it turns out this guy already had a track record of engaging in criminal violence. That doesn’t mean he deserved to die like that. However it’s completely asinine to expect innocent bystanders to be subjected to that danger and not do anything.
I also stick with my claim that the Marine will not got get a fair trial in NYC. Derek Chauvin sure as hell didn’t. That doesn’t mean I like Chauvin at all or agreed with what he did. However from an objective perspective he was tried by mob rule. One of the jurors in that case was revealed to be an open BLM activist. Elected congresswoman Maxine Waters openly called for rioting and violence if Chauvin wasn’t convicted on all charges and suffered absolutely no penalty for it.
I can see this same mob rule bs happening with the marine’s trial.
You don’t need to know anything about martial arts to know that he was trying to subdue the man. It wasn’t deliberate but it was negligent. I’m a correctional counselor and the last thing you do is go hands on with a mentally ill person, unless it’s absolutely necessary. He wasn’t harming himself or others. He was displaying no weapon. He made no verbal threat to anyone. He was making people nervous with erratic behavior. That’s the truth. Self defense is reactive in nature. When you use force preemptively, it can be legally problematic both criminally and civilly. Bottom line, it was a bad call. Chauvin’s attorney will no doubt bring up the BLM protest on appeal. If he gets a new trial, so be it. However, his conviction was appropriate and I don’t see any jury letting him off. Remember also, the rest of the jurors came to the same conclusion in that case.
NYC subway violence has skyrocketed since 2020. People are nervous. 
Glad we both agree with negligence. I know you acknowledged that earlier but my response wasn’t clear earlier. I’m just furious at morons like AOC and BLM activists claiming this is “murder”. But anyway we are the same page with that.
However about your comment that “He was displaying no weapon.” That doesn’t mean someone couldn’t be concealing one. That Marine was trained to quickly remove a potential threat whether it’s domestic or foreign. Terrorists often act psycho before they do something violent and heinous. Yes it’s a judgment call. But again more than one person including another black man restrained this guy. Do you think another black man would be likely happy to see another white man unnecessarily inflict violence on another black person? I doubt it. I hate to bring up race but that’s exactly why this is a national news story to begin with (and the media’s agenda is disgusting).
Hindsight is 20/20 that the marine overreacted. However hesitation can be fatal if you “wait” for someone who is clearly acting threatening to do something.
Anyway thank you for acknowledging the Chauvin trial incident. But that really was a kangaroo court to appease the BLM mob. I’m not exaggerating. Chauvin might have been a pos but there is a reason why we have an impartial justice system in the USA. He deserved a fair trial like anyone else no matter the evil they committed. But he definitely didn’t get one. And it’s no guarantee he will get the murder sentence overturned any time soon. That’s a possibility but not a guarantee.
@RangerBlue22 Anyone could have a weapon. I regularly carry a weapon. However, you can’t use force on someone over what they might have. This wasn’t a terrorist either. It was a mentally ill transient. I see that Daniel Penny will be charged with second degree manslaughter. That’s probably an appropriate charge. The family will no doubt have a solid wrongful death suit after that. I’ll disagree on Chauvin. Where do you find “impartial” jurors? If we dig into any jurors life, we can find personal and political views that could be used to imply bias. The same is true of judges and attorneys, even witnesses. It’s an imperfect system but you’re probably going to need more than someone being at a BLM protest to say the result may have been different had he disclosed that information. We’d never find juries if we dig too deep.
Well you do have some hands on experience so I can respect some of your perspective given your occupation. However there was more to the incident:
- Despite the media’s best efforts to portray Jordan Neely as wayward “Michael Jackson” impersator he he had an active warrant for punching a 67 year old woman in the face
- A day before he died Neely tried to push someone on the train tracks. nypost.com/.../
- the marine laid Neely on his side in a recovery position after he let go the choke and noticed he wasn’t recovering right away. He stayed with Neely until medical personnel arrived. Not typical of a someone intentionally wanting to seriously harm someone.
- several people on the subway thanked the marine right after the incident (and before they knew Neely died). Nobody was upset with him. So is that how most people would react to the marine when they saw Neely as just an annoyance vs. a legitimate threat they were scared of?
Now I didn’t say Neely was a terrorist. But the marine is trained to deal with dangerous people who can be terrorists. As his rap sheet has proven Neely was far from harmless.
That doesn’t mean he deserved to die that day. That doesn’t mean society didn’t fail him (he should have been involuntarily institutionalized given his long criminal history, aggression and documented mental illness). However one way or another people were legitimately scared with Neely’s behavior just before that incident. These are New Yorkers riding subways too. They see weird and erratic people all the time. Neely did come off as legitimate threat to people in the moment.
As for Chauvin. The entire BLM movement went mainstream BECAUSE of Chauvin. And just because it was trendy in 2020 doesn’t mean everybody jumped on the bandwagon.
BLM was founded by a self avowed and self identifying Marxist. Saying you stand with BLM is a statement of your beliefs. Not only for systematic “racial injustice” but for other far left ideologies as well.
So yes it does matter if that juror once marched with BLM. It does matter he was pictured BLM tshirt. He would have been coerced anyway to vote guilty (the jury weren’t sequestered which is insane). Still thought that juror probably lied about his beliefs during jury selection.
nypost.com/.../
nypost.com/.../
@RangerBlue22 Where do you find jurors without an ideology though? We all have one. You can’t expect a jury that matches your own ideology. That’s why there’s a limit on peremptory challenges. We’d never find a jury otherwise. In Chauvin’s case, every potential juror had already seen the video and already formed an opinion whether that was right or wrong. An unbiased jury is impossible. The best you can hope for is that they fairly weigh the facts and evidence. Someone’s race, gender, political beliefs, religion, sexual orientation, etc doesn’t automatically prove they didn’t. From what I’m reading, the juror in question wasn’t even part of Chauvin’s appeal anyway. As for Neely, his past record is irrelevant here. People tend to focus on that to smear the victim afterwards. His past had nothing to do with what happened on the subway and I guarantee you Daniel Penny did not know his arrest record when he acted, so it could not have colored anyone’s judgement that day. The only reason to bring it up is to lower the victim’s worth to justify bad behavior. Penny will get to argue his state of mind at trial. His only real defense is to argue that he felt he or someone else was in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death. The question is whether that was reasonable based on the circumstances? It’s going to be difficult to argue that it was and he’s going to have to hope for a lenient jury. Personally, I don’t think he was afraid of Neely at all. I think he thought he was playing Good Samaritan because other people were openly avoiding Neely and went overboard.
Why was Chauvin tried in Minneapolis? Why couldn’t the trial been moved somewhere else vs. right where the incident occurred given him an unfair trial? You have a right to be “tried by your peers”. The juror wearing a BLM tshirt was not one of Chauvin’s peers.
Personally I agree that Chauvin was 100% guilty of deprivation of rights under color law, second degree manslaughter and the 2 counts of tax evasion. But there was reasonable doubt for 2nd and 3rd degree murder. Especially with 3rd degree murder. But BLM is mob rule nowadays openly enforced by elected officials like Maxine Waters. Rioting is “okay” by one side of the political aisle just as long it’s for right reason.
As for Daniel Penny’s 2nd degree manslaughter charge. I don’t completely disagree with the charge. But more needs to come out with gathering of evidence and due process. Also BLM protestors were already blocking subways in NYC demanding “justice”. So mob rule is back in force of course. The mass media proudly made sure of it too.
Its debatable with Daniel Penny’s intentions were of when it came to Neely. Penny is a born and raised New Yorker. He’s used to erratic people in the city. But he made a choice to take things a step further with Neely. Why?
Well we can both agree on the Good Samaritan motivation. But Penny is also a trained infantry marine. He is trained to identify and quickly react to potential threats. Neely could have very well shown behavior that triggered something in Penny to take action.
There have been 29 homicides in the New York subways since 2020. That’s an exponential leap from the previous 20 years. People are scared on public mass transit and for good reason.
However why haven’t we heard about any of the other homicide incidents? The answer is simple. This incident fell into a racial narrative the media wants. They want to put in blast to keep pushing a destructive ideology.
If it was black on black, white on white or black on white it would of never made national news. In fact I highly doubt there would of been manslaughter charges pressed if everything went down the exact way except there was different racial dynamics. The black man who held Neely’s arms was an accessory to the alleged manslaughter charge. Yet he hasn’t even been identified or even spoken about in the media.
@RangerBlue22 You think a change in venue would have helped Chauvin? The entire world saw the video and watched the protests. Moving the trial to another city with equal access to the publicity would accomplish what? Everyone has an opinion already at that point. He’s arguing that on appeal but numerous defendants argue the same and fail. A jury of your peers has never meant a jury with the same skin color or political ideology that you have. It just means a cross section of people from your community. Race always comes into play when a person of color is killed under circumstances that do not appear justified. White people tend to perceive non-white people as bigger threats than they really are. It’s hard not to suspect implicit bias in situations like this, especially with this country’s horrible history regarding race. Too often, it is a factor and that’s why there is added scrutiny. Does that same history of bias exist towards white people? That doesn’t mean Daniel Penny is racially biased but that possibility has to be explored. Like it or not, it’s a factor that exists in our society.
If that’s true, there’s no doubt in my mind where he should be for the rest of his life.
Opinion
14Opinion
I can’t believe AOC. Calling this murder. AOC should be grateful he and others stepped in to restrain him. He’s a Marine Vet. He knows real threats and how to handle them. Maybe they should have all just sat there until someone got stabbed or maybe he spit his herpes laden saliva into someone’s eye. They struggled with the guy for like 10 min. from what I understand.
I was in the Corps myself. Trust me. If we wanna snap necks and take lives we know how to do that. Won’t take any of us 10 or 15 min to end a guys life with a choke hold. If that Marine wanted him dead he’d have been dead in the first 2 min.
Not to mention others also helped restrain him. That kinda speaks volumes when others obviously felt threatened enough to get involved. Plus they RESTRAINED him, not beat the crap out of him. The 2 or 3 involved I’m sure could have stomped a mud hole in his ass if they wanted.
Oh yeah and the media spin of feel bad for the homeless guy.
Maybe I’m hard hearted but I don’t see his death as a great loss to society. Perhaps removing him from society permanently will be a blessing in disguise. Certainly the daily commute on the subway will be much quieter now.
Fully agree.
If the homeless guy had been white no one would care.
@Exterminatore you should my take on this.
I completely agree with what you are saying. I only think the marine made an error in judgment by holding on to the choke well after the guy was passed out. However I don’t think he was experienced enough in jiu jitsu to realize Neely was out. He did let go immediately when another bystander said he was out. However by then it was too late.
This is more of a tragedy than a “crime”. Our ass backwards pos media want to make this guy out to be a white supremacist who woke up and decided to kill a black man that day. It’s absolutely disgusting.
I think I’ll look it up. I fully agree with all you said. All of this behavior by the media is disgusting and frankly they are very responsible for fanning racial strife that would otherwise not exist.
I think they also are intentionally painting whites in these kinds of situations a perpetrators. It’s obvious if the intent was to kill this vet and the others could have stomped on him and beat him senseless but that’s not what you see in the videos.
I agree with the sentiments of people who say a past record doesn't necessarily change how you treat the person promise you when you're in an nyc subway and you see some crazy guy throwing stuff around. You don't know exactly how crazy they are, they could have hiv or something. They've been known to pull out sharp objects and start stabbing.
There is no doubt in my mind that he was being extremely aggressive and threatening people on the train. These people do this all the time and people just ignore it like it's normal.
I just question if the guy needed to die, it must have been pretty hectic.
The guy needed to be subdued, that's for sure. But when you have someone in a choke hold and they lose consciousness, shouldn't you stop before they're actually dead?
I don't know. I certainly don't mourn the fact that the guy is gone. And I'm glad that someone stepped in to subdue him. But killing someone when they weren't presenting a deadly threat at the time seems over the top. Then again, I don't know exactly what happened, it it was accidental, or if choking was the actual cause of death.
Naturally Alvin Bragg will try to use this as an excuse to prove that he is tough on crime, even though he goes light on actual criminals. He'll probably assume that this former marine was right-wing, in which case, he'll throw the book at him.
@Lliam I’m very experienced with Brazilian jiu jitsu. From my observations the marine had only basic jiu jitsu training and wasn’t experienced enough to realize the guy was out.
I’ve choked out people before. You can feel their body tense and also their arms go limp. Once you let go they will wake right back up in 2 seconds when blood flow returns to their brain.
But I agree there might be some criminal culpability given how long he held on. He did let go right away when someone else told him Neely was out. But that Marine most likely didn’t realize he was out way earlier and continued the submission hold. That’s when it got deadly.
Also there is another black man restraining Neely’s arms during the incident. Not a word has been said about this other guy in the media. Not a word. Hmmm I wonder why?
I've been hearing for a while about how bad it is on NYC public transportation. At this point I'm just going to assume that anyone who has a negative encounter with the police on the subway deserves whatever they get, because there's probably a damn good reason that the cops got called.
Oh, FUCK... I just read the story about this. I was wrong, y'all. This guy didn't do anything wrong! He was murdered!!! 😱😰😠
@zapor I'm not sure, dude. This guy was threatening anybody. He was just shouting. He just wanted to be heard.
*wasn't*
I heard he was throwing things and threatening people. Also, two other passengers helped restrain him, so the guy who had the chokehold wasn't the only one who felt he had to do something. I guess it will depend on what the witnesses say. I DO know that AOC and others commenting were NOT there.
Throwing what? Lol. Unless he was throwing knives, then he wasn't a threat to anyone.
In a just world, this incident would be investigated fairly. NYC is, however, not a just world, with a racist mayor and racist DA. The decision may end up being made on political grounds.
Yes, heard this in the evening news on WTAE in Pittsburgh, PA USA
Wha? he wasn't a kind gentle MJ impersonator? Could I have been lied to by the media?
He's really doing a dead-on impersonation of Michael Jackson now.
Okay I'll go stand in the corner now in shame and think about what I've done.
@NYCQuestions1976 lol.
The guy should have been locked up for punching the old lady. Of course all I can find is video of the hold and not what led to it, probably meaning that the MSM is pushing a narrative, as usual.
I've had 3 previous arrests. Does that mean I deserve to die?
Since when does any of this mean you deserve to be killed by a stranger on a train?
This man needed help and the system failed him.
You're not helping either.
Because that isn't the job of police... This is systemic failure. Read a fucking book.
Serious question, what is a police officers job?
Police don't prevent crimes but anyway...
So if this man had 44 arrests... Then the police did their job didn't they? Do you think perhaps it's quite possibly something else that failed? Like I don't know the fact that the justice system is shit?
He was violent. Yes.
He needed to be subdued. Yes.
There was no need to kill him.
There is no justification to kill him. Is that what we are? Killing people how are unconscious? Is that fine to do?
Let me guess it was a black man killed by a white cop? Why else would a white man care about the story. 😝 I stopped looking at the news because it’s not healthy
I mean.. Why should I care? You dont get to kill people because they are bad guys. You know that whole society thing we try to built and distance ourselves from living like savages.
lmao. You should care. Why should decent people have to tolerate harassment and assault in public by scumbags? There's one less savage in NYC today.
Clearly you've never been in any encounter that requires you to defend yourself or had your home invaded
@disgustingweebtrash True. I live in a civilized country. This was not self defense though, there is no reason to strangle someone to death after you have already restrained them for that.
@Juxtapose
Sure. And they could have a friend nearby as well that if seeing you strangle their buddy would pull out a gatling gun and turn you to a fine paste. I can make up wild scenarios too that is not real.
@gorydetails Oh please. According to you wiping your own ass in USA is a matter "between your life and the life of someone innocent". There was no reasonable risk to anyone else and if this had happened in any other country then they would be restrained and handed off to the justice system AS IS FUCKING INTENDED.
Let me remind you. Anytime a suspect dies before they are brought to court your justice system has failed. I do not celebrate failure, do you?
@disgustingweebtrash I have no reason to assume that he posed a real risk to anyone else. The only one who demonstrably was a danger to the public is the ex vet who strangled them to death. This is a case of an imaginary threat vs a proven and very real one.
@disgustingweebtrash @gorydetails @Juxtapose Sorry guys. This is my fault. Yesterday I told @Soteris that it was time for him to go be stupid somewhere else, and he chose here. My bad.
@NYCQuestions1976 Oh? can't say I have caught up to your ranting on the other thread. Takes so long to read through the literal hundreds of posts full of inane stupidity you have vomited over there. I got it open on a separate tab so I guess ill get around to it if I get bored in the future.
@disgustingweebtrash @Juxtapose @gorydetails Good ol' @Soteris here thinks that Congress has the power to change the Constitution without 75% of the States approval, and he calls my posts "rants/ranting". WhAt An InTeLlEcTuAl! 😂😂😂
@NYCQuestions1976 Should I go get your quote again? You said:"To add, change, and/or repeal an amendment to the Constitution, you need ¾ of the States (38 of 50) to agree." which is factually incorrect even if you later tried to clarify by saying what you ACTUALLY meant was "Ratify" and not "add, change, and/or repeal".
@Soteris That is EXACTLY what I posted, and it's completely correct. Congress can make BILLIONS of PROPOSED additions, modifications, and/or removals to/from the Constitution. It doesn't matter, if 75% (38 of 50) of the States don't approve (ratify) those proposals.
It's like I tell someone that a grand slam scores 4 runs, and then you're adding, "Wrong, you need 3 guys on base first to score 4 runs on a home run." No shit, Sherlock!
So no, it's not wrong, because it doesn't matter if those guys are on base if the guy at the plate strikes out.
@NYCQuestions1976 *yawn* U-huh.. very convincing. So anyways, why are you here aside from boring me to tears? can't say you are contributing much to the conversation aside from making me consider my position on arbitrarily murdering innocent people. I mean, maybe these yahoos does have a point after all?
@Soteris I don't need to be convincing, just correct, which I am. Convincing is for manipulators.
You mean "maybe these yahoos *DO* have a point after all".
Come on now, "intellectual". You're better than that. Yes? Maybe? Eh, probably not.
Anyway, this case isn't murder. If you actually took the time to read and watch the entire story, you'd know that.
@NYCQuestions1976 You are incorrect, especially with your specific choice in wording.
Also, do tell how "reading and watch the entire story" changes the fact that civilians do not have the authority to kill other civilians except for extreme circumstances? Circumstances I might add that are resolved if the threat is restrained which a person would become long before they actually die from strangling.
Strangling someone takes some real effort and dedication you know. It is far beyond what is required to simply restrain someone, especially if you have the cooperation of several people. It shows some real intent to kill the other people rather than simply defending yourself. Something that a reasonable person might consider as a murder.
But what would I know? I am only an "intellectual" according to you.
@Soteris "I mean, maybe these yahoos does have a point after all?"
Using "does" in that sentence makes it incoherent gibberish.
https://youtu.be/hRoHvy9C1fw
https://youtu.be/rryGiSkwVwE
https://youtu.be/nEajC4Jx8So
So yeah, you DON'T know (anything really), because two good samaritans/innocent bystanders stepped in to help the Marine after the guy was threatening people. He had him restrained for 15 minutes. If that Marine really wanted that guy dead, it would've taken him 15 seconds. If the Marine was the aggressor, why did the two commuters step in to help the other guy instead?
It's a homicide by textbook definition, but it's not murder. If this case gets sent to a grand jury of their peers (fellow New York City commuters tired of the violence on mass transit), none of those people, including the Marine, will be charged.
If the Marine was the aggressor, why *didn't* the two commuters step in to help the other guy instead?
@Soteris you have to understand this was inevitable because the guy would not leave people alone and even try to push somebody onto the train tracks. I would not trust him for anything and I don't blame the Marine for trying to contain the situation. It's unfortunate that he killed the guy but that guy probably would have killed someone else down the line 🤷♂️ Good riddance.
You're all wasting your time, this guy said that its preferable someone gets beaten and their stuff stolen in a home invasion than the home invader being killed for invading. You're arguing with someone who wants you dead
@disgustingweebtrash: All of you have just experienced the "pleasure" of being lectured by that arrogant, idiotic, self-styled "intellectual" who calls himself Soteris, someone who thinks he knows everything, but in fact knows nothing and still tries to BS his way through life.
@NYCQuestions1976 ... No? Using "Does" in that sentence is entirely appropriate to mean that they do have a point, although said sarcastically. Namely its the third person singular of do. Sorry if English makes you uncomfortable but I am not sure you know another language we can communicate in.
I was also aware that other people were helping restrain the victim but did not mention it because quite frankly, its irrelevant. If you want to bring it up then be my guest but it only strengthens my point, as does the fact that they maintained control for 15 minutes before killing them.
Killing someone in self defense only makes sense if that is your only way to protect yourself. The fact that there were many people helping him and that he had already maintained control for 15 minutes means that he could easily maintain restraint on the victim until the cops arrived and apprehended them.
You dont get to just kill someone because you get bored of restraining them or whatever. Furthermore, do you think I am surprised that the bystanders that came to help was fine watching a man die? Do you even know what the bystander effect is? Besides, they were Americans so quite frankly its a good chance that they might even be willing to support him killing the victim. can't say I have high opinion of you people.
@disgustingweebtrash Material items can be replaced, human lives can't. Also, standing and defending your property means that you put yourself at a risk. Maybe you have good odds at winning the fight but there is always a chance that you die which means you just sold your life to protect an Xbox or whatever. Not fucking worth it if you can just leave and let the police deal with the situation.
@Soteris "No? Using "Does" in that sentence is entirely appropriate to mean that they do have a point, although said sarcastically."
You just wrote it yourself: "they DO have a point". Writing "they DOES have a point" is incoherent gibberish. "He/she DOES have a point.", "They DO have a point." Good job proving yourself wrong again.
"The fact that there were many people helping him and that he had already maintained control for 15 minutes means that he could easily maintain restraint on the victim until the cops arrived and apprehended them."
No, that's NOT what happened. The Marine didn't have him under control for 15 minutes BEFORE the other two bystanders stepped in. They saw he needed some help restraining an aggressive individual, so they stepped in and helped, instead of what most people do (and someone there did do) nowadays, just watch and video and hope it goes viral. So once again, wrong as usual.
"can't say I have high opinion of you people."
First, no capitalization to start that sentence. Second, so says the silly stupid shithead socialism worshiper, pontificating on things you've proven you know nothing about (meteorology, grammar, changing the Constitution, general knowledge of the United States, etcetera), all the way in "SweDUHn". 😂😂😂😂😂
You should've just taken the L like an adult, instead of having me publicly humiliate and intellectually destroy you. Then again, I expect nothing less from someone who know less about the world than the zits on my ass. Thanks for the entertainment, "intellectual". 😂😂😂😂😂
@NYCQuestions1976 But I did not write "They does" I wrote "Yahoos does". Yahoos are not "They".
I do not feel like watching the video. Dont like watching people getting murdered personally nor does it change the fact that a civilian killed another civilian without a good reason. And no, attempting to restraining them is not good enough reason to kill them. If the Ex Marine could not restrain the victim then he should not get involved quite frankly.
Also, I dont care about your attempts at grammar nazi. I do not proof read what I type nor do I have an expectation of having proper grammar. I am personally of the opinion that language should serve the conversation and not the other way around. As long as its clearly understood I dont rightly care how its formatted. It is you who is making a big deal about this which is kinda sad.
But I guess this is what you are reduced to when you got nothing else to rebut me with. Come back with some actual arguments next time.
@Soteris The word "yahoos" is plural. It's "yahoo does" and "yahoos do". I don't make the English language rules. Go back in time and file your complaints with England.
"Also, I dont care about your attempts at grammar nazi."
That's highly apparent from that sentence, the rest of the paragraph that follows, and your last paragraph. You maneuver through the English language like a moronic drooling balloon-headed fool.
I posted actual arguments, and you refuse to watch the video footage of what your arguing against. So basically your argument is a form of hearsay and completely irrelevant.
"If the Ex Marine could not restrain the victim then he should not get involved quite frankly."
He stepped up to protect passengers on the train from an extremely aggressive individual. He was struggling because he WASN'T trying to kill him, just restrain him. The guy was threatening innocent bystanders. Again, if that Marine actually wanted that guy dead, it would've taken him 15 seconds, not 15 minutes.
You've been wrong on multiple points now. Just take the losses like an adult.
@NYCQuestions1976 Well then. Would you say it is correct to say "Enjoy life like the French does"?
No part of the engagement between the 3 people and the victim justifies lethal action. Even the act of restraining the victim is quite frankly suspect since being rude and causing a scene is not a cause for others to physically assault you, much less put you in a lethal strangling hold in the thin pretense of "restraining" you.
The ex Marine should know that what he did is not how the restrain someone, it is how you kill them. But even if he does not, that is still a recognized lethal move and would still be illegal to employ. Just because someone is retarded and does not know that shooting people in the head with a gun is lethal violence does not mean that this ignorance allows them to employ guns to shoot people in the head in their attempts to "restrain" someone.
@Soteris No, because "French" in that context is a plural. So it'd be "Enjoy life like the French do." When used as a singular, then "French" would be followed by "does", like here: "Being French does mean that I'm from France, but not necessarily from Paris." If that was a direct translation, then maybe something is lost in the singular and plural translation (no pun intended) from French to English, since French is a Romance language, and English is not. I imagine it's not to dissimilar than first-generation Italians in Brooklyn in the early 1900s unintentionally creating and speaking "Brooklynese", like "Hey yous guys!" There's no direct single-word plural translation for "you" in English; it's just the same word both ways: "Hey you."/"Hey you people." In Italian, there's a direct plural for "you", but I don't remember what it is right now. I admit, my Grandmother would be disappointed. Oh well.
Anyway, carrying on...
"Even the act of restraining the victim is quite frankly suspect since being rude and causing a scene is not a cause for others to physically assault you, much less put you in a lethal strangling hold in the thin pretense of "restraining" you."
If you're not going to watch the video, you should at least watch the local news videos of the people who were there but not part of the restraining, were aggressively threatened by this person before the Marine intervened, and gave the police and the local media their statements affirming those facts. The guy wasn't just "being rude and causing a scene". He was aggressively threatening and menacing innocent commuters with violence.
@NYCQuestions1976 I have seen enough usage of "Does" in relationship with words such as French in its plural form to feel confident enough to completely and unremittingly ignore your opinion on this matter. Even if it is wrong, which I do not think it is, it is still a commonly accepted usage which means that it has plenty of precedent to justify its usage. If you want to continue to bitch and whine over the correct usage of Grammar then bare in mind that language evolves specifically by breaking the linguistic rules. Shakespeare for example is a repeat offender, but I digress. I dont care.
You appear to not get it. I dont care if he was "Aggressively threatening and menacing innocent commuters" It does not give either the police nor other civilians the legal right to execute them. This is something that needs to be settled in the court of law as does its punishment.
@Soteris Again, it's not my opinion. I didn't make the rules. Also, if you're going to invoke Shakespeare as a defense to be linguistically sloppy, at least be at a fraction of his level first. It takes many years to be even partially as great as he was, and you definitely haven't reached that year yet. Maybe this'll help you:
https://youtu.be/8Gv0H-vPoDc
The fact that you don't care about multiple innocent people being menaced and threatened with violence means that you're really the one who's missing the point. The guy who started the entire incident wasn't executed, because there was no planned willful intent to kill him. He died trying to free himself from being restrained after he decided to go after innocent commuters. There's a big difference. The person most responsible for that guy's death is Alvin Bragg. When you constantly and continuously and consistently release repeat felons after they're arrested dozens of times like that guy instead of putting them in prison where they belong, eventually shit will hit the fan.
@NYCQuestions1976 And neither did an omnipotent God. Humans made the rules, and if you know anything about language then you know its full of "exceptions". Those exceptions are where we have decided the rules can go get shafted in a back alleyway. Considering I have been seeing my usage of "Does" all over the place, including in reputable establishments such as official university proclamations I think its fairly safe to say that it has become, if it was not already, an acceptable usage of Grammar.
I will not take further questions on this. If you disapprove then you can submit a complaint to the word police and see if they give a shit. Also, as long as we are throwing videos around you can have one of mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY
So yeah. "Well sod (you) to hades" - Stephen Fry
@NYCQuestions1976 As for the ACTUAL CONVERSATION. Yes, I dont give a rats ass if multiple (even millions) of innocent commuters are menaced and harassed in public. Freedom of speech and all protects your right to be an asshole as well as to be scary to others. While you could get picked up by police for being a disturbance in public it is not something that warrants being executed for and if the 2 people and the ex Marine could not restrain him then fucking let go you bloody idiots. They are the ones who are escalating the situation, they are the ones who caused this situation.
It only makes sense that the victim would struggle to get free if they were restrained by other civilians. If they were cops then you might have a different argument to use but they had no more right to restrain him than he had of physically restraining them. Quite frankly, he had perfectly good excuses to employ self defense, seeing as he actually FUCKING DIED so if he pulled a gun while he was being strangled and killed all three of them that would be justified self defense.
I am eternally surprised and disgusted by you people on the topic of self defense. You keep granting it to people in situations that does not warrant it and completely forget that it is a thing anytime you dont like the person such as now. Such a hypocrite.
@Soteris The socialist doth protest too much, methinks. I didn't ask you any questions. I told you that you were grammatically incoherent, because you were grammatically incoherent. I also never stated that "does" isn't a word. I stated you were using it incoherently. So you just continue being wrong. Multiple times and counting (meteorology, grammar, self-defense, how to change the Constitution, the difference between rights and theories, etcetera, etcetera).
"Freedom of speech and all protects your right to be an asshole as well as to be scary to others."
Yes it does. However, Freedom Of Speech does NOT protect you from being menacing and threatening violence against other people.
Yelling, "FIRE!" in a movie theater. (NOT Freedom Of Speech.)
@Soteris is an asshole. (Freedom Of Speech, and quite accurate.)
Also, being menacing is a crime, being scary is not a crime. Learn the difference.
"Quite frankly, he had perfectly good excuses to employ self defense, seeing as he actually FUCKING DIED so if he pulled a gun while he was being strangled and killed all three of them that would be justified self defense."
No, because he was a CONVICTED FELON, and also had a FELONY WARRANT out for his arrest. It's illegal for felons to own and carry legal firearms.
So now you've also got Freedom Of Speech wrong. Yet another L to add to your list. Rousing achievements, "Shakespeare".
@NYCQuestions1976 "Grammatically incoherent my ass". Its a common usage of grammar, if that confuses you then you sure as hell get confused by clouds and shiny objects on a nigh on daily basis. Sucks to be you I guess.
Also here we have more examples of you not knowing what you are talking about. First of all, the example of yelling fire in a movie theater is used to demonstrate actual harm coming from the usage of speech which has nothing to do with immaterial threats and being menacing. Secondly, you are wrong in that it is illegal. Its not. It was a hypothetical example used as a rhetorical argument in a legal case regarding espionage. It has no legal precedent that I am aware of and as such, not illegal.
As for the word "menacing", if we are to be pedantic (since you appear to have a boner for this sort of nonsense) then we need to make a distinction between the word "menacing"; as its defined in dictionaries or as the legal definition of menacing which changes between states (with some not having it) or other countries.
I should not have to specify that I was using the dictionary definition rather than the local flavor of legal definition but I admit that this obvious implication might be too much to expect from your quite frankly autistic attention span and ability to employ empathy. In other words, its not referring to the crime just because they use the same word.
I also appear to need to correct you on New York gun laws. More specifically, how convicted felons can regain their right to own guns under certain circumstances so it is theoretically possible that he could have a legal gun at the time but that is besides the point. You are trying to shift the conversation away from the fact that you dont want to defend his right to self defense.
Shameful really.
@NYCQuestions1976 Oh really? Shame that I am factually correct then. For example, I can even give you the case number of where the idea of yelling fire in a theater comes from: 249 U. S. 47
I would not take much from that case however since it has been overturned. But yeah, takes a special kind of person to justify "Five more giant paragraphs" to paint a roadmap of just how badly you fucked up.
@Soteris I deliberately used the theater as a benign example, since I don't care to get suspended posting an actual threat as a blatant example because I'm arguing with an obtuse idiotic imbecile that's too stupid to "pick up what's being put down", as the saying goes. I forgot just how much I need to dumb down my intellect just to deal with your blatant ignorance.
Terroristic threats (including direct threats of impending violence) aren't protected speech, but you keep pushing that falsehood. Just another L on your list.
That "special kind" you're describing is called being correct. You should probably try it sometime, if you can manage to tune that stale bowl of oatmeal in between your ears to receive human brain waves. Since I doubt that'll ever happen, maybe you should try answering these questions that were posted as satire, but may reach the low levels of your actual intellectual capabilities:
Have Essential Oils Been Going To Work Throughout The Entire Pandemic While Non-Essential Oils Have Been Forced To Work From Home? ↗
What Is/Are Your Favorite Number (s)? ↗
Are Circles Round Enough? ↗
Is This "Penis" Too Small? ↗
Is This "Vagina" Too Large? ↗
@NYCQuestions1976 Oh really? You deliberately used an objectively incorrect example. Does that make you stupid or does that make you malicious? Why would you try to lie to me?
As for "Terroristic threats", that still does not give you permission to just kill someone if conflict can be avoided. From everything I have heard of this case the victim only went as far as to throw some trash around and cause a bit of a disturbance. This is well within what I would consider "normal behavior" which does not require an extreme response beyond notifying the police at the worst case. I also need to re-iterate that for him to choke the victim to death (alongside having two other people helping), he already achieved restraining the victim and going further is a clear escalation.
And again, if they had just restrained the victim until the police arrived I could definitely see the victim having the ability to sue all three of them for assaulting him in public. You keep going on about how making threats is illegal, so is restraining someone AND strangling them.
@Soteris There was no lie. Posting an actual threat on the site IS a suspendable offense. Believe it or not, GaG does have rules.
I don't know what you read, but he wasn't just "throwing trash" and "making a scene". That's par for the course in the MTA subway system, and that's not what happened in this case. A number of witnesses (who weren't involved in restraining the guy) gave statements to the police that the guy was outright threatening people with violence before the Marine intervened. It's not against the law to restrain an unhinged person who's threatening other people. The guy died because he was trying to free himself so he could continue his rampage.
Whether you like it or not, sometimes in life when you decide to play violent games, you run the risk at winning violent prizes. The lifelong bully got bullied, and shit happened.
Have Essential Oils Been Going To Work Throughout The Entire Pandemic While Non-Essential Oils Have Been Forced To Work From Home? ↗
What Is/Are Your Favorite Number (s)? ↗
Are Circles Round Enough? ↗
Is This "Penis" Too Small? ↗
Is This "Vagina" Too Large? ↗
@NYCQuestions1976 But your usage of the example of "Fire!" in a theater is incorrect. It does not relate to this conversation and demonstrates you attempting to change the topic through malicious means. An honest person would not make that comparison, unless of course they are retarded and dont know which I am perfectly fine with letting that door be open for you.
As you said, this is par for the course in the MTA subway system so why this person in particular deserved to be strangled to death is quite frankly beyond me. And once again, they had no right to restrain him and furthermore no right to even employ a lethal strangling grip, much less actually kill him just for "resisting" an actual attack on his person.
I dont think you have quite grasped the concept of a civilized society. To be fair though, you ARE an American so the fact that you are less civilized is not a surprise to me.
@Soteris There was no malicious intent on my part. Don't blame your inability to understand a benign workaround analogy on me. I'm not risking suspension because I'm arguing with a certified window licker. Doesn't your tongue get tired from being on glass all day?
"And once again, they had no right to restrain him and furthermore no right to even employ a lethal strangling grip, much less actually kill him just for "resisting" an actual attack on his person."
Should the Marine and the others waited until he actually hurt innocent commuters before he/they intervened? You're fucking stupid. A bully bullied the wrong people, and shit happened. Play a lifetime of violent games, eventually you win violent prizes.
"I dont think you have quite grasped the concept of a civilized society. To be fair though, you ARE an American so the fact that you are less civilized is not a surprise to me."
You've got some nerve. Glass houses much? Living in a place where it's dark for 6 months and in a country that treats its special needs school-aged children like cattle instead of people.
@NYCQuestions1976 Liar. You have not argued in good faith since the start. Good to know you are also a coward. Never once have I sat back and considered if something I said or not was "inappropriate" and might get me suspended. Sure, I have gotten a few angry messages from the staff but be that as it may. Furthermore, I am not afraid to get suspended in the first place. Does your faux status on this side hold some kind of misguided meaning for you? How sad.
Also yes, civilians should not get involved in situations like these specifically because of outcomes like these. Unless the person is an active threat, which this person clearly was not, then they should mind their own fucking business and let the actual professionals handle the situation, which we train and pay them for.
Likewise how in a situation where there is a shooter we dont need a bunch of 2nd amendment idiots running into the scene and trying to be a hero. It makes the situation infinitely worse no matter the good intentions (HA! Imagine that! A republican with good intentions, such a novel idea) they are still contributing to the chaos and the damages.
I could bet you anything that the situation in New York would have resolved itself perfectly well had they not jumped in to act. It would have been just another day in the subway with its millions of small infractions and incidents and perhaps the victim would even be taken into police custody again. Instead, right now we have the worst possible outcome with a person dead. Congratulations! You just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Also, I dont have to take shit from a developed country without functioning healthcare.
The guy who would let his mother get harassed on public transportation without consequence shouldn't be calling anyone a coward.
@Soteris "Never once have I sat back and considered if something I said or not was "inappropriate" and might get me suspended."
Are you seriously this fucking stupid? You really don't know the difference between posting direct threats towards someone and just being inappropriate?
Paragraphs 2 through 4:
More unbridled stupidity. The guy WAS an actual active threat. You stating otherwise doesn't make it reality. If you spend your life threatening innocent people, eventually you just might threaten the wrong innocent people. A lifelong violent bully paid the ultimate price for being a lifelong violent bully. Oh and as a socialism government worshipping shit stain, you're going to lecture me on individual rights and freedoms? Go fuck yourself with Marx's dick. Perfect segway...
"Also, I dont have to take shit from a developed country without functioning healthcare."
Not only will you take it, but you'll fucking like it, and fucking ask for more. My son's emergency appendectomy 5 years ago was over $102,000. I paid $600 out of pocket for the whole thing, because there actually IS functioning healthcare in the United States. Unlike socialism bullshit healthcare in the Union Of European Socialist Republics, where you get aspirin and routine everyday bullshit for free, but then need to deal with this when a real problem arises:
news.yahoo.com/24-old-tried-pop-she-174509127.html
"Clinicians in the UK's public health system, NHS, referred her for further testing, but the wait list was nine months long. So Harrison paid £200, or about $250, for an ultrasound at a private hospital. The results indicated the lump could be cancer, so Harrison was bumped up the NHS waitlist for a biopsy, which she underwent in June 2021."
If she waited the 9 months, she'd be dead.
So make sure your own home is in order before throwing stones. Glass houses, hypocrite. Imagine a "developed" country treating their own school-age special needs children like farm animals. Shameful.
@gorydetails Bingo. He's using the word coward while looking in the mirror.
@gorydetails Oh I am sure your mother would be so happy and proud over you protecting her honor while you get escorted by police into prison and possibly ruining any hope for a successful future. Or maybe she would just be happy the psycho who randomly murders people is behind bars.
In this case you're wrong again.
@NYCQuestions1976 Oh please, dont act so dramatic. It sounds like you are talking about something way worse than some hurtful words online towards strangers you can't possibly physically harm even if you wanted to. Grow up.
The guy in the subway was a threat in the same way as literally anything is a threat. I mean, the roof above you COULD fall down and crush you to death but its not particularly likely. Likewise, the chances that this person would pose an actual threat to anyone is incredibly low in my opinion. On the contrary, the type of person that immediately jumps and strangles someone to death for the vaguest perception of a threat sounds like a menace to society that we would all be safer if they were behind bars.
I mean, you said it yourself. "eventually you might threaten the wrong... person". That does not sound like a stable and safe individual to me and THAT sounds like a threat if anything in this whole situation. How the fuck do you think that is something that would be allowed in a civilized society?
You paid 600 dollars for a hospital visit? 56% of Americans can't cover a 1000 dollar emergency. You say 600 dollars as if it is a negligent amount when in reality it is something a majority of Americans would struggle to pay for. That is quite frankly pathetic from a supposedly developed country.
As for the NHS in the UK? You do realize that the ruling party has spent the last few decades intentionally sabotaging the NHS so that they can hack it up into pieces and sell it to private individuals and create an American style of healthcare system to enrich their corrupt friends.. You do know that right?
The NHS which used to work REALLY well is being utterly demolished to function akin to YOUR healthcare system. Nice shooting yourself in the foot by the way, masterfully done.
@Soteris Six more paragraphs of made-up socialism bullshit. @gorydetails is apparently correct. You're clearly a coward hiding behind faux civility. You'd allow your innocent mother, daughter, sister, wife, etcetera, to be threatened with direct unhinged violence, while you just stand there, and do absolutely nothing, in the name of "civilized society"? If that really is the case, then you're nothing more than a subhuman shit stain.
You really believe that woman in the United Kingdom is the only person in the Union Of European Socialist Republics who had a similar shitty experience? Wrong! Let add it to the endless list of things that @Soteris shares his vast ignorance on:
worldpopulationreview.com/.../health-care-wait-times-by-country
As I accurately stated, the Union Of European Socialist Republics covers routine bullshit quite well. However, if you need a specialist? You better specifically be in Switzerland, Netherlands, Germany, or the United States! Otherwise, get in line and wait, and possibly die! Canada, Norway, Sweden, New Zealand, United Kingdom, and Australia all have FAR WORSE waiting times than the United States when it comes to seeing a specialist. Now let's just focus on our two countries, shall we?
Percent of the population waiting more than a month for a specialist:
Sweden: 52%.
United States: 27%
So again, you'll take it, you'll like it, and you'll ask for it again, you stupid, anti-freedom, anti-rights, socialism-worshiping, cowardly "intellectual".
@NYCQuestions1976 Another lunatic that belong behind bars for the safety of society I see. Does not surprise me.
You can also talk about wait times until your face is blue but that does not make us worse than USA where again, about half the US population could not afford the treatment you got and 25% say they have family members who delay medical treatment because they can't afford it. Its easy to not have any waiting times when a quarter of the people who needs medical attention decides not to show up.
How many Americans have simply decided to DIE rather than get treatment for completely preventable diseases simply because they are afraid that the costs will ruin their whole family? Do you feel no sense of shame for your own country who treats them as disposable garbage? I have seen teenagers who replaces their last years Iphone with more compassion than America does with its citizens.
At least in my country, and countries around Europe, you actually get your treatment. Sure it might take a bit longer but you WILL get it. Furthermore, if you can't wait then they will treat it as an emergency appointment so the wait times are for those who can afford to wait.
But that is just giving you the benefit of the doubt. In reality, the wait times in USA is among the worst in the world too. Dont delude yourself into thinking that you get better service than we do, you dont. Sure, you can pay out of your nose for a better healthcare experience but that is the exception that proves the rule of what the average healthcare in USA actually is. And how much do you pay for your healthcare again? Even if we ignore the fact that ours is paid by the government, it is still MUUUUCH cheaper than what you have to pay. In fact, I think healthcare in USA is about twice as expensive as in Sweden. Sucks to be you I guess.
@Soteris You've been proven wrong on everything that you've bloviated on so far, so your opinions are utterly worthless. Let's add some more wrongs to your endless wrong list, shall we?
www.newsweek.com/.../worlds-best-hospitals-2023
The list clearly speaks for itself. The main reason things cost money here is because they're BETTER. Are there hands in the cookie jar (pharmaceutical companies, government, insurance companies) adding to the cost as well? Of course, but that happens in all healthcare systems (especially with big fat stupid bloated grim reaper socialism government in socialism healthcare). With everything considered, I'll take my routine co-pays and immediate care over waiting to die. So you enjoy your free aspirins and Z-paks and other free routine bullshit, and 52% of your population on month-long (or more) waiting lists for specialists. Sucks to be you, period.
@NYCQuestions1976 As they say, hard times create strong men. strong men create good times, good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times. Soteris is a shining example of the last phrase.
@NYCQuestions1976 No, you have not proven me wrong a single time. All you have done is make wild claims of me being wrong and then held onto those beliefs like they were a life raft in the ocean. Sorry if I dont care about your opinion on this matter when I have actually provided factual evidence on why YOU are wrong.
Also, big deal. The rich and powerful gets great healthcare in USA, no one is denying this, but your average American gets shit all. The difference between the best hospitals in USA vs as example Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset is that the American hospitals are built up to serve the elites where as the Swedish hospital is research institute focusing on improving healthcare.
Saying that the "main reason" is cost is as such not entirely wrong. The rich in USA definitely spent a pretty penny ensuring that they get the best care possible, but it has nothing to do with the cost of your average treatment nor does it translate to the vast majority of other hospitals in USA where as every hospital in other developed countries are pretty damn good.
The baseline of standard is not even close. I mean just look at the opioid epidemic for example which can be traced back to doctors over-prescribing medications based on financial contributions by pharmaceutical corporations rather than the medical need of the patients. Does not matter how good your hospitals are if your doctors are corrupt and give you harmful treatments for personal benefits.
Fact is, I am getting world class medical treatments in my country, it could be slightly better if I spent a bunch of money on it like in USA but the difference is negligible. You on the other hand is NOT getting the level of treatment the American elites are and you are objectively getting a worse treatment than I would if not outright harmful if your doctor decides to follow the money rather than his duty.
@gorydetails
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." Is just a stupid quote and has nothing to do with reality or history. It is something that people say to entertain idiots like you with something that SOUNDS believable unless you actually think about it.
@Soteris Proven you wrong a single time? No, I've proven you wrong EVERY time. All you've done is supply nonsensical sloppy opinions and embarrassed yourself.
"The difference between the best hospitals in USA vs as example Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset is that the American hospitals are built up to serve the elites where as the Swedish hospital is research institute focusing on improving healthcare."
That list focuses on many aspects of overall quality of medical treatment, including patients' opinions. Claiming that only the elite get the best treatment is your opinion, and it's wrong. People here can walk into any urgicare or emergency room and receive treatment. People who complain want free shit from cradle to grave, and some people who have coverage never even bother to go to see any doctors. You've been fed a line of shit about healthcare here.
The opioid crisis wasn't/isn't just about doctors and the pharmaceutical companies. Liberals in the government also had/have a vested interest in getting people hooked on that crap, because they're more than likely to develop a lifelong dependency on the government. The more often that happens, then the more they can demand that taxes go higher.
"Fact is, I am getting world class medical treatments in my country, it could be slightly better if I spent a bunch of money on it like in USA but the difference is negligible."
Yes, you're getting world-class treatment for everyday bullshit, then you're more than likely to wait in line if/when shit hits the fan. I get the same (or better) world-class treatment, except I have co-pays ($25/$35/$50/$100) for routine bullshit, and NO WAITING for specialists. Contrary to the lies spread by liberals and socialists, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Sometimes when it is, it's just astroturf.
Anytime, feces.
All relevant to the events leading up to his death.
Well in my dojo we were taught the difference between choking somebody out with the airway and then choking them out by blocking blood flow and knocking them out that way.
Choking somebody out with the airway can even kill them later in the night when their esophagus collapses suddenly. The Marine was probably struggling too much and forgot about the airway 🤷♂️
yes, he was a Bden voter.
Crazy shit man.
You can also add your opinion below!
