Do you believe that feminism is science?

[Anonymous]

Feminism states that society runs on gender.

Gender defines what is a man and what is a woman.

Feminists say that our conception of gender is harmful to women. It is also harmful to men but feminism is about women.

But that is what FEMINISM believes.

Why should anyone who isn't a feminist believe that our conception of male and female are damaging?

I'm sure feminism has a humongous globe of facts perspectives philosophies science and so on.

But why should feminists be given authority over what is moral? What is good for women and what is bad for women?

Why should people who disagree with feminists believe what feminists say?

Is feminism science in the same way that physics is science. A person can go learn physics and know the truth of how fast things drop towards the earth pulled by gravity.

Do you believe that if only a person was truly honest in their investigations, they would come to agree and believe everything that feminism believes?

[Lliam]

Feminism is not a science. It's an ideology like liberalism or libertarianism. Like them, "feminism" has a long history and a broad range of offshoots, schools of thought, and definitions.

I get that you are up in arms about the whole concept, but you are generalizing much. Where are you getting your definitions, from a few, vocal, self-promoting, self-appointed experts - both bitter misandrist women and bitter misogynist men who make a living spouting venom in books and lectures?
How many people actually buy into that crap?

As far as I'm concerned, every woman who enjoys the right to vote, to sign contracts, to own property, to have an equal right to education and employment, use birth control, and to dress how they wish, is a feminist to some degree.

Women can still choose to be housewives and many do.

I don't have any respect for bitter misandrists. But neither do I have respect for men who bitch all day about women's rights and act like victims.

[madhatters4]

i think we need to get on track with this as you seem to have confused feminism, feminist, with several things

feminism is an ideology or concept. feminism doesn't believe anything.

feminism is not science. Science is a hypothesis proven or disproven through experimentation.

Feminist in the concept that woman should be treating equal to men.

[Asker]

I am not confusing feminism whatsoever and I educate myself on actual feminist theory.

Feminism believes a lot of things. Feminism is extremely intellectual, scientific, philosophical, and psychological.

The science and perspectives rhat feminists are generating are leading the world in many areas.

This means political implications. Those political implications are drawn from the "science" that feminists do.

I'm not even disputing the facts that they discover.

What I dispute is that the things they determine to be truths are severely lacking and despite the depth of science they DO do, it is still lacking big time.

Social science in general is like that.

But the political implications are such, that these things are treated as science and government ultimately aims to incorporate feminists conclusions into policy proposals.

[madhatters4]

this is the definition of feminism
"the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes."

you can't ascribe a single view of feminism as you are doing it because it is based on personal beliefs. what one person's views on feminism can differ from another's views. so the only true definition of feminism is it's dictionary definition. otherwise you are just operating on opinions.

and just to prove this. i'm a feminist. What is my view on feminism?

[Asker]

You're not much of a feminist if you have no consumed feminist works.

Your opinion on what feminism means or is is utterly ignorant if you've never educated yourself about it.

Intellectuals who spend their lives studying do titanic amounts of work.

Sure 99% of feminists are uneducated people who get their opinions in trickle down fashion from intellectual feminists.

What is trickled down is overly simplified concepts which in reality are so deep that they go to the deepest and most complex forms of philosophy.

Hegel for example. From Hegel to Marx. From Marx there's a few steps critiquing him and feminism is Marxist but mostly critiques Marx.

Sure there was a time in the past where feminism was not so intellectual. It was just about "equal rights."

But we generally have equal rights by government standards today.

Feminism is not about government rights. Feminism is about social equality. It's about communitarianism. It's about identifying all the ways that society of today disadvantages women.

It's not just rights. It goes as deep as communism goes which is extremely deep.

[madhatters4]

you can educate yourself on feminists works and it doesn't make you a feminist just because you ascribe them or have read them.

if a self professed feminists publishes a book saying, "men should pay for women's meals" does that then make the act of men paying for meals a feminist act?
NO. it means one, self-professed feminist, feels a certain way.

again feminism has an objective definition with no room for interpretation.

people's application of feminism often occurs at their own subjective version of what feminism is.

So i am a feminist. i don't allow myself to simply be told what feminism is by a person whose version is based on their personal opinions because then there is literally NO feminism and instead just a billion opinions. I ascribe to the objective definition. Equality. that's it. it's not hard.

[madhatters4]

thanks for MHO

[Alli39]

From Mirriam-Webster:

feminism (noun) - fem·​i·​nism - belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

It's not a science and it's not claiming to be.

"Feminism" isn't being put in charge of morality. It's just that most people in the modern world don't think that sex/gender-based prejudices are actually moral/ethical, meaning feminist values are prominent.

As alway, I'd like to remind everyone that the point of feminism is gender equality, not misandry (even if there are extremist out there pretending otherwise).

[Anonymous]

No, feminism is not science. Feminism, like a lot of other words, has been tossed around so much it's become a hollow catch phrase that has really lost any meaning. Feminism, woke, indoctrination, corrupt, misogyny, misandry, all get thrown around when people get mad about something. I just want to live my life, pursue what my husband and I hope to achieve without some outside fucknuts telling me what my "societal role" is and be left the hell alone. I have opportunity to succeed or to fail, that's up to me. I don't want to be a token anything, and won't be.

[Asker]

Don't say all that near a feminist lol.

[Opinion Owner]

I think the majority of women, myself included, would have no problem saying it.

[Sirenboobzilla]

I don't proclaim to be a feminist, though many of my ideals line up with it. That said, I 100% agree with this

[msmissydc]

'Live my life, pursue what my husband and I hope to achieve without some outside fucknuts telling me what my societal role is (... )'. Literally what Actual feminism is about!

[Asker]

@msmissydc Sure on a basic level.

But on a higher level, feminists are doing serious intellectual work.

And if you dare disagree with them, well, God help you.

[provokeesmokee]

Feminism states society is run by gender? Really?

I need you to cite your source, lmao.

Technically, gender studies is a social science, so it's kinda science?

I'd say it's more accurate to say feminism would improve science. One, encouraging more women in STEM fields will benefit society via more diverse and varied viewpoints.

As an example, medical science: most drug studies completed to date are significanty biased towards the following demographics:

• Whites
• Men
• Relatively healthy (e. g. normal weight, no illnesses)
• 25-45 years of age

That limits our knowledge and ability to accurately study how drugs affect the majority of the population - even in white men who aren't relatively healthy (i. e. most white men are at least overweight).


How is biased information good for science? It isn't.


Focusing on more equal representation will result in better data and better science.

[ManOnFire]

Feminism as we know it is largely a white female American (and British) construct that has dictated the way people look at sexuality and gender relations. It isn't a science, it has been a malignant movement to control both men and women and how they will behave with one another, and even how they will feel about each other.

Sadly it has spilled into other cultures in recent decades, grooming women in these cultures to think and live just like the insecure white-feminists in the U. S. who want to control others and how they think.

[Anonymous]

Feminism is a political power movement with the objective or turning society against males for the benefit and profit of women, to the detriment of men and boys. The biggest problem for women is that modern feminism harms women more than it helps them. And, of course, it obviously harms males.

Feminism has been on the decline for years. Men don't support it for obvious reasons, and most women today don't support it either, with the exception of naive girls / young women, and women who are old enough to know better but harbor hate, feelings of inferiority and self-loathing. The latter group are the ones who perpetuate the movement.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

This is either a really stupid question or an incredibly clever question and I'm still trying to wrap my head around what you're saying.

I think I get what you're trying to say but where it gets confusing is that feminism is more like a religion than a science. And what makes it even more confusing is that science as we know it today has become more like a religion than possibly in over 300 years.

[Asker]

I can agree with what you're saying lol.

Feminism most certainly employs science. For example a lot of anthropology is used to support feminist ideas.

I agree that it's more like a religion. But they must convince us and government that their conclusions are factual in order to make changes on the policy level.

That's why I asked the question. Because feminists seem to posit their beliefs as scientific facts which require government intervention to fix.

And if you disagree with any feminist conclusion than you are a disgusting bigot who deserves punishment.

For example. If you disagree that Trans mtf should compete with women, you're an anti scientific monster.

That stuff all comes from feminism. Feminists do 99% of the work on gender.

And my point is that if you dare disagree with feminist conclusions, they act like you are being unscientific.

They seem to believe their conclus9ns are undeniable scientific facts.

And they need to do that in order to get the policy changed they want.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

That's just politics though, they want us arguing about stuff which there is no right answer because if we argued about stuff we can fix we'd realize it's because of the rich people.

[CubsterShura]

Feminism is not science, but it is an established ideology and school of thought that can and has been studied for ages and you can find a lot of literature and data related to this topic. You can incorporate scientific methods in feminist study when collecting data or doing research.

[Sirenboobzilla]

It is and isn't. Science as we all know it is the study of the physical and natural world. Everything we can see, feel, taste, hear and perceive. Feminism is a social science which is the study of human behavior. Ultimately, on a universal scale, none of the social sciences matter

[Asker]

That's a tough thing to hear for me because it seems to me that social science sees itself as fact and truth.

And as it's status as fact and truth stands, that means it I'd wrong to disagree. Especially wrong because of the political implications behind the findings of social science.

I actually majored in sociology when I went to college. But I have since discarded social science because I no longer believe in analyzing people and coming up with government intervention to fix the problems of culture and society.

We are moving towards a society that forces change for the sake of fairness. Forces culture to renounce its ways and to submit to the moral demands of the social scientist.

I think it is an evil ideology and I believe that freedom is more important that people being perfectly equal.

[ObscuredBeyond]

It's a crackpot set of beliefs focused on bending logic over backwards to make excuses for Kate Millet's antisocial behavior, rather than just admit that women destroyed themselves over the span of a century in the name of following blindly the lead of a mental asylum escapee whose sisters were 100% right about her being a menace to society!

[MadhuriDixit]

Feminism- Women = Men

Psuedo Feminism- Women> Men

[Sirenboobzilla]

Facts

[Asker]

I'm really talking about real feminism though. I only read feminist works.

I do not consume "feminist" material on social media because none of them even read the most basic works such as The second sex.

Feminism is not just about women = men.

Feminism is about identifying those aspects of society which subjugate women and put women into a bad position or disadvantage women and so on and so on.

I don't dispute the facts and truths that feminists discover about the inequalities in our society. The way our beliefs about women are harmful.

[MadhuriDixit]

Agreed!

[Anonymous]

Nope. It's an activist ideology. A way of viewing the world. A new religion.

Like the other Marxist doctrines, it seeks power, control, and self propagation.

[Asker]

Yes it is a leftist ideology and 90% of feminist intellectuals are indeed communists. Not sure the actual percent but they regularly do polls on intellectuals to see their stances on various topics.

I wish more people knew about this. But I feel that conservatives are equally as abhorrent as feminists and leftists are.

So I fear for the way the world is going.

I believe in liberty personally. That makes me a conservative but I would label myself a radical liberal. Radical for freedom.

[RavVid]

Feminism is Marxist political philosophy and not to be confused with science at any level.

Why do you think feminism is a science? There are two sex chromosomes X & Y. Usually they occur as XX or XY pairs but some other combinations do happen as genetic disorders.

That is science. A 101 genders is not science.

[Spongebobssocks]

No feminism is a toxic ideology that are trying to shame women for being feminine and hate on men for being masculine.

[Sirenboobzilla]

You're describing pseudo feminism

[ManOnFire]

@Sirenboobzilla Pseudo feminism? Just how many branches of this garbage is there? lol

[Sirenboobzilla]

About as many as the religious branches of garbage

[ManOnFire]

@Sirenboobzilla So then feminism is a very messed up belief system lol.

[Sirenboobzilla]

It can be. Sure. Not everyone agrees with it. Certainly goes against the beliefs of some cultures and religions. If you're going to bash on them, you should at least know what they are. Otherwise you come off as some moron who finishes sentences with "lol" or something.

[ManOnFire]

@Sirenboobzilla I do know what they are "lol". In fact I used to study a lot of feminism growing up. Not because I liked or believed in it, but because I was writing a book back then and needed to know about the other side before saying things I knew nothing about. Most people, but especially women of today, are not aware of feminist history and the deeper parts of it, they just want to be fanatics who think it's God's will.

Feminism has a racist history for one. And even a present really. Many so-called feminists are the very Karens who think all black men are predators. Did you also know that in the 90s when Andrea Yates was on trial for killing her kids that the Feminist Majority Foundation actually funded that woman's case? Which they also did for some other women in their trials. But never for any women of color. Did you also know that during the Iraq War white American feminists went over there trying to protest women's rights in a whole other culture they really had no deep knowledge of, thinking they could instill their American ideologies into their society? It's no surprise that they were captured by the insurgents and beheaded.

There's more though. Should I go on? "lol"

[Sirenboobzilla]

If you studied it so deeply, then your earlier question was really unnecessary. I'm aware of the darker roots and moments of feminism. It's the reason I don't ever claim nor wish to be one. I agree with some of the ideology, but it's ultimately tainted. Hell, I'm in agreement that American feminists had no business meddling in the internal social affairs of another. Influence it from afar and let three people do the rest.

[ManOnFire]

@Sirenboobzilla My earlier question was being cheeky. I've heard the term 'pseudo feminism' but never actually took it that seriously because it's just more nonsensical division in an already fractured, troubled 'movement.'

But that's the problem. No group or anyone else for that matter should be trying to influence what other people do from afar. We shouldn't be trying to control people even if we don't like or agree with them and their lifestyles, thinking, etc.

[Asker]

I don't think either of you read any feminism. You both seem to be pulling shit out of your asses.

Feminism is many things. Currently feminism is a very large intellectual umbrella which contains extremely intelligent people working hard on many topics.

Philosophy, science, psychology, gender, and so on and so on.

I'm not saying this in support of feminism.

But not knowing what it really is is just the fact of reality. Most people have zero clue.

Most "feminists" on this website have zero clue.

Most "feminisrs" on the internet are just angry women.

I'm not saying this to support them but to point out the facts.

The communists are also highly intelligent extremely intellectual people.

That doesn't mean I agree with communism I think it is an evil ideology.

But I know why to a degree that other people don't. I can critique feminism from its root in ways I don't see anyone on this site remotely capable of.

[ManOnFire]

I don't think you're reading books and I don't think you're digging deep. You're literally disregarding facts on feminism to believe an idea you have about it.

These "intellectuals" want it to be wrong for a person to be straight and want us to believe there are all kinds of extrasexualities and genders. These "intellectuals" want male violence and male suicide rates to always be in focus so that we never have to regard men as humans. And these "intellectuals" can almost never tell you exactly what they stand for. They're feminists yet talk about standing for both men and women/equality. Ridiculous. You might as well not even identify with feminism.

I don't think you're a guy, and I don't think you're aware of what feminism is at all.

[Spongebobssocks]

@ManOnFire i dont think its a guy either 🤣 but it might be. Either way I respect the askers opinion. Great question🤗👍🏻

[Sirenboobzilla]

@ManOnFire I was going to type up a long essay. But summing up: I do agree with you.

As for the asker: The primary problem with all of that is that, as wonderful as the initial ideology and goals of feminism are, you can't ignore how people have abused and oppressed others under the guise of the name. Feminism calls for equity and equality. Under the same name today, some radical feminists wish to be dominant over men in general. It's why I said in an earlier comment that it's effectively tainted.

My personal belief is to judge others based off of their merit and treatment of the world around them. Your faith, culture, and education all help paint a picture of you; but you can be of the most beloved faith from any of the amazing cultures of the world with a great education and still end up a shit person. Not saying you specifically, nor anyone else that's commented, just in general.

[ManOnFire]

@Sirenboobzilla I second that.

@spongebobssocks I rest my case, your honor.

[Asker]

No I highly agree with you guys.

See, this is the problem with being absolutely 100% honest. Honesty requires that you look at the objective facts and integrate them into your consciousness.

Feminism is as high level an intellectual thing as literally any other intellectual pursuit.

That. Does. Not. Make. Them. Correct.

If you must know, my political leanings are radical free market capitalism. Complete lessa

[Asker]

God damnit. Laissez-faire capitalism! I tried to fix my typo and hit the button.

Anyways. If you refuse to acknowledge the scholarship, intelligence, and so on of feminists, you are just helping them.

Just because they're smart and backed by the colleges doesn't mean they're correct.

But all the dummies in the world are so mad at feminists and your mad at other dummies who don't even understand their own beliefs.

Most feminists beliefs are overly simplified concepts trickled down to them from people way smarter than they are.

And y'all are all on the internet arguing with eachother.

Dummy anti feminist vs Dummy feminist.

But I suppose you must fear the intellectual nature of feminism because there is no intellectual alternative you can run to to help you reconcile with the things they believe.

And that is why the conservative right has retreated into religion in order to fight the feminist threat on freedom and liberty.

And now the conservatives are abandoning freedom and liberty in the name of the fight against feminism and its conclusions drawn which I believe they see as scientific fact.

[Asker]

Basically I am a freedom and liberty guy. I believe that feminism must be met head on, on am intellectual level equal to theirs.

But woefully, our only "legitimate" opposition to feminism are religious conservatives who are the worst dummies of all.

And I just fear for the future. I wonder what's going to happen.

The intellectuals are being met with religion and if we go too far in either direction it's absolute fucking disaster.

Freedom and liberty are the only proper state for us.

I fear for its destruction because the opposition to the left is a right full of ignorant dummies who can't fight except with religion.

Sorry I guess I'm just ranting at this point.

[RingOfFire]

"But why should feminists be given authority over what is moral?"

They shouldn't and they are not.

Feminism is more like anti-science than science. Millions of years of evolution created distinct differences between men and women and they are not the same. Therefore why should it be assumed that women have the same capabilities as men? To deny that is to explicitly deny science.

[Asker]

This is exactly the debate I am investigating.

It's quite the rabbit hole.

[Anonymous]

In the west feminism stopped serving any useful purpose a long time ago and became something very different to its stated goals.

If you are an advocate of equality then you should just use the term equality, the term feminism is not required or helpful.

[jahaims]

Feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

Science: the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained

[WhitneySnow]

Feminism is based on the belief that men and women are equal. Feminism fights against the patriarchy, which believes that men are superior.

[inhua]

if that were the case, why don't feminists fight against the inequalities of the family/divorce/criminal courts? or for paternity fraud to be a crime? or outlawing infant male circumcision? or outlaw the military draft? etc.

[Asker]

I didn't ask for a definition of what feminism is. I'm well aware as I have read plenty of feminist works.

[Asker]

@inhua This is not what feminism is about. And you're asking questions to a person who only knows as far as her comment says. "Feminism fights against the patriarchy."

Feminism is not about equality.

It is about pointing out the aspects of our societies, which cause harm to women.

Their goal is equality. But equality is not feminism. Feminism is about women.

[WhitneySnow]

Awesome. Feminism is a political philosophy and is no more or less supported by science than any other political philosophy (though there is plenty of scientific research in support of gender equality).

[Asker]

There plenty of science that's for sure.

But if a feminist says "our conception of female is harmful to women" and a conservative disagrees with that statement, now a war has begin in a sense.

I just think it's interesting. I can understand why conservatives would reject the idea that our conception of woman is harmful to women.

But I know that feminists and left leaning people in general see their views as absolute morally correct facts. And they explode with rage and fury when anyone disagrees, accusing them of being ignorant, stupid, and hateful.

I pointed out the belief that our conception of woman is damaging to women, because it is a specific belief that feminists have, rather than asking a general question.

I wonder if feminists believe that it's OK to disagree with feminism.

I don't think it is.

If we look at transgender people, we see that if a person denies transgender science (which is 99% feminism, feminism leads the world in gender study) that means that that person is causing actual real physical harm to transgender people.

If a person denies that our concept of female damages women, a feminist will say that to deny this ", truth" is to physically and mentally harm women.

It's just very interesting to me. The feminists decide the facts and anyone who disagrees is a monster.

[WhitneySnow]

It can cause mental and emotional harm, but that’s often much more devastating than physical harm.

[Snakeyes7]

Feminist science is performing an experiment that goes wrong and then instead of wondering if the experiment needs to be changed, they decide that everyone's perception of reality needs to change so that we would see the results of the experiment as correct.

[Anonymous]

Feminism is faqing bullshit.
Not everyone wants to be in the work force fighting for equal rights and pays and working as hard as men. Some of us are absolutely content with staying home and being house wives.

[Asker]

That's not really what feminism is about. It's about women having the freedom to choose.

Really it's about identifying those aspects of society which harm and disadvantage women.

But that doesn't make it science or truth or fact.

[pethouse]

Sorry dog but it’s kind of one or the other, most women don’t get to choose, they have to work

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

If you believe psychology is a science, then feminism’s ideology is based off of psychological studies specifically regarding gender identity and queer theory.

[Asker]

And even those theories are based in philosophy. I do not believe psychology is science because of the unanswerable philosophical questions which undergird all of psychology.

Obviously there is a degree to which observational/behavioral science can learn things about human psychology.

But those are only observational and do not explain from which the actions truly came.

For example the question of free will remains unanswered and I don't think we will ever know psychology well until we understand the nature of free will or lack thereof.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

If you don’t believe psychology is a science then I can’t change your mind

[Potteplante]

Feminism it itself is an ideology - but you're correct in that feminist use sociology - here gender studies and social constructivism. As an equalitarian I can stand behind a lot what they say. - of course excluding radical feminists.

[Anonymous]

Feminism is NOT a science, it is a dogma.

At the moment it doesn’t care about men and women being equal, all it cares about is power and being able to wield influence,

It doesn’t care if working class women suffer because all of those who profit the most from feminism are upper middle/upper class and are politically active and wish to disrupt western society to their advantage the one thing they ALL have in common is they are ALL college/university educated.

[Asker]

Hey you're one person who is correct. They are university educated.

Feminism is an intellectual thing and I see far too often that anti feminists have zero clue about this fact.