Like Hitler back in ‘41? We had a choice then too. I see so much anti-Ukrainian talk here. And fine, argue against funding. But then argue against Israel’s funding. Be consistent. I think they’re arguing FOR Putin.
Waat does Russia get? Exposed as weak militarily, their economy suffers, they loose men and material on mass and all they get is what is left of donbass and Kiev.
What does Ukraine get for trying to join NATO? They get invaded. They loose territory, people, infrastructure etc and they run up huge war loans that they will be on the hook for decades later.
What does the EU get? If Ukraine joins one day they will be saddled with Ukraine's war loans.
What does the US get out the war in Ukraine? A place to sell and buy their weapons. Europe buys their higher priced oil and gas over Russia. A piece of everything the Ukraine economy produces for the next 40 years. Being able to strong arm Ukraine politics. Justification for NATO to exist. The contractx to rebuild Ukraine. A chance to weaken and bleed Russia. The chance to knd day install a us friendly government in Russia. Justification for the US massive military budget.
F Europe, F Nato. We, the US, should just bring our troops home and let Europe fight with each other. We can then make peace and trade agreements with the winner.
@CaptainSmartass as you can tell, I am anything but diplomatic and nuanced. And those in the diplomatic servive should be less so as the first Iraq War could have been avoided if you know the history of the US ambassodor and her meeting with Saddam.
@OddBeMe I am blunt much of the time. I can also be more diplomatic as it has been inherent in my job function. Things can be said clearly yet in a polished way although the meaning is the same.
Online everyone thinks they are smarter than the one they argue with. I would love to compare real world success with many of the D-bags on here as they just simply can’t stack up. Actually, throughout my life there have been so many people who like to pass concrete judgements on others but they haven’t personally accomplished anything big in life… it’s astonishing. I just find them confusing as I have exceeded them by huge lengths in many aspects of life including the key ones of relationships, finances, happiness and career. Ridiculous people who don’t have a true view of what their earned place is in the world are quite common.
Like it or not Putin can't be defeated at a reasonable costs. Russia isn't some 3rd world country, it is the country with the largest nuclear stockpile pile on earth. If you want to control him you got to pay attention to his interest and the interests of the people around him.
@Pohjolan The USSR was defeated by the same dysfunctional communist economy which took them down the next year.
Afghanistan is basically the opposite of the Ukraine geographically and demographically, as well as how they have to wage war.
Afghanistan had a far higher birth rate and geography that enabled a less expensive form of waging war that they could sustain almost indefinably. The Ukraine by contrast is depended upon cost-prohibitive large armies, forign military equipment and tactics that is already exhausting their increasingly non-existence fighting age population and our western budgets.
We the western world as a whole are having trouble even producing enough weapons at the rate they are using them. Afghanistan by contrast employing an insurgency tactic only required a relatively small number of fighters with small number of primitive weapons to setup ambushes in their countless mountain passes.
We have other means of checking countries these days, no? Embarrassment is powerful. Wounded pride hurts. No deaths required. The Russian people are victims to this madman as much as the people of the countries he attacks.
Yes and no, yes Putin is a bad guy, but no, he doesn't need defeated. Haven't we learned anything from the past 60+ years that going in and overthrowing dictators we don't like only makes things worse? Putin is no exception, and the consequences would be far greater as Russia is a nuclear armed county, the last thing we need is a fractured country full of nuclear weapons. When are people going to wake up and realize, were wasting billions sending a generation of Ukrainian men off to be slaughtered in a war Ukraine can't win, and for what? So Ukraine can buy weapons from western defense contractors with loans that have conditions requiring Ukraine to sell off government assets including farmland if they are not paid back. We shouldn't be sending money or weapons to Ukraine or Israel, time we stop adding fuel to the fire and start working on peace.
We should certainly not allow dictators to invade countries. I think funding our own defense contractors to give Ukraine weapons and simultaneously devaluing the Ruble is working quite well.
I just never thought an entire political party would bend to a Russian dictator.
Take your rose colored glasses off, you'll se the Ukraine war for the disaster that it is. How many innocent Ukrainians have to die before you people realize the war was a mistake that Ukraine can't win and could have been avoided. Ukraine is losing the war while Russia is doing just fine, in fact their economy is doing slightly better now then when the war started. The war didn't happen in 2022, with Putin waking up one morning and deciding to invade Ukraine, the war started in 2014 when US/NATO carried out a coup d'eta to replace Ukraine's neutral government with a pro-western. There have been multiple chances to prevent/stop the war, and US/NATO rejected them, cause expanding NATO to Russia's boarder was and still is more important then peace. What happens when Ukraine runs out of men to fight? Are you going to go over and fight? Take a listen to Jeffrey Sachs, he sums up the war pretty accurately.
Didn’t know Sachs was a Putin lover. Would he say the same thing about the American Revolution? “Longer those colonies continue fighting the more devastation there will be.” No shit Sherlock.
Comparing Israel to Ukraine is dumb. We fund Israel because Israel is a genuine ally and a staging ground for the US to land troops of needed. Ukraine is not an ally not really. Also the US won't step in until something major happens. At which point Europe is already totally screwed.
True. Just don’t use American soldiers to stop him. We are not the world police. We can make peace with him and trade with him. F Germany and Nato though, lazy bastards whi don’t pay what they should to maintain a cutting edge military. Their numbers this year are likely BS.
Not everyone you disagree with or opposes the Ukraine war supports Putin. Here is a novel idea that's going to blow your mind, some people are against both Putin and the Ukraine proxy war.
@llorando fair enough but put forward arguments that don’t exasperate our involvement. We’re literally paying American companies to give them free weapons. Thats it.
Holy fuck, when I think you have gone as dumb as you can, you dig deeper. I remember a time when democrats didn't want continual war to enrich defense contractors.
So the only "argument" you accept is one that doesn't cut funding from Ukraine. Holy shit.
The weapons are not free. Ukraine is buying the weapons with loans they can't pay back, which is exactly what US/NATO want. These loans were giving Ukraine have conditions that they must put up Ukrainian assets including farmland up for sale. Western, multinational corporations are already buying up Ukrainian assets, and will be buying even more when they default on the loans. We should not be sending Ukrainians off to slaughter in a preventable war they can't win protecting land that's being taken by western multinational corporations. We should not be funding defense contractors, it only incentivizes more war. If you manufacture raincoats, you can't sell them if there is no rain, if you manufacture weapons, you can't sell them if there is no war.
@gorydetails There are still anti-war democrats left, we just left the party to become independent, cause A: were tired of how war hungry Democratic politicians have become, and B: were tired of being attacked and smeared for being anti-war. These people accusing others of being Putin supporters for not supporting the Ukraine war, are no different then the people who accused others of being Saddam supporters for not supporting the Iraq, which turned out to be a big failure and a waste. Were on track to do to Ukraine what we did to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Republicans cajoled and manipulated the War Powers Act. But yes our Congress voted for invasion of mid East by Bush W. Obama voted against. Hillary voted for.
"fighting fascism". Were doing the exact opposite in Ukraine, were supporting and funding a corrupt, neo Nazi backed government who seized control of media outlets and shutdown opposing political opponents/parties. FYI it's not the US's job to police the world, and take out political leaders and government's we don't like, it only makes things worse for the people of those countries. Look a Libya, it's filled with open slave markets cause of our failed foreign policy of over throwing leaders we don't like. It's OK to not like or disagree with a countries government or leader, but it's not our responsibility to go in and carry out a regime change.
@llorando funny that Zelenskyy is a Jew who you think would be ok with neo Nazis. Too much dumb attention has been given to that 100 man brigade in Zelenskyy’s volunteer army.
Again this Putin’s arguments regurgitated by stupid commentators. there's more white supremacists in the US military than the Azov battalion. Certainly doesn’t give Putin the right to invade.
See this is was Dem's do, they label everything they disagree with a Putin and Russia. Nazism isn't limited to hating jews, it includes other other races. Ukrainian Nazi's current goal is to cleans Ukraine of non Ukrainian ethnic groups including Russians. It didn't give Russia the right to invade, just like expanding NATO to Ukraine didn't give the US and NATO the right to block peace negotiations that would have prevent the proxy war. Was the BBC spewing Putin arguments when they covered the Nazi threat in Ukraine?
@OddBeMe I honestly don’t think you would. Liberal guys don’t join the Army/military, especially Combat Arms units. And big talk means nothing just like the people that said they would move to Canada if Trump won in 2016. And now conservative aren’t joining the newly woke military which is why there are force reductions due to inability to recruit.
When the Democrat power brokers are making regular runs to Ukraine to save their bag money, that's a real indicator.
With the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS sent to the Ukraine the soldiers should not be wanting for anything, and yet we hear they are short of everything. WTF does this tell you?
Look at the parade of democrat clowns to Ukraine. Look at the hundreds of billions sent to Ukraine. Look at the fact they are still having shortages and having to pay for their own gear.
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