What is your opinion of a Russian nuclear submarine and other Russian naval ships visiting visiting Cuba next week?

[Kelley1]

Russian Nuclear Submarine

Cuba’s announcement comes days after US President Joe Biden gave Ukraine permission to carry out limited strikes inside Russian territory with American munitions. https://apnews.com/article/cuba-russia-warships-caribbean-ukraine-97905c0a6072e39e2869a18e28b0aeef

[DJB72]

Coma-Joe is single-handed reversing the security JFK outstared the USSR to win in the 1960s. I didn't realise he had designs on being the President who was in office for the start of the Third World War.

The NATO concept of if one country is hit then all signatories have to respond only works if that country isn't the aggressor. If Ukraine uses American weapons to strike Russia itself instead of just defending their own borders then Russia could decide to take out the manufacturer and suppliers. I doubt the rest of NATO is going to stand with Joe under those circumstances.

No Western "leader" in my lifetime has been so out of touch with the citizens of the nations that make up NATO as Joe is - although I admit Sunak is close.

Hopefully by the end of the year both will be gone, although I have no clue what the plan for the future will be. Neither has a credible alternative for election that stands a high probability of victory. RFK Jr would be the best option both domestically and internationally for the USA, but there's literally no party I'd vote for in England right now.

If Putin wants to send his navy to visit Russian allies in Cuba that's not Biden's decision any more than Joe sinking billions of dollars into trying to destroy the Russian military by proxy in Ukraine is Vlad's...

Oh, wait... Vlad might think America providing weapons to attack Russia is antagonistic...

[impalabill77]

We should keep a watch on them. Maybe keep some of our naval fleet in international waters.

[Syntosi]

I literally do not care. Everyone can see that Russia is a sinking ship so outside of certain nations wanting to profit off of Russias downfall *cough* China *cough* Iran *cough*. No one is actually seriously going to diplomatically align with Russia.

That is just a political stunt, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It is something that countries and world leaders do to simply gain some cheap headlines and maybe some applauds if they are cheeky enough. Headlines which are not worth the paper they are printed on I might add. Best just ignore it and pretend it never happened, life is easier that way.

[Siri137]

LOL, the only nation that is a "sinking ship" right now is the United States. :D

[Syntosi]

@Siri137 True, USA is also a sinking ship. There can be more than one sinking ship at the same time.

[DrPepper12]

Russia is a gas station cosplaying an empire.

[Siri137]

@DrPepper12 Is that you Lindsay Graham? I didn't know you were on GAG.
For some weird, inexplicable reason, people in the West, particularly the USA, seem to know precisely zilch about Russia, its natural resources, wealth, and standard of living. I see you're one of those ignorant people.

[Syntosi]

@Siri137 Oh, I actually know quite a lot about Russia, its resources and its standard of living. Like for example, I know of its secret mining towns that pollutes so badly the rivers around it run red with heavy metals and everything around it is just a dead polluted march land. I know that Russia does not even have a proper road network because its too expensive to build and maintain and it has to rely on railroads to actually connect the country properly. I know that Russia relies on outside contractors from the west to design and build its oil and gas extraction and refineries which is now impossible. I know that Russia can't buy spare parts for its civilian aircrafts because they are things like Boeing which means they are forced to cannibalize more and more of the fleet to keep the rest flying and they are doing it WAAAY past what the parts are actually rated for which has resulted in more accidents and will reach a point where air travel in Russia is virtually impossible on any real scale. I know of how Russia only ever focuses wealth around Moscow and most of the rest of the country is a 3rd world hellhole where people seek drugs and alcohol to endure their sorry existence. Assuming that I do not pay attention is a mistake.

[Siri137]

I wasn't talking to you, but to Dr. Pepper, the one who made the comment that I responded to.

[Syntosi]

@Siri137 I know, but I am saying that he is not entirely wrong. You have to realize that even though Russia has a lot of resources, that is not as useful as you think it is. Extracting resources is generally speaking a job that contributes little value added to the economy which is why many 3rd world countries are those exact types. The most value is generated when you take that resource and turn it into a product like cars or computers or whatever. If you wanted to brag about Russia you should have talked about its manufacturing base, not its resources. Like Dr. Pepper said, Russia is a lot like a gas station, as a place where people go and extract resources from to benefit themselves.

[Siri137]

"I know that Russia does not even have a proper road network because its too expensive to build and maintain and it has to rely on railroads to actually connect the country properly."
(sigh)
Yes, it's expensive because Russia is such a big, f**king country you clown! THE largest in the world by far!
You see, this is a perfect example of what I mean. You're one of those Yanks who believes that, for example, measures of prosperity can be determined via the consideration of "miles of road networks", and thinking that an extensive and efficient rail network was only ever established in Russia because people over there are too poor to afford cars and trucks or some other such garbage. The way you think about issues like this has been coloured, without you even realising it, by your cultural conditioning, believing that the way "Americans" do things is the only way to do things, because... reasons.

[Syntosi]

@Siri137 Oh please, yes Russia is big but that is neither an excuse nor relevant since the reason Russia does not have a proper road infrastructure is not because its "too big" but because its too poor. Its not even close. Russia has the road infrastructure of a 3rd world country, because that is exactly what it is aside from a small part around its capital where the standard of living is enhanced at the expense of the rest of the country.

And no, I pointed out the road infrastructure because that is required to enhance local productivity. Rail also has its part to play, and Russian rail is pretty decent all things considered, but you can't replace road networks with rail and satisfy the needs of local businesses. The disparity between the rail network and road network tells you that there is A LOT of potential productivity that Russia could gain by properly building out its infrastructure but that it can't do.

And yes, I know its because they are too poor. While I am making the simple argument of comparing rail and road infrastructure that is for easing this conversation. Rejecting roads and relying on rail is outright stated by the Russian government and something I have studied about on my own time but would bog down this conversation too much to be worth talking about, hence the simplification of my arguments.

So Russia indeed does not have an adequate road infrastructure and this was an intentional choice they had to make because they simply could not afford it and instead compromised by trying to compensate with rail. This is a sign of weakness and also a sign of Russia wasting its potential. Roads would make Russia much more wealthy than it is today and would pay for itself in the long run. Russia is just too poor to put up the initial investment.

[DrPepper12]

@Siri137 what would you like to know? Let's have that discussion

[Siri137]

"Oh please, yes Russia is big but that is neither an excuse nor relevant since the reason Russia does not have a proper road infrastructure is not because its "too big" but because its too poor. Its not even close. Russia has the road infrastructure of a 3rd world country... blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit" - Syntosi
Did you know that Russia ALSO has THE largest network of canals and river transportation in the entire world, by far? They don't need to transport goods via road, there's no necessity for it. Think of the Mississippi river network times ten.

[Syntosi]

@Siri137 The reason Mississippi is not being utilized for river transportation even though its objectively the most suitable location for it in the world is purely political. More specifically, a law called the Jones act which forces boats to be built, crewed and owned by Americans only to be allowed to transport between American ports. But I digress, Russia needs roads to become as productive as western nations. This is not debatable but a simple fact.

[Siri137]

Oh right. "Political". But if it's Russia, it's because they're "poor" and "backward". I've had enough of your racist, anti-Russian bigotry.
Good bye!

[Syntosi]

@Siri137 ... Yes... Its political because there is literally a legal obstacle that prevents it from happening and dropped cargo transportation by waterways (like the Mississippi) to like 3-2% in 10 years of the signing of the law. USA already HAD that infrastructure built up and was profiting from it, there was even massive industrial centers built which now no longer exist because some politicians signed a law.

Russia never had a great road network. They can't get one even if they wanted one. These two things are not the same. All USA needs is to repeal the Jones act to restart their river transportation and regain their industry there. It is a political obstacle, not a limitation in resources or competence.

Sorry if reality has an anti-Russian bias but that tends to happen when you elect incompetent leaders for most of recorded history.

[Jersey2]

I think it is hilarious as they are afraid to sail in the Black Sea as the Ukrainians keep sinking their ships AND the Baltic Sea is basically a Nato lake AND the Arctic Ocean is now clogged with Nato Allies.

Their ships have no where to go so why not tty and score some PR points with their people. It’s not 1962 anymore.

[Jersey2]

Try*

[DrPepper12]

Good analysis!

[DrPepper12]

Unremarkable and no connection. US Cuba policy is just stupid at this point. It always was.

[Siri137]

It's entirely routine, and has been happening ever since nations had navies. Hardly a newsworthy event.

[Surely]

Joey doesn’t have the gonads to stand as JFK did during the Cuban missile crisis! No telling what is on Putin’s mind.

[Alex-Snow]

We have ships in the Baltic sea and the Black sea so they are international waters and they are free to navigate on them I guess

[northerngal]

Just games. The Russian navy is not what it used to be.

[Nice222]

It’s a great chance to gather intelligence on them.

[AngryCarl]

Russia still has nuclear submarines? You wouldn't get me in one of them metal coffins.

[nawtee_me]

It wouldn’t take much to sink Cuba into the ocean.

[normalice]

They are trying to flex their atrophied muscles.

[ChicoFromThe305]

That poor little island won't stand a chance lol

[Pohjolan]

A nothing burger.

[In_Trance]

Hopefully they go to an all-inclusive