Did you know that Conservatives occasionally do something good?

[msc545]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/25/republicans-no-fault-divorce?ref=theissue.io

Updates

+1 y

Ending no-fault divorce might positively impact the marriage fraud and opportunistic divorce rates...

[purplepoppy]

Is there really that much fraud or is it just social engineering to keep people in marriage to fit political ideology?

Besides why not just create a fault? Have an affair or something.

As for dustybikers broken clock analogy

[msc545]

You cannot keep people in a marriage. In a normal divorce, you simply need a reason for it - any plausible reason will do

[msc545]

It is actually this:

"A stopped clock is right twice a day"

[goaded]

That one isn't. Not ever.

[msc545]

True

[goaded]

stopped/broken got it, brain fart. Good morning!

[goaded]

"why not just create a fault?" I think that would lead to the person at fault not getting money from the other.

[msc545]

Not really

[dustybiker2]

A broken watch is correct twice a day.

[msc545]

There is that. Nice usage!

[dustybiker2]

Cheers 🍻

[goaded]

The clock in my kitchen, which has been on the wall for decades, fell off and broke within an hour of this question being asked.

[msc545]

@goaded Sorry. I always use heavy-duty picture hooks...

[goaded]

It was basically there to hide the wires sticking out of the wall where we thought we'd want a light, but decided against it. I just hung it off the earth wire and insulated the others.

[dustybiker2]

Awe. What are your plans now?

I put a new solar safety light on my bike (parked outside last night) came back into the garage and our camping SOS flashlight feature had turned on all by itself. Freaked me out.

Is there some solar flare or ripple in time we are being warned about?

[goaded]

Repair it or replace it, the wall looks wrong without it there, it's where I always glance to see what the time is while cooking.

[dustybiker2]

I hope it is repairable then.

[normalice]

From what I can tell ending no fault divorce will just make someone who wants to leave have to stay unless they can come up with a reason but "I don't like you anymore" isn't allowed to be a reason. Seems fucked up.

[msc545]

You cannot keep people in a marriage. In a normal divorce, you simply need a reason for it - any plausible reason will do.

[normalice]

Why isn't "I don't like you" a plausible reason?

[msc545]

I don't know if it is or isn't. I'm not a Judge.

[normalice]

I'm trying to illustrate if that's allowed as a reason - if feelings can be found to be at fault - that's the same as "there is no one at fault," which makes it a no fault divorce with extra steps.

[msc545]

You are not wrong but I have idea what a good or bad reason actually is.

[normalice]

Then for those deemed "bad" reasons, therefore denying the divorce, we're just making someone who wants to leave have to stay.

[msc545]

Nobody has to physically stay ever.

[normalice]

They can't physically get in a relationship with someone else. So they are physically confined due to not having a divorce.

[msc545]

Sure they can. What is to stop them? The only thing they cannot do legally is get married again before they get divorced from the first marriage.

[normalice]

If they get physically involved with someone else then it becomes a "fault" divorce except they are at fault.

[msc545]

Only if the other spouse finds out, and it only matters if they (cheating spouse) really want the divorce.

[normalice]

The point is the reason that's called a "fault" is because those are the list of things you're not supposed to be doing in a marriage. If they want to leave for none of those reasons you are requiring that they pick one and do it in order to leave the marriage. That just seems silly. If we're going that far, just allow no fault divorces. What are we really preserving otherwise?

[msc545]

There is no actual list. Feel free to come up with a very innovative and unique reason.

[normalice]

That's just not the way laws work. They have to be spelled out it some way. You can't just say "if it feels like a good reason, okay, but if I don't like it you have to stay together even though you don't want to be." Laws don't work very well that way.

[msc545]

So get the list if one exists. This seems like a silly thing to be arguing over. You're taking it very literally and it should not be taken that way.

[normalice]

Taking it literally is how the whole legal process works. What are you trying to show with this list, anyway? That there isn't one and it's all ambiguous? Because that's false or we wouldn't need a no fault divorce in the first place - that's what that means: a divorce for none of the reasons on the list. It's no one's fault. Thats all a no fault divorce is. To suggest there isn't a list is to suggest there isn't no fault divorce, but your whole question is whether we should be eliminating it. How can we discuss emilinating something that doesn't exist?

[msc545]

I think the adequacy or lack or adequacy is up to the trial Judge.

[normalice]

Alright, but if the judge finds their reasoning inadequate then we are telling them they must stay together even though they don't want to.

[msc545]

No. We are telling them they have an insufficient reason for a divorce. They then find a better reason. This whole thing is mainly about custody and visitation and property, not the actual divorce. In a no-fault divorce, people's behavior does not matter relative to custody and visitation and property; in a fault-type divorce, it does. Men do better in fault divorces because women are not automatically award the majority custody and visitation and property as they are in no-fault divorces.

This is why man men would like to eliminate no-fault divorce.

[msc545]

NO. Here, this may help:

Fault and no-fault divorce refer to different legal grounds for obtaining a divorce:

Fault Divorce:

In a fault-based divorce, one spouse alleges that the other spouse is responsible for the breakdown of the marriage.
Common grounds for fault divorce include adultery, abandonment, cruelty, substance abuse, or imprisonment.
To obtain a divorce on fault grounds, the accusing spouse typically needs to provide evidence supporting their claims in court.
Fault divorces can be contentious and may involve a longer legal process due to the need to prove fault.

No-Fault Divorce:

In a no-fault divorce, neither spouse is blamed for the end of the marriage.
This type of divorce is based on irreconcilable differences, irretrievable breakdown of the marriage, or incompatibility.
No-fault divorce laws vary by jurisdiction but generally allow couples to dissolve their marriage without proving that one spouse caused the marriage to fail.
No-fault divorces are often quicker and less contentious since they do not require one spouse to accuse the other of wrongdoing.
Key Differences:

Legal Basis: Fault divorce requires proof of misconduct by one spouse, while no-fault divorce does not.
Process: Fault divorces may involve a more complex legal process and potentially longer proceedings, whereas no-fault divorces are generally simpler and quicker.
Impact on Settlements: In some jurisdictions, fault may affect property division, alimony, or custody decisions, whereas no-fault divorces focus more on equitable distribution and child welfare.

Overall, the distinction between fault and no-fault divorce lies in whether the divorce is based on allegations of wrongdoing or simply the irretrievable breakdown of the marriage.

[normalice]

So, they want to break up but we won't let them. Why suggest that's not what you want when it is?

As for visitation and property, what you just said is false. No fault divorces divide visitation equally by default. And property is left for the couple to sort out on their own, from what i recall - though it varies by state. It wasn't always this way so you'll still see stats that suggest it isn't - since the automatic disproportionate favoring of women was effectively phased out around 10 years ago, a lot of the children from before then are not yet adults. But by 2034 all the stats should even out. So, this is not a valid reason to eliminate no fault divorce. And even if it is in some states, it's easier to change that state law instead of nationally forcing all couples to stay together when they don't want to.

[normalice]

Also, that's good info you posted but you do see the list there, right?

[msc545]

In California, custody and visitation are 50 - 50 by default. That can be modified by the court but often is not.

[msc545]

That list shows examples. It is not exhaustive.

[slatyb]

The end of no-fault divorce is another misguided Conservative attempt to instill the church into the government. It's a disaster. Go read "The Price of Salt"

[msc545]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the church. I have no idea where you got that idea. It's wrong.

[slatyb]

It goes back to the idea that people are married before God. They aren't, and there's no point in keeping people in marriages they want to leave. Are you going to chain them to each other? Forbid them from separating?

[msc545]

No fault does not keep people in marriages they want to leave. It punishes marital misbehavior.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Yes, I believe so...

[Anonymous]

lol people think getting rid of no-fault divorce is getting rid of actual divorce

[exitseven]

Conservatives are not the answer to all your problems but liberals are definitely the cause of them.

[dustybiker2]

Way to blow a compliment

[Anonymous]

Well, occasionally the EVIL side ALSO do something good... like Biden wanting to stop military arms going to Ukraine for the purpose of attacking Russia. Neither side will always be totally right or totally wrong

[MrFrenchFry]

Depends what you mean by conservative. If you mean the gop well they are normal right more often then not. Freed the slaves

[msc545]

No, they did not free the slaves. They are the people that would like to legalize slavery right now and would do so if they could.

[MrFrenchFry]

Nope the Republicans freed the slaves. Also fought for civil rights.

[msc545]

You are only saying that to take advantage of the confusion about party names - won't work.

[Pterodon]

We always do good for American citizens

[msc545]

Not always but in this case - yes!

[Agape93]

Lmao no you guys don't. Got about a 50/50 record.

[Agape93]

But yea this is a good one

[Agape93]

I wasn't talking about non Americans lol

[Agape93]

Yeap