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Should native Africans who have never been ensalved and immigrated to the West, Africans who were enslaved by other countries, etc be payed after going to a certain countries. Should other races (latinos native americans Asians and jews eastern europeans etc) be given reparations.
No. I am against giving reparations for what currently-dead people did centuries or thousands years ago, where there was different worldview and mentality. Slavery, feudalism, (religious) wars, tortures, duels ware very common and normal in many parts of the world at specific time frames. How do you account which people should get how much for slavery in ancient Rome or Egypt? Even values were different then. Human labour was cheep, materials expensive. How much they should get? What about people with mixed hermitages? Or whole civilisations that were destroyed? How do you account that for people in ex. Rome that had no slaves?
What about other things? Should you return to monarchies and reject human rights, because they were made by illegal french revolutionists?
Should USA belong to England and other colonists. Or should all land and property should be given to native Americans and all white/black/other race people/companies/government be removed?
Who should pay for Rome. There are no emperors now? Who will pay for ancient Egypt? Where are the pharaohs?
Will Genghis Khan or Vikings pay for their crimes, rapes and pillage of villages? Who will make world powers like China, Russia pay?
How do you ensure document completeness? In many parts of the world people were illiterate.
It is not feasible. It will only create divisions, chaos and could be potentially used to abuse others.
m No it’s a totally pointless exercise and would be so open to abuse. Also a lot of countries avoid conversations around it (such as Brazil).
Also why the western world, the Middle East also was very active in the same trade.
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Britains-Role-Ending-Slavery-Worldwide/
I don’t know and would not even guess on what the number of great great etc grand children those slaves have, where they are etc. It is almost a global situation and would be hard to work out how to pay out anything. A 1 trillion fund mind give everyone $5’s.
Of course not unless by taking the reparations they must move back to Africa. Blacks and their descendants have greatly benefited by living in the USA. While there are cases of slaves being horribly mistreated, generally they were treated as well a poor whites attempting to eek out a living working in mine and other horrible conditions.
You fucking kidding me? You really think ‘blacks and their descendants ‘ benefited by living in the USA?
You are seriously ignorant.
@Chelsdope0 Well even the KKK could make Blacks run back to Africa, So of course they and their Descendants benefited and continue to benefit from living in the USA. I find POC ignorance astonishing.
You know what. Whatever you say. I don’t have time to argue with two ignorant people who are in fact racist.
America is a false country.
@Chelsdope0 You know it's true so playing the race card was your only move left here.
@Chelsdope0 I understand if she means black people benefitted from advanced technical things. there's a reason haitians south sudanese people etc are begging even to live in an American slum, some of those countries are brutal.
Africa probably would've caught on eventually in many areas with modern advancements, but idt to the degree of Europe or east asia.
No. I'm not paying a dime to people who have never been affected by slavery, especially when me and my family weren't even in the country to participate in it.
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In France government import illegal foreign worker for doing low paying job because our "Boss'' government refuse to pay. They import them mostly from Africa (and apparently a bit of South Asia too).
As for reparation European countries actually give a lot of money to African countries, the problem is the African government who keep it all to themselves and give nothing to the population. My grandparents went to multiple African countries between their 20s and 60s and my grandfather also was drafted to African countries as a military guy to protect president (They went to Mauritania, Senegal, Kenya, etc...) and my grandparents always said the government and boss their were extremely weathly / fat while their population lived in extreme poverty. So technically European countries does give reparation to African countries (even if officially it's called money to help the sovergneity of African countries), we also send doctor, medicament, clothes, food, etc... all of this for free to help them. The biggest trouble is that the money we give them to help their corrupt government prefer to keep it all t themselves and give nothing to the population.
There's also association to help African children go to school (pay their school, uniform, book, etc...). European countries do plenty to help but if the government / people there don't play by the rules and keep everything for themselves it make it hard to actually help the population.
After do i believe we should hep them or not I would say yes because the more their countries develop the better, I don't see how helping others countries get developed is a bad things.
While there are moral arguments for reparations, I believe it from a purely economic growth point of view. Minority communities in USA is currently not performing as well as the majority and much of that can be chalked up to generational wealth. Where successful families becomes even more successful in the next generation etc..
As such I think giving them a boost to make them more productive would be a good investment for the government and result in an economic boom which is far more valuable than the small amount of money initially handed out.
You live in a fantasy world. Generation wealth is limited to the one in 100,000 families, such as the Rockefellers'. Only 8% live in families with over $1 million in wealth. The 1% of very wealthy people during the time of slavery would leave their wealth to their children and in turn to their children. Then to their so on. Any amounts remaining after several generations, that was not spent, would be divided by many dozens of people until almost nothing is left. Almost all millionaires earned their wealth by becoming doctors, lawyers, dentist, business people, etc. and saved over a 30 to 40 year working career.
The government has been giving blacks money, referred to as welfare, for generations and never has that resulted in economic boom. Give money to blacks and they will blow it because that is what blacks do. For example. Single black mom given $10,800 in taxpayer-funded program for poor families spent most of it on a 5 day luxury Miami trip: ‘I wanted to blow it’ she said.
www.msn.com/.../ar-BB1iLGPN
@Kelley1 I am not talking about generational wealth that sets you up for being a millionaire. I am talking about things like growing up in a nice home, eating 3 meals a day to not have your growth stunted, having parents that has time for their kids instead of working 24/7 etc.. Things that compiles over generations to make sure the next one has a better start and gives their kids the best possible chance to succeed in life.
Also most millionaires got their wealth through the hard work of others or pure luck. Very few actually worked for it themselves because that is actually difficult.
For most of the twentieth century, Asians were treated worse than blacks and their living conditions were no better. Ultimately it a matter of intelligence. As proven by hundreds of millions of tests and exams, most Asians and Whites are considerably more intelligent than most blacks with an average 15 point IQ difference.
@Kelley1 Ask any Asian where they came from and they will say that they are from Thailand or Japan or wherever. Ask a black American where they came from and best you will probably get is "Africa". Do not sit here and claim that their situations are even remotely similar when USA basically annihilated their history.
As for your blatant racism and inability to understand what IQ is. No. Just No. That is not how any of that works.
You can lie to yourself and perhaps you even believe that garbage. However, I don't because 100% of the facts prove blacks had significantly lower IQs. The "Bell Curve" also established that blacks have lower cognitive abilities. Furthermore, before 1975, immigrants from Vietnam to the United States were mainly boat people fleeing poverty and persecution from Vietnam. On arrival to the United States, the immigrants settled in the poor neighborhoods in urban areas. Even though they had to learn a new language and the Vietnamese immigrants in the United States faced many challenges, their economic status have improved dramatically, especially between the late 1980s and the early 2000. In 1989 for instance, the Vietnamese Americans who lived below the poverty line formed 34 percent of the entire Vietnamese American population while in 1999 the number had reduced by more than half to 16 percent (Bankston 213). The Vietamese Americans achieved in one generation what black, without the difficulty of a new language and poorer living condition, have failed to achieve in a half dozen generations. That refutes everything you said about living conditions and is more proof that lower intelligence equals lower economic achievement.
@Kelley1 *claps* Congratulations on not understanding anything I said.
Oh well. Let me tell you something. Races does not exist, as in they objectively can't be proven scientifically. No scientist can claim otherwise without literally being laughed out the room.
Furthermore! IQ is not an objective measurement of intelligence and has been proven to be flawed in several areas.
Literally your whole worldview appears to be built upon your fundamental lack of understanding of how the world actually works.
@Syntosi well let's look at things this way. Blacks fought for the right to live with other races because their spaces are slums and shit holes. Investing in black communities like opening a grocery store is always a poor business decision due to the robberies and shoplifting. If they were such a great race then they would want to live with white people. They hate us but they need us whites to take care of them were as white lives are better when there are no black people around.
@Gospeedracer That is a social division. It is made and perpetuated by us, not by biology or anything objective. You can for example look at how Jews were treated throughout history. Are they their own race? Why are they so often marginalized or attacked? Why did Nazi Germany treat them like that?
If people believe that race is an actual thing, and behaves accordingly, then you can perpetuate a system which acts as if its a real thing without there having to be a real racial distinction. That would give you the class divides and such that you see today without there needing to be a fundamental biological reason for it all.
@Syntosi I was just pointing out these problems that other groups have. You want to know why they are persecuted and a lot of it boils down to how the treat other groups. It could be in there dna or a race trait, But the why doesn't matter to me, But realizing these problems exist and these aren't our problems do. But the Jews like the Muslims are indoctrinated into beliefs from a young age. They are told they have a right to mistreat other groups which is also written in their religious texts.
@Gospeedracer What I am pointing out is that its literally impossible for it to be in their DNA or "race trait" because such things does not exist. As a result they must be social or cultural problems which can be addressed fairly easily by the government if they cared enough.
@Gospeedracer Thanks to the Human Genome Project we have fully mapped out the human DNA and we know pretty much all that it does, if perhaps not in minute details but certainly in broad strokes. We have a good understanding what DNA does and does not do.
But that is mostly irrelevant. Why? Because the problem here is not that DNA can or can't do something but rather that "races" and actual DNA does not match at all. Since what we consider "races" does not share the same DNA then its impossible for it to be a racial trait grounded in DNA.
@Syntosi I've heard people on the left make such statements before, The left have destroyed the sciences due to the fact they rely on fear, intimidation and censorship to silence people with opposing views rather seeing if their ideas can hold up to scrutiny. Asian looking parents have Asian looking kids. African looking parents have African looking kids. white looking parents have white looking kids if DNA isn't responsible for that then I don't know what is.
@Gospeedracer @Syntosi Not only that, but to claim races don't exist is claiming the evolution doesn't exist.
@Gospeedracer I have had this conversation so many times on this website. Why can't people just accept that they are wrong for once?
No. Asians having "Asian" kids is not a race thing. Its like saying "People with blond hair have blond haired children". Or are you perhaps suggesting that blond haired people are their own race? The fact is that there is a variety of human traits spread across the world and you do indeed inherit them through evolution, but they are not confined within convenient racial groupings. That is the key sticking points.
You can't actually draw a line between the difference between a White person and an Asian. On the extreme you can make an argument but the closer you get to the middle the more blurred the difference gets without an actual defined distinction. Furthermore, the difference in genetic traits is larger within a "racial group" than between two different "racial groups". Meaning you are more closely related to at least someone of a different race than you are to everyone within your own race.
There are countless ways to demonstrate the fact that races does not exist, I have put forward a few here but there are many more (especially when you get down to the technical level). Point is that no credible scientist today believes in human races and every piece of evidence we have today refutes it.
@Gospeedracer Yes. However there is a misunderstanding. Things can exist in practice without actually being true. Lets take nations for example. In many ways they are analogous to races. Usually most of the people who lives in a nation are alike both genetically and culturally. We also act like being born as an American or Canadian or whatever else has any real meaning. As if the difference of a few feet would either make you a citizen of one country or another and that this is somehow a real change for that person.
Nations are something that humans made up. It is only as real as we make it out to be. If we treat people from one country different from others then there will be a noticeable disparity. That does not mean that someone is different because they happened to be born in a particular country.
As such, race does not actually exist but in practice we have forced it into being a thing on a cultural and social level. Of course this does not make them any similar or dissimilar genetically speaking but importantly for our conversation they can share a similar living situation.
@Gospeedracer So lets say that I had a billion dollars and I wanted to invest that money into growing the American economy. However, I obviously do not know that many people on a personal basis to know who would benefit the most from my investment and giving a billion dollars to some massive corporation is just a complete waste and will not result in much. I rather invest in people who have the easiest to grow, because they are the furthest behind.
Pushing the boundary is difficult, catching up is much easier. Every dollar I invest into people in need will have a much larger effect on the economy than a dollar I invest in literally anyone else on average. So what I need is a clever way to sort out the people with the most potential for catching up. A good way is to find the people who has had the worst chance for success growing up.
Because people believe in races, like you, we just happen to have this convenient self-organization of people with immense potential to catch up with the rest of society. That is why I think reparations is a good idea, because it uses the same means to target people as oppression used to do and therefore targets the people furthest behind. It is extremely convenient in this regard.
@Syntosi How are you going to identify this oppressed group? they must have an some sort of identifying features otherwise who are we going to pay. The people who believe they should be paid think they are of the African race, descendants of people from that area. I have no intergenerational wealth and my DNA says that I'm 100% western european would I be entitled to reparations as well?
@Gospeedracer Unironically, rely on the racists. They already created means of targeting these people. In fact, I would call them experts in singling out otherwise random folk. Just steal their methods and you can do some good with it for once as well as escape having to do any actual work on your end. Win-win.
@Gospeedracer Not even sure what you mean. "earn these reparation funds how do they win?".
The situation is fairly clear. The government has a steady influx of money thanks to things like taxes and they need to find the best place to invest it. I believe one of those places are previously marginalized people who has the most potential for growth. This is as opposed to investing the money into things like green energy or subsidizing farmers etc.. This is common stuff for any government, except it would go towards an unusual group of people this time.
@Syntosi Tax payer funded reparations for professional victims is a bad investment not to mention discrimination against the hardest working and most productive members of society. You won't answer my question because you know the reparations are not meant for people of my skin color. White people are far better off by themselves when they aren't expected to look after everyone else. We shouldn't have to look after a much more dependant, ungrateful, self serving and tribalistic group of people but people like you believe people who hate us are entitled to more help then we would give our own children.
@Gospeedracer I disagree. I think its a good investment and historically when giving money to marginalized people it has always given a good return. As such its not without historical precedent.
It is also obvious that its the hardworking people that subsidizes the rest. After all they are the ones who produce the most and provides the most value. Of course, corporations usually are the ones who siphons up all the value but that is besides the point. The whole point of a society is cooperation and part of that is having those who can help those who can't.
And its not like I dont want to answer your question, its that I honestly dont know what you are trying to ask outside of insincere "gotcha" questions that has no actual meaning.
Where is my reparations? Nearly all of us have ancestors who were enslaved in one way or anther at one point. Just like nearly every land on earth has changed hands by force not merely once but many times.
The idea that we can repay any past offense which was not in violation of any law then existing is a absurdly long and untraceable rabbit hole and as such can never deliver equal justice.
Laws exist to make future peace & justice but they can never do so in the past (known as ex-post facto). This basic fact has been known for centuries was true and any attempt to do so only create even greater evil. That is why ex-post facto laws are explicitly banned by Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 for the Federal Government and Article 1 Section 10 for the states.
No. I don't need reparations. I was not born a slave and I was never a slave. now regarding my ancestors in Africa that's a whole nother' story. I want reparations from them African tribes.
Second best thing to do is to go and invade the entire continent of Africa, for reparations, because Murica... fuck yea... and kill some terrorists in the process..
Given the genuine problems faced by entire societies, any discussion of reparations paid to descendants of former slaves is a distraction and a waste of time because we should be discussing public policy that benefits all who need it.
No, Taxpayers should get tax amnesty for a year in reparations for dealing with the Biden Administration
A year? how about 4?
I do. Because reparations were given to the slave holders for their lost slaves. I don't really know what reparations looks like, but I would support reparations in some form.
Those people have suffered enough.
Take some federal land and do the same things the alaskan native do. It's not perfect but better then nothing.
The reparations have already been paid by the US soldiers who died to preserve the union and through trillions in welfare.
It will never work, it's just a way to trick blacks into voting for you.
Are those responsible for black slavery still alive?
Nope, but it would be nice if white supremacists stopped being racist and thinking they're better than everybody else.
If they can show me documentation proving that they were at some point enslaved by my people, I will give them their reparations
Absolutely not. There is an endless list of whatabouts.
Im a 🔥🔥🔥 liberal. I mean pretty leftist and my answet is ABSO-FUCKIN-LUTELY NOT! GTFO with that shit. Not happening.
Hell no. Firstly it was Africans selling thier own people into slavery, Secondly most Europeans didn't own slaves so why are they paying.
white liberals should pay the reparations starting with the feminists who are so keen they have white privilege
It's just an attempt to take advantage of white guilt. another form of thieving and stand over thuggery.
I believe anyone who was enslaved where it was legal, should be compensated by the government that allowed it.
No because to carry that out is to carry out collective punishment and the Geneva Convention has some choice words to say about that.
Yes. That is I think every still living slave should be paid reparations.
Reparations we're already paid in the form of Union soldiers dying in the civil war.
What? No.
@Chelsdope0 Yes. If it wasn't for union soldiers winning the civil war, South would have succeeded and slaves wouldn't have been freed.
We know that but that’s not reparations.
@Chelsdope0 All the dead Union soldiers disagree. Only way monetary reparations should be paid is if the person can prove they were slave and their slave owner pays the reparations.
no reparations are dumb
Why would one pay twice for the same service?
Nope
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