Do you think police officers need more personal liability?

[Juxtapose]

With a basic high school education you should know about the fourth amendment. This is ridiculous and police officers need to be accountable for their ignorance. Their ignorance is not an excuse for violating other people's rights.

Updates

1 y

Welp, got another person who is female dog made who decided to block me. Their opinion has been removed in turn.

Turnabout is fair play.

[DryGermanGuy]

This „qualified immunity“ construct is the weirdest thing from my pov. I have seen cases where utter negligence even lead to the death of people and it was more or less shrugged of as comes with the job. For example, PIT maneuvers at 100+ mph.
Police interactions in Germany are way more relaxed, I even had Americans comment on that.

[Juxtapose]

Yeah the police here can be cool but there are a lot of them that don't even know the basics of the Constitution and are way too aggressive.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Yep, because FAR TOO FEW instances of police misconduct are punished.

[BoopBoopBeep]

As someone with a badge, I strongly support the end of qualified immunity and the requirement to carry the equivalent of malpractice insurance. Right now, cop F's up, multimillion dollar settlement against him, taxpayers are the ones fronting that. Taxpayers aren't the one's that f'ed up. You could even raise the pay to essentially subsidize it and it would still be cheaper than paying out the lawsuit money. Win win.

[Juxtapose]

^^ this.

[DrPepper12]

End qualified immunity NOW!! Why should the biggest criminals get the presumption of being lawful? They should be required to buy personal liability insurance or blanket policies through their union. Why should taxpayers be victimized for their stupidity! I'm so tired of ignorant rights violating bigoted violent sociopathic egotistical sadistic rogue cops playing God with their monopoly on violence.

[Juxtapose]

^^ THIS.

[bluesparrow]

The cop in that video sounds like a DEI hire. The Secret Service has become a joke because of DEI hires. I’m sure you’ve heard that in Butler, the Secret Service had a few high tech drones, but none of the agents had a clue how to fly them. The would be assassin new had to fly his drone, but the Secret Service didn’t know how to fly their drones.

[Juxtapose]

At this point special forces members of the military should be in charge of watching over Trump.

[bluesparrow]

That would be extremely expensive, but it would be better than being dead.

[Juxtapose]

Frankly we could save a lot of money in other areas because the government constantly wastes money studying lesbian baboons or some shit.

[Juxtapose]

We can definitely afford to protect Trump.

[bluesparrow]

It would be fun to suggest it. The current system isn't working.

[exitseven]

If cops do not have qualified immunity they can n longer do their jobs. they will be so afraid of getting fired or sent to prison if they make a mistake in the field. Cops have to make quick decisions under very difficult conditions and todays current political climate it is easy to blame the cop for a bad outcome, especially if it is a minority that somehow gets injured or killed.

Cops will begin to second guess themselves or not do their jobs in fear of prison.

Hiring the right person is important but in todays political climate it is hard to recruit qualified people to be cops.

I literally know hundreds of cops and I found that 99% of them were good people who were interested in serving their communities.

The one percent gives a bad name to the rest of them.

most of the few bad cops that I had known never should have been hired in the first place but often were related to somebody in town government that had influence.

[DrPepper12]

They need to be reined in somehow someway

[Juxtapose]

My roommate himself has had cops bust into his home when he was a kid and he told him to go fuck himself when he asked for a warrant politely.

[Avicenna]

This is an interesting topic that requires a lot more discussion than I have time and space for in this post.

I think the best solution is to have respondeat superior (employer responsibility for employee actions) apply to police departments, officers, and the localities that employ them. That will provide an incentive for the localities to ensure better training, supervision, and reduction of excessive force and rights violations.

As far as I can tell in the exchange in the video, the officer did violate the gentleman’s Fourth Amendment rights, initiated an unnecessary and potentially dangerous confrontation, and illegally arrested him, a civil rights violation. That officer should not be employed as a law enforcement officer again and the locality that employs him should pay damages for the civil rights violation.

[BetaBucks]

I think we just shouldn't have police officers. They're the reason we have crime to begin with. With all the tech we have, and with the 2A, we would eliminate the criminals ourselves. Quickly too. And there aren't enough high quality people on the country to fill the ranks, so the problem with the growing numbers of low quality cops is just going to keep getting worse anyway.

[Juxtapose]

That's totally wrong since areas low on police are completely fucked over by criminals and the citizens do exactly jack shit about it.

You would have to raise people to become accustomed to dealing with criminals themselves.

[BetaBucks]

Because the citizens are afraid of going to prison for doing something about it. They'll mobilize the entire fucking department if some citizen decided to protect themselves of others. If there were no cops to arrest them for stopping crime, then criminals would be a fucking grey spot in a week.

And yeah you're 100% right about making people become accustomed to it. It would happen quickly though. It wouldn't take an entire generation in my opinion.

[BetaBucks]

The coward @worldscolide blocked me after he got called out as a liar. Here's my response so everyone can see him for the snob little bitch that he is:

"You're using NAACP as a source? Try using the case laws: Pierson v. Ray and Harlow v. Fitzgerald. If cops knowingly violate clearly established law, they don't get immunity. It's written in plain text in these SCOTUS rulings."

[bluesparrow]

Qualified immunity for cops is a must. I'm not defending the bad cops, but the good cops. Every time a cop responds to a call, he exposes himself or herself to a personal lawsuit. Anyone can sue anyone for any reason.

I remember hearing about this case: A guy buys a Schwinn bicycle. He chooses to ride it at night. He hits a tree, and is badly hurt. He sues Schwinn, because the bicycle's owner's manual never stated that a human's eyesight is impaired in the dark.

Do you think the bicycle won or lost?

[WindAtMyBack]

There is not enough in that video to know what's going on. But I'm pretty sure that cops don't need a warrant to go on someone's property. As near as I can tell, the cop did nothing wrong.

I don't know why the cop was there in the first place, or why he asked the man to step back. But from what's shown I just don't see the cop violating anyone's rights.

[Juxtapose]

If you are on private property and you are not in a hot pursuit or something, the owner can simply trespass you when you have to leave. If you can't do that, what's the point of private property?

[WindAtMyBack]

I'm not clear on all the details. But I think there is some kind of rule that allows ANYONE to enter your property, for example to come knock on your front door. I don't think they can walk around back or anything.

For example salesmen can come knock on your door and it is not trespassing. But when you tell them to leave, they have to leave. I think they also have to obey "No Trespassing" signs, but I'm not sure.

That video does not make it clear why the cops were there in the first place. It implies they thought there was some sort of altercation between the owner and someone else. I'm totally speculating, but I suspect the cops asked the guy to step back to separate the two people. The owner was obviously already hot.

As I said, there is not enough in that video to really know what's going on.

[Juxtapose]

Well if you don't want someone on your private property you can trespass them. So somebody trying to cross somewhere would just be told to leave and they could likely finish their journey and just get the hell out of there.

If the officer does have reasonable, articulable suspicion, is in hot pursuit, etc then there are exceptions.

[worldscolide]

My problem is qualified immunity. Look it up. It allows them to violate our rights and get away with it.

[Juxtapose]

Oh I know what it is, I thought it was implied by increasing personal accountability

[Juxtapose]

You can't have accountability if you are immune.

[BetaBucks]

It doesn't apply to violating people's rights. Anywhere in the US, at least. This is misinformation that got spread by bootlickers that don't want people suing cops. It applies only when they didn't break any laws or violate department policy. Sue them every chance you get.

And I mean rights as established by the legislative and judicial. I think half of what cops do is a violation of our rights, but the courts have given them those powers, so obviously they shouldn't be punished for doing what they're legally allowed to do.

[Juxtapose]

@BetaBucks if you sue them the city or whoever bankrolls the cops are going to be the ones that pay for it and the individual cop is not going to care whatsoever.

[worldscolide]

Except it happens all the time @betabucks it's sad you're too blind to see it.

[BetaBucks]

Cops are only exempt from personal liability when they followed all laws and policies. You can sue them directly and the courts will fine them directly. Obviously the city will always have a higher fine, if also sued, because they have more money, but that doesn't exempt the cop. Sue them directly and they will have to pay directly.

[BetaBucks]

@worldscollide no it doesn't. If the cop is proven to have violated policy or laws, they can't be given qualified immunity. You don't have a single example of it happening, because that's not how it works. You want to take it personally and put me down, then you better produce an example. Or educate yourself in what qualified immunity is before you run your fucking mouth.

[worldscolide]

@BetaBucks https://www.naacpldf.org/qualified-immunity/

[OddBeMe]

Well…toughy because a cop DOES have the right to be on your property AND you still can go to jail for not following his orders (like “back up”) or arrested for impeding his investigation.

But I think cops have enough qualified immunity and enough protection that if a judge ok’s a lawsuit or criminal trial there’s enough there.

[Juxtapose]

No they have to have a reason to hang around on your property when you are trespassing them (warrant). You should not have to follow some pig's orders on your property if they do not have a warrant.

I want them to be stripped of their immunity.

[OddBeMe]

Eh, maybe. I think the BLM protests have succeeded in curtailing bad coppery and they use tasers now instead of guns. But I agree in general. Not sure what Internal Affairs does, apparently nothing.

[Juxtapose]

There's just no accountability for them. If an individual cop does something fucked up and you sue them? Guess who pays? The taxpayer.

[OddBeMe]

Don’t go off the deep end. there's accountability. But half the country is usually for looking the other way. Just ask how many think Chauvin was wrongfully convicted.

[DrPepper12]

They must have reasonable, articulable suspicion of a CRIME otherwise GFY cuz this convo is consensual and I don't grant consent.

[OddBeMe]

@DrPepper12 sure, and also any evidence or info they gather will have to go in front of a judge. Show if it can be shown they had no right on the property, like searching a car illegally, the nudge can toss it.

But again, cops are given some leeway on a persons property if they are “investigating”.

[NaultD]

It won't matter unless there is oversight. There is too much locker room good ol boys club even to the union. So a third party civilian discipline committee should be a thing.

[Juxtapose]

Well they do still get sued and if they are personally liable? They will start educating themselves on the Constitution real fucking quick.

[ProbablyClueless]

No. What we need is to crack down on the good old boys club mentality in those organizations.

[PreferNot2Say]

They should be required to pass a constitutional rights test while in the academy.

[Dargil]

I think police need both more freedom to effectively police and more accountability when they abuse their mission.

[Juxtapose]

What freedom do they really need when they don't even know the restrictions that are supposed to be placed on them? They are already operating outside of proper bounds.

[Dargil]

I see you have never been a cop. I forgive your ignorance.

[Juxtapose]

I went to a dojo with a cop, rode with cops in their police cruisers as part of a junior explorers program and police officers were regularly impressed with my knowledge of the law that none of my other classmates possessed.

One thing cops need to learn is they are not entitled to grab your ID like they are a fucking cocaine addict fiending for a fix.

[Juxtapose]

Most cops I encounter are cool but the amount of bad cops I see people record is unfucking believable.

[Dargil]

A "dojo with a cop" is like going to a strip bar. You see some equipment and procedures, but have no feel for what a woman (or a cop) is. What you have is preformed bigotry just like a Klansman, anti-Semite and a Trump Hater.

[Juxtapose]

Actions speak louder than platitudes homie. My roommate when he was a kid had cops bust into his home and when he asked them for a warrant they told him to fuck off and shut up.

https://youtu.be/kNrJQ29oHkc?si=xibJUCGhIcwSjt2Y

https://youtu.be/u1JMWOnMOdk?si=Yrg-9OqUxhhRXH_8

[Dargil]

Does that incident represent the 708,000 police officers in the USA? How many of them are "Bad Cops"? Your expressions are anecdotal and represent nothing.

[Juxtapose]

Dude have you checked the domestic abuse rates of cops? 40% of families with cops in them have domestic abuse. Police officers receive less training time than a hairdresser and they are extremely ignorant of the Constitution.

[Juxtapose]

The amount of police who don't understand the first or fourth amendment alone is astounding.

[DrPepper12]

@Juxtapose. Bringing the receipts!! ♥️

[Juxtapose]

@DrPepper12 yeah, they make it too easy. These stats are popular and have been around forever.

[RedInnocent69]

Agreed. Never trust cops or doctors. Ironically lawyers are often your best choice 😂

[Dongie]

So, if he survived how much did he get?

I know that asshat was fired?

[Juxtapose]

I'm not sure but given that this is a very obvious violation and is viral, that guy is going to face some sort of punishment.

[Juxtapose]

With that footage it's an open and shut case. You absolutely cannot trespass on people's private property if they don't want you there.

[Dongie]

Yep, they being sued personally would cut this kind of shit out muey pronto.