It's better to think of voting not as a moral choice but as a strategic one (at least under our current voting system). what do you think?

[Anonymous]

At least here in the united states with our 'first past the post voting system'. When you vote you aren't voting your conscience really.. you are voting for the best and/or- least harmful to the country- choice presented to you. So this is how i at least treat voting now. unless something changes and we get a robust ranked choice voting system instead this is how voting should be treated. Or to put it another way voting is a 'math problem' and not a 'moral problem'. so just do the simple math 'who's better or least harmful for the country' and vote for who that is. This election the choice is literally night and day: Fascism (trump) vs democracy (Kamala). if you value democracy... vote for the one who still believes in it. very easy choice.

Here's an old but very informative video on how our First past the post voting system works and the inherent issues with it:

and here's the voting system we really need Ranked Choice voting. if we had this then voting on your conscience is more viable in my opinion. and by the way we actually do have this in a few state elections and they can vouch for the benefits.

I agree thats a better way to look at voting

I disagree, it should be a moral choice

I have a different opinion

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

It should be a choice for us to vote for any candidate of our choice, what matters the most is candidates who put the other one down during their campaign rally. The best thing is to not mention any names and for example: Make a statement on why the Country would be better with them as US President. Just leave the names out of all commercial ads. If I ran for US President, that is how I would see things and may let your choice be yours, but I would love to be your US President.

[DrPepper12]

In an ideal world I would support Trump and terminate the Constitution. Problem is, what kind of radical riff raff on both sides would be thrown up to lead the fickle mob.

Fact is we need a parliamentary system at state n federal levels with preservation of the bill of rights.

I consider voting like being a passenger on a bus. Will that bus take me exactly to my doorstep? No? Ok, will I be closer to my destination? Ok, that's who gets my vote. It's positivist instead of voting against someone.

[Caroline91]

I think we should do away with political parties. Perhaps at the local level someone can be elected who is a true public servant. However, I would contend that at both the state and federal levels that even getting the nomination almost surely guarantees that the candidate has been corrupted on some level.

[Asker]

Would be nice but we gotta make do with what we got unfortunately

[Caroline91]

Ok, Moral choice and to ensure it is possible, get rid of political parties! lol

[DrPepper12]

Your gonna prevent humans from clotting before the aneurysm of the body politic?

Lmk how that goes. Humans always form groups & hierarchies. ALWAYS.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Why not both?

[Asker]

you can do both but its better to prioritize strategy first especially in this election. if you don't like kamala then realize what a threat the opposition is. if you choose not to vote, or vote third party you must still live with the consequences of whoever wins. its still a math problem at the end of the day.

People stayed home in 2016 and as a result we got three terrible scotus members who stripped women of their bodily autonomy. Hilary was bad... but Trump was objectively worse. voting or your conscience then was not a smart move.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

What I mean is strategy which is better choice morally. I don't think most people are like Kant who would say even if one choice will have objectively better/less bad results I still should pick a worse option to "keep my hands clean." Just have to realize not voting is also an option, it's not avoiding the decision it is making a decision also. This whole electoral college is one big trolley problem and ur right we need people to start pulling levers to prevent more deaths.

[Asker]

im more of a consequentialist so i go with the option that leads to the overall better outcome in most situations. so if my conscience was telling me kamala wasn't good, i'd still vote for her because i know to sit it out or vote for trump would bring about objectively worse outcomes.
i think this serves me better in the long run.

of course if we did have ranked choice i would absolutely tell people to vote their conscience. but we don't have that here in the US.. at least not federally

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's just it, your conscious agrees with ur logic doesn't it? You would feel like you did a bad thing if u didn't vote and then Trump won? They are connected for most people me included. I can't have morals without logic or logic without morals it wouldn't make sense for me.

[Asker]

Well if sitting it out was actually a legit option and didn't incidentally lead to a bad outcome like in a ranked choice voting system and the candidates were all terrible i would be doing that.

i guess i can see your point -i just- if we could truly make a moral choice where that actually matters voting or choosing not to vote on that would work.

the people sitting at home or voting third party here despite knowing the threat trump poses... yeah its bad to me. thats where voting or not-voting your conscience comes in conflict with voting strategically.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I'm telling u man it's the trolley problem, & lotta people don't realize not pulling the lever doesn't keep ur hands clean—its still a choice. Doing nothing rarely is morally neutral.