Thought Experiment: who came off as more "powerful"?

[OddBeMe]

To me, Zelensky... slapping JD down with his stupid diplomacy talk... which Putin broke under Trump's first term!

Trump

Zelensky

J. D... just kidding. A monkey has more intelligence

[NordicInScandinavia]

No one came out more "powerful".

What I saw was 2 bullies and someone being bullied, it was set up to fail, the power dynamics were WAY of balance (2 against 1, 2 speaking their native language - 1 not)

Zelennsky did what he was supposed to do, speak for his people and ask for things for their safety, show what they're going through but that got brushed off. And wtf was this "have you ever once said thanks" BS - the man doesn't do anything but thank everyone constantly. But powerful he wasn't. I think he came out with more support, where most shake their head at how poorly he got treated.

I'd hate knowing the leader of my country was this big of a sucker for ass kissing and validation from others. Kiss his ass the right way and he's yours, refuse to kiss his ass the right way and you'll face the consequences. (Was a reason a headliner here was "Trump is Europa's Voldemort" a couple of weeks ago)

[OddBeMe]

I'll go along with that. But Z knew more about American recent history than the other two morons

[NordicInScandinavia]

I think most do tbh and if I'm supposed to be completely honest then I've not seen the full video. Was to painful and frankly embarrassing to watch.

[ProbablyClueless]

If you can muster the strength to watch the whole video, I would definitely recommend it. I am still very much in the pro-Zelensky camp after watching the full video, but the vibe of the meeting totally changes.

[NordicInScandinavia]

@ProbablyClueless read the transcripts, saw what I needed and that the vibe changes later or before doesn't change the vibe I got to see and that alone was enough to be horrific. It will be some time till I'll be mustering the strength to see 2 indivual do their best to humiliate a 3rd just because he dared to say that right now they don't feel the consequences of this war with a ocean in-between but they will in the future. Which is very possible if Putin gets his way through Trump.

[ProbablyClueless]

Well... that's my point, actually. What you realize from actually watching the video the whole way through is that this was NOT two people trying to humiliate a third. Zelensky is really rude and combative from the start, interrupting and trying to talk over Trump. The transcript doesn't give an accurate depiction of the energy of what was going on at all.

What you watched with the culmination of that tension only happens after a lot of extremely unpleasant behavior from Zelensky.

[NordicInScandinavia]

@ProbablyClueless

Now I've watched 20 minutes (so far)

What I see is a man who's trying his best to follow along what is being said, he is VERY focused on listening and comprehending what is being said. Not to brag but my English skills are better than his, and even I had to tune in a bit.

First time someone was interrupted, then it was actually trump that interrupted Z, after he managed to get in a word about a question AFTER trump as said what he wanted.

Then I heard a lot of trump speaking as Ukraine and Russia are the same, as Ukraine plays a role on Russia INVADING their country and they're being hostile for protecting their lands. I have HIGH respect for Z here for not walking out right there tbh, and I do take back what I said, so far Z comes out Powerful as fuck visually on how well he actually composes himself within the dynamics and settings he's in. Then I see him try to get in a word a couple of times (and getting frustrated that he can't). But that i did read through the lines of the transcript and definetly not a setup for Z to succeed on. I feel for him wholeheartedly as someone who's been in a situation where language was a barrier.

This is more painful than I thought it would be but I'll muster through the rest tomorrow. I'll have night terrors if this is the last thing I listen to before sleep.

[ProbablyClueless]

Good on you! Like I said; watching the full video didn't change my final conclusion, but it's definitely worth doing.

[NordicInScandinavia]

@ProbablyClueless

You just said it did change your final conclusion and so far it hasn't changed shit for me. Still looking for this shit you claim, with Z being hostile and rude. I still see a setup for failure and humiliation and the US succeeded.

[ProbablyClueless]

Well, if you look long enough, it's definitely there. Zelensky is and was trying to get the US to continue providing aide to Ukraine without any kind of expectation of repayment. That was the deal under Biden, but Trump isn't going along with it. The Europeans aren't giving free aide. Why should the US?

And what I said is that I still had sympathy for Zelensky after watching the full video. That's my final conclusion. I think Zelensky is a man who was trying to use the moment to look good to his people before having an extremely awkward conversation with them.

[NordicInScandinavia]

@ProbablyClueless

What are you on about. The repayment was coming in "dig dig dig". That's why Zelensky was there among other things.

And yes, Zelensky was doing what is needed for his country of course he was trying to get the support of Trump, who isn't being supportive of Ukraine as it is which plays a role in the hesitation of EU as Zelensky actually mentions himself if you actually listen to what he says.

And I AM looking, as I've said - I see a man, who's focused and REALLY trying to follow a long what is being said while probably in disbelief over the fact that he and his people are being blamed on equal grounds with Russia for the invasion of his country as in they asked for it or something. You're right here, I didn't see that through the transcript, it's uncomfortable to watch.

I do stand corrected, see two times Zelensky interrupts Trump, that is when Trump takes a jab at his clothes and makes sure that he's not liked by a person in the room and then again when Trump tries to throw out the disinformation of the destruction of Ukraine. Kudos for him holding this long.

Think I've approximately 10ish minutes until the real uncomfy things, so I'll be back. Maybe the rudeness that leads to the bullying comes out there.

[ProbablyClueless]

That's my point about Zelensky using the meeting for optics. The negotiations had already taken place. The agreement just hadn't been signed yet; THAT is why Zelensky was there. He wasn't negotiating anything. Zelensky knew exactly what was being said because his diplomats already handled things.

But yeah... the whole situation sucks and makes America look bad.

[NordicInScandinavia]

@ProbablyClueless

No, they're talking about cease fire, where Zelensky points out that has been done and look at the situation now. Maybe that is what you took as rudeness? Zelensky speaking against Trump? I don't know, it's like we're watching two completely different scenarios. Zelensky was there to speak for his people and trying to ensure their future safety.

[ProbablyClueless]

Speaking on behalf of a country and ensuring peace is a diplomat's job, not a head of state's. I think Zelensky is there for optics because he doesn't need to be there and because of the demand he is making. The specific conversation they are having is that Zelensky is insisting that the US provides an additional security guarantee to enforce a ceasefire with Russia. Zelensky wants to revise the agreement his diplomats reached with the US to have the US say it will go to war with Russia if Russia violates the ceasefire.

That is a WILD demand. The only reason any rational politician in Zelensky's position would make a demand like that on public television is to make sure his countrymen feel like he's fighting for them.

[Anonymous]

Zelensky came off as a little boy throwing a tantrum because he couldn't get more pockets money.

[Anonymous]

Trump is obviously more powerful. he's the one whom everyone is complaining is the bully with the power imbalance lol

even then Zelenskyy is making excuses to not hold an immediate ceasefire to stop more people from being killed in this conflict

stopping the killing should be the number 1 priority before any other deal is negotiated

these are people's lives at stake, well mostly men since nobody gives a shit about men but if it were women on the front lines, a ceasefire would be heavily insisted

[ProbablyClueless]

Trump, for sure. Zelensky looked like a desperate man who needed to win some political favor with his people before having a very awkward conversation with them. I really felt for him. Zelensky and the whole EU look like gigantic assholes right now.

Watch that meeting the whole way through. It gives a totally different vibe than the little clipped version the news media shows people.

[Sevenpointfive]

it's pretty awful to watch. they treated zelensky poorly and i hate the guy.

[Dargil]

Trump showed focus. Zelenskyy showed weakness. Vance showed discipline.