I think this is a fundamental problem in our politics, yes?

[OddBeMe]

Half the country wants blue collar iphone factory jobs... the other half knows it's never coming back.

Agreed, this is the problem

No it's not the problem

[OneViewpoint]

It's part of the problem. The larger underlying problem is that the people who want those jobs back are dumber than a bag of rocks. They have been (easily) manipulated into blaming everything but the actual root cause of the job losses.

Republicans and MAGA blame Democrats and liberals and their commie ideas. And big govamint regulations.

Democrats and Progressives blame Republicans for being the whores of corporations and billionaires and bending over to make it possible for those jobs to be offshored.

But the real problem is Capitalism. It's a workable economic system but it is not without flaws. It promotes "good" decisions for a few while everyone else gets the shaft. The corporations and billionaires would argue that the CEO's have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder returns my making the most profit possible. And they did that the last 40 years by sending hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs to the other side of the planet.

Was that good for the American people as a whole? No. A lot of people (families) lost good paying jobs. Was it good strategic policy for the USA? Well we saw what happened to 12,000 mile supply chains in a pandemic. It was a disaster. Did the CEO's do well for investors? Yes. Are you an investor or an employee? Did the govamint force those corporations to move those jobs? No. The corporations wanted those jobs moved.

So at the end of the day, the people MAGA and the working class should blame are the extremist Capitalists, billionaires, who have corrupted our economy and jeopardized our middle class and our strategic interests for profits. Capitalism is the problem.

[OddBeMe]

Yes, not dumb per se, just ignorant. Like anti immigrants. They wouldn't want those China slave jobs of assembling iphones. And I wish our economy wasn't so in need of slave labor. :(

[DrPepper12]

Laissez-faire capitalism IS the enemy; your right. We need regulated capitalism to remove the negative externalities - like Scandanavia does. Very happy, very successful. The war is over if we want it...

[OneViewpoint]

@DrPepper12 ,

Exactly on target. Well managed and regulated capitalism is the best I think we can achieve. But at the moment Citizens United has given the Oligarchs unlimited dark money for bribes. That needs to be crushed. A Constitutional amendment would be nice. But almost impossible.

[Avicenna]

@DrPepper12: you shouldn not be trying to match Odd´s stupidity and extremism. The abuses by the CCP are anything but free market capitalism- in fact it is very regulated by the state.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna no body said the CCP were Laissez-faire dumbass. Like usual you chime in on a convo way over your head.

[Avicenna]

LOL, you’re such an idiot and you miss the point. CCP is an example of overregulation (actually much of Europe is too, just much more benign).

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna actually no. Over regulation suggests there’s a free market taking the hit. There’s isn’t one in China. It’s a dictatorial party state. There are no “regs”.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@OddBeMe @OneViewpoint @DrPepper12 The problem now isn't capitalism, and capitalism has never been the problem. The problems are over regulation, big fat stupid bloated intrusive grim reaper albatross government, and demonizing merits and skills across the board in favor of quotas without insuring proper qualifications beforehand.

[OneViewpoint]

@NYCQuestions1976 ,

You have it exactly backwards. Pull your head out of the echo chamber long enough to have an original thought. The reason this country is falling apart is unfettered Capitalism facilitating unlimited greed. The wealth gap continues to widen. it's not working for 99% of the population. And you're either blind to it or a shill for the Koch brothers and their friends.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@OneViewpoint Wrong.

You have it exactly backwards. Pull your head out of the echo chamber long enough to have an original thought. The reason this country is falling apart is unfettered limousine liberals in government attempting to facilitate unlimited taxation. The wealth gap continues to widen. It's not working for 99% of the population. You're either blind to it or a shill for Soros and his friends.

The government isn't your friend.

[OneViewpoint]

@NYCQuestions1976 ,

Ah so the Koch brothers and Elon Musk are your friends? Good luck with that.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@OneViewpoint Friends? Of course not, bit at least Musk is striving for tiny miniscule non-intrusive federal government. Meanwhile, you want to side with government borderlining on socialism over capitalism? Good luck with that.

The United States is a Constitutional Republic driven by capitalism. Luckily for those of us who use common sense and critical thinking, and value individual personal freedoms, that's how it will remain. The United States will NEVER be a socialist country.

[OneViewpoint]

@NYCQuestions1976 ,

OK, you're a cult member who can only spout the party line. No point in talking to you. Bye.

[MuddyMole]

Do they really want blue collar iPhone factory jobs, though?
All these jobs in manufacturing and agriculture that they're so upset about losing, are exactly the same jobs that noone but immigrants are prepared to do anyway.

[OddBeMe]

That’s the paradox. They don’t, they want 1950s factory jobs. Even Trump was talking about the days of robber barons the other day.

But the 1950s were funded by the GI bill and a 90% top tax rate. And manufacturing still wouldn’t come back unless Americans accepted 30 cents an hour.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@OddBeMe "Maybe we should focus on college tech jobs instead of spending 30 mill to bring back a coal mine."

Your dumb attitude and 'tarded opinions (and anyone who shares them with you, like @DrPepper12 ) towards manufacturing, generating energy, and blue-collar work in general are the reasons why there's a massive shortage of electricians, carpenters, plumbers, iron workers, steam fitters, welders, etcetera in this country. Steering high school students away from well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar careers in the 1990s and 2000s and towards "college tech jobs" en masse was one of the stupidest things that ever happened in this country.

Oh and another thing: I guarantee that with my well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar career as an electrician, I can EASILY run circles around you and your "college bro/tech" ass intellectually AND financially.

Less drinking, more therapy.

[Anonymous]

Lol those blue collar jobs require a high decree of education that most college students just aren't getting anymore. Is a college education a requirement to work at Starbucks because that is what is happening and why college graduates can't pay off their loans.

The college degree racket is over. Too many are attending that are not academically fit enough for college, they scrapping by with poor majors or dropping out all together and with thousands of dollars in debt they can't pay.

A country that doesn't or can't manufacture anything has no future and no economy.

[OddBeMe]

Then why are we college bros making more money?

[Opinion Owner]

If that were true you would have no problem paying off your student debts

[OddBeMe]

M student loan is 6% Pell grant. I pay off credit cards and other shit, it’s like a mortgage

[Opinion Owner]

Uh huh and that's why there are so many college graduates begging tax payers to pay off their student loans and working in Starbucks.

[Opinion Owner]

youtube.com/shorts/h_OhKvgTgEw?si=dsktqDlPoGKV1VaR

[OddBeMe]

I mean it’s a bubble. More because of fake colleges like phoenix U

[OddBeMe]

Wow that’s a racist meme.

But yes black college students from shit schools thrust into univ life is an issue. Are you saying we shouldn’t try?

[Opinion Owner]

I'm saying a large number of college graduates in the last 10 years are working in the service industry making minimum wage.

[OddBeMe]

There are large numbers of youngsters fresh out of college doing that. They can get better jobs if forced to move out.

Maybe we should focus on college tech jobs instead of spending 30 mill to bring back a coal mine.

[DrPepper12]

Don't need humans for manufacturing. Isn't that obvious? Furthermore, isn't it obvious that we're a service economy?

[Opinion Owner]

Yes and that's a problem, these service job employees end up working there full time long term.
Coal is just another natural resource like oil or gas, if its unprofitable they won't exist. Besides burning coal there are all sorts of products that can be made with coal such as gasoline. Perhaps with advances in technology these can be profitable or perhaps not. But coal mining like all mining is not what people think. It's not a few thousand guys underground with pick axes, no it's about 20 or 30 we'll trained and qualified people driving heavy machinery.
The problem with being a service economy is that we produce nothing and have nothing to sell so there's no real income and nothing coming out. Even Europe maintains their manufacturing capability and Britain is trying to protect its steel industry as its a strategic resource for them and they need to be able to produce steel domestically.

[OddBeMe]

Please show me evidence service jobs workers with college degrees stay there long.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@OddBeMe "Maybe we should focus on college tech jobs instead of spending 30 mill to bring back a coal mine."

Your dumb attitude and 'tarded opinions (and anyone who shares them with you, like @DrPepper12 ) towards manufacturing, generating energy, and blue-collar work in general are the reasons why there's a massive shortage of electricians, carpenters, plumbers, iron workers, steam fitters, welders, etcetera in this country. Steering high school students away from well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar careers in the 1990s and 2000s and towards "college tech jobs" en masse was one of the stupidest things that ever happened in this country.

Oh and another thing: I guarantee that with my well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar career as an electrician, I can EASILY run circles around you and your "college bro/tech" ass intellectually AND financially.

Less drinking, more therapy.

[OddBeMe]

@NYCQuestions1976 I think you’re confusing what blue collar vs educated work force is, I prob didn’t help.

Any education above high school…that’s higher ed. They’ll receive millions more in life than just HS. Unfort that’s not the case. A good 30-40% of our workforce only has high school education.

When I say rely on “college” jobs more…. I’ll rephrase to “higher ed” jobs. Im sure my plumber makes more than me a year. I do think college gives people a unique experience. Forced to meet or even bunk with people from other countries.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@OddBeMe No, I didn't confuse anything. The blue-collar work force in this country IS higher college-educated. Credible apprenticeship programs that incorporate working, training, and a higher education are 4 to 8 years long, and set up individuals with highly employable skills and life-long careers. I also work with people from all over the world (particularly Eastern Europe, Southern Asia, and the Caribbean), which is far more valuable and impactful than living off tax dollar-funded student loans doing keg stands in dorms with foreign exchange students majoring in liberal arts and other unemployable fields for 4+ years.

[Irritatedyet]

It may or may not happen, but I hope it does. I work in manufacturing and make a damn sight more than a lot of my friends that spent a lot of money to get a degree.

[OddBeMe]

I'm sure you do. But it's not in even close to averages

[Irritatedyet]

Well, it can't be because most manufacturing isn't done in the US. That doesn't change the fact that a lot of manufacturing jobs are easy work (machines do the "heavy lifting") and they pay well, especially for those that didn't want to incur huge debt to go to college only to not be able to make a good living in their chosen field.

[OddBeMe]

Not in China or mex. Which is why the easy days of blue collar are ending. And blue collar people are trying to kick out immigrants, whom they wrongly blame.

[Irritatedyet]

I'm not talking about China or Mexico. I'm talking about manufacturing jobs in the US.

[OddBeMe]

And I’m telling you, they won’t come back from China or mex unless Americans accept 30 cents per hour jobs.

“American manufacturing” is a phrase exactly like “coal powered energy”…it’s still a thing only because it hasn’t been replaced yet.

[Irritatedyet]

You may be right about that, which is exactly why I said what I said in my original response.

[OddBeMe]

And you vote for short sidedness or more manufacturing. All scientific data says it’s never coming back. Stop voting against your own interests.

Let progressives spend money on infrastructure and tech jobs, college grants, etc.

[Irritatedyet]

I get to vote however I choose and it's none of your business.

[exitseven]

Manufacturing ids not dead in America. What is dead are the old manufacturing jobs where people assembled iPhones with a screwdriver.
When the iPhone was first made it was made with a plastic screen. Steve Jobs thought it would get scratched up and it looked cheap. He wanted to have a glass screen. He contacted Corning Glass Works in Upstate NY and they said that they could supply the glass and would build a factory to make them for iPhones. It involved some kind of laser glass cutter. It would have taken a few months to get the factory on line. Apple found it would be cheaper to buy the glass from Corning and shipping it to China and they would buy a box of glass cutters and just have the slave labor do it.
Americans are the worlds best innovators and efficiency can be improved using technology and even the oldest factories can get a high tech makeover.
This is a good example
www.weathertech.com/.../...ican-success-story.html

[DrPepper12]

Nobody is investing in a time of great uncertainty and chaos. Trump defines uncertainty and chaos.

[exitseven]

@DrPepper12 Trump defines strength and prosperity.

[OddBeMe]

Problem: you’re voting against progressive policies based on most likely economic probabilities.

Overseas manufacturing for 30cts per hour ain’t coming back. Period. The ones stil here will slowly degrade. College jobs need to be the standard. And your voting against it.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@OddBeMe "Maybe we should focus on college tech jobs instead of spending 30 mill to bring back a coal mine."

Your dumb attitude and 'tarded opinions (and anyone who shares them with you, like @DrPepper12 ) towards manufacturing, generating energy, and blue-collar work in general are the reasons why there's a massive shortage of electricians, carpenters, plumbers, iron workers, steam fitters, welders, etcetera in this country. Steering high school students away from well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar careers in the 1990s and 2000s and towards "college tech jobs" en masse was one of the stupidest things that ever happened in this country.

Oh and another thing: I guarantee that with my well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar career as an electrician, I can EASILY run circles around you and your "college bro/tech" ass intellectually AND financially.

Less drinking, more therapy.

[exitseven]

@NYCQuestions1976 Yes, ever since I was little my parents drummed into my head that I had to go to college to succeed. Most of my friends got the same thing. We all went to college except one kid that became a carpenter. He was the one that always made more money than the rest of us and it was like twice as much.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@exitseven Exactly. Democrats and their far-left mouth pieces have driven away the blue-collar middle-class (especially the new generation of them, ages 18 to 30), and they blatantly openly don't seem to care. I see it with my own cousins, and their sisters' significant others. Like me, they're all making six figures with their blue-collar, college-educated careers.

[exitseven]

@DrPepper12 Tell that to the dozens of countries that have already agreed to invest in building factories and facilities in the US Literally trillions of investments.

[OddBeMe]

Lol no one is seriously beleivng factories will be built for American workers demanding 400x the pay of mexies or commie workers

They'll promise trump that and then never do it

[exitseven]

if they want to sell the the US they will and they all want access to the most lucrative market in the world.

[OddBeMe]

No they won't. But good talk.

[Sevenpointfive]

i can't even answer that question. it's confusing.

white unemployed men do want those jobs. and college was base level for a long time before. but not anymore. college is for those that want higher than a 4-year degree.

i can see a trade school education as being the base. but even then, the base before that was high school. you really don't need it to go into trade schools unless it's a STEM career.

i think the baby boom fucked my generation in believing in that dream. the government wasn't expecting it and it caused a shortage of workers that were too intelligent and basically doing the jobs that blue collar workers should be doing.

they kind of got fucked again because those blue collar jobs don't want to hire a smart person. so, they watch as teenagers from the next gen surpass them with a GED and they become their supervisor. i think it's because the management feels threatened by someone who can do their job. honestly anyone can do a blue collar job. it's a kiss-ass game.

ultimately we might not need education at all for children that don't like school. if they can be influenced by a teacher that they are a transgender then what's the point in going through life after puberty knowing you cut off your dick or grew one surgically?

ok. i'm gonna stop there or i will go on forever and i'd rather have it in pieces

[MisterWack]

I mean, yeah.
We used to be the factory workers working long painful hours with not much benefits then we’d go home to our big house with our wife waiting for us with children with a surplus of food on the table all because of that basic income lifestyle.

Then those factories went overseas and were made cheap. I didn’t think about it, but the World War II situation caused factories to be blown up, destroyed, or rendered completely useless from all those bombs / artillery fire across the world minus America since we were disconnected from everywhere else thanks to an ocean separating us.

That just isn’t going to happen again.
Like it isn’t, one side is a dreamer living in a fantasy that is unobtainable and the other side is reality that wants to do the best with what we got going on.
We have made great strides though like the Chips and Science Act to make microchips / semiconductors in the United States of America however we won’t likely see America as the factory powerhouse it once was.

[exitseven]

Biden spent 50 billion on the so called CHIPS act. It was well intentioned but was only half completed. They were able to spend all the money but not a single job was created.

[Anonymous]

@oddbeme "Maybe we should focus on college tech jobs instead of spending 30 mill to bring back a coal mine."

Your dumb attitude and 'tarded opinions (and anyone who shares them with you, like @drpepper12 ) towards manufacturing, generating energy, and blue-collar work in general are the reasons why there's a massive shortage of electricians, carpenters, plumbers, iron workers, steam fitters, welders, etcetera in this country. Steering high school students away from well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar careers in the 1990s and 2000s and towards "college tech jobs" en masse was one of the stupidest things that ever happened in this country.

Oh and another thing: I guarantee that with my well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar career as an electrician, I can EASILY run circles around you and your "college bro/tech" ass intellectually AND financially.

By now, you know what you need: Less drinking, more therapy.

[Opinion Owner]

This is @NYCQuestions1976. I anonymized my identity so that all the liberal gaslighting crybabies see this.

@OneViewpoint You're just another censorship-loving gaslighting far-left socialist loser moron with a bowl of stale oatmeal in your head that can't stand being challenged and proven wrong. What a sniveling crybaby coward. 😂😂😂

[OddBeMe]

I think we're confusing what is blue collar versus white collar. I'd say any education above high school is higher ed... thus white collar.

[Opinion Owner]

Blue-collar careers require education beyond high school and higher education degrees just like white-collar careers. The only significant difference is that the vast majority of blue-collar workers go through an apprenticeship (paid to work at their craft while also attending college), whereas the vast majority of white-collar workers don't get paid jobs in their profession until they start their careers after graduating college. If they do work at their profession while still in college, they're usually unpaid internships.

[OddBeMe]

Again... whatev defintion you want.

But nearly half of america has no education past high school. That's fucked.

[Opinion Owner]

Not necessarily. Education and intelligence are frequently NOT intertwined. People with multiple degrees in liberal arts and other such "majors" are basically useless in everyday society. If/When colleges and universities stop being socialism camps, the cost becomes reasonable, and people still are not going, then maybe I'll start being concerned.

Another example. Politics aside, gut feeling only: You're charged with a serious crime, and facing serious time. Would you want Kamala Harris (as an independent attorney, no firm in the background backing her up) representing you?

[OddBeMe]

Whatev... I can post studies and stats that show average earnings of higher ed folks outpacing HS grads by millions of dollars.

[OddBeMe]

And i have no fucking clue what lawyer I'd hire if I were charged with a crime. Unfort lawyers have relations with judges and hiring one with a track record in crimes I'm supposedly charged with would be the goal.

MY TURN: Would a President Kamala have detonated $10 trillion in 2 days by idiocy?

[Opinion Owner]

@oddbeme All I'm pointing out is that the trained educated plumbers and electricians are at least on par with (and many times better off than) all of the white-collar "bros". Plus the blue-collar workers have no student loans on the taxpayers' dime.

It was a reasonable, tangible scenario/question. Did you forget that Harris was (somehow) a criminal prosecutor and the Attorney General of California? I'm pretty sure that a lot of African Americans with very minor offenses in California haven't forgotten.

A "President Harris" would've tanked the economy and stock market (except the wine stocks) before she had the chance to even try your scenario. The tariffs are a forceful bargaining tool that are slowly but surely working. Countries are coming to the table to renegotiate. You're too deep into your TDS spiral to see and/or admit that.

[OddBeMe]

Funny Biden/Harris didn’t tank the economy….

[Opinion Owner]

Were you under a rock during the Basement Biden and Word Salad Harris administration? The economy was shit, and inflation was higher than the dildo that took Katy Perry into space. Even if you were lucky to have more money, it's value was made worth far less, thanks to Basement Biden.

[OddBeMe]

Nope I'm looking at math. Markets chugging good. Trump comes in. Self detonated 10 trillion.

[Opinion Owner]

You're looking at numbers through beer goggles.

[DrPepper12]

He's selling a fantasy that hasn't existed for 50 years!! He's also pandering to very very small segments of the RESOURCE EXTRACTION labor market - miners, oil, steel, coal, family farmers / ranchers, forestry, most domestic manufacturing, etc.

If he was smart, which he's not, he would support large rural SERVICE employers like hospitals, universities, infrastructure, tech incubators, niche/region specific production, etc.

He's just so fucking stupid and the MAGAs who gargle his nuts are even dumber. It's all a fantastic voyage on the SS Trumptanic & reality is the iceberg! 🧊

[NYCQuestions1976]

@DrPepper12 Your dumb attitude and 'tarded opinions (and anyone who shares them with you, like @OddBeMe ) towards manufacturing, generating energy, and blue-collar work in general are the reasons why there's a massive shortage of electricians, carpenters, plumbers, iron workers, steam fitters, welders, etcetera in this country. Steering high school students away from well-paying, middle-class, college-educated, blue-collar careers in the 1990s and 2000s and towards "college tech jobs" en masse was one of the stupidest things that ever happened in this country.

P. S. Your 'tarded delusional TDS self is fun to point and laugh at, and provides me with fantastic entertainment. Keep it up. 😉👍😂

[exitseven]

@DrPepper12 The problem with that is that hospitals, universities and the like lack profit canters. They rely on the government to operate. Bigger government and higher taxes is what Trump wants to reverse.

[DrPepper12]

Yes. He wants it both ways and you both hear what you want to hear.

[OddBeMe]

@exitseven funny he also is funding coal jobs and promising Americans we'll be building our own iphoones. I dont want those jobs.

[exitseven]

He is promoting coal mining jobs. The government just needs to get out of the way and let the free market take over. Also oil drilling and construction jobs. America needs jobs where you can support a family.

[OddBeMe]

@exitseven it did that and closed coal mines. Just like free markets caused factories going overseas for 30 cts per hr. Thanks for proving my point.

[jshm2]

LOL.

There are no "blue collar" jobs coming - it's a myth. The USA has neither the time, skills or workforce to boost any manufacturing sector. It's why Microsoft, Panasonic and others have pulled out their existing plans to make datacentres and factories- let alone anyone coming in to start new. It takes 3-6 years to plan, build and resource a building - not 3-6 months.

Also, to mass produce electronics you need raw materials and quality infrastructure - The USA has neither.

Lastly, with the current Trump regime shutting down the department for education and nearly all federal programs. You'll be lucky to even find a high school to attend, let alone college or university.

[lightbulb27]

Biden was pulling these jobs back asbisw trump… ee learned from covid we have to be more self sufficient as its national security. How much is the question.


As trump said… we WILL BE IMMIGRATING people to do these jobs! So people should stsrt plannkng their education and businesses now. I wish i had the energy i once had.
There is no problem but that we have been told to be divided and are not communicating well.

[DrPepper12]

You don't need human labor for manufacturing. You just don't.

[OddBeMe]

@DrPepper12 I might quibble on that a bit…it’s def not 100% people free.

[Snakeyes7]

The college thing has already become true. College attendance has been accepted to the point where it is just another high school and most jobs won't take you unless you have a bachelor's degree unless you really impress them.

Although i hear businesses are looking to change that and put more emphasis on experience, which iirc was what it was before. I have not seen any evidence of that though.

[DrPepper12]

Here's a crazy idea, hire all of those who are barred from any type of meaningful employment by a felony conviction instead of dooming them and their loved ones to a life of poverty and recidivism.

[Snakeyes7]

@DrPepper12 I agree. I don't see the problem with hiring a convicted felon so long as they have served their sentence. Not hiring them is one of the best ways to see them commit another crime just so that they can have a roof over their head. If they prove to be an issue then they can get fired like the rest of the employees who act up in the same way.

[DrPepper12]

Yup. Most are non violent felons to boot.

[NaultD]

If manufacturing could comeback it would also be automation production.

[oldpigg]

Automation will replace all existing jobs in the long run; the only way for humans to remain useful is through transhumanism.

[OddBeMe]

I'm not gonna catch the tranny bug!

[Avicenna]

Trade issues are a lot more complex than your simple, four year old mind can handle.

[NathanDavis]

NAFTA... was the before and after...

[noohair]

Why do you hate the people that have "Blue Collar" jobs? Someone has to clean up your sh! t...

[OddBeMe]

I don’t. I hate the polls that suggest they’re against change. They should be educating themselves and getting better jobs. Not voting for a guy who spend 30 million to bring back a useless coal mine.

[Anonymous]

Big Time!