An argument against illegal immigration is that causes many uneducated people to enter your society. In your opinion, is that a good argument?

[Anonymous]

And before some of you dummies argue that there are already lots of uneducated people in society, realize that is a bad argument because just because you already have something that is bad in your society does not mean necessarily you want more of it. There are lots of drug addicts in society too. That does not mean you want more. Murderers too.

Yes, in my opinion that is a good argument.

No, in my opinion that is not a good argument.

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[Syntosi]

It is a dumb argument and I would say its the exact opposite. The people who generally makes the journey to another country tends to be the people with the highest personal drive and ambitions. The are the ones who, if not already given the chance would climb in academia as well as the kind that would open and run new businesses. In many ways they have already self-selected themselves to be among the best that humanity has to offer while leaving the old, sick and unmotivated behind wherever they came from.

[Asker]

That is a nice theory, but it is not supported by reality. In reality, illegal immigrants don't disproportionately get Ph. D. s or become CEOs, as your theory above would suggest.

[Syntosi]

Actually they do. Immigrants, especially those that travel further distances display a higher degree of ambition and innovation than in the average from the society they came from and also generally compared to the average in the society they moved to. This also includes them having higher levels of education where that is permitted AKA if education was readily available in their home country. Alternatively, if they are allowed education in their new country then they are likely to achieve a higher level of education.

As for becoming business owners? Ever noticed the explosion of pizza restaurants or Asian restaurants? The service industry is an easy place to start for someone with high ambitions and low funds so many take this opportunity to carve out a little business for themselves.

And they do this while starting from a lower point than the average person in your country. If they were given equal resources or even become invested in then they would achieve even greater feats of economic development for your country.

It takes a certain kind of mindset to drop everything you have and move into an unknown future somewhere far away in a foreign land. Most people do not have this and it is a valuable trait for people to have if you want them to become successful.

[Asker]

Are you conflating legal and illegal immigrants? I hate it when people do that. It is so intellectually dishonest.

[Syntosi]

Honesty? I literally dont care about the distinction. Immigration is a state issue (as in national governments), not a civilian issue. Immigrants, illegal or not has no real influence on my life, its entirely about the bureaucracy of the government AKA keeping track of people to tax and at a stretch about police if you want to argue that we should live in a police state where the government has the right to our information regardless of our criminal status.

But I digress, my point is that illegal immigration as we see it is entirely the problem with the process of immigration. Trying to stop them from entering the country or whatever is pointless, in that it has never worked, makes the problem worse and is costing us a bunch of money. The only way to eliminate illegal immigration is to make the process of legally immigrating actually functional and as short as possible. Simple really.

Immigrants are going to come to your country regardless of what you do, you simply get to choose in what form they arrive. If you try to stop them then they are going to find a "alternative way" of gaining access, one that is objectively worse for you if you want to do things like tax them.

[Asker]

Of course illegal immigrants have an influence on your life. Your tax dollars pay for their kids to go to school, some healthcare and even some poverty relief programs. Heck, as we speak, your tax dollars being used to pay for ICE agents who are removing them.

[Syntosi]

No they do not have an influence on my life. Even if you want to argue about the tax dollars you have to accept that the math is not on your side. Illegal immigrants contribute more to taxes simply by living in the country than they could ever benefit from. They are literally subsidizing your ass.

Also, fuck ICE. It should be abolished and most of the people in that rotten organization should be put in jail for a LARGE number of different crimes.

[Lliam]

No. We actually need people who are willing to work hard menial jobs like farm work, construction, cleaning services, etc.

I have hired illegal immigrants in the past to do things like help with moving and yard work. They always worked super hard and did a great job.
They used to come here to work.

Illegal immigrants were never a problem until Biden allowed millions to stream into the country and encouraged them with free housing, money and other benefits.

[Asker]

Right, but even if illegal immigrants disappear, people will still do those jobs. People have been doing menial tasks since the dawn of civilization. That is like saying that if we end slavery, then no one will do the tasks that slaves once did. People will still do the work that slaves and illegal immigrants do.

[Lliam]

How many American citizens are going to pick fruit and veggies, clean hotel rooms, or do hard manual labor for minimum wage? Young people these days don't know how to work.

We closed the border in 1942 and had to start the bracero program to allow migrant workers to enter the country to fill the vacant jobs.

[RavVid]

In terms of illegal immigration into my country I am most concerned at criminal aspects.

Any one seeking to enter illegally is exactly of a character we don't want. Humanitarian immigration slots are taken up by these queue jumpers. So we intern them on Nauru island within 24 hours of stepping onto a beach.

[Syntosi]

I think this is far closer to the truth than you probably would like to admit. The fact that you brought up "queue jumpers", as if its natural for there to be a queue is very revealing. There should not be a queue. USA which is the "largest" and most powerful nation in the world should not struggle with the administrative requirements of handling asylum claims and immigration requests. This screw-up is both a national embarrassment... and very much intentional. That, if anything, is a problem.

[RavVid]

@Syntosi @Syntosi I am happy to admit to interning illegals so I have no shame or reluctance to admit to anything :).

I am not 100% sure if you are saying the US should be able to manage a queue list or should not need to have a queue.

The world population is over 8 Billion and most of them would like to go to a wealthier country.

I don't any country can take in 6 Billion immigrants and keep the same standard of living. Not even the US.

[Syntosi]

There is no excuse for why USA has an immigration queue. It is perfectly capable of handling all the administrative aspects of immigration and asylum without delays or rushing the process. The fact that people are waiting 10+ years in the process of gaining citizenship is entirely manufactured to punish them.

[RavVid]

@Syntosi OK now understand your point I can't really comment on the US durations. In our case Their are many different visa categories some of which takes days and some which take about 4 years.

Citizenship is as separate process after obtaining a visa.

I suspect humanitarian visas are in effect much longer. We take refugees off the the UN-HRC queue and there are always more applications than slots. From the perspective of a refugee he/she sees the time it takes on the UN-HRC queue followed by the visa queue.

[exitseven]

Yes, we have enough uneducated people in the country. It is crazy to import more of them. Uneducated. indigent people can only qualify for menial jobs that do not pay enough to live and will end up on some form of government assistance.

[DrPepper12]

Adding uneducated people is always undesirable but there are other considerations like asylum, skills, demographics, etc.

[blackeagle007]

This isn’t a political party thing. Let’s be realistic. We have allowed whomever to come for over half a century. That’s on us, the people period.

[SmokinAces2000]

Uneducated in what sense? Because the people who are against illegal immigration don’t seem to be very fond of education anyway.

[seeyounexttuesday]

So if. You have 100 ignorant people and import 50 more…is that going to be better or worse for society?

[Anonymous]

It puts food on your table.

[Asker]

No it doesn't. Even if all illegal immigrants were removed I would still have food on my table. It may be a little more expensive. And not all food is produce by illegal immigrants.

[Opinion Owner]

Ignorance must be bliss. You will learn the hard way.

[Asker]

People have been picking food since the dawn of civilization. That is like saying if slavery ends, no one will pick cotton.

[Opinion Owner]

Just watch

[Opinion Owner]

And learn