Is being an ally of the US more dangerous than being its enemy?

[Anonymous]

I’ve been following Turkey’s defense situation closely — it’s complicated. Turkey still operates about 250 aging F-16s (in service since 1987). It joined the F-35 program in 2002 and made an initial payment (about $1.25B). After failing to procure Patriot systems, Turkey purchased Russia’s S-400 for roughly $2.5B. That purchase led to CAATSA sanctions, Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program, and the withheld delivery of jets it had already paid for.

Turkey largely shelved the S-400s and turned to developing domestic air-defense systems and, in 2019, launched its own fighter program, KAAN. Combining the S-400 cost and the lost F-35 payments gives an immediate hit in the neighborhood of $3.8B (using the figures cited).

To reduce dependence on Russia, Turkey signed a $43B gas deal with the U. S. — reportedly pricier than Russian gas — which some hoped might reopen F-35 talks, but no deliveries or engine support materialized. As a stopgap before KAAN (targeted for 2028), Turkey agreed to buy 44 Eurofighter Typhoons from Europe for about $10B; the Typhoon lacks F-35-style stealth and even some Eurofighter partner nations operate F-35s themselves.

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Now the U. S. is blocking engine exports for KAAN, arguing Turkey will need about 15 years to develop a domestic engine, so Turkey must seek alternatives. Despite being a NATO member, Turkey feels treated like an adversary rather than an ally — a perception that raises tough questions: what is the U. S. strategy here, and how much do other regional actors influence that policy?

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8 mo

Fuck your system GAG. What are those emojis, for fuck's sake? It ruined the whole thing.

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8 mo

That's interesting, I just realized it doesn't show up as the same question in the Gag mobile app and on the web. Anayway Do you think there are external influences or lobbying groups affecting this decisions?

[genericname85]

currently, i think it is. cause you're not gonna benefit. you just gotta pay protection money like the mafia. in return you'll get terrible trade conditions. so yeah. not a good decision anymore.

[Spencer10]

For Canada it sure is. Hell China is a more reliable trading partner now. Plus I do not think even Russia has mentioned wanting to annex Canada

[Jersey2]

First, Turkey blackmailed the US at the start of the war in Iraq. Your leaders wanted to charge outrageous amounts of money for the US to transit troops through Turkey to the Iraq boarder. We wanted to open up a second front but had to change plans as the cost was astronomical even for the US. I will never forgive that.

Secondly, Turkey bought the S-400 and wanted F-35s. The S-400 was going to capture data and it would have been sent to Russia. This was agreed to by Turkey and Russia. That data would all them to fine tune their S-400 to shoot down F-35s. So no, you are’t a good Allie as you would screw us over for money.

[Jersey2]

would allow* them

[Asker]

By the way, the Iraq War coincides with the year I was born, but from what I see, the parliamentary decision at that time was because they wanted to compensate in advance for the heavy economic losses they would suffer again (due to the embargoes on Iraq in the First Gulf War), such as the halt in trade, the impact on tourism, and increased security costs. Countries should prioritize their own people's interests. I see nothing wrong with this decision.

Regarding the other point you mentioned, that Türkiye wasn't given F-35s because it bought S-400s—yes, what you're saying is logical. However, what led Türkiye to buy the S-400s was that it was forced to do so because the Obama administration did not sell them Patriot air defense systems. You can listen to Trump's statement [https://www. youtube. com/watch? v=PAxm3GF7jTQ] after the 3:00 minute mark.

[Asker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAxm3GF7jTQ

[Asker]

When it comes to the result, Türkiye bought the S-400s, but after sanctions rained down on it like lightning, it didn't even activate them. As of now, it has its own defense system. A bad ally makes you a "homeowner"

Also, if the F-35s weren't given because of the S-400s, then why did the EU countries make a Eurofighter deal? Isn't Russia an enemy of the EU as well?

Despite this, the current Erdoğan government is constantly trying to get closer to the US, as if it has "fallen in love with its executioner."

America gave weapons to terrorist organizations that want to divide Türkiye. As if that wasn't enough, it did not extradite Fethullah Gülen, a high-level terrorist leader, to Türkiye. Whereas Türkiye, for example, had handed over Brunson.

We are not allies. This is not what an alliance is. Russia and China are better allies than the US; at least they don't create obstacles.

[Jersey2]

Ukraine was once an Allie of Russia. And the Philippines and Vietnam bit learned what kind of Allie China is. Good luck.

[Asker]

Turks generally like Americans and believe America is the "right path" but American governments have often preferred to be like "Backstabbers" appearing as allies while trying to stir up trouble within Turkey.

​Looking on the bright side, these arms embargoes forced Turkey to develop its domestic defense systems. Back when Turkey couldn't make UAVs (drones) and SİHAs armed drones, America wouldn't provide them. This time, they produced them domestically via their defense industry.
​I hope the same happens with the aircraft, the 5th generation Kaan jet.
​god bles you america.

[Jersey2]

I have been to Turkey and enjoyed it, except when I got pickpocketed. But buying the S-400 when told not to was a big mistake. Russia requires the data sent back to them. We could not let them get that data as the whole West could have fallen without the F-35s. Russia would have sold it to China as well. No doubt someone in Turkey would have sold that data. I am happy Turkey is with us in Nato. I will come back to Istanbul for travels.

[Dargil]

Since you a failed to identify yourself here I expect you are probably a propaganda bot.

[Asker]

I didn't introduce myself bc these are sensitive topics. Also, I'm not a bot. If u don't have an explanation for the topic, don't comment, man.

[Dargil]

I did.

[Anonymous]

Lol, the US doesn't have allies anymore. The world is pretending to be good palls with them, while they take steps to not have to rely the slightest on the US. As soon as that is done, I think the US will be getting the 🖕 from many. We done getting involved with the shit wars they start while they pretend being our saviours.

[Jackblue]

If Turkey wants to be a US ally they should start by apologizing to Israel.

[Asker]

Why should one apologize to Israel? Does US == Israel?

Besides, why apologize to a country that, instead of killing terrorists, is committing genocide against 3 million Palestinians, has killed 70,000 people, is trying to destroy all of them if it could, and has attacked Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Iran just to satisfy its own fantasies in the Middle East?

[Jackblue]

Pray tell, how is Israel supposed to kill terrorists, who hide in civilian infrastructure constantly. Shall Israeli march down the streets to find the hiding Hamas terrorists losing ten Israeli soldiers for every member of Hamas they kill. All of those countries have sought to destroy Israel. And several have openly discriminated against Jews. It is not illegal to convert to Islam in Israel, it is illegal to convert to Judaism or Christianity in many Muslim nations.

[Asker]

Okay, Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Israel was right to attack in self-defense, but were torturing the Palestinian people, disciplining them with hunger, and killing children, the elderly, and women also part of the operation? Sorry, but you have no defensible side. The justifications for attacking Qatar and Iran are absurd. We saw at the United Nations how supposedly right they were. Their goal is not peace in the Middle East, but to destabilize all the countries in their surroundings and establish their own hegemony. Their goals do not seem very realistic either.

[Jackblue]

Hunger is because food shipments are often carrying weapons, Israel has to inspect them all. Aid is being looted Israel has to stop that. The children and elderly are being killed because they are in buildings and camps were hamas fighters are. Qatar is where the leaders of Hamas live. Iran has long been giving aid to Hamas. The UN has always been anti-Israel even though before the current conflict palestinian casulties were comparatively light for a conflict this long and intense (they are still much lighter than the Sudan and Yemen).