If its principles were better understood, would a majority of Americans embrace democratic socialism? PLEASE define YOUR understanding before answer?

[DrPepper12]

If you would like to see how Democratic Socialists define themselves:

Democratic socialism is a political ideology that advocates for a democratic political system alongside a socially-owned or controlled economy, where the means of production are managed by the public or workers to meet social needs rather than private profit. It seeks to combine the principles of democracy, such as individual freedoms and multi-party elections, with a fundamental transformation of the economy.

Core Principles

Political Democracy: Upholds civil liberties, freedom of speech and assembly, and free elections within a multi-party system.

Economic Democracy/Social Ownership: Believes the economy should be democratically run. This can take various forms, including public utilities, government-owned industries, or worker-managed cooperatives, to ensure resources benefit the community as a whole.

Social Welfare: Strongly supports robust social safety nets and universal access to essential services like healthcare and education, funded through progressive taxation.

Reduced Inequality: Aims to significantly minimize wealth disparity and ensure a basic standard of living for all citizens.

Feature Democratic Socialism:

Economic Goal Seeks a systemic transformation to replace capitalism with a post-capitalist socialist economy. Works within a reformed capitalist framework, aiming to mitigate its negative effects through regulation and a strong welfare state.

View of Capitalism Critical of capitalism, seeing it as inherently incompatible with true freedom and equality in the long term. Accepts a mixed-market economy, using government intervention to protect consumers and establish social programs.

Examples of Policies and Figures

Universal healthcare

Free tuition at public colleges

Strong labor unions and workers' rights

Aggressive climate action and public investment in renewable energy

Increased taxes on the wealthy and corporations

Yes.

No.

This is nuanced. Here's my take...

[msmissydc]

I guess for americans the name is the main problem.
My definition is the objective one. I dont use my subjective definitions for objective concepts.
This is a good basic read.
(2011). Democratic socialism. In G. T. Kurian (Ed.) The Encyclopedia of Political Science (pp. 402-402). CQ Press, https//doi. org/10.4135/9781608712434. n399


Its crazy howlpeople say socialism is equal to communism.
Its even crazier when the same people than argue that nazi where socialist.
The craziest part about all of that is, that exactly the same people defend nationalism even though that was the nazis main thing.
I am mot defending nazis. Quite the opposite. I say they are the worst and that was partially because of fascism and nationalism. Something t at the U. s experiencing at the moment inside turbo capitalism. So obviously socialism wasn't the main part nor the deciding part.


Socialism can easily work in a democracy. Classes are not necessary for democracy they often restric it even.


Next argument, socialism never worked and it never will.
Counter argument where did capitalism succeed?
So far most people in a capitalist society are mainly able to live because they are supported by the few socialist ideas that still exist in their respective society. So socialism is saving most people from capitalism.

[msc545]

I like the last sentence of this a great deal.

[chrissykerdock]

socialism doesn't work never has never will

[DrPepper12]

Define it first

[chrissykerdock]

all the places that had it ever all failed

[OneViewpoint]

It's nuanced. I look at Democratic Socialism more as a set of guidelines than a math book.

• There are certain things that should never be in the hands of private enterprise in a "for profit" Capitalist system. The potential for abuse is too great and/or the private sector is not equipped to fund or manage it. Things like the military, the courts, prisons, the food supply, some infrastructure, healthcare, education, a basic social safety net.
• But I do believe that Capitalism works as a basic economic system for most commerce. Capitalism does distribute capital efficiently. And it does provide incentive for innovation and risk. However only if the system is tightly monitored and regulated by a strong central government to prevent the wealthy from hoarding the nation's wealth and essentially buying the government. The job of government is to ensure a level playing field. That doesn't work with dark money in politics and no term limits on bought and paid for politicians.
• Democratic Socialism just says we agree to vote on what's in the basic social safety net and what can be open to private for profit enterprise. And those votes get people elected who are NOT in the pockets of the Koch Brothers, Jeff Bezos, Rupert Murdoch, Elon Musk, Harlan Crowe, Mark Zuckerberg, or Jamie Dimon.

[loveslongnails]

Since the USA was founded strictly on Capitalism and Elitism, it was crucial to demonize the concept and very mention of Socialism, Communalism (not Communism, but that too), or anything that wasn't "Capitalism". Yet, it embraces many variations of Socialism that it uses to its own advantage.

It's ironic that people here in the USA think Capitalism has done them so damn much good when a full 20% of Americans live at, below, or just above poverty level. The average family has less than $7,500 in savings and could only exist for 3 months without income.

But hey, Capitalism is great if you're one of the elite. Keep those hamsters on the treadmill, folks.

[DrPepper12]

Amen. They love their oppressors.

[exitseven]

No socialism can be described in flowery language and it makes it look like it will be something that will help everyone.

In reality all this says is that you are taking away from people that have worked hard and have managed to become successful and are giving it to other people who do not work and participate in the system.

It eliminates incentive to work and over a short period of time the people that have to pay for the party have left for greener pastures and after the money runs out the rest of the population will start feeding on each other.

This is what happens with socialism, EVERY SINGLE TIME>

[seeyounexttuesday]

sorry man, but one of the mods is having a temper tantrum. As I said in my original reply "Is democratic rape ok?". Putting the word "democratic" in front of a shitty thing to do doesn't make it magically non shitty.

[DrPepper12]

@seeyounexttuesday @exitseven I'll let Scandanvia know

[msc545]

You literally have never been educated enough to be able to tell the difference between socialism and communism. And you have never been educated as to what socialism really is. And you think that socialism is both an economic and political system. You don't realize that it's only an economic system and has nothing to do with politics directly at all.

And you will say the same things you said in your last post about socialism EVERY SINGLE TIME, no matter what anybody says to you or tries to correct you.

This is what happens with really successful propaganda campaigns EVERY SINGLE TIME. IGNORANCE.

[msc545]

Yes, let's be sure and let the Swedes, the Norwegians, and the Icelandic people all know that their systems of socialist economics are failing. I am sure they will wonder what is wrong with us yet again.

[loveslongnails]

" Socialism is a system that advocates and advances economic control of industry and production by it's workers, and not by private capitalists".

So for example, the owner of Bob's Red Mill recently turned 81 and handed over more than 1/3 of the company to his employees in stock options. Had it been 100% of the companies operations, that would be pure socialism. The workers, or employees, would control the production of the company's product. They would elect officers, make their own rules and by-laws, determine wages, decide how to distribute profits presuming there were profits, and so on. The difference is no one single man or group of investors controls the organization, the employees do via their representatives.

You were GROOMED to think that socialism means YOU go to work 60 hours a week and the guy who doesn't work at all, or works 20 hours a week, gets to live in the same house as you, or gets the same car as you, or gets the same WAGE as you. That's not what it means at all.

You schmucks on the right keep saying "Socialism fails every time", blah, bullshit, blah, and think you're smart. But you're not, because there has never BEEN a truly socialist full society in an industrialized setting. It's ALWAYS BEEN and still are, authoritarian dictatorships that CALL themselves "socialists" or "communists" or wtf they want, but they're nothing except dictators.

Just like your hero poses as a "capitalist businessman who cares about the people who work for him", he's really nothing but a grifting Oligarch who profits off of people like you while selling you a bag of shit, that you willingly buy. He's Capitalism at its worst; pure greed, and you cheer it on. LOL

[loveslongnails]

LMFAO I don't know what the hell you think you're describing, but that's not socialism. What YOU'RE describing is the thing you've been GROOMED TO BELIEVE is Socialism, by Capitalists. It does NOTHING of the sort of what you describe. So here's your simple dumbed down definition, that even you can grasp (hopefully):

[msc545]

Very well said. Thank you

[loveslongnails]

@msc545 Yes, he doesn't realize there's never been a WHOLLY socialist society, or understand what "Democratic Socialism" means. He also doesn't realize that social "ism" extends beyond workers having control of production (most often associated with Marxism strictly speaking), but it also means the existence of "social programs" specifically designed to lift people OUT of poverty, not keep them in it. It begins with truth in education, rather than inundation in propaganda.

[exitseven]

My grand parents came from Finland. They never wanted to talk about the old country.

[loveslongnails]

So what. You answered like a dementia ridden Trumper. Learn wtf socialism really is before you spew about its failures. THAT'S the point.

[Spencer10]

No I would not support this. I support a hybrid system. Some services like defense, judicial, healthcare, infrastructure, education and energy are best controlled by the government. Other services via free enterprise. Free enterprise can generate efficiencies most governments cannot. Yet essential services must be government controlled to prevent the inevitable bias and corruption the profit motive can create.

[msc545]

It's nice to see that in your last sentence you finally admitted that bias and corruption are the byproducts of a capitalist system. Aren't those sufficient reasons not to implement or tolerate this?

[Spencer10]

@msc545 Capitalism with limits and oversight.

[msc545]

The problem is that capitalism is highly subject to corruption. People become wealthier and wealthier and as they do they are able to essentially buy politicians and regulators and in the end own the very mechanisms that regulate their behavior. There is nothing to stop them from doing this since they have more money than The regulators and ab almost irresistible ability to corrupt them completely using bribery.

[Spencer10]

@msc545 Thats why you need oversight. Strictly enforced.

[msc545]

Here in the U. S., I think we have found that money will literally buy damn near anything, including legislatures and regulators. Large companies actually budget for this kind of thing. And they get away with it because the people that are supposed to enforce the law against them actually work for them - inadvertently, perhaps, but still work for them. This is the corrosive effect of capitalism, where wealth is concentrated in a few hands. Those hands have the ability to essentially tweak and distort the entire system. And they do that to benefit themselves.

[msc545]

Is there any problems with Democratic socialism at all? The major problem is that it does not pander to the greedy among Us and that is a big problem because the greedy among Us are constantly screaming and demanding their own share and much more of everything. I see no reason why we should cater to them but apparently some very loud other people do. Even here on gag.

[msc545]

Even more, Americans have been heavily conditioned to be unable to tell the difference between Socialism and Communism. Communism, deservedly or not, has a very nasty history of being heavily authoritarian, which disturbs most Americans.

Interestingly, Trumpism, which is also heavily authoritarian, doesn't seem to disturb quite a few Americans. I do not see the difference between the two, actually, but apparently, most Americans have never made that connection.

Socialism, however, is an economic system, not a political one. It is entirely possible to have socialism and still choose a political system independently. Democracy and socialism can easily co-exist and, in fact, complement each other to a great extent.

You will find that if you suggest a system of socialism to Americans, the great majority of them will then refer to you as a communist, being literally unable to tell the difference. More than anything else, this speaks of the effectiveness of the American propaganda system for the last hundred years or so. It does not speak to the reality of this belief.

[Anonymous]

socialism only sounds good on paper but sucks in practice

[FunkyMonkee]

No. Other countries HAVE proven IT DOESN'T WORK!!

[Danzigdawson]

Such as?

[DrPepper12]

I'll let Scandanvia know... JFC

[Danzigdawson]

@FunkyMonkee No one ever loses debating you. You're too much of a stupid emotional wreck.

trump always begs money from idiots like you and idiots like you are always more than happy to oblige.

Social democracy and communism are not the same thing, my dear old FuckeeDonkey.

[Ariesman81]

You know what else tastes sweet... antifreeze.

[DrPepper12]

Touché. GREAT line!!!