When did the American spirit, optimism, and dream really die?

[IHaveRespawned]

For me, I always claimed 2008 marked the worst and sharpest death spiral in the US, morally, ethically, and in a self-sustainability sort of way.

But I can imagine there were also steep declines long before this. Many claim it was 9/11 that was the pivotal downhill slide. I can see that too.

Some claim the 90s were the last decent time. For me, the early-to-mid 2000s were like an extension of the 90s in terms of culture and societal conditions.

But many also feel things were getting bad even as far back as the 70s.

Many feel the introduction to modern conveniences, for example, the interstate highway system and the decline of cross-country small highways, caused people to take the smaller, simpler things of life for granted. Smartphones are another example. Many feel we have become so accustomed and lost on modern conveniences and the fast pace of life, that we have lost touch with tradition, hard work, and patience.

When did the sense of prosperity and opportunity for average Americans start to fade?

[exitseven]

I see it making a comeback. Young people are becoming patriotic and many are returning to the church. TPUSA has formed a couple of thousand new chapters in high schools nad colleges all over the country since the murder of Charlie Kirk.

President Trump's America First policies seem to be working and once again there is a feeling of optimism among most citizens. I think American's best days are ahead.

[IHaveRespawned]

I sure hope so

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[darkcloud1945]

It really took off with Senior Sleepy Joe disregarding all laws and rules and the rise of THE DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST PARTY in the guise of the THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

[sage2021]

It was when Joe Biden became president of the United States.

That's when everyone in the Democratic party divided America 🇺🇸 in half. And it's still this way to this day!

The Democrats started their hidden agenda until Sleepy Joe 😴 💤 was elected President.

Then they crazies came out of the woodwork and started WOKE, transgenderism, Karen's, opening up the border and letting millions of illegal aliens into America. 🇺🇸 They are still here and still causing a bunch of 💩!!

[Miristheiss]

1965 mass immigration act passes. Years later the affects of balkanization of the culture kick in.

Effects of the sexual revolution kick in after the 70s. Stable families die out, promiscuity and selfish hedonism kick in. No fault divorce kicks in too.

Faith dies out and atheism starts kicking in. A belief in God dies out so people pit their faith in pleasure, hedonism, government marxism and government promised utopia if we put our faith in government.

All these things started brewing in mass in the 60s and 70s... the country rotting from within but self induced wounds.

[Jersey2]

Obama brought in Identity Politics that divided us. To keep us divided to secure voting blocks, hate was taught. Hate of other people, hate of the country, hate of different economic groups… hate. Teachers have been pouring on negativity about the country and their own students chances instead of being positive and encouraging.

On top of that now, we have actual thieves in government and organized groups of thieves stealing money and benefits makes it harder on everyone. We have foreign governments and far left & right creating chaos with misinformation via social media.

[Spencer10]

This is an interesting question. Thank you. I thought about this and decided that there was still hope for the USA after events like 9/11, 2008, and the Pandemic But the USA spirit really died when Trump was elected for the 2nd time. 77 million Americans and plus ones that chose not to vote allowed a racist. morally corrupt individual back into power ( AGAIN) knowing full well what he was like and what he would do. Without question the entire world saw what America had become that day. .

[IHaveRespawned]

So I will explain my point of view. You are 33, so I assume you were born in the early 1990s? I am a 1994 baby, also known as a "Zillennial." My memories were very fuzzy and fragmented all the way up until the late 90s.

I had mental illness and was on the Autistic Spectrum ever since I was a young child. I wasn't diagnosed with Aspergers, however, until I was 14. But as a young child, I had my fair share of issues, including severe separation anxiety and speech issues, where I underwent speech therapy. I can say teachers back then were very intolerant of those who had social or emotional issues, almost borderline abusive. I had teachers and daycare workers grab me by the arm and bury their fingernails into my skin, leaving marks. I had a daycare worker shake me when I was crying. The knowledge, accomodation, and special consideration of those with disabilities in the classroom were really in the developmental phase. Then you had the whole ADHD awareness era and the era where they heavily medicated kids. But overall, in the late 90s and well into the 2000s, life was simpler. We had an emergence of more-modern technology, but it didn't dominate our lives. Kids would still go outside and play when they got bored playing their video games. There was organic social interaction. There was still decorum and manners, and the upper-middle-class family communities were still thriving.

When 9/11 happened, I saw a pendulum swing where from that point forward, and there was an overwhelming fear of liability, excessive precautions, and we were at a point where teachers were fearful to hug their students in fear of being accused of misconduct and there were crackdowns on fieldtrips

[IHaveRespawned]

Continuing... but one thing I really took notice to was the outpouring of patriotism of support for our first responders, whether that be our firefighters, police officers, or EMS personnel. I felt our respect for our heroes was at its highest then. Overtime, something happened and that outpouring of support diminished so badly, now as we stand today, we are in the midst of a nationwide volunteer firefighter shortage. First responders are being ridiculed, attacked, and placed on the backburner by policymakers. EMS and firefighters especially have been placed on a backburner and almost to the point of being ignored. It is a very sad situation.

But anyways, when the 2008 housing market crash and the Great Recession hit, our nation has never been the same. It has been a sharp, downwards spiral from there. The Obama era brought aggressive and divisive identity politics where identity politics was weaponized by the left. The destructive "Politically Correct" culture movement took a strong hold, causing division among nearly all classes of people. Everyone is glued to their phones now. Organic conversation and interaction has disappeared along with "third places".

[IHaveRespawned]

But continuing again, the Biden regime I felt really finished us off further, being even more divisive social engineering practices; weaponizing identity politics even further; introducing harmful Critical Race Theory in facets of government, schools, and workplaces; and opening the floodgates for millions upon millions of illegal aliens from broken nations, costing taxpayers billions and threatening public safety and infrastructure. While fire departments and emergency services agencies were already in a crisis post-COVID, they became strained and butchered even more. Meanwhile, our sitting president at the time, Biden, was in severe cognitive decline. The left and the biased left media attempted to cover it up. But instead of taking action, they attempted to promote him for a second term despite his rapidly declining health. Then once it was convenient to the Democrats after the party's primary elections already took place, they then decided to install Kamalatoe and Tampon Timmy despite the fact voters had already voted. This was strategically orchestrated, and I am surprised the leftists and Democrats are not outraged over this.

[Anonymous]

It was a slow and painful death but I'd say the poison needle penetrated the skin on 1913 with the rise of the federal reserve, Dodge v. Ford and the federal income tax.

Every social program like the New Deal and the Great Society just brought the venom further along the veins.

That combined with the infiltration of communist propaganda, exposed by ex-KGB Yuri Besminov, has really been wreaking havoc on the American dream.

Feminism also played a role as they convinced generations of women that being a mother is the worst fate a woman can have and that having a career is far better. Doubling the workforce and raising the cost of things like housing due to the expectation that both the husband and wife are working.

[Dargil]

It began in the anti-war, civil Rights 1960s. It took until Richard Nixon's election for the Democrats together themselves together and focus on destroying the country. Bill Clinton did not do that much against the country because he was too busy getting blown.

[msc545]

I think All this started when opportunity for Americans began to diminish. Thanks to Reagan and then further on thanks to Trump. Perhaps even earlier when American industry decided to start the war in Vietnam so they could make more even more money. It's been one war after another ever since then. All to enrich wealthy Americans.

[IHaveRespawned]

Don't forget to mention Obama and especially Biden. The entire PC culture garbage really took off during the Obummer regime. Identity politics, racial and ethnic entitlement junkies, and divisive identity politics really took hold. The race card was weaponized, and traditional norms were under scrutiny. Meanwhile, during Trump's first term, the biased media would not let go of their Trump-hating propaganda, manufacturing a false "civil rights crisis". You had mobs burning cities, overtaking streets, threatening innocent bystanders, homes, and businesses. Then, to finish us off, the Xiden regime unleashed a hoard of millions of illegal aliens from broken nations, while leftists accused those in opposition of being "racist" and "xenophobic". See, the left loved to weaponize their identity politics and to lower the moral of the average, everyday American.

[msc545]

Also, when deranged idiots start referring to the "Democratic Communist Party", As if such a thing even existed.

[IHaveRespawned]

It did. Not in the form of an official name, but the "Democrat" party shifted so far left in such an extremist fashion, you can say they were communists in disguise.

[msc545]

No, actually, the Democratic Party is pretty much centrist. It is the Republican Party, looking from their view at the far Nazi-like right that believes that the Democratic Party could be communists in disguise.

[CuriousMufuxka]

I say the late 90's. Funny enough it was around the time that computers and internet became a whole lot cheaper and available.

[IHaveRespawned]

Yeah, I can envision the cubicle, desk-jockey, paper-pusher kind of life with those big ass copy machines and dot matrix printers. You know, the depressing and souless corporate jobs that were thriving back then where bosses ruled with an iron fist. The kind of jobs my father worked that were satire on movies like Office Space.

[CuriousMufuxka]

Yeah I'm gonna need those TPS reports and that stapler..

[LazerBean]

It hasn't. Plenty of Americans are still living full lives that are better than they could have ever achieved in any other country because of the opportunities and freedoms that America provides.

[IHaveRespawned]

A cost of a new home today far outpaces salaries and wages. Younger generations are feeling discouraged. A major disruption in the labor market has stable, full-time employment difficult to obtain. Gig economies are becoming more prevalent, but they are not stable in consistency. I am a strong supporter of entrepreneurship and small, private sector business, although the bar has been substantially raised and getting a stable footing into anything is much more challenging.

I am only doing fine right now because I live in my parents' home with my wife, as my parents are separated and live elsewhere. I feel ashamed knowing the only reason I have this living arrangement is because my parents are divorcing, but at the same time I am not advocating for divorce either. I can tell my wife has not been as happy with me since we have been married, but maybe it is all in my head. Of course, I also feel that low self esteem hanging on my shoulder, as I feel my marriage and myself rely on benevolence of others.

In my spare time as I am disabled, I am working with legislators to improve fire and emergency services in Tennessee. Despite being disabled, I am still contributing to society in ways others don't think about or have time to do.

[LazerBean]

All of my friends that are 24+ are married, pay for their own housing, and have stable jobs. One couple actually just bought a house in one of the most expensive towns in our state. The only exceptions are brothers who can't handle being told what to do and are too lazy to keep a job, and another set of siblings that are liberals. What is the common denominator between all of them? Being lazy and whiney.

[IHaveRespawned]

I am not lazy by any means. I have held 25 jobs in a span of 15 years. I didn't decide to just lay down until recently, when Social Security was threatening to take my disability benefits and Medicare away due to too many work attempts. I was very career-minded, even as a child. I feel incredibly disappointed. I wanted to thrive and achieve.

[LazerBean]

Having 25 jobs in 15 years shows that something about you and jobs is not compatible. Maybe you aren't lazy, maybe you're just a bad worker and that's why they don't want to keep you around. Either way, that problem is specific to you.

[MrChinaski]

I think you would benefit from a tighter definition. The 'dying' of what do you personally care about? As an outsider, I've always seen rebirth in the USA, so perhaps the issue for you is what replaced the 'dying'? etc. etc.

[abc3643]

It began to die the day Ronald Reagan became President.

[IHaveRespawned]

Please elaborate why you believe that

[abc3643]

This is somewhat hard to explain because you are young and, unfortunately, there's a difference between learning history versus living through it in which 1) your memory becomes burned with critical events from the past and, in particular, the emotions of the people during those times and 2) seeing the sequence of cause-and-effect event over decades.

You deserve a much more detailed answer and I don't have the 2+ hours right now to craft that sequence of cause-and-effect events, so I will try to give you a fuzzy Power Point version.

In the 1970s, there was a terrible pall over life in the US. Lots of self-doubt and lack of optimism as things were pretty shitty through much of the decade especially toward the end. Ronald Reagan was, in a sense, like Trump. A bullshit artist. Ronnie basically was like "Let's go back the 1950s when things were good! (and everybody was White, minorities were not seen or discussed, and women were subservient and boys didn't have long hair)." In short, if you're feeling like shit and somebody says "C'mon! Let's go to this party! Who cares if it's going to cost you a lot of money and your soul?" And people fell for it and elected Ronald Reagan in a landslide in 1980. It's totally understandable; the Carter Administration seemed too ineffectual and Ronnie offered something different. Indeed, Trump does remind me a bit of Ronnie these days.

OK, now, here's what you need to know about Reagan's early years. There's a lot of know, really - it's practically the stuff of fiction - but I'll get to the key points...

(more)

[abc3643]

The US military did need to be bolstered - even I admit that - and that resulted in a large amount of deficit spending. This is something that conservatives are normally anathema to, but, the US basically borrowed to 1) improve the military and 2) give tax breaks. But, also, it loosened regulations on businesses. At first, there was a recession but this wasn't the GOP's fault; it was the fault of Fed Chair Paul Voelker who slaughtered the rampant inflation of the 1970s - a large part of the problems back then. What Voelker did during the end of the Carter years led to the pain of recession, but it did kill inflation. Combine that with GOP deficit spending, and the economy recovers quickly. Remember that party analogy? Well, that's what happened... we got a party, but the price... well, that's what you're paying now... (and a big reason I didn't have kids). Also, though, there was the PATCO strike in August 1981 in which Reagan fired air traffic controllers. He was right to do so on legal grounds, but what this did was destroy unions. The American labor market has never been the same.

In short, Reagan set the table for the death of the middle class with the rich getting richer (after all, they funded his campaign) and the poor getting poorer. Thus, we have the current "Affordability Crisis".

Take a look at a chart of the US wealth gap over the past 50 years or so... What you will see is a sudden shift when Reagan became President. It would show that the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

[abc3643]

I misspelled "Voelker"; it's "Volcker".

You deserve to see the true cause and effect chain including some important details I left out.
That would take hours to create and, really, it begins at the end of WW 2.

[IHaveRespawned]

"Let's go back the 1950s when things were good! (and everybody was White, minorities were not seen or discussed, and women were subservient and boys didn't have long hair)."

Some of these things are actually good things, others you wildly overexaggerated.

I grew up in predominantly white, upper-middle-class communities. These communities were well taken care of, safe, family-friendly, and orderly communities. The worst you would have are teenage punks who would get into some mischief or vandalize something.

I don't think minorities should be ignored, but we all know that predominantly black neighborhoods (and minority communities) are riddled with crime, thuggery, and violence. Everyone always wants to blame the white man for the minority's problems, but these crime-striken communities and the criminality within is never being blamed and the criminals are not being held accountable. The left's game is to always blame the white man. This is just self-defeating ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with masculinity either. And the left's attack on masculinity is another problem. The example of getting rid of the BOY Scout name in and of itself should tell you something. A well known institution over 100 years old has been "wokified".

[abc3643]

I grew up in the same environment you did albeit decades earlier.
I don't exaggerate anything really although, I guess, I may have used some snarky hyperbole... but, unspoken, what I said was true. This goes back to the 1960s when Johnson passed the Voting Rights Act of 1965 in which he predicted "I have lost the South for a generation" or something like that. The GOP took advantage of this with "The Southern Strategy" employed by Nixon in 1968 and the GOP every since... Lee Atwater explained in in 1981...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8E3ENrKrQ

[genericname85]

over the last decade when everyone including the national government was living more and more on borrowed money and before an entire nation forgot how to household with finances.

[FreyaRed]

Dreams are illusions, that's why they are called dreams.

[DonaldDarko]

The real decline started with the federal reserve. Get a copy of None Dare Call it Conspiracy.

[jshm2]

There never really was one. It was a sham all along.

[Alex-Snow]

During the January 6 riots on our Capitol buiding

[IHaveRespawned]

Lol, you leftists want to cling to the Jan 6 incident so hard, but you never take accountability for the George Floyd riots, the Kenosha riots, the Seattle riots, the Los Angeles riots, or any moronic actions you all have taken part in, including but not limited to burning of cars, harassment of strangers you suspect are "Nazis", busting into churches to aggressively taunt congregants, vandalizing statues, hurling moltov cocktails at law enforcement officers, storming the Minnesota state Capitol, taking over street blocks and forming ridiculous lawless "societies" like the CHOP zone, among other stupid nonsense.

[noohair]

It is the negativity of tribalism that you feel. The Professional Political Overseer Class promotes a tribal mentality to make humans easier to control. It is the divide and conquer principle.

[captain_voidwalker]

Long before you were born in 1913 when the federal reserve act passed

[Massageman]

Late 60's started the fade, amplified by the 70's.

[Danzigdawson]

It died on November the 8th, 2016.

[IHaveRespawned]

When all the leftist lunatics and sore losers were rioting because of Trump's win? Maybe.

I think it goes much farther back. The Great Recession and the rise of Obama-era identity politics, the "Politically Correct"/PC police movement, leftist social engineering practices, and all the leftist race-baiting and hostility towards white men.

[Danzigdawson]

What you're talking about is not "when the American spirit and optimism died": it's when white supremacists started to panic and shit their panties because Obama's election made them realize that they weren't the self-crowned kings of the world they thought they were.

[IHaveRespawned]

Personally, if Obama and the leftists didn't weaponize the race card, didn't shove socialism in our faces, and weren't crooked leftists period, there wouldn't be as much division and polarization as there is now.

The problem wasn't so much his skin color, it was the fact it was used as a weapon and used in a way that emphasized race and differences. Instead of colorblindness it became a separator.

You leftist retards forget that there were other reasons besides skin color (you all want to claim) as to why the Obummer era was disastrous.

[Anonymous]

During the Obama regime

[beefcakebradybatson]

It's never existed for us blacks.

[Pterodon]

Under biden