Would you refuse a direct order you believed was morally wrong?

[lightbulb27]

[Cyfris]

I would. It would have to be for a damn good reason. Like better then most people are expecting. I have lines I wouldn't cross but in war I am sure they are far fewing than at starbucks for lunch. And certainly would never hold it against someone who doesn't have the same lines. War is a terrible thing. Unlike any other in it's ability to effect a person from what I can understand of my research and from what my grandfather told me of his experiences in world war2. I wish less people were in those situations to have to make those choices in the first place.

[msc545]

No, I wouldn't refuse the order. Although following it would make me probably uncomfortable for the rest of my life. I wouldn't refuse it because those above me would make my life a screaming misery over it and perhaps throw me in prison or even execute me for not following it. It wouldn't matter them that it was illegal.

[lightbulb27]

I'm shocked at your answer.

[msc545]

It's called being practical and preserving my life. Is there a problem with that?

[lightbulb27]

I figured you'd stand on the higher ground, not submit to what perceived as evil. You are choosing selfish over "right".
But it also makes sense.
I wonder what would change your view. All views are changeable.

[msc545]

I don't think that choosing to preserve my own life and choosing to preserve the quality of my life constitutes selfishness. I would prefer to call it enlightened self-interest. I think the only thing that would change my views regarding this would be if I perceived that following orders would make my life so miserable as not to be worth living. In this case, the way you have proposed your hypothetical, the opposite would actually be true.

[msc545]

There is also a cogent argument to be made that by essentially ending my life by defying orders, I would be prevented from doing good for others, and that that might be more costly morally than following the orders, doing what I was told to do, and then trying to make up for it for a very long time afterward.

[msc545]

I forgot to tell you, this is an absolutely terrific question. I appreciate the fact that you posted it.

[lightbulb27]

Thank you, appreciate the complement. I like to challenge my own brain sometimes, and explore my own inner strength, that's the reason for posting. Anyone can get caught in a terrible set of choices.
Update: There was one soldier, African American, that shot himself in the foot during the murderous rampage, so he didn't have to shoot (rape, etc..) the others as ordered. That is another reaction to the "fight/flight" they'd face. What a terrible situation those kids had to deal with, on both sides.
A really good war movie if you care to see showing courage in the face of convictions is Hacksaw Ridge. True story, I recommend, if you like that kinda thing.

[msc545]

So he essentially chose to injure himself instead of injuring others. I wonder what the reaction of his superiors was to that behavior? If you know? Thank you for the recommendation of Hacksaw Ridge. I believe in the past I have seen it, but I am certainly going to see it again after you have recommended it. Thank you.

[lightbulb27]

From AI, so take with a grain of salt as a starting point... as it hallucinates: Yes, Private First Class Herbert Carter shot himself with a 45! That is a very large bullet. He testified at the court martial, was never court martialed for his act and noted:
""I mean, they were just shooting the people down for no reason at all... Some of the guys seemed to be having a lot of fun doing it." Note: There were questions whether drugs were related, a lot of the soldiers had marajuana and others. It's "interesting" history. Me, I avoid drugs! Our brain makes it's own drugs mostly.

Carter lived the rest of his life in Texas and passed away in the late 1990s.
...
Yes lmk what you think as it is a remarkable human story. There's also interviews with the men involved online. Frankly, it's hard to believe.

[msc545]

I suspect that if he were to do this today, he would be court-martialed for damaging government property. I say this with all seriousness.

[FreyaRed]

No. I would just ask for more money or better rank if I had to live with the moral "burden" after committing war crimes.

[Agape93]

Yeap

[lightbulb27]

you definitely march to your own drummer, that's good. Whom or what would you say is in control of the trigger finger, ultimately?

[Agape93]

Me. Only one other person can use me as a weapon, and his control of me supercedes my own.

[lightbulb27]

humm... who that?

[Agape93]

My best friend.

[lightbulb27]

It is good to have friends! I applaud you both finding each other.

[DonaldDarko]

Not sure why these murdering freaks wanted to disintegrate a bunch of women. Probably it came from the Vietnamese government. They would say if they aren't our enemies now, they will be. US commanders just did what they told them. So many psychopaths drooling on their shoes. War is a playground for people like that.

[KostasKouvalis]

I did at work all the time, something like this, most certainly. I don't think I'd be able to kill innocent people and live with myself. Only time I might obey it, is if my own life or my family's life was in danger.

I'm shocked by some of the answers.

But you see MAGAS, you see? THESE are your beloved veterans?

[AviatorTom]

It would depend on the situation. If my morally wrong action helped save lives, I would carry it out.

[Spencer10]

I would like to think I would. But life is not always black and white. Especially combat.

[MrChinaski]

Everybody says they would; almost nobody does.

[slatyb]

Yes, unless the penalty for refusing is death.

[NathanDavis]

I would refuse it, and challenging it too

which is one of the reasons why they told me I would be just great, but not really... for the Navy, lmfao

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I can't realistically project into this situation at all, it's really really too far from anything I know.

[Lliam]

Yes. It's my nature.

[Anonymous]

Yes Sir I would but I would also go to the ranking officer 👮 and ask him.

[msc545]

What would you ask?

[Opinion Owner]

@msc545 I would ask the reason for doing something morally wrong

[msc545]

Would that change or just delay your decision?

[Opinion Owner]

@msc545 no it’s wrong

[msc545]

What is wrong?

[Opinion Owner]

@msc545
You

[Pterodon]

Morally wrong? No I wouldn’t.

[OneViewpoint]

Nope.

[OneViewpoint]

Oh crap, I misread the question. Yes I would refuse to carry out a direct order that was illegal or morally wrong.

[Anonymous]

Yes and accept the consequences

[FunkyMonkee]

Yes!