About the whole gaza thing: who was there first?

[strateguy632]

Whoever governed Gaza first owns it. Agreed? So who? Israel gave Gaza to palestinians in 2005 so that means it is really Israel owned because they governed it first? Before giving?

In 1948 Egypt governed Gaza it had an established border with British Palestine. So is it Egypt owned?

Before Egypt British governed Gaza so they were first but brits gave egypt independence! so AFTER gave we can't say "they had it first.' The families who live in each city rent. Only HALF own land so a million countries in Gaza strip? OR DOES FIRST MEAN 1000 B. C. King solomon?

[Zack-Bann]

It also once belonged to the Ottomans, to the Byzantines, to the Romans, and so on.


Even when God supposedly gave it to Abraham it wasn’t empty, it already belonged to other people: Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, and so on.


The people of the “promise” were not just the Abraham’s jews, the place has been a melting pot of cultures since before recorded history.


So the question “who was there first” is a very poor determinant of who is rightfully the owner


And that same
Logic applies to nearly every inhabited corner of our planet today.
Yet we don’t go around questioning ownership based on historical records anywhere else.


The only true metric of ownership of any land is the ability to defend its borders.
And every time someone tries to go against that natural order, war and tyranny quickly follow.

[strateguy632]

close but no. if nazis invade france and if they held it during d-day that is still stealing not ownership. only in a defensive war is captured land owned by the defender who pushed over the border. as judge stephen explained in the war of israel 1967.

[Zack-Bann]

The franks and Gauls stole the land from the Goths, and the Romans.
There have been germanic tribes there before as well.

You limit rightful ownership to a specific point in time which makes arbitrary and worthless.

I don’t care what some judge said.

When we were discovering fire in African caves all these lands were uninhabited by humans.
We eventually came there and started killing each other over rightful ownership.

And I never once heard about a people who willingly gave away their land because another set of people said THEIR god promised it to them.

If God was a slum lord he would clearly defined the borders he wanted by making them only habitable by one kind of people and not another

The fact that we can physically share every corner of this planet, means we were meant to do so

[RavVid]

Egyptians were early owners Rames III etc but the earliest had to be Natufians 11,000 to 15,000 years ago.

Neanderthals were in the vicinity but only in northern Israel and they weren't proper homo sapiens. Whereas the Natufians were dinkie di sapiens. I presume we are limiting to Homo Sapiens only.

I think we should give it back to the Natufians despite them not existing anymore :) Failing to be able to find any of them, then the Canaanites as they were there 5000 years ago. The Jews where there only from about 100 BC which was a truly pathetic effort on their part since they had been in the area from 2000 BC.

[RavVid]

Thanks for a mho. Revanchism is a lot of fun.

[strateguy632]

close but no. jews were in that jordan river region, between jacob RETURN from aram with his kids the first "sons of israel" around "1750 B. C. when brothers sold Joseph" they were out of the region in Egypt until "1513 B. C. E. Exodus from Egypt" and returned home in "1473 B. C. E. Israel enters Canaan under Joshua" the cananite culture was idols and went extinct. david was king around 1040 B. C. with a dynasty until 600 B. C. so from 2000-1750 israel not born yet. 1750-1500 in egypt. 1500 b. c. had the rulers called judges. so jews had self governance before 1000 or "100 BC"

[Jennz6]

It belongs to Israel, GOD GAVE IT TO THEM

[strateguy632]

From the river of Egypt in south (not named, so probably the major nile, not some unknown stream in Sinai peninsula) to the great river Euphrates to the north in turkey. The ownership deed already exists and one day Arabs will obey it.

[Jennz6]

GOD gave it to Abraham

[strateguy632]

Genesis 15:18 “On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, ‘To your descendants (Isaac in Gen. 25:5 )
I have given this land, from the River of Egypt (southwest including Gaza and Sinai) to the (north border) great river, the Euphrates.’”

[Jennz6]

@strateguy632 you read your Bible too

[strateguy632]

Yup! Not enough but i do.

[Jennz6]

@strateguy632
Thank you so much for the MHO 💯💕

[strawberryapple]

It belongs to Israel.

[strateguy632]

The owner deed is in the christian bible book genesis.

[David318578]

"Whoever governed Gaza first owns it"

Incorrect, the rules of the world has always been whoever can defend the land owns it.

Every piece of land on this world was once owned by some other culture.

[strateguy632]

You mean 'strong enough to steal it'?

[David318578]

Yes, thats how it has always worked. If your strong enough to conquer a territory for its land people and resources then its yours, up until the point someone stronger takes it from you. Go look at ancient maps of the world and you can see how different it was in regards to who "owned" what land.

[strateguy632]

Nope! @David318578 only in DEFENSE wars. As judge Stephen explained "in 1967 Israel fought a defense war therefore territory gained in west bank is legally israel" .

[David318578]

What do you mean nope? If Israel lost that war it would not be Israel anymore.

"Only in Defense" makes no sense because to defend means someone is attacking you.. and if that attacking force wins.. its theirs.. just like I said in my previous reply

[strateguy632]

think about Europe history. germany attacked france if germany steals land it is stealing. but if france pushed them back to the border but germany does not surrender than france can push over the border and the land is french because defense war,

[David318578]

Its not called stealing, the correct word and definition is called conquering. And again if Germany won, then France would be no more and the people there would be speaking German.

When there is a war over land, whoever wins regardless of if it was offensive or defensive side that won... Gets to keep that land. Its how the world has worked for 1000s of years.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

I'd say it's past the point of mattering. Both people have occupied that space for hundreds or thousands of years.

It doesn't really change the situation of one was there first.

[Pterodon]

They didn’t give it to them. The Palestinians were such animals Israel had no choice but to round them up and put a fence around them

[strateguy632]

Woah round them up? Be Careful guy!

[SkimmingDetective]

It's just symbolic. The real quest is much more

[strateguy632]

Vague but you refer to the palestinians chanting "from river to sea palestine will be free' from freedom (none left like sugar free. Just muslim law like the rest of middle east.)

[Godihateyou]

Gaza is for the Christians getting killed in Nigeria and South Africa and America.

[Snakeyes7]

Who cares? Not my land not my problem.

[strateguy632]

who? all those rioters shouting "free palestine" that is who.

[Snakeyes7]

They don't actually care. They are only using it to promote Hamas. As Charlie Kirk said, Islam is the knife the left will use to slit the throat of America.

[QuietRunner]

What about the Ottomans

[strateguy632]

they lost power.