Should America be referred to as "A Nation of Immigrants" or a nation of Citizens?

[RingOfFire]

Why do we so easily accept America being referred to as a "Nation of Immigrants?" Shouldn't it be referred to as a nation of CITIZENS, by and for CITIZENS FIRST before "immigrants?" Since when do immigrants come before citizens? Where in our constitution is that written?

America should be referred to as a nation of IMMIGRANTS.

America should be referred to as a nation of CITIZENS.

[RavVid]

I think you have hit a good point. It has always been assumed that immigrants into US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand would identify with their host nation. But it is becoming more that immigrants see themselves as merely residing in the host country. Particularly Muslim immigrants.

In many respects there is no motivation for immigrants to become citizens as they get most of the benefits from merely residing whilst still keeping their allegiance elsewhere.

So I like your recasting.

[RingOfFire]

That is precisely right. And in light of recent developments in America, where Muslims have been moving in, setting up communities and literally banning any non-Muslim from living there, and in addition shunning US laws in some cases and attempting to supplant them with Sharia law litigated in their own religious courts, I think this country is going to have to have a serious conversation about whether or not the Muslim religion is compatible with America or not.

This is a difficult topic because America has always been about religious tolerance. But it has also always been about Judeo Christian values. Islam, has many parts that fall outside of that value system and we may have to face the reality that it is so disruptive to our cultural essence that it is threat to our very existence as a nation in spite of our tolerant nature. I think some other western countries are already learning this lesson the hard way.

[RavVid]

I've known many Muslims and they have been very good people. But unfortunately the Jihad concept is quite incompatible with the tolerance required in a Western country. It is quite offensive that some Muslims feel that they can demand a conversion to Sharia Law.

It didn't require much thought on their part as to whether they could live in Judeo Christian countries. They even have issues with basic banking and regard any interest charge as sinful usury. In a number of ways they cut themselves out of participating in Western countries but nonetheless are able to feel bitter about that.

We are better off without them. At a point half of Islam was trying to immigrate to Australia which is why we took to interning them on Nauru.

[RingOfFire]

Yes, there are some very good and respectful people who identify as Muslims. I have known a few myself. However there is an internal war going on in the Muslim religion with regard to what constitutes the true religion of Islam. In one respect that isn't very different than most other religions that have their variations and different sects who differ to varying degrees on the tenets of their beliefs. But in one important respect Islam differs. And that is that the Islamic fundamentalists, who adhere to the very intolerant and violent written word of the Koran literally want to murder anyone who doesn't subscribe to their beliefs. And they make up a significant portion of the followers of Islam.

They claim that those who don't behave this way are not real Muslims and are to be murdered along with the rest. They do have a point since their holy book tells them to murder non-believers. So are those who don't adhere to that really Muslims? I don't know and I don't even care. That is for THEM to hash out. The only thing I am interested in is protecting the country and the people that I love from the violence associated with the Muslim religion. I am not interested in theological debate. Let them work that out amongst themselves... but do it somewhere else, not in my country. I have already seen what happens to places in my country when Muslims are allowed to settle there. Just because some of them are good people doesn't mean it is any less of a threat. They bring with them a cancer that endangers the entire country.

[RavVid]

I'd endorse that too. I think it is in Holland that Muslim immigrants formed a pretty dense ghetto. So they decided to destroy the buildings in order to have an excuse to move them out and diffuse them among the general population.

Islam first invaded Europe approx 700 AD and was finally expelled in 1920. And today are trying to enforce their culture onto host nations. Hence Holland and Sweden has found them to be indigestible. The real problem is the Left's hatred of Western culture and support of terrorist Islamic groups.

We've had IRGC operations being conducted and our Left gov't felt it most appropriate to cancel funding for anti-terrorist policing.

[RingOfFire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

[RavVid]

The video puts it well.

I am surprised at the number of people who see the crusades as Christendom invading Islam when the levant etc where Christendom originally having moved on from Roman paganism as the Roman Empire did so.

Even when it is pointed out to them, they still don't accept it. The moral gymnastics are impressive.

Two battles stopped Europe being completely Muslim. Charles Martel The Hammer at Tours. The Polish Winged Hussars at the Siege of Vienna. Had either of these two battles been lost, we'd be Muslim today.

Well worth youtubing these two battles if you aren't familiar with them. Both were lucky wins.

[Tarifa]

If you go back far enough in time, every nation is shaped by migrations. That's part of their history. Your president is the grandson of an illegal immigrant. Grandfather Friedrich fled Germany and was not allowed back in Bavaria for refusing military service.

[strateguy632]

"Not allowed back" is a REAL refugee.

[RingOfFire]

@Tarifa

"Your president is the grandson of an illegal immigrant."

That is a lie. Stop repeating lies on things that you know nothing about. You are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. You are one of communisms "useful idiots."

Donald Trump's grandfather, Friedrich Trump, was not an illegal immigrant to the United States. While his departure from Germany (then the Kingdom of Bavaria) was technically illegal under German law, his entry and residence in the U. S. were entirely legal by the standards of the time.

Key Facts About Friedrich Trump's Immigration
Arrival in the U. S. (1885): At age 16, Friedrich immigrated to New York to avoid mandatory military service in Bavaria. He arrived at Castle Garden, the primary processing center before Ellis Island opened, and was officially recorded as "Friedr. Trumpf".

U. S. Legal Status: At that time, the U. S. did not have a formal visa or green card system for European immigrants. He followed the established procedures and became a naturalized U. S. citizen in 1892.

"Illegal" Label in Germany: He is sometimes referred to as an "illegal emigrant" because he left Bavaria without fulfilling his military obligations or properly notifying authorities. This later led to him being labeled a draft dodger by German officials.

=====
What a crime! He refused to join the most evil army in history!

[Tarifa]

LOL So everyone who doesn't follow blindly what Trump says is a communist. What a way to oversimplify things.

[sage2021]

Because illegal aliens made it a country of immigrants!

[strateguy632]

I was born here ! Wtf! "We the people of the united states " not a national immigrants.

[exitseven]

We are a nation of immigrants. There is a big difference between immigrants and illegal aliens. We will not become a nation of illegal aliens.

[Buford_T_Justice]

America is a nation of Americans.
Or American citizens. But I would include green card holders that will hopefully take the next step.

[Cidknee]

I think it refers to our ancestry but I'm with you. I prefer citizens.

[Tomislav7]

Immigrants. All nations house citizens, only America gives opportunity for all to come.

[Sal_Monella]

A nation of Patriots.

[CrystalPeak]

Citizens

[Mike_Hum]

It’s seemingly a nation of scammers.