What percentage of intense Trump haters have serious mental issues?

[Jersey2]

It is becoming evident that many Trump haters have serious mental illness. It can’t be ignored any longer. They rage, their arguments are shallow and incoherent while simply spewing hate filled insults. Ask them to explain and they can’t. These people are emotionally unstable but what to do about it? Some are actually on this site.

Teacher of the month is the latest shooter

The first step is simply to understand how many of them are dangerously unbalanced.

Less than 1%

1%

5%

10%

20%

More than 20%

Updates

2 mo

It is shockingly more prevalent than I suspected on here.

Updates

2 mo

The votes are coming in.

[strawberryapple]

💯percent. That’s why instead of debating they just play the race card.

Before you hit the send button on your questions, make sure to turn the stupid AI off.


It looks a little different depending on if you’re using the website or the app.

[Jersey2]

I will look for the off button on the AI, thanks!

These type of people will cop out as they know that they can not actually have an intelligent conversation. They just spew some nonsense and then make an excuse to dodge the drill down into actual facts.

[strawberryapple]

It’s not even worth listening to them.
Oh, and just because you turned the AI off, don’t think it’ll stay off. It will try and sneak back on before you hit the sun button. Double and triple check.

[Jersey2]

Wow, thanks

[strawberryapple]

If you use the app, this is the checkbox you look for

https://ibb.co/PGwx6ny2

[strawberryapple]

Thanks for the MHO

[RavVid]

Technically Liberals are hysterical thinkers; they reason on emotions only. Poor Liberal brains have enlarged anterior cingate cortexes. It is not their fault exactly as it is their biology.

But they should try to overcome this birth defect.

You are clearly a cognitive thinker who reasons if A=B & B=C then A=C. They just don't. A snappy chant that rhymes is proof to them.

[Jennz6]

💯 percent and someone shot at him last night

[Jersey2]

Yes, I mentioned the shooting of last night which triggered this question. AI stripped that part out and made the question less relevant in that regard. Thanks for noting it though 😀

[Jennz6]

@Jersey2
Sure, glad to help you

[Jennz6]

@Jersey2
Thank you Dear for the MHO 🍒💕

[Friendlybro79]

This isn’t really an observation, it’s a conclusion you already decided on.

You’re taking the loudest, most emotional people you see online and using that to label millions of people you’ve never met as mentally ill. That’s a huge leap. Every political group has people who argue badly and throw insults. That’s not unique to “Trump haters,” that’s just the internet being the internet.

The bigger issue is you’re ignoring the obvious alternative… a lot of people just don’t like Trump, and they can actually explain why pretty clearly if you’re willing to listen. There are plenty of detailed criticisms out there about his policies, leadership style, legal issues, all of it. You don’t have to agree with them, but acting like they don’t exist doesn’t make them disappear.

And honestly, there’s some irony here. Calling a massive group of people mentally unstable because they disagree with you politically is a pretty extreme reaction. It kind of proves the point about emotion taking over instead of understanding.

If you actually want a real conversation, the better question would be something like: what are the strongest reasons people give for not supporting Trump, and why do they believe them? That at least opens the door to a discussion instead of just writing everyone off from the start.

[blueonblack22]

Virtually every person I’ve met with TDS almost always has other personal / mental health issues going on. They get a deranged feeling of relevance and “conviction” by hating Trump.

Any American is more then welcome to have a negative opinion of a politician. That’s your first amendment right. But when you literally start hating and acting deranged towards any person who merely voted for him then that’s a sign of mental illness. That’s the difference.

I don’t recall large swathes of conservatives getting deranged towards anybody who voted for Biden.

[Jersey2]

It is true, I agree. I suspect that these mental midgets get their ego elevated online by bashing Trump so they repeatedly do it. But when it come down to drilling down into the actual issues then it is revealed that they are bereft pf actual facts. All they have are rants and insults headlined by a few broad talking points. These are dumb people.

But what is scary is the ones that take it to such an extreme as to hurt or threaten people. It is like their identity now is hating Trump and they must have ever increasing amounts of approval like a drug addict needs ever increasing doses. They are nut-jobs and many are in the early stages on here.

[blueonblack22]

issue is that people have to believe in something and more these people are atheists. So politics IS their religion which make them all the more zealous about it. Hating anyone voted for Trump is a form of doctrine. I’ve seen it happen in my own family.

The thing is Trump is a mortal man. He’s almost 80. His term will be up in 2 years. I have no idea what comes next but I wish to God we could get away from the polarization. It started during Obama’s second term and Trump exasperated that.

The only possible thing that can happen is if there is some sort of crisis all Americans can unite around.

[blueonblack22]

*most of these people are atheists.

[FunkyMonkee]

1000%!!!
They were stupid enough to be tricked by the media into believing that Trump is such a horrible person when he's doing everything he can to try to make the country, if not the world, a much better place to live and all those fucking crazy assholes can't even SEE what's REALLY going on right under their noses!!
In the meantime, while Joe was destroying the country, doing way more than what they are now accusing Trump of doing, they NEVER SAID A FUCKING WORD ABOUT ANY OF IT!!

[Jersey2]

I really believe that many of them are truly stupid people. The ones that have the most rabid views are often stupid people looking for relevance and they find it online bashing Trump.

[FunkyMonkee]

They ARE QUITE stupid!! As I said, they believe ALL the bullshit media tells them to believe without bothering to check for themselves if it's true or not!
It's nearly all owned by rich cocksuckers that are trying to force their new world order onto us!! "Meet John Doe", especially the speech he gives to the rich people at their party near the end, should at least clue you in to what's been going on for at least a century!!
The elites buy every politician they can and, if they can't, they use all their media power to stomp them down and make them look like shit!! And, most of the stupid people (because that's the way they've been trying to train us to be!) believe EVERY WORD they say!!! Just like at the rally at the end of, "Meet John Doe"! A bunch of the shills for the millionaires start yelling in the crowd that John Doe's a fake and most of the crowd starts to believe that!!
That's what's been going on with Trump!! 20 years ago, everyone loved him and wanted to be his friend!! The elites tried to buy him and blackmail him into being like them so he'd be in their back pocket and do anything they want him to do or say but, he saw what they really are, wants NO PART of that shit and only wants to HELP the country!! So, since he refuses to play their game, they decided to drag him through the mud any way they could and even get their nazi cult to think he's so bad that they need to take shots at him and try to kill him before he gets everything done that he plans to do for us!! He's like Toto trying to pull the curtain away from "Oz" to show that he's a fake and "Oz" (the elites) are trying to stop him from showing us who and what they really are!!
Trump is John Doe and the elites can't/won't have that!!

[DryGermanGuy]

When is Joe Biden's impeachment coming? WE WANT JUSTICE!!!

[FunkyMonkee]

@DryGermanGuy DAMN STRAIGHT!!!

[Jersey2]

It is bigger than Biden. It is VP Harris and many others who covered up his disability and mental capacity. I believe they clearly knew. It just spilled out in front of the world that he was a blithering idiot during the debate with Trump. Only then was he finished… otherwise he would have gone on to the next election and lost to Trump.

[FunkyMonkee]

I SERIOUSLY doubt he would've lost to Trump without cheating again!!

[DryGermanGuy]

So, the DoJ and all the Attorney Generals are hard at work to impeach both Harris and Biden, right? RIGHT? When can we expect justice?

[Jersey2]

@DryGermanGuy We can’t trollman. Sadly, we can’t.

[DryGermanGuy]

celebpath.com/.../...-speech-in-New-Hampshire.jpeg

[exitseven]

More than 20%. It is more like 99%. I cannot think of a crazier group than liberals. I look at the crowd that assembled in 30 degrees below zero in Minnesota last winter to engage with ICE agents. They were interfering with federal agents and breaking the law but crazier than that is that they want to hang on to every illegal alien that has broken the law simply by coming into the country without authorization. They actually want people who at the least are welfare cheats and at the worst , murderers, drug traffickers and rapists and incredibly ignored the fact that billions of dollars of tax money had been stolen by the Somalian community. Pretty crazy

[RavVid]

It is definitive the Left are depressed, narcissistic and neurotic. All mental illnesses. There is probably a lot of overlap of these three i. e a Lift winger is depressed AND narcissistic AND neurotic so you can't just add up %ages.

But it is absolutely true it is well over 25%

[MrChinaski]

Errr... about 20% of any Western population has a mental condition in any given year. You thought it would be cool to post and mock them?

Do you kick disabled children when you pass them too? Point and laugh at the elderly? What other ways do you make the world a better place?

[Jersey2]

That is an odd response. If that is correct that 20% have mental issues then it would make sense as many Trump haters are rabid nutjobs. Perhaps they just gravitate to hating Trump as it is simply a part of how they react in general. I thought Trump made them crazy but your point is valid that they were already crazy.

[Anonymous]

Have you ever thought maybe it’s Donald Trump supporters that have mental illnesses?
Donald Trump didn’t seem to care about the 150 plus girls killed in Iran, he calls other people ugly and losers. Donald Trump also once falsely claimed his uncle taught the murderer Ted Kaczynski.

[Jersey2]

I am trying to understand what your logic is. Certainly there are some Trump supporters have mental illnesses but they didn’t shoot Biden or Obama. Then you jump to Iran which is disjointed thinking. No mention of the 8 girls he had asked Iran to not execute this week and as far as I know they are honoring that request. Then you jump to names Trump labels people which has done his whole life but yet the majority of voters in this country don’t care about that issue. And then we jump to a weird issue that could be a fabrication by Trump’s uncle or family lore which is wrong. Pocahontas had a whopper of a fake story in comparison as she made a lot of money from it unlike Trump.

Can you get a grip on your thoughts and present a more coherent argument?

[Opinion Owner]

It was Donald Trump who falsely claimed his uncle taught convicted murder and terrorist murderer Ted Kaczynski. I bet you won’t find any sources to refute what I am saying because it is true.

[Jersey2]

First, that is a trivial issue in comparison to discussing Trump. Trivial. And my answer stand: “ And then we jump to a weird issue that could be a fabrication by Trump’s uncle or family lore which is wrong. Pocahontas had a whopper of a fake story in comparison as she made a lot of money from it unlike Trump.”. His uncle could have fabricated that story or it is just wrong family lore which I said. No where did I say that he did in fact teach Ted K. Your point is pointless and leads no where that is material. It is difficult to crawl through such trivial silliness. My original point in this question stands: “ They rage, their arguments are shallow and incoherent while simply spewing hate filled insults. Ask them to explain and they can’t.”

[Opinion Owner]

There was a senator named Sen. Justin Eichorn who wanted to pass a bill which would classify TDS as a mental illness. He later ended up being charged with sex crimes against a minor. He is sick minded obviously.

[Jersey2]

True. There are bad people in both sides of the aisle. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was half or more of them in Congress that are dirty. Look at how many became enormously wealthy with little to explain how they achieved it. We should have them all reviewed by the FBI and DoJ for crimes simply as part of annual reviews for anyone in Congress, Courts and the Presidency.

[Opinion Owner]

So Fidel Castro did a few good things when he was alive like improve education and health care but that still doesn’t mean he was a good person.

I find Donald Trump to be unattractive both inside and out. Yes, I have seen pictures of him when he was young. He was never handsome in my opinion and his personality always seemed repulsive to me.

I don’t like either Castro or Trump but I will still acknowledge and admit Trump isn’t as bad as Castro.

[Opinion Owner]

Do you remember that time when Donald Trump said he might use the military to take over Greenland.
Imagine seeing on the news that the country with the most powerful military might invade. That is what the people in Greenland likely saw. I would find that to be scary.

[Jersey2]

Looks don’t matter to many people. As it was famously said,” it’s the economy, stupid”. Yes, looks matter a bit but that is more for the media types.

The people who actually escaped Cuba and Castro are staunch Trump voters. I don’t see Trump and Castro as having anything in common. Trump was given 4 years in 2016. He lost to Biden who’s term people saw as a disaster. There was a fondness then that came back to many voters and they voted Trump in years after he left office. That was also after years of the Left dragging him through the mud but the majority of voters voted him back in again for round 2. The polls suck but so did they before Hillary and Harris lost to him. Trump never polls well for various reasons. So in essence many people see him as having giving them value for their vote after years of him getting dragged and years of terrible polling and media coverage. The people know.

[Jersey2]

He said all options are on the table… which the US Presidents say all the time. He later did rule out force though to clarify. Perhaps you can send me a link to where he said he might use the military to take over Greenland.

[Opinion Owner]

Trump may have done good things in his presidency but I’m still not convinced overall he is a good person. You know he posted a truth social post this year threatened death to ordinary Iranian civilians

Here is word from word of the social media post

“A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will.”

[Jersey2]

The Iranian regime had just murdered 35,000 Iranians who protested in January 8 and 9. You are aware of this right?

The regime also was trying to acquire nuclear weapons to destroy Israel and they were months if not weeks away from being able to do this. Trump threatened them for sure as that is what they understand. He also killed many of their leaders as they tried to do what they always did which was lie and stall for time. Notice when the US did attack the Iranians attacked so many other countries. They are a true danger. A nuclear Iran is not an option. I don’t believe he was talking about killing the civilians but rather the Iranian infrastructure of electricity and other vital utilities which would have probably been done in phases and across cities in hopes the Iranians give up or their civilians create a civil war as that would be their chance.

[Opinion Owner]

Did you know Donald Trump repeatedly threatened to target Iranian power plants and energy infrastructure. If he did something like that it would effect ordinary Iranian citizens who aren’t part of the government and will prevent them from getting things like clean water, electricity in their houses and badly effect hospitals.

[Opinion Owner]

Did you know there was police officers who commited suicide after the January 6th riot. They felt too much trauma over what happened. Donald Trump was the person who encouraged a large group of people to participate in the January 6th incident.
I really don’t understand why anyone would think Donald Trump is a good person.

[Jersey2]

I think attacking the power plants is a next logical move in fighting Iran. It also may give the protesters darkness that is needed to take on their government. I would bet many of them woukd like a dark city as that would offer cover.

Trump is trying to stop Iran from using nuclear weapons which will vaporize millions of people in Israel, the US, and other countries. They must be stopped.

Do you think President Lincoln was a good person? The Civil War was filled with terrible things. Sometimes it has to be done just like in WWII as well.

You don’t get to live in a free country without fighting people who wish to control against the will of the people. There will always be those like the Iranian Clerics and their Revolutionary Guard who wish to strangle their population and murder millions. Stopping them takes courage. Sitting in the dark seems to be the least of their issues. It could have been done at the beginning of the war but Trump is trying to not do it but he may be forced to do it anyway.

[Jersey2]

The question on Jan 6th I asked Artificial Intelligence (AI) as it is so complicated. Still today there is a question of what happened as there are so many contradictory statements and theories so I figured that this would be the best way to cut through the smoke for facts which are as O asked was Trump directly responsible for the suicides:

Trump’s speech had heated rhetoric + false election claims and motivated the crowd, but he also said “peacefully and patriotically.” He didn’t order violence.

Rioters who breached, assaulted police, and caused chaos bear
direct responsibility. Suicides aren’t “directly due to Trump.“​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[Opinion Owner]

Firstly AI isn’t always correct.
Donald Trump speech was over 30 minutes long so he said more than what you wrote.
He also said something like “ "if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.”
He was encouraging violence that day.
Stop making excuses for him. You were leaving out context. Donald Trump isn’t a good person.
People were also saying “Hang Mike Pence” that day on January 6th and I believe Donald Trump has also never said sorry to Mike Pence after that day. When Mike Pence was rushed to safety on January 6th it was reported Donald Trump said “so what?” after he was notified about that.
You are leaving out context about what truly happened. You sound just like Tucker Carlson.

[Opinion Owner]

It’s obvious by his response “so what?” he doesn’t care about the feelings or safety of Mike Pence after Mike Pence was receiving death threats that day.
You wanna know something else. It was reported Donald Trump spent over three hours watching television coverage of the Capitol riot in his dining room, failing to take action to stop the violence. Witnesses testified he ignored pleas from staff, lawmakers, and family to call off the rioters during this time. Since Donald Trump was the main person who encouraged the riot he was likely the one who had the most power to tell the rioters to stop but he didn’t try soon enough. He waited hours. Stop leaving out context about what truly happened on January 6th.

[Opinion Owner]

Donald Trump said he was glad after Robert Mueller died.
I don’t know how many people but there will probably still be people saying the same thing about Donald Trump when it’s his time.

[Jersey2]

You seem very feelings based. Very emotional. I tend to be more logical. Trump stirred up the crowd but he wasn’t even there. They could have stayed outside. They didn’t burn cars or the like and we all know that is a typical liberal riot. I wonder if you give them a pass when they do it. They will probably riot this summer as it is mid-term elections this year and they like warm weather.

Clearly people will cheer when Trump dies. He knows that. Millions will also mourn. Many have shown disappointment that he didn’t die at the Correspondence Dinner. He has been through the wringer in the last 10 years. There is a lot of hate out there and for some people it makes them unhinged. It doesn’t matter who Trump is replaced by. Trump didn’t determine the path we are on, he capitalized on it. I think many don’t understand that point. They think that when he is dead then that’s it. It’s not true. They will have to hate on half the country then.

[Opinion Owner]

You are not going to convince me Trump is a good person so I think we should just end the conversation here. Goodbye.

[Jersey2]

Fair enough. I was never convincing you he is a good person. As I said, I am a logical person and Trump is doing exactly what I want done so he is my choice as leader. He hasn’t violated morals as I see them. But it was a good talk. Best.

[Opinion Owner]

If you want to be a fan of him that is fine by me. Goodbye. Have a good day

[Jersey2]

I think of it as being his employer, not a fan. He is doing what I want done, cheers.

[Pohjolan]

Same as with the general population so around 5%. Around 75 million voted for Kamala and 5% of that would be around 3.75 million.

[TonyMetal___86]

Every person who thinks that trump's assasination is staged is mentally ill

[Jersey2]

They are sure stupid and ill informed that is for sure. Many are mentally ill though. They scream, they get positive feedback and they scream louder but never understanding anything with any depth.

[TonyMetal___86]

True 👍🏻
By the way, i don't understand why all the hate on this man, is it because he's trying to make america great again, actually he's trying to mqke the whole world a better place!

[Twalli]

When all we have is that they hate Trump it's impossible to tell.

[Anonymous]

No one fell for yet another staged shooting bahahahaha

[Jersey2]

Staged? This teacher of the month of December 2024 shot a Security team member who fortunately had body armor on. He had a shotgun, pistol and knife. Now much of his remaining life will be spent in jail.

You should reflect on your answer as it is unhinged with no facts to back it up. You are one of the ones I am talking about. And why Anon? Trolling and insecure?

[Alex-Snow]

Maybe ask the same of MAGAs and the percentage would be around 99%

[Jersey2]

See, there we go. A stupid answer with no facts. Just spewing nonsense.

[Alex-Snow]

Your question was not the best either. Let's just agree to disagree.

[Jersey2]

Explain please

[beefcakebradybatson]

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of Trumpsters have serious mental issues !!!

[Jersey2]

See, that is just an extreme and ridiculous position. This is why we can’t have conversations in this country anymore, even though you aren’t actually in the country. Notice that the poll offers less than 1% to start as a rational person would agree that 100% cannot be sane in a population group of that size. It also doesn’t have anything beyond 20% such as 100% as that is just ridiculous as well.

[Effably]

Actually it is not as strange of a position as it sounds like.

Trump supporters are widely considered cultists in the broader world.

Being a member of a cult is not a mental illness but it does qualify as a mental issue. And so if you, like the majority of academia worldwide, view it as a cult the claim that all involved have mental issues is reasonable.

Basically there is a very solid foundation to claim that every single Trump supporter has mental issues.

[Jersey2]

@Effably Patently absurd. That is wildly unhinged. So the majority of voters in this country are suffering from mental illness? Is that what you are saying?

[Effably]

A small minority by now.

And no. Being part of a cult is not classified as a mental illness, as I explicitly stated. It is however definitely seen as a mental issue.

I do understand that you are trying to argue that 100 percent of anything is absurd but if we said 100 percent of people currently asleep is sleeping, it is not absurd. 100 percent of trees are trees. If A equals B and B equals C, A also equals C.

If we consider being a Trumper being a cult-member, which again is the majority view worldwide and even in US academia, then if a cult-member is seen as having mental issues, not illness, 100 percent of them indeed be there. Because the classification makes it so.

[beefcakebradybatson]

OK,95% of Trumpsters are whacked out !!!

[Jersey2]

@Effably So for every man, woman, child and rapist immigrant in Sweden there are 7 Trump voters from 2024 who have mental illnesses because they support a guy the world press doesn’t like?

77,302,580 Voters are mentally ill is the theory you put forward to explain this? 77,302,580 who consist of every race, gender, social status, financial grouping etc. THAT is nuts!

You have issues as you cannot convince yourselves that the most productive people on the planet choose someone you don’t like as their leader. From Sweden, a country who begged for the US’s protection in Nato, because let’s face it, the US is NATO. Would you prefer a Merkel type who didn’t arm Europe and then let in millions to take over you countries? Such fools. Now that is nuts to let that happen. But now Europe is arming almost after a decade that Trump insisted. The US has closed much of the holes in the border and many in Europe wish they could too. I saw your rape statistics, you should be ashamed of being a Swedish man.

[Jersey2]

Ah, mental issue because that somehow is a big differentiator. Whacky coping nonsense.

[Effably]

The amount of nonsense you just wrote would take a twenty page dissertation to do justice.

The number of people living somewhere else has no meaning here. You know that. How can you try to employ logic and use this as your opening? Are you trying to belittle yourself?

The amount of voters have rapidly declined and are declining each week. The majority is gone and comparatively few would consider themselves Trump supporters today. None of this changes what the classification for a cult is and as such has no bearing at all on anything we said.

The US is not the most productive people on the planet. Since you already mentioned Sweden, for example, Sweden is a country where the PPC is higher. As is nearly all of Europe. Basically any similarly developed country is more productive.

Sweden has nothing to do with any of this. I do not understanding your obsession with shifting away from the topic to try and get a win anywhere as if that would change things. Sweden never begged to join Nato but has been approached to do so since its inception. USA has been the main player in NATO, but does not represent a majority in it any more than the tallest kid in a school class is most of the class. NATO without USA still maintains the majority of its power. You need a reality check.

Europe is arming itself somewhat because USA is suddenly the main threat to world peace. And ran by incompetents threatening genocide over their hurt feelings.

I again do not understand what this has to do with your point of mental issues, but Swedish rape-statistics is as high as it is because Sweden counts every act and every participant as one entry. If three rapists abducted someone and gangraped them twenty times we count that as 60 instances of rape. You count it as 1. If Sweden employed the same statistical method our rape statistics drop to among the world's safest - which is still much worse than it used to be.

[Effably]

And lastly. Mental illness and mental issues are different. One is a diagnosis requiring professional assessment. The professional view is that being in a cult, even delusional, does not count as a mental illness. If you had spent half the effort researching your own question as you did trying to find something about my country you would know that. A mental issue by comparison is something warranting therapy and rehabilitation, which being in a cult does.

Now, will you stop flailing your arms around hoping you will accidentally make a valid point and use your brain?

[Jersey2]

@Effably The number of people is important because it sets the scale and magnitude of what you are saying, that over 77 million people have mental issues because they as the majority of US voters. It is ridiculous and you have no credibility in saying it.

Here is the productivity outlook from AI:

Yes, the USA is substantially more productive than Europe (EU) as a whole on a per-hour labor productivity basis. eei-institute. eu
Labor Productivity (GDP per Hour Worked, PPP-Adjusted)
This is the key comparable metric:
• Recent data (2024, PPP terms): EU average ≈ $72 per hour vs. USA ≈ $116 per hour (EU ~38% lower). eei-institute. eu
• 2023 OECD figures: USA around $97 per hour; EU average notably lower (typically 80-85% of US levels in recent years, with variation by source and exact EU aggregation). en. wikipedia. org
• Longer-term trend: EU productivity has been around 82-90% of US levels in recent years (e. g., ~87% in 2022 for EU-22/27 aggregates), but the gap has widened since ~2019 due to stronger US growth in high-productivity sectors. conversableeconomist. com
The USA outperforms the EU average significantly, similar to (but larger than) its edge over Sweden.

Nato is weak without the US. Only a fool thinks otherwise. I swear the arrogance of Europeans grows as their power shrinks.

[Jersey2]

From AI io Nato:

Yes, NATO would be significantly weaker without the USA, particularly in terms of critical “enabler” capabilities, global power projection, and rapid high-intensity operations, though European allies alone remain a formidable regional force—stronger than Russia in most conventional metrics but with notable vulnerabilities. ukdefencejournal. org. uk
Defense Spending Share
• The US accounts for roughly 60-65% of total NATO defense spending in recent years (e. g., ~$980 billion out of ~$1.5-1.6 trillion total projected for 2025). tbsnews. net

NATO’s effectiveness relies heavily on US contributions, creating real limitations without it: foreignpolicy. com
• Strategic enablers: Intelligence/surveillance/reconnaissance (ISR, including satellites), air-to-air refueling, command/control/communications, precision long-range strike, suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD), and strategic lift/logistics. Europe lacks sufficient independent capacity here. ukdefencejournal. org. uk iiss. org
• Sustainment: Difficulty moving forces quickly across Europe, maintaining high-intensity operations over time, and resupplying munitions.
• Nuclear umbrella: UK and France provide deterrence, but it’s less comprehensive than the full US extended deterrent. ukdefencejournal. org. uk
• Integration: Fragmented national armies, incompatible systems, and reliance on US-led command structures make unified operations harder and costlier. youtube. com

[Jersey2]

Youbare a small meaningless, backwater counrty of 10 million people. I have been to your country several times on business and pleasure and Europe 70 times and all seven continents. You joined Nato because the US did not directly defend Ukraine and you could have been next. We don’t need you. You have fewer troops than are needed to defend just Stockholm much less the entire country.

You actually have more officers than troops? From AI:

Yes, in the Swedish Armed Forces’ full-time professional personnel, there are significantly more officers than enlisted soldiers/sailors. en. wikipedia. org
Current Breakdown (as of recent 2025–2026 data)
• Total active personnel: ~25,600.
• Professional officers (yrkesofficerare): ~9,700.
• Full-time enlisted (GSS/K: gruppbefäl, soldater och sjömän — non-commissioned officers, soldiers, and sailors): ~5,700.
• Civilian employees: ~10,200. forsvarsmakten. se
This means officers outnumber full-time enlisted by roughly 70% in the professional core force. forsvarsmakten. se

[Jersey2]

And rape, rationalize it all you want but your women and little girls bleed because you are cowards. Same with a lot of Europe.

[Effably]

The number is irrrelevant to the criteria. Not even to repeat that the number is now far from accurate.

If you asked that same AI to compare Sweden and USA it would inform you Sweden is more productive per hour. Same for most of the European countries.

You are asking leading questions to an AI that is trained in trying to agree with you mate. What is it meant to prove? We could ask it if NATO will be fine without USA and it will agree too. I never denied USA is a big part of NATO. It is nearly a third of it. But make no mistake who needs who.

You are really just trying to argue anything you can. Of course my small country is a small country. What is the point of that? That is as meaningful as me flexing that our weapon manufacturing capability is highest in the world or that a single of our submarines have beaten your entire navy.

There is no rationalizing rape. Of course it is horrible and unacceptable. There is explaining statistics that flew over your head.

I don't really want to insult you but at this rate it will be impossible to even repeat what you say without it automatically insulting you. You are clearly trying to make this some contest instead of listening and learning things, so I won't have any more of it. It will only make you more angry and less reasonable and what is the point of that?

You do not help a cultist by fighting them. Consider only that if the rest of the world says otherwise, the rest of the world is most often right.

[Jersey2]

@Effably This is just silly at this point. Your positions are not rooted in facts.

I worked my entire career with computers and large amounts of money. The thing liked best about them is that they don’t care about bullshit spin nor feelings when you work with them as programs or spreadsheets. Your made up views don’t affect reality and never will. It doesn’t matter your nonsense on Nato nor your Economic views. The facts are the facts. Europe can’t keep up with the US and China as that is the horse race of today. Through this conversation coupled with others I have come to the conclusion that you guys see the world far differently than what the world really is. As I said though, it doesn’t matter as that isn’t how the world works. Europe has fallen behind in the past 15 years. Ignoring it won’t help. The US has it’s problems, China has it’s problems but Europe still thinks they are a big player when they are fading fast. Europe is a museum today not a driving force in the world. Small Sweden is like a lower US state in terms of PPP. Here is the data:

Approximate Ranking Context
If Sweden were treated as a U. S. state (using consistent PPP-adjusted comparisons or common cross-analyses):
• It would generally fall below the U. S. average and below many high-productivity or resource-rich states (e. g., New York, Massachusetts, Washington, California, North Dakota, Texas).
• It would be comparable to or above several lower/mid-tier states (e. g., similar to or above Mississippi, West Virginia, Arkansas in some nominal/PPP-adjusted views, but analyses often place it near states like Kansas, South Dakota, or Oklahoma in older PPP household income comparisons). mises. org
• Historical comparisons (e. g., from Mises/AEI-style analyses) have placed Sweden (and similar European countries) in the lower third to bottom half of states on per-capita metrics when aligned for PPP. aei. org

[beefcakebradybatson]

George Carlin once observed "Think of the average American's stupidity, then remember that half are even dumber," so kinda !!!

[Jersey2]

And yet we lead the world. How dumb is the rest of the world then? Carlin was funny though. I saw him live once.

More data on Europe falling behind the US in the past 15 years:
Yes, the US economy has significantly outpaced the EU/Europe over the past 15 years (roughly 2010–2025), both in total GDP and especially in per capita terms. econofact. org
Key Data (Nominal GDP, World Bank/IMF/StatisticsTimes)
• 2010–2023/2024 period:
• US GDP grew by ~87% (from ~$14.8T to ~$27.7T+ by 2023).
• EU GDP grew by ~13.5% (from ~$16.4T to ~$18.6T by 2023). econofact. org
• By 2023–2024, the EU’s total GDP was about 67% of the US (down from over 100% around 2008–2011). econofact. org
• 2024–2025 estimates (IMF/StatisticsTimes): US nominal GDP ~$29–30T+; EU ~$19–21T. US per capita ~$86K–$90K nominal vs. EU ~$43K–$47K. statisticstimes. com
Real (Inflation-Adjusted) Growth & Per Capita
• Cumulative real GDP growth (2010–2023): US ~34%; EU/Eurozone ~18–21%. polytechnique-insights. com

[Jersey2]

GDP per capita gap widened sharply:
• From 2010: US was ~47% higher than EU.
• By ~2021–2023: US ~82% higher (or EU per capita fell to ~50–72% of US levels, depending on PPP vs. nominal). ecipe. org
• Annual real per capita growth averaged higher in the US (~3.4% in some periods post-2010) vs. EU (~1.6%). ecipe. org
Why the Divergence?
• Stronger US productivity growth, tech/innovation leadership, energy advantages, and more dynamic labor/capital markets.
• Europe faced slower post-financial crisis recovery, energy shocks (e. g., post-2022), higher regulation, demographics (slower population growth), and lower investment in high-growth sectors.
• US population growth helped total GDP; per capita still shows US lead. econofact. org
Notes/Caveats:
• PPP adjustments narrow the gap (US still leads by ~38% per capita), as they account for lower EU costs. statisticstimes. com
• Some EU countries (e. g., Eastern) grew faster internally, but the aggregate lags.
• Pre-2010, EU sometimes closed gaps or had higher totals due to exchange rates/population.
• Data from World Bank, IMF, Eurostat, and analyses (e. g., ECIPE, Bruegel) are consistent on the trend through 2025. econofact. org
In short, the US has pulled ahead decisively in economic size and prosperity per person over this period. Trends are projected to continue with US growth ~2%+ annually vs. EU often below that.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[Effably]

I know you think you have a point here @Jersey2 , but you don't. You are also mistakenly quoting us purchasing power parity instead of the real production per person you were trying to make a comment about.

It is like talking to a guy about which horse is fastes only to have him go "Cars though, they have horsepower". Well yes. It is an economical concept. It is not at all what we talked about. Go soothe your wounded ego somewhere else.

[Jersey2]

@Effably yes, published numbers with sited sources are all a sham just for this conversation. It is amazing that with my perceived lack of knowledge that I was responsible and managed $3 Billion USD on 6 continents. You would also be surprised to know what big number clicks off for me in earning by every 26 months… and I am retired now so no paychecks 😂.

Let’s see, when I was your age, 28, I was married with a child, a house, and working at the Fortune number 5, not just Fortune 500, at that time. I was being fast tracked in their management program in Corporate. Berkshire Hathaway Is number 5 today, not then, to give you an idea. Do you even know that company? The man who started it at one time knew my name. So have other billionaires. I know this is talking to a wall because you are so much more huh. You know everything just like a teenager.

You really ought to stand up for the women in Sweden though. I consider you lesser men for allowing it. The rapes of little girls and women must stop and you know what you need to do as a country, kick them out.

[beefcakebradybatson]

And China's power grows!!!

[Jersey2]

China is a powerhouse, no doubt. But you need to look below the surface to understand better. Here are some key bullets:

2025 USA vs China GDP Growth Comparison
• Real GDP Growth Rate (%):
USA: +2.1%
China: +5.0%
Winner: China (higher percentage growth)
• Nominal GDP 2024 (USD):
USA: ~$29.30 trillion
 China: ~$18.95 trillion
• Nominal GDP 2025 (USD):
USA: ~$30.77 trillion 
China: ~$19.63 trillion
• Absolute Growth in USD:
USA: +$1.47 trillion
 China: +$0.68 trillion
 Winner: USA (more dollars added)
• Nominal Growth in USD (%):
USA: ~+5.0%
 China: ~+3.6%
Winner: USA

I did business in China and was there many times. When you get to know the people they sometimes will let their guard down and share their concerns. Chief among them is the population problem they have with so many old people vs the young ones that need to carry them financially.

But look at these numbers above. China’s growth is impressive. But growth on a smaller number is easier to do than a massive number like US GDP. Important to note is that even with the US’s slower percentage growth, they actually grew in real dollars by close to a trillion over China. They are widening the gap.

Important to note than many question China’s 5% growth. They don’t actually believe that us accurate and that it is lower. Also, if you went back 15 years and invested in China’s stock market vs in the US, you woukd have made a LOT more money in the US market.

[Jersey2]

Always look under the numbers for the real story. Just like China says they now have a bigger Navy than the US. In terms of number of ships, they do now. How did they do it? They built 150 small coastal patrol boats. So in numbers, an Aircraft Carrier counts as 1 and a Patrol Boat counts as 1.

US Navy vs China (PLAN) Navy Tonnage Comparison (2025–2026 Data)
• Total Fleet Tonnage (Broader Definition):
US Navy: ~8.27 million tons
China (PLAN): ~3.19 million tons
Winner: USA (nearly 2.6x heavier)
• Combat/Battle Force Tonnage (Common Citation):
US Navy: ~4.5 million tons
China (PLAN): ~2.4 million tons
Winner: USA (nearly 2x heavier)
• Ship Count (Approximate):
US Navy: ~290–465 (varies by definition: battle force vs. total assets)
China (PLAN): ~350–841 (varies by definition)
Winner: China (more hulls, many smaller vessels)

[Jersey2]

China 5% growth is questioned*. Typos. My bane in life.

[Jersey2]

@Effably Oh and f0r the person who helped you, they are wrong:

PPP is the right lens for “real production” because it better compares what people can actually buy/produce across countries. All three are wealthy advanced economies with high living standards, but the US pulls ahead on pure output per person. Data comes primarily from IMF World Economic Outlook (recent vintages), World Bank, and consistent cross-sources. Figures can vary slightly by exact year or revision, but the ranking is stable.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

I see that it takes the US less than 5.5 months in just GDP GROWTH to create the same as the entire Swedish GDP. The US creates two Swedens in 11 months with just growth. It’s pretty funny actually.

[Jersey2]

And US power grows!!! Lol, I looked into it further and went back the 3 most recent years. The US is a powerhouse speeding away from China and everyone else.

The best way to view this is with a clear year-by-year nominal GDP table in current USD (trillions), plus the absolute change over the ~3-year period (end-2022 to end-2025). This directly answers absolute dollar growth without distortions from percentages, PPP, inflation adjustments, or currency swings. fred. stlouisfed. org
Updated Nominal GDP in Current USD (trillions)
Sources: BEA/FRED for US (official quarterly/annual), World Bank/IMF/NBS-consistent figures for China.
United States:
• 2022: ~$25.0–26.1T (annual avg./year-end ~$26.05T)
• 2023: ~$27.3–27.8T
• 2024: ~$28.8–29.3T
• 2025: ~$30.6–30.8T (full-year ~$30.76T) fred. stlouisfed. org
China:
• 2022: ~$17.9–18.3T
• 2023: ~$17.8–18.3T (near-flat in USD due to currency/weak demand)
• 2024: ~$18.7T
• 2025: ~$19.4–19.6T (some sources ~$19.5–20T; official CNY data converts lower in consistent USD) tradingeconomics. com
Absolute Growth (2022 → 2025)
• US: +≈ $4.7–5.7 trillion (e. g., from ~$26T to ~$30.8T). Strong nominal gains from real growth + moderate inflation.
• China: +≈ $1.2–2.0 trillion (e. g., from ~$18T to ~$19.5–20T). Held back by yuan movements and periods of weaker nominal expansion.
The US grew far more in absolute USD terms — by roughly 3x or more — even using generous figures for China. This matches the earlier conclusion. statisticstimes. com