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has lost every single war since World War 2, despite all the hyper-expensive military equipment and vaunted training. How can that be? Is it possible that the equipment is not so good after all, that training is not all it's cracked up to be, and the politicians are idiots?
No, it's not possible to win a land war if they people on that land don't want you there. The US has never fought a war of liberation supported by the inhabitants, so we lost. We lost in Vietnam, in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We lost in those places because the inhabitants knew full well that supporting the U. S. was a losing battle. They also knew full well that the U. S. economy and the insistence on capitalism were something they didn't want. Looking at the economic indicators today, do you think they maybe had a point?
@slatyb to be more specific.
Vietnam saw its peak troop deployment in 1968 (over 500,000). From 1969 to 1973 the US practiced Vietnmization, which replaced departing US troops with ARVN. The numbers dwindled to 20,000 by 1973. Most operations from 1971-73 were ARVN. The US left in 1973.
In 1975, the NVA launched a new invasion and the ARVN were not able to defeat them. The US did not return, and congress only allowed Operation Frequent Wind, which removed American citizens and at risk Vietnamese from the nation. A political disaster certainly.
Afghanistan was very similar.
US manpower met its peak in 2010 (100,000).
From 2011 (after Bin Ladens death), the US practiced "Afghanization" with its forces dropping to around 15,000 or so by 2014, while the ANDSF took control.
The US ended its combat mission in 2014
From 2015 to 2021, the ANDSF slowly lost control and met its ultimate defeat in 2021 after the US decided not to reenter the war. Political disaster akin to Vietnam.
@asker
Both Vietnam and the USA are mixed economies, though Vietnam does have more government control
https://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/vietnam/memo
globaledge.msu.edu/countries/united-states/memo
@FrodoSkywalker007 "Only" LOL
Still waiting for you argument.
You claimed "has lost every single war since World War 2"
Who won the Gulf War?
@FrodoSkywalker007 Not us. We spend trillions of dollars and nothing happened except the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
@FrodoSkywalker007 In WW2 we were fighting to repel invaders and were welcomed as liberators. All over France there are memorials for American troops who lost their lives liberating France.
@FrodoSkywalker007 We didn't achieve any of our goals in Vietnam. The South fell to the communist government of the North. Fifty thousand Americans were killed, half a million maimed or wounded. Millions of civilians were killed. What did we win?
Nothing was "won" in Vietnam. Every Nam vet says the same thing: "we weren't in it to win it". The US gets involved so they can deploy, because that costs money, fuels the corporations that make the equipment, and essentially the old "industrial-military complex" model that the right-wing has cleverly labeled "passe and cliche". But it's not. Hence, the wasting of billions of taxpayer dollars on a defense budget that has nothing to do with defense and everything to do with profit taking.
@slatyb of course. Not disagreeing.
The US supported South Vietnam. Won the majority of its battles. Had limited abilities to fight (no invasion of NV, no bombing of SAM sites etc). The public forced a drawdown. Vietnamization became a policy. Peace was signed to safeguard South Vietnam and withdraw troops. Case Church was signed prohibiting further military involvement without congressional approvement. Funding was cut to the ARVN. Years after the US left, the NVA restarted the war. Saigon fell, and congress only allowed Operation Frequent Wind. Political disaster.
Thankfully, I can't read whatever bullshit Frodo said. LOL
@FrodoSkywalker007 The developers don´t check whether you are blocked before sending notifications, showing questions, or showing replies to questions. Probably a one day change but this site seems to be running with limited staff.
Weird... oh well 🤷♂️
@FrodoSkywalker007 The government lied about the war from the beginning, as Daniel Ellsberg and the New York Times revealed with the publication of ¨The Pentagon Papers¨. Meanwhile US troops were committing atrocities against the civilian population, revealed by Seymour Hirsch's exposé of the My Lai massacre, and that was far from the only one. The only winner was the US war industry.
Middle management wanting a cut to the point they themselves can't afford anything either.
@NaultD the US won nearly all wars in that time frame.
The idea a nation can become a superpower and lose every war is quite stupid.
This is a weird claim and talking point.
I understand the complex and don't disagree.
That's not my question, or point to my statement.
@FrodoSkywalker007 let's ask what are the win conditions? Realistically we got superpower status after ww2 and we basically abused our station since then.
@FrodoSkywalker007 tell me which award is it you think the U. S. won since 1945? It's not a weird talking point at all. Actually, it's a very common talking point since it happens to be the truth.
@naultd your reply isn't the same topic as the question
Sure. Here's a short list
Korea, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Libya, Tanker War, Panama, Gulf War
The only defeats during that time were Afghanistan and Vietnam, which were political disasters years after US troops left
Here's my question.
Was it NVA forces defeating American troops in 1975?
Was it Taliban forces defeating American troops in 2021?
Or was there another force involved?
Asker, you are just going to run off again like the last few times you posted nonsense like this. I know it's you.
Why humiliate yourself debating history with someone who has a degree in it? 😂
@FrodoSkywalker007 let's call it hyperbole.
@naultd
Yes, the military industrial complex exists. Yes, it's a problem. I don't disagree.
The question here is based on a false reality.
As the asker says "has lost every single war since World War 2"
No powerful nation in history, (let alone a superpower) gain and kept its status by losing every war it fought. Name one?
Secondly, all of need to do is name one war to debunk this.
The Gulf War was one of the most lopsided and decisive wars of the 20th century.
Asker's premise immediately debunked. Unless, we want to practice extreme historical revisionism to the level of North Korea.
Comparing brush fire wars like Panama and Libya with Afghanistan and Vietnam is laughable. Talk about intellectual dishonesty wow.
Your claim was and I quote "has lost every single war since Worls War 2"
The Gulf War was one lf the most lopsided and decisive wars of the 20th century.
You are debunked. Go to bed ☺
@asker
I'm waiting. I know your there. You answered in another thread. ☺.
@FrodoSkywalker007 oh yes, right, a super power. That's a nice advertising slogan. Too bad you're full of shit.
Can't delete replies here?
I'll ask again, who. won the Gulf War?
@FrodoSkywalker007 We didn't win in Korea, everyone fortunately quit shooting at each other basically with tensions still very strong in the area. Those other piss as operations were nothing more than an afternoon fight. Sorry to burst your bubble but we are a bunch of fucking losers anymore.
@katiesmuff move away then? Your emotions have no basis in facts. North Korea invaded South Korea to conquer it and lost. South Korea is now one of the best nations in Asia
As I stated, his question says "has not won a single war since World War 2"
Who won the Gulf War?
Question debunked
Argument won.
@asker I'll ask again
Who won the Gulf War?
@katiesmuff care to explain where my reply is incorrect here? Was the war not started with a North invasion of the South? Were objectives not met in safeguarding the nation?
Is there not currently a major US military presence on South Korea today?
@katiesmuff better yet! Make your argument on why the Korean War was a defeat! It's very clear you are a friend of msc545 and agree with him (the anon). Give me your best argument as to why korea was a lost war.
Since the basis of this question is "has lost every single war since World War 2"
As you can see above.
*waiting*
@katiesmuff anytime ☺
Feel free to actually make an argument
@FrodoSkywalker007 It makes absolutely no sense in continuing battering back and forth with a true MORON puck kid of 25 with what looks to be multiple accounts bantering the same phony bullshit time after time. This is the true example of a TROLL on this site. Now FUCK OFF little boy
@katiesmuff so no argument?
Opinion
8Opinion
It's 100% the politicians fault as they fail to understand our tired and tested upper military commanders know what to do, but politics' holds them back. Then we get this current moron who plain out fires every intelligent person from the military who knows their stuff, then hires a simple minded newscaster as Sec of Defense.
Study history do you don't look so dumb
The only "defeats" in that 80 year period were Afghanistan and Vietnam.
Both were political disasters after the US military left.
Afghanistan saw a peak troop deployment in 2010, and a drawdown in 2011 after Bin Laden was killed. By 2014, the US handed security responsibility to the ANDSF.
From 2015 to 2021 the ANDSF slowly lost the war. Thy were mired with corruption and incompetence
Vietnam saw a peak troop deployment in 1968. And a drawdown from 1969 to 1973. The US practiced a policy known as "Vietnamization" which replaced US troops with ARVN. The US completely withdrew in 1973. The Case Church amendment prohibited further military involvement without congressional approval. The NVA started the war again and invaded 1975, defeating the ARVN that saw funding cuts. Congress only approved Operation Frequen Wind.
Study history.
I like the part about only Afghanistan and Vietnam as if those were minor incidents. Then of course you proceed to start making excuses about how they weren't really exactly defeats with your temporizing. You will do anything to defend warmongering by the US. You are quite disgusting and only marginally human.
Care to show me where anything I said was wrong?
Let's discuss.
I suggest you don't start in with this guy. Every time you respond to him he comes back with more demands and more lies. He's pretty good at the gish gal routine. If you want to follow through with that, go ahead but I guarantee it will be exhausting and unsatisfied. The best thing you can do is ignore him.
Still waiting for an answer.
Going to return to deleting my comments?
Keep waiting asshole. You've not said anything deserving of an answer.
@FrodoSkywalker007 Talk about dumb, did you even read what you printed as you sound like a simple minded moron with a 3rd grade educationl.
@katiesmuff you have clearly never studied history
I see no arguments from you here. Just personal attacks
@FrodoSkywalker007 virtually everything you say is wrong, but thank god you're no longer out on this side.
Asker, who won the Gulf war?
@asker and @katiesmuff
Do either of you have a actual argument? I see nothing but personal attacks and unwillingness to answer questions 😂
@Darthskywalker6969 you were removed from this site previously, and you're going to be removed again. I've already reported you. You must be stupid as a rock to make up an account that sounds almost the same as your original account.
Embarrassed from losing?
So this is confirmation you mass report accounts that defeat you in debate?
@Darthskywalker6969, essentially stalking other users on here and asking the same questions over and over again and badgering them for answers is what got you banned from here in the first place. It will get you banned again. Please keep up the badgering and keep up the stalking.
😂 what? You are weird friend
Nice debate tactic
@katiesmuff
Take my first claim here. First comment.
You resorted immediately to personal attacks.
What in my statement about Vietnam and Afghanistan was incorrect?
That's me waiting more than a day, while you avoided any discussion on inaccuracy.
,*waiting*
@katiesmuff @asker
Whenever you'd like to make an argument ☺
Name calling seems desperate
Because our morality makes us limit ourself. In contrast to brutal winners. This was demonstrated qnd dramatized in several films: die hard and superman vs kryptonians. And more. But
We need to count: after ww2 we battled to save south korea in 1950s and we won. We saved south korea. The goal was never to steal north korea.
we battled to save south vietnam in 1960s and we won. We saved south vietnam. Until we left and commies violated treaty.
we battled to save kuwait in 1990s and we won. We saved it.
we battled to save iraq in 2000s and we won. We saved kurds from saddam hussein and chemical wmd'.
We battled isis in iraq and syria and we won. We saved iraq and syria. So which won did we lose?
Well said
That's a rather stupid attempt to rewrite both reality and history.
Asker, are you claiming Kuwait wasn't liberated in 1991?
Nothing you said was saved was not saved from anything it was exploited by the US. That continues today except for Vietnam where they were smart enough to actually have a functional economy instead of a casino called capitalism that ripped people off. I don't notice the Vietnamese being particularly unhappy about this at this point.
I'll ask again.
Your claim was "has lost every single war since World War 2"
Who won the Gulf War?
@asker I'm waiting. You answered in another thread here just a short while ago. Don't be afraid ☺ accept you whooping and move on.
Horseshit
@FrodoSkywalker007 the Gulf War wasn't a war. It was an invasion, you fucking idiot.
Deleting comments again?
The Roman empire never fought wara of conquest?
As I asked.
You claimed."has not won a single war since World War 2"
Who won the Gulf War?
What morality? You must be joking. You live in the most evil country on the planet and you discuss morality? Are you fucking serious?
It's been a while.
Still waiting for an answer.
Or are you going to go back to deleting my comments?
You can wait forever asshole.
As I sad elsewhere. Concede and move on. We have this cycle every time you post.
@asker (msc545)
The irony in this post is you contradict yourself
You claim the US lost every war since WW2, yet within this very post you claimed "nothing you said was saved was not saved from anything it was exploited by the US. That continues today except for Vietnam"
In this statement you accept the US won and exploited every nation except Vietnam.
Which is it?
It seems you just want to whine about the US.
Did the USA lose every war? Or did the US exploit all of these nations? You can't exploit a nation if you lose.
Could the Europeans have exploited the native Americans if the Native Americans won?
Debunked again 😂
100% 😂 😂
When you use a million dollar bomb to destroy a 25,000 dollars target, you are LOSING the Attrition of the engagement. Our military often does this with ordinance which costs more than the real value of the target.
I've written letters to the Joint Chiefs, Congress, and Supreme Court and President about this SEVERAL times in the past, but they keep right on doing this shit.
Yes, they keep right on doing it and they will keep right on doing it because the purpose of the war is not to win it. The purpose of the war is to create an ongoing market for military equipment that is paid for by the taxpayers and enriches the military industrial complex. It's simply payoffs to the weapons makers. Nobody cares if it makes any sense as long as the profits keep flowing.
Study history before making such a stupid claim.
The US has won nearly every war since WW2.
It's "defeats" (Vietnam and Afghanistan) happened years after military campaigns ended. They were political disasters where allied powers collapsed
@itss_lily False. Your gonna have to prove that.
Warning. I have a degree in History.
This is a anti American argument that has no basis inreality.
You don't become a superpower and win a Cold War by losing every war in a 80+ year period. Use your head.
Nobody cares about your little degree in history. Doesn't mean anything.
Maybe reply. with an argument
Just a suggestion ☺
Stop. Making stupid, unverifiable claims. Just a suggestion.
Listening to him, I'm guessing he bought that degree (if he actually has one) at a second hand store.
@katiesmuff emotions again? Any actual arguments?
@katiesmuff I've already debunked you once. Want me to do it again? Or are you going to run away like last time?
You are like those college campus leftists that know little of the social issues they purport to support. You argue without points and make hyperbole the statement of the day.
I'm more interested in facts.
Feel free to test me again and we can have a retreat of our last conversation where you get overwhelmed and ditch.
Someone as chronically stupid and ignorant as you are should just stay off the internet.
You've never debunked me on anything in fact it seems most of us here agree that you have no idea what the hell your even talking about. Turn your computer back to porn and be happy just watching an jacking off which is what you sound like.
@katiesmuff do you have arguments? I've seen none. Just whining and personal attacks.
Study history
@katiesmuff no, I think it's slightly better than that. He probably bought two history books at his local secondhand book store and read them and then decided he's an expert.
WOW personal attacks.
Nice tactics guys
@Darthskywalker6969 It's simple to take a picture of that history degree and post it here?
@katiesmuff why don't you try actually making an argument on why I'm wrong
Instead of resorting to personal attacks and demands of credentials.
Take any statement on history I've made here and explain to me why I'm wrong
You are taking a cowards way out because you realize you're getting steamrolled.
@katiesmuff picture of history degree? 😂 you'd just stalk me. Try making arguments 😂
That's a good one
He is a troll and an idiot. Don't respond to him.
@asker personal attacks again? 🤔
Keep trolling - I'll keep attacking.
I'm not even trolling.
I asked a question you refuse to answer.
So you are your buddies attacked me personally.
😂
Cry more.
Wowww 😂
The US spends on defense and then goes on offense attacking other countries. They seem to misunderstand the words.
It is not really defense, it is definitely offense or war, and most recently illegal war at that.
Yankees are getting dumber and fatter, so they can't effectively fight wars today.
The US has won nearly all wars in that time-frame
@FrodoSkywalker007 I had a stroke in '21, so I can't run, and cry about what? Being smarter and better-looking than any other G@Gger?
Hey Skywalker, do your ugly arguments on somebody else's question.
No, this is a guy that thinks that Grenada and Panama were the same as Vietnam and Afghanistan. That would be laughable if it wasn't so fucking stupid.
Deleting replies?
I'll ask again, who won the Gulf War?
Answer your own question
*waiting*
Wait longer. I'm not here to answer your questions.
Most Yanks know nothing of other states, never mind the world. My 11th birthday gift was a globe.
Afraid to answer because you were debunked.
Who won the Gulf war?
@asker
You admit defeat here by saying "No, this is a guy that thinks that Grenada and Panama were the same as Vietnam and Afghanistan"
Which is it? Did the US lose every war like you claim, or are you unwilling to list very clear victories?
😂 😂 😂
Because war and military is a racket. The top 1% get to buy stock and shares in military companies while the public pays for it.
The US has won nearly every war in that time frame
@FrodoSkywalker007 Not Vietnam, we lost that. Some people say Afghanistan, but we weren't there to actually "liberate" them or make them democratic. We were there to get Bin Laden. So, I don't really count it as a war unlike those where we sought to make other places what we are.
@Twalli I'd say you are partially correct with Afghanistan I'll ignore it for now.
In Vietnam, the US protected South Vietnam.
It began a process known as Vietnamization in 1968, and withdrew most of its troops by 1972.
The US left completely in 1973.
North Vietnam launched a new invasion in 1975. The US was not involved.
politicians get in the way. We finally have a President who has the courage to do what needs to be done to win a war but the democrats are fighting him every step of the way.
You have a mentally ill criminal in charge of the entire country. I sometimes wonder how stupid you really are.
Just for reference, everyone agrees except you and the President that the United States is losing this war badly.
The US has won nearly every war since WW2.
The only "defeats" were Vietnam and Afghanistan. They were political disasters that took place years after the US military was no longer fighting.
It was the ARVN and ANDSF that were defeated militarily
@exitseven you are correct. The US is lopsidedly winning the war against Iran.
This is why Iran resorts to regional terrorism to force the US to quit. They largely target civlian areas in Gulf states
UAE minister calls Iran attack on Gulf states ‘almost unhinged’ / Middle East Eye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Y-fIwm-h0
All budgets are stolen from
Vietnam is really the only war we lost.
Politically, yea.
You'd be hardpressed to find many battles or campaigns the US military lost.
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