Are old-school parents being illogical about harsh vs permissive parenting?

[Vesuvius87]

For instance my father was sending me a video about how a young man stopped visiting his father. When the father asked why, the young man replies ''you were too hard on me, harsh reprimands, hard treatment'' and the father then claims how it was because he loves him, for his own good and how his aunt did the opposite (spoiling his son, making no boundaries, no rules, nothing) and her son is now into drugs. Then suddenly the son cries and hugs his father, saying thank you.

Needless to say I still saw inconsistencies in the video. First, what the aunt did was really permissive, not authoritative and firm. The video only shows extremes; that it's either harsh, overly strict and old-school authoritarian (as the only way to bring someone successful) or permissive and soft where you spoil the kid all the times. I see both as unhealthy. The old-school people seem to lack logic in their explanation. They fail to see the middle ground; for them it's either their way or being permissive.

Secondly, the video and old-school people only focus on cases there were successful despite of the treatment meanwhile ignoring the millions of people that didn't make it in life with that treatment, that are still struggling with anxiety, depression and really don't have the natural skills nor talent to achieve more in top major nor have skills to create a business. The harsh treatment alone doesn't make you succeed; you have to have talent and access to the workplace, have money, have other good things compensating for the hardship.

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I know commands that are polar extremes too. Yelling, cursing and saying ''get the F off the couch, now'' and ''Please baby, try to get off the couch, please'' are both extremes. I also think there is a middle ground even in that command, where you don't go on screaming and cursing like a sailor nor pleading with the words please, baby.

[strateguy632]

his reply actually had logic. he wanted the kid to have limits.

of course if he did child abuse like any physical hits, that is a cruel evil person, who should go to jail.

i ended friendships with parents who i knew hit their son. son was a brat but you can't do a crime to punish him.

hitting a helpless child is worse um- should be worse than hitting adult. like hitting the old =bigger punishment! same a smaller kid. those cruel parents should be alone die alone. keep away from bad people including bad parents.

[Vesuvius87]

I view them as cowards and then that poor child grows up accepting the trauma and even glorifying, think it was for their own good. They sound like Stockholm Syndrome victims; they've been brainwashed thinking that getting hit made them respectful, professional people with families.

[NathanDavis]

it would be very very wrong to say that "old-school" parents are bad

more than "old" and "modern" there's just good and bad parents...

most of my family/relatives are indeed "old-school" parents, but they were not bad parents... and for the most part, we're all good enough people, and nobody is fighting anybody like that... or had split apart

two generations back though... not sure what happened, but all those first and second cousins (and their offspring) have been battling civil wars across the US, over lands and properties, inheritnces... lmao

[Vesuvius87]

They might not be bad parents but their parenting style has been scientifically proven harmful. It has no educational benefits and doesn't teach you what can be done to make better decisions nor actually values. It's all about fear-based compliance and just avoiding getting caught doing whatever you got hit.

[NathanDavis]

well, that's definitely not true at all...

because I have plenty of friends and acquaintances who are absolutely great people, in spite of having terrible parents

and also cases in which terrible kids, became less problematic and better people when they were corrected in very bad ways

so... obviously, the "parenting-style" is not the only factor involved

[Vesuvius87]

Well you can be a decade person in spite of the harsh upbringing. I was stating facts that have been proven over decades of research.
As for terrible kids; I believe the parents let the situation progress so much and then went the other way of being harsh. Going from doing nothing in the first years to going harsh, old-school seems like inconsistency parenting. No kid can suddenly be terrible overnight; that's a progress over a long period of time.

[Vesuvius87]

While the parenting style isn't the only factor, it plays a role in someone's cognitive skills and social development.

[NathanDavis]

well... if cognitive skills and social development are the measure

whatever these newer parents are doing... is completely wrong, because these latest generations are the ones regressing, compared to the previous ones

[NathanDavis]

but my point is something else

ABUSIVE parents are ABUSIVE PARENTS

you can't put all of the "old parents" in the same category... that's just wrong

[purplepoppy]

If you treat kids harshly they become fearful of making mistakes and thus fail to learn. They grow up scared to take chances and live in the shadow of being judged.

All you really need to know is if your actions make others sad or might kill you then don't do it unless a grown up let's you.

[Vesuvius87]

Yeah not every single kid is going to thank you for hitting them. They think all of us are going to be grateful of spankings. Sick

[RachyRach]

I was spanked growing up and love my parents still. It's not an excuse for not visiting your parents.

[Vesuvius87]

It's different loving them vs excusing it and saying that's the only reason you're successful when there are more reasons too.

[Vesuvius87]

I still love my father but I'm not going to go glorifying it and saying ''oh thanks to the spankings, I'm now happily married with our son'' when that's not the reason why I'm married. My married life and the long ago physical punishment are separate things, unrelated. My husband and I were lucky to have found each other at the right moment, right time. I nearly didn't make it to motherhood.

[RachyRach]

Well I can say part of the reason I am who I am now is cos my parents spanked me. I see your side to the story but that's my experience.

[Vesuvius87]

Part of the reason is different than people giving full credits to spankings and nor for themselves too. It takes skills to graduate from a long, difficult major as well as create a successful business.

[Anonymous]

It was a different time. Everyone should understand that. Parenting is sooooo different.

[Vesuvius87]

Yeah very different time when many people were ignorant. They failed to realize Maria Montessori was actually advanced for the time. She created an educative school system for kids and her method was actually put to use in 1907. Many, many years later the Montesorri approach would now be known as gentle (authoritative) parenting.

[canamlusciouslad73]

Both are, but loving discpline must sometimes be used to correct children's misbehaviour.

[Vesuvius87]

Yet you can discipline without using fear-based compliance. Several people still think a lack of corporal punishment means lack of discipline but it isn't.

[canamlusciouslad73]

Especially, unfortunately, too many of us black folk, many raised in backwards fundamentalist churches where beating kids is the norm.

[Vesuvius87]

It's very sad indeed. Then they grow up thinking all those beatings made them successful people with professions. They had skills inspite of those beatings, not due to them.

[canamlusciouslad73]

I know. Their parents were brutal peasant a**holes.

[Iron_Man]

Old school parents are the best

[Vesuvius87]

That's because you probably never met a balanced parent. The middle ground tends to be neither punishment nor rewards, neither of them.

[Iron_Man]

They were the best parents in the world true real parents I very own parents

[Vesuvius87]

So a parenting that just hits with a household object and yells out of frustration, just because they're pissed off is the best parent in the world?
They weren't teaching at that moment. They were desperate and already upset, venting out. Anyone can get immediate obedience and a quiet child by doing that. Anyone can parent in that manner. It takes no challenge scaring a child. It's the easiest thing ever.

[Iron_Man]

My parents are not like that good gosh lol come on

[Vesuvius87]

So they spanked you in a calm mood and it the strikes were under control? I've never heard of a parent spanking without being upset. It's always a reactive punishment with a hard weapon like a belt (typical choice for fathers) or hands where you're felt scared and in tears, feeling humiliated. Well that's just my view.

[Iron_Man]

I had a very loving family Christian family and they rewarded me with a lot of high value things and I was kind of spoiled at times. I had a very loving family, but yes, I got my spankings, but that’s a part of life and they were spanked too, so everything goes around and everything was beautiful

[Vesuvius87]

Basically repeating the same upbringing for generations, same exact thing. I decided to go outside the box by breaking the spanking cycle with my son. My husband is a cycle breaker too.
The one thing I fail to understand is if supposedly spankings are the best deterrant ever, why would anyone get spanked for the same offense over and over, why spank many times until their teens years? If it worked then it would either stopped on the first 2 times or rarely be done. Why isn't the child learning already?

[Vesuvius87]

If spanking as the only single approach is done often then that something different has to be done? It's clearly not working if the parent is spanking for the same offense many times.

[Iron_Man]

I was spanked in school until they stopped it later on

[Iron_Man]

Do you think being sent to an air-conditioning room is discipline do you call that time out? Do you think the kid fears that he’s just gonna get in trouble again and do you think by being grounded a week they’re gonna put up with that they’re gonna sneak out the bedroom window and run around when you’re sleeping or when you went to your room

[Iron_Man]

Do you think being sent to an air-conditioning bedroom with a computer or TV inside of it? That’s gonna work and they’re gonna be straightened out and never do that again? Do you think being grounded for a week is going to help? There no fear factor there’s nothing to worry about they’re just gonna do it again and as soon as you go to bed early or sleep in late or retire to your quarters they’re gonna go out of their bedroom window and run around then just come back. They’re gonna push the envelope because there’s no fear factor involved the punishment is a cakewalk sitting in your bedroom is not punishment. They’ll just fall asleep.

[Vesuvius87]

I got suspended once in school and that was enough to make me cry. I was sad about missing school for 5 days, almost being banned from going to the 8th grade banquet and the whole idea of the suspension thing. That's one of the few times, no fear of getting hit was used and it made me sad. I was sad about disappointing my teacher.
To me that was more educational than if I had been hit in school.

[Iron_Man]

Maybe you’ll like this video listen to it. It’s a music video. You’ll figure it out when you hear it..

https://youtu.be/4xmckWVPRaI

[Vesuvius87]

If spankings work then why do you need to get spanked many times? Shouldn't it work once since that's the most severe punishment for a kid?
I believe one needs to be consistent with boundaries and rules. If some kid for some reason can't learn through non-physical consequences and only hitting gets him that's already not normal. I would wonder if there is something wrong with their developmental skills, if they're within the spectrum, etc.

[Iron_Man]

Because like everything else when things are going, good, you test the waters thinking maybe it won’t happen again so you start back to your old ways but then you get caught and it does happen again so it takes a while to get enough spankings to finally learn

[Vesuvius87]

You just proved my point that it's only about avoiding getting caught. I would want my son to make better choices even if he knew he wouldn't get caught and I'm not available. If someone is only good as long as they're under constantly supervision and with the frequent threat of a spanking that tells me nothing about their principles. It makes me think they would cheat on their spouses if they wouldn't get caught instead of already feeling bad for even thinking of cheating. If someone still behaves even when they're not caught and would actually feel guilt doing wrong things, that counts more.

[Iron_Man]

We’re talking about kids here how do you know they’re gonna cheat when they become adults on their wife? I never cheated on my girlfriend and I never did things to get caught or not get caught. I never tried to push people. I just know how kids think

[Vesuvius87]

I'm applying the fear of getting caught and punished into the adult world. Usually a child that's taught by a system of reward and punishment will grow up functioning with that similar system as an adult. While they won't be getting physical punishment anyone as adults, they will face consequences such as getting fired and reported if caught stealing in the workplace for instance.