Stupid Quora noob thinks black belts have "finished learning basics". What do you think of this?

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I told him white belts are taught basics in a real karate and ju jitsu class, and Light Green belt and above is considered "advanced". By the time I was testing for black belt, I knew around 200 submissions, around 50 throwing and sweeping techniques, obviously all basic and advanced striking maneuvers, and over 800 total techniques.

A black belt is supposed to be an Expert. I don't know who keeps giving black belts to children and fools who've barely studied basics, nor do I understand why so many "experts" on quora think a karate black belt can't just kick the legs out from under a pro boxer, or else submit him with any of the 200 submissions we know.

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6 mo

Note: I was taught Isshinryu Karate and Japanese Ju Jitsu in tandem, which is why progression is slower than a pure Isshinryu black belt, because there are also far more total techniques to teach and learn.

[Hagar88]

A black belt has learned the techniques after dedicated years of training but doesn't mean he's any good.
Its very much like a boxer, he might have trained for years but not be very good. Like a childhood friend I trained with, he was never a very good boxer but from what I hear he's an excellent coach. Some of the kids he's coached have won amateur competitions he never did.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I beat the local champion boxer (as in Tri-state area) when I was 16 years old and olny a light green belt in karate. We fought by boxing rules and I beat him at his own sport. We had a 17 year old black belt GIRL who beat me in sparring every time that same year, and I didn't start beating her in sparring "every time" until 2 years later.

If your Black Belt doesn't mean you're GOOD, then you got a paper black belt. A lot of the fighters in the UFC do not even have a black belt, for goodness sake. Most of them are purple and brown belts in one style and have some cross-training in a second style.

I'm a 1st kyu now, and I actually failed my black belt test 6 consecutive times due to a technical flaw in memorization of the last kata, even though I eventually got to where I could beat the second degree black belts in sparring matches pretty easily.

Honest to God, the only reason I didn't go pro as a fighter is I got talked out of it by my family when I was 20 years old. I should have gone pro as a fighter and should have dropped out of college.

[Hagar88]

I beat a karate black belt years ago on the street no gloves. Left hook dropped him and he didn't get up. Was only a single punch as he tried to hit me with straight karate punches and a straight kick. Apparently hooks aren't a karate thing.
UFC guys dont need belts. All they need it boxing, kickboxing, wrestling and some jujitsu and build on that. In the early days of UFC & MMA you had karate black belts getting wrecked.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I trained in Japanese Ju Jitsu and know over 200 submissions. Karate means "empty hands" not "striking only". Anyone who isn't learning submissions is not learning real Okinawan karate.

I was 185lbs when I was 20 years old, with probably less than 1% body fat at the time, when I quit full-time training. If I had fought in the UFC then I damn well could have been a contender in my own weight class, and Heavyweights don't scare me either.

Half the Heavyweights on their roster are just "Overweight" and would get knocked out or submitted by my old Sensei right now, and he's 57 years old this year. The only reason he didn't go pro is he had -10 eye sight and was concerned about fighting in Contact lenses. They used to take 1.5 inch okinawan bos and break them over Sensei's solar plexus and arms and he woudln't even flinch, because he was that damned tough, and he literally taught me 3/4ths of the 200 submissions I know.

Oh, I agree, MOST karate black belts today are in fact half-trained scrubs, that's because the instructors are more interested in making a buck by promoting people ahead of time than they are teaching the real skills.

Anybody who can't block a hook punch is not a real karate black belt.

If you try that against me, I'll break your wrist and then kick your guts out.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

We teach the counter to overhand right and hook punches to no-stripe white belts, because blocking an overhand right is the EASIEST strike in the world to block, and blocking a hook punch is the second easiest strike in the world to block.

If you actually hit an alleged black belt with a one-off hook punch, either you sucker punched him, or else he was a paper black belt who shouldn't have been more than a white belt.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

in response to your other point of your response.

About half of all Japanese Ju Jitsu submissions are in fact directly or indirectly banned by the rules of MMA because they are crippling to near-lethal.

About half of the Isshinryu Karate basics curricula is directly banned by the rules, because the techniques are crippling to near-lethal.

As Mr. Miyagi said, "Karate is for self-defense only."

The guy who won UFC 3, but later lost to Tank Abbot (a super heavyweight) was only around 165lbs and he was a marine corps veteran trained to roughly blue belt level equivalent in the very same style of martial arts I studied, because the Marine Corps Martial Arts program is based heavily in Isshinryu Karate originally, though they've added a few Gracie Jiu Jitsu techniques since that time.

You can look it up. He won his fight in I think 45 seconds by KO/TKO, because he head hunted with STRAIGHT PUNCHES and got full mount immediately and beat the snot out of the other guy immediately. And again, the founder of the MCMAP considers him a BLUE BELT equivalent in Isshinryu Karate.

[Hagar88]

Guy wasn't going to able to block a check left hook. Hed fully committed to that straight left and straight right below the shoulder combo you karate guys like to throw, seen it coming a mile away and was just a matter of throwing that left check hook, my hook landed and I was already out of the way of his punches, nothing he could do. Boxers throw fast and move fast. Boxing is all about throwing a punch and not getting hit in return. I've trained judo, some wrestling and some kickboxing. The few MMA fights I had generally came down to boxing with what id learned from other martial arts stopping me from getting taken down or damage done from heavy kicks. BJJ guy did manage to take me down but struggled punches to the body and ribs and the judo I had allowed me to stop any submissions and stand up, caught him with a right cross and he went down hard. Only had 10 amateur fights, the last two I got absolutely wrecked. Wrestler guy I was beating until got around my back and slammed me to the canvas and waited on me. Another was a Russian sambo guy, he was beating in every category, I finished the fight but I was badly beaten.
youtube.com/shorts/TGyqMqwJa_4?si=ZdXb2iHIYPBl9hec

[SeekerOfTruth007]

You don't know anything about what I like to throw in a full contact fight.

I never throw the first punch, first of all. i don't know about other Karate styles, but there are at least 15 basic hand strikes in Isshinryu karate, and that includes hook punches and uppercuts.

I fight "Switch" and I tend to attack with a double-jab and a hook off the lead hand, and straight cross off the back foot. I'm well aware of how to use hook punches and the "good" hook punch vs the "bad" hook punch.

You also didn't say what your amateur or pro experience was earlier, and that matters.

If the other supposedly black belt fighter over-committed to an attack, that's his fault and proves he was inferior anyway.

Anyway, I always wait for the other guy to attack first, then I counter attack with whatever seems appropriate in that moment. You have to adapt to the opponent in a real fight. A plan is only good until the first punch or kick happens.

[Hagar88]

I make em miss and make em pay. Create angles, throw a lunch to create an opening

[Chazmatazz269]

Black belt is not considered “expert”. It merely reflects a degree of mastery. There are degrees of black belts because there are degrees of mastery. I don’t know a single legitimate martial arts master who considers themselves an “expert” in the sense that they know everything there is to know and there is no room for improvement.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I didn't say there was no room for improvement, guy. You're making a strawman argument.

It takes more hours to get a black belt in a real style of Martial Arts than it does to get a Bachelor's Degree from a Major University.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Yeah, a Bachelors is a little over 2000 classroom hours at University.
A Black Belt from my old Sensei required over 4000 classroom hours, which is actually more supervised instruction than PhD's in Physics have.

I checked the official world minimum syllabus on Googledotcom for Isshinryu Karate alone, and it says a 1st degree black belt is permitted to do full-time instruction and a 1st kyu is permitted to do assistant instruction. BROWN BELT in Isshinryu alone is considered "Advanced", much less when it is taught with the full Japanese Ju Jitsu style combined into one fighting system, as my old sensei only ranked us up when we met both criteria.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

By the way, belts above 5th degree black belt are purely ceremonial, as the Fighting Requirement stops at 4th Dan. When Kano, the Judo founder, founded Judo (meh) there were only 5 ranks of black belt. Ranks above 5th degree were added later as world population grew and the total number of people training in martial arts grew, but by the time you get a 4th Dan you are technically supposed to "know everything your instructor knows". The only requirements above 4th dan tend to be teaching requirements.

Here is the total training I have:

Isshinryu Karate and Japanese Ju Jitsu with 4th Dan instruction: about 4000 total hours.
Isshinryu Karate and Japanese Ju Jitsu with 7th Dan instruction: About 200 additional hours.
Isshinryu Karate and Tai Chi with 6th Dan instructor: 50 hours
Hindi Andi Gung Fu with 6th Dan instructor: 50 hours
Other Martial arts: 100 hours with again 6th Dan instructors.

Gracie BJJ starting off and on in 2016: 1.5 years with then 4th degree Gracie black belt instructor.

Gracie BJJ @ Dana White's UFC gym: About 2 months (they were better than Raphael Elwanger the 4th degree above, in spite of only being ranked 2nd degree BB.)

So technically, I never passed my sensei's black belt test, due to never memorizing Sunsu Kata correctly, but I have more total training than a Physics PhD has in his profession.

My Black Belt testing lasted for 6 months and I kept failing it because of failing to memorize one sequence of Sunsu kata.