The "Warm Up Girls"

[pavlove]

Introverted men, rejoice! For I've decided to share a secret but obvious way of doing well at clubs bars and parties even if you aren't a naturally extrovert.

An more introverted person is going to spend more time inside their head. He or she is going to take more "warm up" time to get out of the imagination and thought and into the world around them. It doesn't matter if they are amazingly charismatic and kill it at social gatherings...if they don't go out regularly they will just not often be "feeling it." At first...

Such is the need for the "warm up girls." They are simply girls that are the calibur you'd like to talk to, but you have no intention of "getting them." Instead, you go into the interaction knowing you will get blown out. You expect it. You even WANT IT. This is because you know that as you warm up you get yourself into a state that can't be faked or forced. You are becoming one with your social senses. You are becoming alive to the party.

The two thoughts that are going through your head are a) are you seriously just writing a take about just talking to girls and failing? Well, the thing about confidence and "oneness" with social setting aren't always the same thing. You think it's just a confidence issue, but it's sometimes just an issue of being out of the zone. As an introvert, you just don't enjoy people that much and that's the honest truth of it. You don't live to hang out with your friends. To suggest a thought is deserving of mocking laughter not serious consideration. Yet, you want to "pull off" a great night when you want to. You want to attract the girl of your dreams when you want then fall into a book the next moment.

The Warm Up Girls don't mind being warm up girls and will do wonders to your level of "on-ness." It's a sort of energetic charisma which is infectious. Not only will you have the success you want, but even girls aside you'll feel like you just did an incredible line of cocaine or for my non-drug using brethern, you'll feel like you can conquer the world.

The important thing again is to not to go down after rejection but to go up. With each girl you are getting hotter and hotter and more and more in your zone. You are feeling the party more and more you are feeling yourself more and more and then you'll be feeling her and her and her. Yes, a very naturally extroverted male can simply arrive in this state and live in this state, but he's also most times an idiot since reading Tolstoy gives him a headache.

Live free. Adapt the World to Your Strengths. And Conquer.

[LittleSally]

Practice makes perfect - to sum up. xD

Very true. The more you do it, the less in your head you are about it. It becomes natural, mechanical.

[Anonymous]

As an introvert

no thank you...

[Humping_Tornadoes]

Nonsense, I don't go out my way to try and hit a chick that I'm not attracted to try and escalate things from there, with other chicks. Not because I can't handle rejection (I wouldn't be able to count the times I've been rejected), but because I've actually learned to value myself (at least what little value I have in the dating market). And thanks, but no thanks since I'm not interested in inflating girls egos to eventually have sex.

Most introverts also, are very well aware of how much of a hassle it is to go to clubs to get laid. This is something extroverts enjoy doing, not introverts. Extroverts enjoy keeping their popular social circles alive, they also enjoy all the effort of dressing stylish, spending money on gasoline, ticket entrances, buying drinks/spend money on liquor, the effort of taking care of a girl they barely know, etc. It's just too much investment of time and many other things for an introvert.

If this is the way extroverts find success, to each their own. But I'd say introverts who actually try with women (not all since some don't even begin trying) would do better dating and meeting girls in other settings until they get disappointed over and over again and eventually stop taking girls seriously.

I'm pretty much an introvert but since I like doing social activities like skating, biking, surfing and sometimes gym I have taken more chances with having friendships and meeting women.

But for example, I have a long time friend who was a serious introvert in his adolescent years. He studied engineering a started finding success in his career. He started taking care on his looks (no homo the guy grew up good looking bloke), and has used his intelligence and probably attention to details to his advantage. I think he has been in three major relationships (no idea of hook ups and all shit) but it seems all three girl fuck him up good to the point where he doesn't take women seriously anymore.

Needless to say, with his success and current attitude to things girls are all over the guy, it's amazing how it turned out for him. I was speaking with my friend Kathy the other day and she said "I just saw Marco, he's looking good I can't believe how sexy he is", I asked her what made him sexy, and she said "I don't know, he just doesn't care he is so easy going" (Bingo!).

There many other ways introverts may find success and they're far from frequent clubs and investing their time and effort in that nonsese.

Just dropping my two cents here.

[pavlove]

no it's not that you're not attracted to her.

basically you're attracted to her but you're giving up getting her because you realize you're going into "out of the zone" to make it happen. once you get blown out a couple times whether it's soft or harsh that's what gets you in the "zone." in fact the first few girls should be hot because it's sort of working out the fear of failure so you're just concentrating on having fun and success

[Humping_Tornadoes]

Oh, I guess I missed that first part.

Hmm, ok. I guess that something extroverts also enjoy doing, put themselves in the spotlight to get stuff, something introverts would prefer doing in the dark, so to speak. I just think (just as in the other things I mentioned) fun can't be forced, specially when it defies personality, self-esteem/value for an introvert. I mean, it's like pushing for female validation to the max, no idea how a serious introvert would deal with that.

[Anonymous]

You do cocaine? :P

What was that last jab there? What the fuck is a Tolstoy? Oh he's an author lol.

I know I know. You think I'm going to hate on you on this one. I'm not. In fact I agree with this. I haven't done it in-person yet but I've done it online/apps. I'll purposely say what I want. I don't just say "Hey want sex?". No because like you said I'm a thinker. I like to think. I like to chew on people's brains a little. It's not that I wouldn't say it, but it's just I have no interest in it at that time.

Like you pointed out I just talk freely to them. Some things come out weird. I may not say something that's "politically correct" or "smooth talking". I'm not a smooth talker. I'm not going to slither inside a girl's heart. Nope. I'm going to take a hammer and a nail and pick her brain. If she doesn't like it fine. Goodbye.

In many cases it doesn't work, and I don't feel like I'm becoming a more smoother talker. What I do feel like is that I grow individual strength. In other words I try to "Out stuck up" those who are "stuck up" and I think it's amusing. It's entertainment. The girls who are level headed I get along with. The ones who think the world owns them something I split off quickly. Again I don't just quit talking to them (if I can help it). I try to pick every little piece of her ego off as I can lol. For fun.

In real life I've yet to do such a thing, but I don't feel I need to. Girls will tell you want they want in real life. They are superficial online but in the real world when they want you they WANT you. I already have the power. Don't really go to clubs or bars or parties but even in such a setting you can easily tell if a girl wants you.

I still think awfully highly of myself in real life situations, and usually if I'm nervously attracted to her (because I am shy) then I try to make her just as nervous. Why? Because then I know she feels the same way I do. Either I make the situation really awkward and she blows me off or I make it awkward and she falls into submission. That's the easy route for an introvert in my opinion.

[pavlove]

"You think I'm going to hate on you on this one." Ha, you know me well.

I'm very glad to hear all your thoughts on this and regarding it being the easy route... eh, I don't think so. It's all done for playfulness and we're both young enough that it's semi-charming

[Opinion Owner]

I'm actually closer to your age than you think. The bracket thing isn't right.

Yeah I guess it won't work when I'm older, but then again I don't plan on going after girls at 30 40 years old. By then I plan on having a family and all.

[Anonymous]

Good take. I'm just so shy at clubs and bars. See all these hot girls getting it on and crazy with these guys that are big partiers and macho dudes it makes me feel so awkward. When I do see amazingly hot girls that seem way out of my league, I either think they would never go for me, sexually or romantically, or have boyfriends. Both usually end up to be true. Especially the latter.

I'm just an average looking guy, nothing special and I just figure they wouldn't be into me. You think I should just suck it up and go for it wanting rejection? Good point, but seems so difficult. The boyfriend thing is what makes it tough too.

[pavlove]

yeah, you should. it's something that just can't be mentally destroyed it has to just happen so you can rev up...

[Opinion Owner]

i've been rejected a couple times, ignored, its tough especially when i see them get all freaky with the party guys. The type of guys in your pics. I'm a few years older maybe thats a factor, but sometimes your right, its a confidence thing. I take it you're pretty good with girls at bars and clubs?

[Mandycandy42]

I would try to block out the images of the "cool guys" or "party guys" and focus on being you without comparing. Yes girls have a preference and end up with the partiers due to them being approached so much in the settings, and they're good with them. The boyfriend thing is an issue I do agree and I would just be another reason to reject a guy. If they boyfriend was around it may cause an issue, but thats a risk you just have to take, Usually its not a big deal..

[Tellytubby]

I know how you feel. I think the trick is to do it without trying to get laid. It takes some of the pressure off.

For example a few weeks ago (just before Chistmas) I stopped in the pub after a hard day at work because I just didn't really want to go home yet. Just a quick beer, read the paper and cool down before facing the housemates (I live in a shared house in Camden central London). Unfortunately the pub was incredibly busy. The only place I could get a seat was on a table next to a hot girl. I don't know why this was the only seat not taken - maybe guys were intimidated to sit there. So I ask her if I can sit down and she smiles and says no problem. We get talking because I'm wearing a suit and she's a tourist so she was interested to talk to a local and about my job (I've got quite an interesting job to be fair). We get on really well and get drunk. I get her number.

From nothing - wasn't looking to approach her, wasn't looking to get laid, wasn't a "warm up girl".

[Prof_Don]

As funny as this sounds, you need to inflate your ego. Your ego is too low. You care too much about how you are compared to others.

For me personally I'm not an optimal female hunter in the nightclub scene either, because my main talent is mental & emotional stimulation through conversation... and nightclub scenes are loud and nonverbal most of the time.

You don't have to be a "party guy". You just have to be a more shameless, confident version of the self you already are. "Assume the sale", assume the woman wants you, truly believe in your soul that this woman WILL find you sexually attractive... and you'll be shocked how contagious that vibe is!

[pavlove]

@Prof_Don it works. as much as you can push confidence and self acceptance is everything but this works and that can't really be denied

[Opinion Owner]

Ok I will try to test this theory, but going out alone is kind of a turnoff I would imagine to hot girls anyway, Many are several years younger then me, but it's the type I like and are surrounded by. Definitely want to hookup, and definitely will try and put more of an aggressive ego into it flirting then asking for their numbers, for "later" But don't want to be an asshole. Wouldn't mine a real relationship coming out of one too. There are usually other guys like the ones I mentioned, but will try to just block them out. I should be like them? Will probably get rejected all of the time, but well, don't want to think like that either.

[Mandycandy42]

Yea I completely agree with you! It's definitely one of the best ways for a guy to "man up" so to speak and grow a thicker skin. Guys need to do this, need to go to bars and clubs more, need to get rejected often and just learn the game and how to talk to people in general. Especially girls. and "hot" girls especially.

[pavlove]

thanks!

[AL2000]

Are you talking about introverted guys approaching hot women for hookups, to expect rejection, or just chatting and meeting in general at bars and clubs?

[ArtDent]

Why do guys 'need' to speak and grow a thicker skin and go to bars and clubs more?

It couldn't possibly be because you get pleasure out of rejecting men, is it?

[JSmuve]

I like the premise and think it could work if the guy truly doesn't care about rejection at all and is just there to pull whoever will go with him. But I think it fails if the guy does care about rejection. If he gets shot down by the warmup girls that could seriously fuck with a dudes confidence and take him out of the zone, putting him further into his head.

Its like the senior football team taking on the junior team before the season starts to shake off the rust. We all expect the senior team to win but what happens when the jv team runs a 50-3 game on the seniors? That wouldn't inspire much confidence. Confidence breeds success no matter what you're doing and seeing yourself succeed breeds confidence so I don't see how purposely getting shot down before you can say two sentences helps much for an introvert who may or may not have much confidence in his club game.

[pavlove]

well but i said it should be hot girls... the warm up girls. i guess it's like a senior team who haven't played together in so long for some reason finally get together they accept they won't win the first few games but that will rev them up and then they will go undefeated from there

[Enaya]

Treat a girl as a warm up girl in any life scenario and be prepared to be cut up boy

[pavlove]

lol whatcha mean?

[Enaya]

Flirting practice on a new acquaintance for practice on a hotter woman later on? If I was the first woman and figured it out, I would cut you

[pavlove]

haha noo its not that you'll get flirting just that you'll get more into the zone. like practicing soccer on the sidelines before you go into the game so you're not going in cold. both women could be equally hot just the second one has the benefit of you not going in directly after a tough day at the office where you still don't really want to be there if that makes sense

[Enaya]

It sounds wrong when you apply it on women you know, think about it.

[TayTay21]

Grow up.

[SomeOtherGuy]

I get what the pavlove is talking about.

It's not starting out on a lower rung and working your way up. It's the opposite. Start on a high rung where you know you'll be rejected. You go in knowing they'll say no.

Just apply an interaction, ask them for their numbers after, and walk away with no illusion about it.
It makes you realize that rejection isn't the end of you.

It's important you go in expecting to FAIL. That way when you are rejected, you won't feel devastated.
The whole exercise is meant to let you be yourself. When you don't fear rejection, you stop caring what other people think.

After that, you become genuine.
It stops being about applying some moves and going off a script.
And if you are rejected, you don't get mad, cause you knew you were gonna fail.

Theoretically, of course. But from my experience, this is good advice.

[pavlove]

@SomeOtherGuy thank you, man. you get me well.

[rjroy3]

You'd be surprised. I've done this before with a friend. We tried to see who could get turned down by the most girls. The more we got into it, expecting the rejection because that was the goal.. the harder it got lol. a lot of girls were really into it, because of the vibe we gave off.

Vibe=mental state aka "the zone".
What he's saying in this post is pretty accurate. When you're out of your head and more in the moment you give off a better vibe that girls will be into. But I think you misread what he's talking about.

[pavlove]

@rjroy3 exactly and you can't always just be in the zone when you first get there

[redeyemindtricks]

If you are super-introverted, though, wouldn't you... um, well, not want the kind of girls you'd meet at these places? What am I missing?

[pavlove]

introverted guys are horny too

[redeyemindtricks]

Girls at the library, at the gym, at cafés, on hiking trails, etc. are every bit as horny, dude. Probably hornier, since nerdier/more introverted people have more vivid imaginations (this is a well-known fact).

Oh, and, if you hit the goldmine of same-day sex, they won't be tired, cranky, and shit-sloshing drunk, either.
(;

Also, you'll know this if you go out a lot, but, bars/clubs on Fridays and Saturdays are TOTALLY THE WORST nights for you to go out trying to score. If it's Fri/Sat and we're not on a date, we're probably hanging out with 10 girlfriends, and really we don't want to bother with male company. Might tease, leave, go home. Like, you're pretty much giving yourself the longest possible odds, there.

[pavlove]

i disagree. first, library gym cafe's hiking trails... those SELDOM have same day sex. It's possible. It's just not likely considering the state of mind a woman is in during. Consider that a woman can makeout with a guy at a club and give her number to him then when he calls the next day she never responds. A lot more heat of the moment activity that when done well enough can lead to same night sex. an ideal situation during the day would be talking for a while and agreeing to meet later that night which would obviously lead to sex but even with that there's a greater possibility of a flake or change of heart or a third option of her deciding your boyfriend material since you met in a cute way like walking dogs and not humping in a club. so for hooking up--i say guys should stick with clubs and if they happen in their day to hit it off with a girl get her number and try to schedule something but don't rely on it as a main source of hook up happiness like you do with the club

[redeyemindtricks]

No offense, but it sounds like you're speaking from theory rather than experience. Also, sober hookups >>> drunk hookups, no?

I mean... I dunno, dude, I dunno. Forced interaction is pretty easy to detect, and it's almost impossible to pretend you're having a good time.

Is it that hard to find girls in the greater outside world who wanna fuck?

Like, okay, I know it's not the easiest thing in the world for everyone... but, is it worth throwing yourself into an environment where you want to escape "into a book the next moment"? Seems like that'd be worth neither the effort, nor the uncertainty, nor the sloppy drunk reward.

Mb I just don't get it.

[pavlove]

yea pretty much you don't get it

what you don't understand is that no one wants just one thing. some guys don't naturally love going out but love aspects of it and so they opt to just meet girls rhe way you said and it's not as fun or fulfilling

there's a thrill to a Same day hookup I think you're missing which is fine

[redeyemindtricks]

Nah, I get that much. The spark is there, or it's not. I mean, my whole life, if something hasn't started right away with a guy, then he just gets filed into the "adoptive brother" category. (With my now-husband of 15 years, we waited all of 2 hours... and that was mostly for logistical reasons.)

In fact, I am so totally on the same page with you there, that I literally don't understand when people tell these "oh, we were friends for x months/years and then started dating" stories. Like, just do not get.

But, I'm telling you, those sorts of things are not limited to the nightlife circuit.

I speak from my own experience, and my man's. Lord knows how many women that boy has "collected" in his life. But, the only full time jobs he's ever had have been in the nightlife industry, leaving him to do his thing in the afternoons and whatnot. Trust me, that boy had no problem bedding a whole black book full of same-day conquests on Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs afternoons. No problem at all.

[BigJake]

@redeyemindtricks I'm the kind of guy who prefers to meet girls outside of places like bars and clubs, but I'll be the first to tell you that most girls you meet out and about have up massive defenses against any guy who might try to talk to them. It's not easy at all to make social contact with women you see at random places, because most of them aren't interested in meeting a guy while they're shopping or reading a book at Starbucks. It takes a lot to break through to girls and make a real connection.

[krash2002]

Hope you both don't mind me chiming in here.

I happen to have to agree with Pavlove. Of course there are girls at the library, cafe, and other local hot spots that tend to have single girls, but I believe Pavlove is speaking purely to the idea of having an one night stand, or just bringing a girl home to then maybe continue on hooking up later.

I myself am an introvert, and when I was single. I had much more luck at bars than at the cafe. Now, my luck was only in the sense of hooking up, and not going on dates. If you want to get a date with a girl. Then try to meet her at a cafe. If you want to just hook-up. Then meeting a girl at a club or bar is your best shot.

At clubs, girls are in the mindset of hooking up more so than at a cafe.

[pavlove]

@krash2002 haha i love how everyone acts like agreeing with me is some painful burden they have to undertake

[krash2002]

@pavlove - I think the burden stems from the idea that even though we live in a more promiscuous world. The idea of speaking openly about it hasn't yet come into fruition. Therefore, people still hide their feelings upon the matter, and treat it as if it's taboo.

[ArtDent]

Funny that none of my encounters, including same day sex, began at a bar or club. I guess I don't get it either. *shrug

[brain5000]

How super-introverted is "super-introverted?" A super-introvert might never feel lonely or seek a woman's company. If a super-introverted man was going to seek a woman's company at a gym, café, library or hiking trail, why _wouldn't_ he also hit a club, where he knows there are a preponderance of single, available women seeking a man?

Hitting on a woman and flirting in one of the places you mentioned are places where women might already have male companionship or are generally not seeking it. You're suggesting a lonely introvert would exclude the most likely place he'll find a receptive woman, just because there are *shudder* people there? Uh, wut?

I read all of the comments on this thread and I feel like a goofball because I am apparently the only one who doesn't understand your comment.

[brain5000]

The more I think about it, the harder it is to think of places where it would be harder to strike up a conversation with someone than a library (aren't we supposed to be quiet?), hiking trail (not many people hike while looking for the perfect companion. They are usually there with their perfect companion), café (seriously? the cute girl with her nose in a book? or laptop? phone?) or worst of all, gym - where women don't have their hair done, scant make-up, in what they surely often perceive as unflattering tight clothes.

[brain5000]

.. and because they don't feel they look their best, they come off as uncomfortable with male approach.

[Tarvold]

This is a suboptimal way of doing things.

I advocate the complete opposite approach. Go and practice talking to hot women at Hooters and strip clubs. Those girls are paid to be there to talk to you, and the chances are, they're out of your league. If you can get comfortable talking to them, you'll be comfortable talking to anyone. Bonus is that you're not leading anyone on, so it's by far an ethically superior approach.

[pavlove]

they're paid to talk to you so they'll talk to you regardless of whether they're comfortable

[Tarvold]

I thought your goal was to overcome your own introversion?

[pavlove]

it's not something to overcome it's just a preference so when you're feeling very introverted you have to get out of that preference temporarily

[simplyadorable]

@Dave20154 ig this approves your idea. lol

[the_rake]

Yep you can spend the whole night doing this, it's ten times better than being a wallflower, even if you don't get laid. Personally, I don't have more anxiety talking to hot girls than girls I have low investment in though. Cold approach is difficult regardless of the woman because she is still a stranger to you.

[pavlove]

because with strangers it's easier to get the rejection because again you're going in cold

[the_rake]

Sure, getting rejected by people in your social circle can effect your reputation and mess you up. I avoid it actually. But there's disadvantages to cold approach - e. g. you are talking to a woman who you have no commonality with, so no socially acceptable excuse for talking to her, except that you both happen to be drinking at the same bar. She can also make out like you are harassing her.

[ChromAzonyx108]

You said that warm-up girls "are the calibur you'd like to talk to, but you have no intention of 'getting them.'" What do you mean by this?

Like on a scale of 1 to 10, do you mean approaching a 7 you aren't interested in and then approaching a 7 you are interested in? Or do you mean progressively going from 7 to 8 to 9, etc?

[pavlove]

like they're hot enough but because you designated them warm up girl they are just something to get you in the zone and not girls you're going to really try to get things going with

[brain5000]

This is great. I have done this, not realizing it was a thing. Upvote/great take!

[pavlove]

thank you man!

[BigJake]

Hey, to each, his own. I don't do bars and clubs for a lot of reasons. The problem with what you're suggesting is that introverted guys are never going to be good at the hard sell, and to be honest, lots of us have no interest in pitching that stuff. I prefer to meet girls in my normal life. It's harder, but the girls you meet are also of much higher quality than those that are found in clubs. I'll leave the club scene to the guys who are just out for an easy piece of ass.

[pavlove]

i don't believe that. it will never be as natural for sure, but that's like saying an extrovert won't ever be able to read as fast or retain as much as an introvert even if they have the right guidance. i could teach any extrovert to be as great a reader/writer as I am though I'd doubt they'd want to but maybe...

people want excuses not to take action

[BigJake]

What does being an extrovert have to do with reading comprehension skills? LOL in case you're wondering, the answer is, "nothing." I don't think you really understand the nature of introversion vs. extroversion.

As far as taking action goes, speak for yourself, buddy. I have a girlfriend and have enjoyed my dating life when I've been single. I don't do hookups, but I don't have a problem meeting girls. I'm not a bullshitter, so I don't do the hard sell club shtick as you're suggesting because it invariably comes off as forced and fake. Club girls may not care, but I'll let you know the first time I'm in the market for club girls.

[TheEvil]

Why on earth Introvert has to meet another Introvert in completely Extrovert setting such as bar?

No thanks. Rather, I would prefer to read a book than going for self humiliation because "party girls" aren't capable enough of seeing beyond my brown face. And introvert girls I want to meet are not interested to come out of their home.

[queenmariereigns]

So pretty much this is another version of a practice girl to you guys.

[pavlove]

noo practice girl is like ugly girl who will auto accept you

warm up girl is a pretty girl who will auto reject you

[TheHooptyMiata]

THIS. I have a motto - 29 failures and a success, is a success.

[NightmareNeal]

Perfect practice makes perfect. Practicing to get rejected is ridiculous. I wouldn't say prepare to be rejected but prepare for anything because you really never know the outcome.

[pavlove]

rejection is humbling and makes you realize you had nothing to fear at all because it's not nearly as bad as most men expect

[NightmareNeal]

Yes, true but won't these men get rejected anyways and if not already have been rejected in past experiences? You feel so low of yourself that you expect to be a reject. I think people like this need confidence more then anything. Starting your night off with a rejection sounds silly.

[DizzyAster]

Well, I have to say if you can't take a little rejection, maybe you shouldn't step up at all.

[pavlove]

it's not about that. everyone gets rejected for something at some point... confident men don't get overly-upset at it and don't think less of themselves when their charms don't work. They move on and have fun. Yet, if you've not experienced much rejection it can seem daunting... that's why letting go of the pressure to succeed for at least one or two girls by intentionally failing helps get you in the zone where the possibility of being rejected has no affect on you whatsoever

[NightmareNeal]

I see

[OpenWine]

I see the logic behind it but to me rejection doesn't ever build me up. the fact that I tried is enough to keep me up but having a lot of rejections just because of a "warm up" would make me wanna go home in an instant

[brain5000]

Because you know you won't success, you don't _get_ rejected. Rather you enter in _already_ rejected. That's the beauty of it - no pressure to succeed, you have already failed!

It's all about goals!

[DizzyAster]

Understood.
However, I like to think of it as hoping for the best, expecting the worst.
The best is her saying yes, the worst is her laughing.
I've never gotten the worst.

[pavlove]

there's more personal growth in the worst though i think...

[DizzyAster]

I meant that I never got laughed at. Most girls are not mean like that. If I did, I'd back out slowly.

[Anonymous]

This mytake seems to encourage inflating women's ego while making you look even more pathetic.

[Anonymous]

As an introvert, I always had a problem with making contact with girls, because I'm too shy and lack self-confidence... I guess that's why I'm still a virgin in my late 30's :(

[pavlove]

keep pushin' brother!

[Opinion Owner]

I'll try, thanks.

[Tellytubby]

Have you looked bro cogbitive behavioural therapy? It can really help self esteem issues. Talking to a pro will help.

[Opinion Owner]

@Tellytubby No, not yet, but I'll try...