Sorry, I don't date mutilated males, no matter what they claim to be, and no matter what clothes they are wearing. It honestly pisses me off how transgender people say "OH I'm a woman because i ACT LIKE ONE", well aren't you sexist to the core, assuming all you need to do to BE and QUALIFY as a *female* is to act in a "feminine way" according to gender roles, and adhere to "feminine clothing" according to gender expectations, and use a "feminine voice" and have "feminine hairstyle"? Sorry man, your chromosomes define that you're male, even if you chop your parts off that would serve as obvious proof.
My answer is obviously No. As much as I'd like to support liberalism, this is just something I can't accept. Claiming to be something you aren't, according to a BIOLOGICAL DEFINITION, is deceptive, delusional, and overall kind of dumb. So, no. I'm not interested in mutilated abominations.
Also, that was surprisingly harsh. Apparently I'm still resentful against all the people who claim "but if She feels as a Woman, then She is one! Who are you to Judge Her for Her feelings and tell Her how She should feel!" well you know what? Grab a biology book, read what a male and a female is defined as, then come back to me and say that you're a woman by claiming to be one. Prove that your chromosome structure, which defines your biological structure, aka the fact that you have a "male body", is in dissonance with what you ACTUALLY are. Because you are not defined by your genes, but by this random feeling that you don't adhere to gender roles, therefore you probably are not what you "feel" you are. And all that testosterone produced by your scrotum and the AMH that destroyed your vagina was a 'biological error'. Right. Good luck with that.
Short answer: Never.
If you disagree, then tell me how I'm wrong.
agreed with this deserving MH. Saying someone is what they 'feel' they are could be true, within reason. In the end though, gender is determined by chromosomes rather than what genitalia or whethesr your traits be 'feminine' or masculine.
I'm 5'10 and not a tiny, delicate little girl, does that make me any less of a female or more masculine due to being on the tall side? Genitals, breasts, high-pitched voices, etc. do not decide your gender in the end.
I'll need to clarify though, the exact procedure is this: XX chromosomes form the ovaries, while XY chromosomes form the scrotum. If you have XY chromosomes, then you start producing testosterone and AMH, this destroys the tube that would become the vagina. Once you have an ovary, you produce extra estrogen. If you have scrotum, you produce extra testosterone. This is what defines your secondary sex traits at puberty.
While it is possible to have an SRY gene on an XX chromosome, it's an extremely rare condition. Same for PAIS which is a result of testosterone/AMH immunity, and therefore not developing into male phenotype despite XY chromosome. Intersex conditions are biological errors.
However, as it should be pretty clear: if you have properly developed into a certain sexual phenotype, you're pretty much that sex. I personally do not think anyone should deceive others about their sex just because they don't adhere to the gender expectations linked to that particular sex.
There have been studies that prove that transgender people have a brain structure that at some parts more closely resembles the structure typically seen in the opposite sex. However, this does not change the fact that they're still trying to "express their dissonance with themselves" via using traditional values of femininity and masculinity, expectations provided for each gender such as pants or skirts, and pretty much trying to be as close to the concept of what's expected of a proper man/woman; aka adult male/female. However, that doesn't change the fact that biologically, they're STILL what they originally were. And just because you chop off their genitals, you construct another one, you add silicon for breasts and let their hair grow out, wear some makeup and skirt, put on some mascara and maskery to hide the fact you were once a biologically defined male: you're still male. You just did your best to hide it. And mutilated yourself to never need to see it again.
Display of your gender to hide your biological sex, stating you're "mentally the other gender" just because you behave in a way that is not traditionally expected of your sex: you're still the sex you were born with. Therefore, all of this is self-deception. I think it's disrespectful to anyone whom you claim yourself to be part of the opposite gender to, as you are NOT the opposite sex, and you're just putting on an act. So, that's that. That's my clarification.
Please note that this resonates even more-so towards hostility from me, because I'm an advocate of counteracting the concept of separate 'gender' to begin with, I think social expectations and gender roles towards members of a particular sex is detrimental on the long term. Maintaining this by going SO overboard that you can even CLAIM to be the other sex by displaying these characteristics, is against everything I'd like to achieve in the world. Even though the fight seems futile.
More info on that part here: www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1026543-why-care-about-femininity-masculinity-when-you-re-technically
This won't be my most popular 'opinion' :D
I hope at least someone will read my full story below on how it's actually constructed. And of course, hopefully they won't pull a LauraMarx and block me without a word, haha. That's just evil.
I'll add this for layman terms:
"In terms of gender"
The simplified version of this statement is the following:
"If you want a duck, then something that quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, feels that it is a duck, and had feathers attached to it with plastic surgery but is actually a dog, should suffice to you as a duck, because otherwise you're a disrespectful backwards-thinking asshole".
I enjoy reading your essays supporting your premises.
I assure you you won't be trayvonned.
If you're not being sarcastic, thanks :D although I am not sure what trayvonning means, and even after checking the urban dictionary I am still confused in this context.
Look up George Zimmerman vs trayvon martin
I've got better survival instincts than that.
Certainly.
I could date someone who was trans, that'd be just fine.
I do think it depends on how late people transition. Later life transitions tend to be... unconvincing. But assuming they knew they wanted the change, say, in their mid 20s or earlier, they normally blend right in.
My only condition really, would be that we talked about her state prior to intimate contact.
Particularly if she was pre-op. While nothing would be a dealbreaker, I want to know what exactly she wants or doesn't want from me.
What would stop me from dating a transgender person would be the capacity of natural reproduction, because he wouldn't be able to supply any sperm. That's that.
If I was a guy, I don't know, I think the same reason would apply as to why I wouldn't date a transgender girl, because in spite of all the changes, you still miss that very important bit. Other than that... I would date a transgender person, it would just get difficult and probably problematic when attempting to take the "next step".
Wait for the "but you can replace that with adiption and sperm banks, and why would you treat a person differently because of their child creation capabilities - then what about infertile women and men" argument...
It can get very tangled and complicated when you try to be politically correct. I have no problem about them being part of a plural society, our society. I have even subscribed to trans people's YouTube channels because they're fun and have another vision of life, but I when it comes down to choosing, I choose a male-born partner and that's that. Trans guys don't have to desire me, I don't have to desire them and that's quite final, u kno.
All of the guys on here will say no, but in the real world there are guys who would be fine with it. It'll probably have a lot to do with whether or not she's pretty and feminine, but that's how all girls are judged.
Honestly I feel the very same way.. She is a beautiful woman both inside and out she is fashionable and fun to be around if I was a guy I would totally date her but I'm sure there is a guy out there for her..
See, if she has all of those great qualities then she'll definitely find someone.
You'd literally have to be completely shallow to like someone for merely their sense of fashion and feminine looks rather than what they actually are.
I notice you said "what" and not "who" and that lets me know that I probably don't want to hear your opinion.
Both of them matter. I don't trust someone who lies to me about themselves.
"Post-Op" means that they chop off his penis and reconstruct a vagina in place of it artificially. I still vote for 'no matter how you mutilate yourself, you're still not a female'. That's like saying that if I add silicone in place of my breasts, I'll have natural D-cups.
The asker didn't say anything about her friend not telling guys the truth, so I don't understand your trust issue. Like I thought though, I don't agree with your opinion. I don't care what sex someone was born as, I only care what sex they identify as. That's just me though.
It seems highly unlikely, if you think about it. The male body destroys the vagina at about the time the scrotum is formed, using the AMH hormone. Also, I've read that often they don't even feel anything from it, considering there are no nerve endings there, or if there is, it totally isn't what it should be, haha. As I said, it's more along the term of mutilation and artificial reconstruction rather than transition.
@biggie, from what I've read it feels very similar, but requires a good amount of lube.
Well I did not know I was going to cause all of this but its good to know where people in this day and age really stand.. :( some are on my side but most are not kinda messed up if you ask me..
I really don't think you should take the opinions of the guys on here to heart asker. This relatively small group of guys doesn't represent the entire male population. If you want something to give your friend hope you should Google "transwomen in relationships" or something like that. Show her people who are in her situation who are living happy, full lives.
@biggie that's your right and your choice. It's not guys saying they wouldn't date her that makes me mad, it's the name calling and acting like her friend is less than human just because she feels like she was born in the wrong body and is taking action to fix the problem. A simple "no, I want someone who was born a woman" is a lot different than "fuck no, that's disgusting. He's just a guy who mutilated himself." I don't value the opinions of people who act like jerks.
Honestly, I'm not sure what else I could call someone who was born as a biological male, then went and bought plastic surgery that would make him LOOK like a female. Same as saying that constructing an artificial penis over your vagina would make you into a male. No, that just makes you a female with an artificial penis. I don't think I'm being a jerk, I think I'm just not sugarcoating the fact that this is a bit detached from reality, and that I don't support it.
No, you were definitely being a jerk. I wasn't just talking about you though.
Fair. This subject is touchy for me, because
1.) People can't really provide proper evidence to why I should support this other than freedom of choice and the "immutability of emotional reasoning" (who are you to tell them how they should feel about themselves argument)
2.) By supporting transgenders "being treated" as members of the other sex, I am basically supporting that all females must be treated differently from males, and that just because you display traditionally feminine behavior and adhere to female-assigned gender expectations, you get a free pass to be "female". As such, I woild support these expectations, the binary of enforced masculinity and femininity, and therefore indirectly supporting sexism. I choose not to do this, therefore I am against the claim that by taking physical alteration surgeries, you suddenly magically transform into something you biologically aren't.
You are right though, the initial upsetness made me not state my points clearly and properly
Your reasoning seems very clinical and cold-hearted to me. I feel like if you knew someone personally who went through the emotional pain of feeling like they should have been born as the opposite gender then your opinion may differ. Then again maybe it wouldn't. Either way, as of now our opinions are entirely different. For me, the things you stated in your first point are enough of a reason to support trans people. If someone is suffering and they can do something to fix it that doesn't hurt anyone else then I'm all for it. As far as your second point goes, do you not treat the sexes differently already? Most people do, myself included. If you feel that changing the pronoun you call a transgender person to him/he or her/she respectively is sexist, then do you currently use a gender neutral pronoun when referring to people? If so, good for you, you're more advanced than I. If not, then aren't you already sexist by your definition? Honestly, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree
If I was a guy I wouldn't date "her" , I don't care how much of a girl they looked like.. but that just me..
I think many girls seem to feel that as females have been oppressed for millennia, they need to support them in their choices, so that it won't be the same for them as it was for them. I am not sure where critical thinking flew out the window, though.
Opinion
24Opinion
I won't lie it would depend on how well done surgery was and how far she had taken everything - posture voice training etc. I'd be down for fooling around but unless she'd transformed completely I'd be dubious about dating - I don't date men just fool around as there are certain behaviours I prefer in women.
I know an FtM who hasn't fully tried to be Male and has kept many female traits, it gives it away despite the pre op change being enough to fool people. It's like seeing the wires in a magic show.
Wait for it... wait for the "but if he behaves according to the traditional gender expectations towards members of the female sex, then he should be treated as a female, and respected as one!"
Honestly I am somewhat lost at what treat someone as a female even means apart from the pronoun usage. I feel that this is implicit sexism. I thought we should treat everyone equally, why would you get special treatment? :D
I know right? I honestly don't get the people who claim that "the way you feel about yourself and the way you behave determines what sex you fit as in society". Like... this is literally as sexist as sexism can get.
I would respect and not judge a transgender woman , but i can't see myself dating one. Idk, it just doesn't seem something im interesting in doing. There are so many other women in the sea
nah, i just couldnt. sorry if that makes me intolerant asshole
Its because she used to be a he?
yeah. like the bone structure is a guys bone structure. The vagina is not real and breasts not real.
Her breast are real with the help of cross sex hormones and her bone structure honestly really doesn't differ from any other girl but I know what u mean some trans woman have a mans bone structure.
"with the help of cross sex hormones" and christ girl, a mans bone structure isn't that different from a females... are u dense?
Because obviously the only thing that makes the male differ from a female is whether they have an extra hole between their legs or not, and not the biological structural differences that stem from the genetic chromosomial differences, of course. Right.
Yes, so it has been claimed that there is a certain part of the brain that makes you identify with the gender you're in - possibly a self-regulation system for sex-specific hormone quantity (although I am unfortunately not a neuroscientist).
That does NOT mean that just because you have an error in your brain that makes you misidentify with your biological structure that was defined by your genetic structure, that the biological definition for biological sex would suddenly change into something else. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition. Fixing it by reshaping the body is technically mutilation.
I have all the love in the world for transgendered people, but I would personally not date one.
if she already healed and done with all her operations and she can feel it going in then yes I would
This is a question I could see stirring up a shit storm of argument.lol but ya hell no!!! I like genuine women, nothing else. Trannys are a no go for me, the thought of them sends me running like hell
nope , call me old fashioned or out of touch or whatever but I want a real women👰
some off them can be more beautiful then girls from birth
Thank you lol honestly responses like urs is what I wanted to see to show her and make her feel better but well people have their opinions not very nice ones but opinions none the less..
you are welcome
Lol that's so true. people comments the women in the west are looking more like men. Huge, big bulky limbs and a masculine voice.
I am not really a fan of traditional femininity anyways, personally...
Can we see a photo off her please.
No because I'm not gay
"In terms of gender"
The simplified version of this statement is the following:
"If you want a duck, then something that quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, feels that it is a duck, and had feathers attached to it with plastic surgery but is actually a dog, should suffice to you as a duck, because otherwise you're a disrespectful backwards-thinking asshole".
@Opinion Owner- He was being sarcastic. And no, but you are being fairly disrespectful if you deliberately misgender trans people.
@Mesonfielde- False analogy. This isn't about different species, it's about people whose brains and hormones are physically different, causing them to feel that their gender doesn't match their biological sex. You do know that the consensus of the psychological community is that transgender is a valid gender identity? I hardly think you've got any kind of credentials which would in any way validate your opinion when it directly counters the position of the APA and the AMA.
No sorry, but don't worry there are guys who would. Tons of them.
I'm open-minded but I don't see myself doing that.
Nah might as well get a natural girl.
Nope, i want 100% woman from the day she was born
Some will. There will be some that will.
I'm sorry. I'd want a real woman.
No, because he/she whatever isn't really a female
Makes sense.
I have to disagree though.. mentally she is but she was just born with the wrong body parts..
Hahahahahahahaha. No, "she" was born with the wrong BRAIN STRUCTURE. "Her" body is perfectly fine, properly defined by the XY chromosome pair as it is biologically intended.
I dont think I could.
Um...no...
Hell fuck no !!!
No. FUCK NO.
No now Reverse the question. Vice versa would you?
I would like to think so if he was all the way through with everything and had a fully functional penis and was manly enough yes I think I would..
"fully functional penis" and "FtM transition" is pretty much an oxymoron.
No way, now how.
*no
Only if she's on hormones too
No I wouldn't
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