Guys, how to keep you for relationships during talking & dating phase?

[Anonymous]

Sure it’s easy to start with attraction to talking or going on dates, but I’m curious how to keep you to go into a relationship

[BarryLiverstone]

Odd framing. Why do you say keep him?

[Asker]

It’s easy to start dating/talking phase, but what can a woman do to keep a man and lead to a relationship?

[BarryLiverstone]

So it’s not about keeping a man. That makes it sound like he will run away if you mess up or are not perfect. It’s more about learning about the other person and growing closer in trust and intimacy

[Asker]

It’s beautifully said… I guess in dating, we all fear not being the perfect person to the person we like and how to make it work, or sometimes people make mistake… and in this today’s time, people easily walk away identifying someone as a “red flag” even if it’s a small mistake… so I was intrigue.

Then, how to be closer in trust and build that with a man?

[BarryLiverstone]

That’s a much longer answer. But I’m wiling to share or help from a guys perspective. Go ahead and follow me and I can break it down

[Asker]

I’d feel more comfortable staying anonymous if that’s okay? Maybe this will be helpful info for other lady audience here who may be intrigued

[BarryLiverstone]

Ok, I’ll write what I can. Just preparing for much longer answers. So building a relationship with someone takes time and you kinda gotta go through stages. First can we agree that it starts with chemistry felt in mutual physical attraction?

[Asker]

Lol alrighty Professor Barry teaching dating 101 coursework, I’ll pop my notebook and ready for it. Yes, I agreed to mutual physical attraction.

[BarryLiverstone]

Very nice. Now settle down class. Cell phones turned off and no talking !

Like you said. There is an initial talking stage where we both look out for red flags and kinda wonder if this person is all that, why are they not married by now? So it’s a bit of flirting, a bit of vibing. But mostly in my opinion the talking phase should be qik as the intention is to meet and date.

What’s been your experience during this stage? And how do you communicate what you are looking for?

[Asker]

Lmao am I allow to speak now professor? 🙊

[BarryLiverstone]

Yes. If you raise your hand

[Asker]

LOL ahermmm 🙋🏼‍♀️

[BarryLiverstone]

Yes ms Smith. You wanted to share with the class? First put that gum away and then you can approach the board

[BarryLiverstone]

Tell us about your experience

[BarryLiverstone]

Well I was willing to have a conversation here in public but without feedback it’s for not. Feels disappointing tbh. Cheers

[Asker]

Miss Smith is here Professor. Please don’t kicked me out of class. Why did you felt disappointed?

[Asker]

Hmm what are some things you would consider as red flags? So, men usually wonder why women are single if they’re a catch?

I think I find it hard to find someone who stands out to me… I usually tell men I want someone to connect with, get to know each other for who we are and see if there’s a potential/compatibility, genuine, respectful, good communicator, patient, fun, makes me laugh, intentional, etc.

[BarryLiverstone]

I’m disappointed because I was waiting for your answers and it was nearly an hour. It’s 2:42 am and I need to be awake for work in the morning. I’ll reply tomorrow and give it another chance.

[Asker]

Aws, you were waiting for me? Sorry I was away from my mobile and won’t always be on g@g if I’m busy, but I enjoyed my professor giving me some class lectures and look forward to more educational tomorrow 👩🏼‍💻

[Asker]

I hope you get some good rest Professor Barry ☺️

[BarryLiverstone]

To me red flags are a bit subjective and often based on past experiences. But part of them could be more general such as : heavy drug usage, a criminal past, a pattern of cheating, poor hygiene (showing an inability to take care of herself). I’d say that guys are not as picky as girls tho so they are not actively looking for red flags early on.

Ya I’m sure it’s the same with girls, but if a guy meets you and you appear the compete package in looks and personality the thoughts are then why is she single? What’s she done to other guys or what’s something hidden then she will bring up later on. Assume most guys will keep talking and moving towards the date but it’s in the back of the mind.

And yes, the obvious is guys have raging hormones daily (actually more in the morning) so some sexual flirting may happen even before meeting or while talking if you have initially met irl. Sure some guys are desperate and only looking for casual, but even if we are intending a more long term relationship we want to know in the future that romance and sex are a part of the deal. Otherwise it’s just a friendship. So this is why some guys are better at escalating on this topic than others.

Anyway I’d say if you are clear on this stage the next one is a date. So far he is interested and curious, attracted and looking forward to seeing you and spending time together. Likely he wants to impress you a bit and use some of the knowledge gained on the date.

How have your initial dates gone and can you tell when he’s wanting more dates?

[Asker]

Professor Barry, professor 🙋🏼‍♀️ you forgot to share how do you normally communicate to women what are you looking for?

Thanks for giving me such perspective to have a better understanding. It’s abit if you think about it that sometime at the back of people mind is “why are they single though?” trying to focus on potential bad things when we could just be focusing on what’s present and what’s actually going well. I think people get so used to being hurt/fearful/flight mode and “something must be wrong with this person as to why they’re single” lol. When what if things simply didn’t work out and they just chose the wrong person.

Miss Smith’s experience consist of boy asking her out, boy and girl tends to be mutually attracted to each other, girl finds it hard to feel some chemistry or there’s chemistry but no compatibility… or compatibility without chemistry.. two needs to go hand and hand… last of all, not alignment in intentions or values. Or simply many men tend to just not look for a commitment.

I assumed they wanna go on more dates when they bring it up, talks about the future doing things together, continue in contact and follow through lol. Tell me about yours.

[BarryLiverstone]

Welcome back class and tgif! Let’s write first on the topic of communication and just scratch the surface as literally 100s of books have been written and it’s the cornerstone of all relationships (non romantic and romantic) in our life.

Communicating what I want and need are often two separate things in the beginning. Guys tend to be able to share their dreams for life based on what they have been taught up to that point and observed in others. These dreams I’m sure you have heard versions of and may include some of the following :

(by the way side note. Guys love lists, they are factual and organized. We list the top 10 quarterbacks of all time or top ten movies. Girls dig lists also but tend to communicate differently )

Anyway the dreams:

Get married
Have a successful career we enjoy (and make $)
Buy a house and property
Travel
Start a family (kids are great)
Church and community service and give back..
Have fun vacations and pursue hobbies

So those are some dreams and tend to be highlights of the trad lifestyle. As society shifts these can at least help you match with expectations and if you wanna be a hippie and live in a commune that might be a clue your dreams don’t align.

But guys also have needs. Needs tend to be more grounded and can be short term and longterm. Here are some needs you may have heard:

Be attracted to her (both visually and her personality)
Open communication.
Be accountable and responsible
Good sense of humor (but are there really people with a bad sense of humor deep down?)
A hard worker (aka not always lazy)
Balance of attention and space
Fun/sex/affirmation/forgiveness
Someone to pray with and to learn about God beside
Smart and flexible, able to care for others
…

The thing about the needs is they will change over time. So while it’s valuable to get the needs up front you should expect more needs to come as we age. A 21 year old guy needs a cool chick to be on his arm Friday night at karaoke. By 30 he needs a good mom

[BarryLiverstone]

To help raise his children and partner in the household

So we communicate those verbally and through text and via action.

Stepping back a step, I like to frame a romantic relationship using the spiral model. You start small and add to it with bigger and bigger goals and achievements. This builds trust but also requires lots of communication to ensure everyone is happy and on the same page. So an example we saw yesterday when Ms. Smith ask prof Barry to teach a lecture and then skipped class for an hour. After confronted and an expression of disappointment there has been a sliver of trust generated and then more can be added over time.

So a key take away from all those words on communication is often times guys are not great at sharing all they dream or need in the beginning and this may evolve over time. Combine trauma, innocence, and a guarded heart and you could have a guy sharing that he wants to find a perfect girl to fall in love and get married to.. then in action by date #1 he’s got his tongue shoved down her throat and his needs are much more clear in those moments.

Final point I’ll share for now on communication is that the frequency of communication isn’t a great way to judge interest or lack there of in a new relationship. I’ve seen cases where the girl likes a guy and wants to feel closer and have a consistent bond. That manifests in daily texts when they have been on one date and grows to good mornings and good nights and hours of texting and calls. Sure there is excitement in the beginning and that honeymoon feeling is fun if both people are not busy. But the hot/cold communicating I’ve seen as frustrating for girls and they may act a bit clingy or want the daily attention ; fearing if he hasn’t written in 3 days they are ghosted. I’ll put some blame on society because the easy button is 2 min with a gm text. But the point is communication should be able quality over quantity on the talking and dating stage. Once you are his girlfriend you

[BarryLiverstone]

Have earned the more frequent check ins. But until then if he sets up a date for Saturday night and you haven’t heard from him for a few days it’s likely that he’s focused on other things.

[BarryLiverstone]

So jumping back to our stages we move from the talking stage to the dating stage. As you mentioned you have had guys ask you out and you have struggled with either chemistry or compatibility. My immediate feedback is are you doing the self work to present him with a consistent person and someone he can match and be compatible with? Are you coming into the dates with a healthy daily routine and good support system and mental health; or are you inconsistent and relying a bit on him to save you or one date put together and the next an emotional basket case (I kid). If it’s all good on your end then you should expect he’s also coming with his best self. I suspect in some of your past experiences one or both of you struggled in this area.

Here is when I get a bit less safe and open myself up to public criticism but I’ve learned the guy leads in the dating stage; especially on the first date. Now some will argue he should lead all the way and others will say it’s 50/50 or even she should be wearing the pants. But I’m old school and believe he plans the date, he pays, and it’s his job to make you feel special. To me it’s an opportunity (think of that spiral model) to show he has listened, is open to sharing what he likes, and can compete the task of taking action in all the details so that you can see he’s capable of one day getting shit done when married. In other words if he’s not able to plan and pay for a date, will he ever be able to step up when the “surprise” third kid is on the way and he just got laid off due to budget cuts?

Circling all the way back to your question you can help “keep” him by letting go, stopping the shit tests, not coming to the date with baggage, and enjoying the present moment. Guys like to be hero’s, so the laughs and smiles and attention, a well dressed gal engaging and flirting with us.. what’s better. Some guys need help breaking the touch barrier so if he’s shy help him out. Some guys are naturally outgoing so if you think

[BarryLiverstone]

He’s flirting with the waitress remember he asked You out and not her. Be confident that he planned this and be thankful when he pays and does the little things. Take a selfie with him by the water and post on sm if so inclined or share some good stories as you find things in common so he has future date ideas. We enjoy seeing our investment in time rewarded by your enjoyment.

Play it by ear but make it easy on him if you want him to keep leading on future dates. Some guys are ok with you planning the next date or make it a date with others. Be sure to communicate your boundaries clearly so he knows how far he can go both physically and emotionally. The flirting and sexual tension seem to be universally liked.

[BarryLiverstone]

That’s it for today’s lesson. Did you learn anything or have questions before we discuss the next topic? Next stage is exclusive dating. Why does he want to make you his girlfriend and how to encourage him to not choose someone else

[Asker]

TGIF! Omgoodness, wow Professor Barry, I really enjoyed your lecture numero dos today :) I appreciate how articulate and thorough you are with the time you spent sharing your knowledge with me. I loved how you were able to separate the differences between wants and needs from a man's perspective, what you highlighted was quite lovely, and it was very well-informed indeed. I always thought when a man hears a list, they'd find it as a turned-off that a woman is being too picky?

Lol I kind of like this spiral model you speak of, does Professor Barry trust his student Miss Smith a little now then?

I want to have a better understanding of the frequency with communication, are you saying even when a man is playing hot and cold, it isn't necessarily a bad thing because he is pacing himself to determine if she is what he is looking for to be his potential girlfriend?

[Asker]

Those are really good critical and reflective thinking questions. I pondered on it a bit. I'd say younger me in my 20s may have struggled a bit of it in different areas and the men in their 20s as well. I think as of late, I'd go on dates presenting what you have recommended... (I am all of those things: dress nice, laugh/smile, be attentive, and stay engaged). But I think an issue I was experiencing was that I go on first dates to enjoy, get to know the person, and critically assess if he could be the "one" or not for me to want to continue lol. I think it is very common for women to go on first dates wondering if this could be the right person. Hence, my reasons why some first dates don't work with chemistry vs. compatibility. But this past week, I can't recall where I read or heard it, but I needed to change that thinking process into going on first dates to just be present and train my brain to rewire its thought process to simply enjoy being in the company of this person and let it develop on its own pace. I'm old school too lol. I find it very attractive when a man takes the lead on the first date and most of the time generally lol. It would still be nice if he is considerate of my thoughts and what I like as well.

what do you mean a girl needs to work on by "letting go" ? lol.

I'm excited for the next lecture with exclusivity :)

[Asker]

Don’t forget your student is waiting while you’re on lunch break, Professor Barry 🙊🙈

[BarryLiverstone]

Some of your questions:

I was sharing that with lists in general guys like to talk about them more than girls. But yes early on he doesn’t want to hear you list off things and be picky because he will compare things you say and see if he is a perfect match. That can feel frustrating if you list things that he doesn’t have because he feels like they may not be have to haves or may feel like people can change so he could grow into that requirement.

No him “playing hot and cold” many times isn’t intentional. It’s seems like guys are not as intentional as playing games (unless he’s young and immature) as that comes from a lack of security ; playing games is desperate. What I meant by hot and cold is that’s more of a perception than reality. He just may have a busy week and isn’t cold but not communicating. It’s why you don’t wanna rely on the frequency or daily communication to understand his interest levels. Now I’ll admit many guys are poor at sharing emotions and how they feel as the dating progresses so that’s a challenge.

What I meant by letting go is coming to a date free of baggage or free of what your girlfriends have criticized and just be present in the moment. Let go of negative self talk and react to what is in front of you. Let go of the days frustrations with work or drama and allow your mind to feel the joy of being on a date and relax.

[BarryLiverstone]

Just wrote an entire section on exclusive relationships and gag didn’t upload as it was too long. Frustrating!

He’ll ask you to be his girlfriend once he’s ready for a commitment. It’s got positives and negatives. How many guys have you been exclusive with? This is the stage the real work begins in a relationship

[Asker]

Hi Professor Barry, apologize for being a bit late to class today. Let me put on my glasses, get my paper, and pencil ready :D How are you today?

[Asker]

Interesting, when do you think is an appropriate time to share the list of qualities a woman is looking for in a man? Funny thing is a woman probably feels the same way when a guy also share a list to her.

Thanks for sharing the general qualities that most men looks for, but what about yourself?

I know you speak of frequency and "hot and cold" does not determine a man's interest... then, how do I really determine a man's interest? It honestly makes me a bit lost and in questioning now lol.

Awwww I'm sorry GaG was being a bit unfair, but I really appreciate you for making time and putting much thoughts/efforts into your writing even though I wasn't able to read it :) hehe. I've only been exclusive to guys I have been with in a romantic relationship lol.

[BarryLiverstone]

It’s ok to share general qualities early on. Just know any list must have some flexibility as no one is that cookie cutter. So my list is similar to the one shared, but will become more detailed as I gain trust and connection to her.

So if all the guys you have dated you have been their exclusive girlfriend, why ask this question? You have been getting through the stages and “keep” a man to be yours. The next stages would be living together and moving towards an engagement

[BarryLiverstone]

Determining his interest is done over time and the more you learn about his habits the better you can judge. Any guy can talk a good game and shower you with compliments and make you think he’s into you; but when he’s deciding to invest in a weekend trip with you instead of spending that money on one of his hobbies it’s a good clue where you rank in his priorities

[Asker]

Professor Barry, you forgot to tell me how you are doing though :o

That's interesting, for some reason, I've always thought it was more likely women who wants to gain that trust to open up more on similarity... I am curious what are those other things you looked for.

Lol quite frankly, the question you asked why am I asking is exactly answered by your second comment with gauging a man's interest. I think it is a bit hard at times... since guys like to keep women on a hook lol. Well, I've been single for over a year and slowly back in the dating scene. I also haven't had the best healthy relationships and I want to be more careful on who I decide to invest in and more relationshipy men on what they look for. How many girls have you been exclusive with? Hmm, then, how do a woman "keep" a man to be hers in this dating time? :)

[BarryLiverstone]

I’m tired, have been up for a few hours working and only got 3 hrs sleep after the superbowl. I’ve had 3 relationships so far. Ya if you had unhealthy relationships you have learned from them and I can see why you want this time to be better. So back to a list of advice:

1. Steve Harvey’s 90 day rule on sex - be sure to not give up your cookie for at least 90 days into the relationship. If a guy is genuine about wanting to invest in a longterm relationship then he will wait 3 months. That’s oral sex as well. You are both adults and both get horny, just masturbate and wait as after 3 months you have a much more solid connection emotionally.

2. Focus on maybe 7 core values that you feel are deal breakers and will be important to you. I know it’s that list we have circled around a few times but for example I’m Christian so if I met someone who is an atheist or hates Christians it’s a deal breaker as they can’t interact with my family. It’s ok if they are spiritual or open to it but once I learn that I wouldn’t proceed with the relationship.

3. If it’s too good to be true, it probably is. Sure people put their best foot forward in the first month of dating and talking. But if you see zero flaws or think he’s the perfect match.. he’s hiding things. I get this advice from seeing how my bestie has dates and how she tells me about guys.. first two weeks she’s gaga and this guys is da bomb, only to ruin her a month later and then she recovers and can’t believe why she messed up trusting that lying bastard.

4. Love yourself and have firm boundaries. As you said you are coming off bad experiences in relationships. Be sure you don’t repeat that and communication in a direct way what he can and cannot do. Sure it’s more risky but in general women are more agreeable than men and every time you compromise and let him slide on your boundaries it gets worse.

Ok there are so topics based on what you said.

[BarryLiverstone]

Not sure you can judge a guy is “relatuinshippy “ up front. The closest I can guess is to observe his relationships with friends and family. The same skills needed to maintain and build trust and relationships in a romantic sense he will have in other areas of his life.

So to simplify how does he treat his mom, his best friend, and his manager? Find that out early on and you have better clues how he will treat his lover and wife eventually

[BarryLiverstone]

So if you would like Ms Smith, you teach the next lecture from the women’s perspective. Just as I have highlighted how guys feel, you demo how girls feel in these stages and how a guy can “keep” and quality woman.

[Asker]

Oh no, why only 3 hours of sleep? I totally missed on the superbowl haha. Student Miss Smith is taking notes.. mhmm mhmm mhmm got it, so just follow these four big steps in order to identify a great guy and keep a guy for a relationship?

What's your take if they're sexting/on a few bases during the getting to know and dating stages within those 90 days period? haha

Usually I agree with that theory of looking at a man by how he treat his mom and others. But I also learned just because a man can treat his friends good.. doesn't necessarily mean he will be good to a woman. I've been there, done that. I guess I am like your bestie who has experience those poor runs with wrong men.

[Asker]

Ohhh, my first homework assignment by Professor Barry, I will definitely take it on and present it in our next class meeting :D hehe.

[Asker]

Hi Professor Barry, I have a question, I know you speak of hot and cold patterns on communication as unintentional from men who may just not be communicating. Then, how do you gauge his interest level by those hot and cold level?

[Asker]

*cough to clear throat
it is presentation day, what keeps a woman going in dating?

First thing first, does she know what she want/need or exploring to figure out what does she want and need?

objectively speaking most women look for someone who gives masculine energy in the way he presents himself with the way he speak, act, how he treats her, and where he is in his life to be someone she can depend on.

[BarryLiverstone]

Interest levels will be like waves. What I meant by communication frequency is you can’t say a man is interested because he’s sending daily texts. He can be interested and not send daily. He can not be interested and still go through the motions.

I say it’s in waves because as I went through the stages in the beginning there is novelty and he may be interested based on the initial attraction. You can tell he’s interested then because he’s talking to you and giving attention. From there you can tell he’s interested if he’s getting to know you and taking actions to meet with you again on a date or to hang out. If he’s not interested often he’s not making those plans and can be stuck in the talking phase. So that’s the first wave.

Then you have a date and you ladies are great at picking up on details irl, watching his body language and feeling his energy. After the date again if he stops communicating for a few days it’s not an indication he lost interest as he may be focused on other things and thus far you haven’t earned a higher priority in his life than those things. Sure he’s likely to communicate if he’s into you but I see girls get clingy or needy at this point if they feel like he’s pulling away already.

As you said you see his masculine energy so observe if he’s taking actions that match his words. Is he wanting another date, is he at work all week, did you see him at an event he talked about. A guy will be cold if he’s ignoring you completely and isn’t making more plans to see you but he’s not cold if his frequency isn’t matching the quantity before that date.

More waves will come as you date because there will be times when he finds more connections, when he’s advancing physically, and when he’s seeing you react in a positive way. Then waves can pull back as conflict occurs or he’s distracted with life or when he’s feeling upset by something (as we said before generally guys isolate when upset)

[BarryLiverstone]

So she keeps going because she feels him making an effort and she judges that effort as genuine based on his character? As opposed to a player who she feels is trying to manipulate.

[BarryLiverstone]

And how does she feel when he allows her to give him masculine energy? Asking because of the ying and yang in developing relationships. He can’t always be the one planning dates and paying for them and giving effort and taking the lead. She also wants to step up and do these things to show she appreciates him and wants to lead

[Anonymous]

Be worthy of it.

[Asker]

What does that look like for you

[Opinion Owner]

She has to show me I'm her choice. Not ONE of her options. Relationships are work even if you're with the right person. If she's unwilling to do that work now it won't get better down the road.

[Asker]

I didn’t know men expected that during talking/dating stage… since everyone usually is talking to others and to do “work” since I thought that’s more in the relationship stage