If you don't pronounce the t in "listen" "whistle" or "mistletoe", why do you pronounce it in "often" when it's supposed to be silent?

[FunkyMonkee]

[Rosexøxø]

Lol it’s fairly easy…

Anytime the ‘t’ is after the ‘s,’ it is silent because together, they make the “ss” sound. No one would say ( Whis- tull )

or (mis- tull- toe) it’s very choppy.

‘Q’ and ‘U’ paired together, are “quah,” or so,

and ‘wh’ together, are a “whuh” sound,

and ‘Ph’ is also the same sound as a singular, letter ‘f,’ and it’s “ffff” sound.

Why are silent letters ever included. I don't know,

probably also for *visual appeal* or not to confuse with other words spelled similar, but entirely different meanings.

If it were spelled as ‘whisle’ or ‘misletoe’

the ‘sle’ in the first word hurts my eyes and idk- I suppose the second looks alright.. which is a surprise, but it could certainly push for “uncomfortable-looking.”

Usually, they (these odd/complex words) don’t have visual flow (in my opinion, and to my observance) when they would miss or leave out their silent counterpart, variables.

[Rosexøxø]

To give example on trying to not to make identical, yet entirely different MEANING words, I’ll mention:

Spare/ and Spar.

Spare has a silent e to differentiate from the word spar, and it means different as well.

Spare has many terminologies like extra of a substance (plenty), or to show mercy and restrain from harming or killing someone, and can mean a type of goal in bowling 🎳. The environment and surrounding context/speech of the word will help others understand what that person meant, when they verbalize the word: Spare.

Spar is different. It also has different terminologies or better yet reference points.

It can be a word to describe some part of a ship I believe or a place on a map (coordinates?), and usually a slang for a form of boxing or argument.

Obviously the same is true for spar- it depends on context, to know what a person is referring to.

Now imagine if spar and spare were both spelled as Spar + Spar

Or Spare + Spare

It would be all of these terms into one

And would confuse the heck out of people.

English IS confusing, but it’s only doing its best to have categories for every single topic and/or item.

There’s only so many words that could have been used, and now it makes sense and probably is some blessing and a curse, that NEW words are added to the dictionary as a constant.

It means more one would have to familiarize themselves with/ take time to learn if it’s foreign to them and newly heard/ but also it means more understanding to the various things that surround us in this world- it makes room for open mindedness and individuality, instead of calling a wolf and a dog both dogs, when only one can be kept as a pet with less brain power and firmness, than the other 🤷‍♀️

[Rosexøxø]

It’s a bit much… but we’ll be okay 🙌😭🤣

[FunkyMonkee]

You mean, like, list, wistful, vista, pugilist, guitarist?
What I don''t get is why there''s a silent h in so many worlds beginning with w but, when that happens, they pronounce the silent h first! except in "who" or "whore" where the w is silent! But, if you can say, "water" without the h sound, why can't you say "what" without it?
Whisle looks perfectly fine, to me! For that mater, it should be "wisle".

[Rosexøxø]

Okay I need to fine tune my response. I was also tryi mg to think of other st words to make sure,

But I couldn’t and you helped me.

So st in the MIDDLE of a word and paired together, the t will be silent, but at the beginning of the word or end it will not be silent. Also it has to be English if I assume correctly because vista is Latin and not English. They have different pronunciations altogether… MOST OF THE TIME lol

I’m not certified as an English teacher it I DO KNOW there is sound reasoning behind it

All via the letters they are paired with or next to, for visual AND verbal flow and to eliminate the chances of duplicate spelled words with ENTIRELY different meanings

[Rosexøxø]

I don't know about who lol I think it’s so it doesn’t sound like WOO lol

And so that whore doesn’t sound and get mistaken for Wore.

There’s specifics to it lol 😭🤣😂🙌

[Rosexøxø]

It’s all very complex but it’s sound in the logic I assure you. Just as you see by your queries and my small error in direct interpretations/explanations, not many of us KNOW these fine details, but they are fine and do run deep with history

[Rosexøxø]

English is a newer language while many are ancient

And so you’ll find if you try to say certain words in German or Latin, Tamil (Indian ) and even ANCIENT Egyptian

You will not find it…

Because they don’t have newer world items and concepts

They don’t always speak of theories and complex things

They speak in symbols and proverbs with simple things like rain drops and mountains lol

There is no picture for “A. I.” In Chinese or hieroglyphics…

Only traditional and LIMITED things.

Don’t get me wrong they are beautiful languages and still nevertheless difficult to master, but not nearly as complex as I would believe English to be.

English is as far as I know the only language to be constantly adding to its dictionaries/ word banks…

ALL THE WHILE many of its formats are derivatives from other foreign cultures like!

Latin… Greek… British English, and so on

[FunkyMonkee]

Spare could be spayr.
I don't know what yo mean by Spar + Spar. I've also never hear Spar used for anything but fighting or arguing.

[Rosexøxø]

I apologize. The basic thing is. There is a reason why they are spelled the way they are spelled.

Everything is also somewhat like a pattern in English or they follow rules.

I suppose they could spell it as spayr but that also doesn’t visually look like traditional English but more so Russian/Slavic/Greek spelling.

I suppose 🤷‍♀️

Spayr and spare instead of spare and spar

But maybe as English was being established no one thought of the spayr version.

[FunkyMonkee]

You mean, words like mystical, Listerine, mister, mistress, Christian, dystopia?

[FunkyMonkee]

What about hoo or hou?
What about hore?

[Rosexøxø]

No any word ending in “yr” specifically.

Most of English words that end in r have a vowel specifically placed beside it I believe.

Not a consonant especially ‘y.’

That yr ending is mostly found in Slavic languages and Greek I believe.

Like zephyr is not English but old English which was derived from the Greek god Zephyros or Zephyrus

Then it was shortened in old English to just Zephyr.

If you asked anybody to name you a word ending in ‘Yr’ I do believe they’d have great difficulty.

[Rosexøxø]

It’s just not common and that is why I said I SUPPOSE spayr spelling could work, but I doubt it as it didn’t become a popular trend in English words.

Instead

The are or air ear is more common

Yeah actually any word with a vowel beside the r TOWARDS the end of the sentence.

Rules and exceptions my good man.

I assure you…

I don’t know ALL of them from A-Z

If you’ll excuse my pun 😂

[Rosexøxø]

Hoo is already a sound effect so it cannot be a description of a noun as in who for a person.

Hou seems more trendy for a different language like Chinese or other. It’s not common in English but I’m sure you can find some exceptions.

As for hore- you are RIGHT!

it was once spelled that way too especially it is common to see ho in other languages like German instead of the who beginning to the word.

Hore is INDEED also already a word for mud.

I suppose that’s why multiple names can be used for mud including “mud” lol

But this may be logic as to why hore was eventually later spelled as WHore.

I am not willing to search up the exact history and trail the words whore and hore and their origins and adaptations.

I WOULD be here forever lol 😭😂

There’s reasons is all I know beyond any doubt, and I do appreciate the mindfulness and intention put forth into the English vocabulary system.

Do I use all of its words?

I do not. I am nevertheless a fan.

[FunkyMonkee]

Hoo says? Whoopee is a sound effect and still a word, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANRPmTZRqkg
So, a female mud wrestler could be a hore whore?

[Rosexøxø]

If it was a sexual fight I suppose yes lol

Also I think it’s just a sound effect cannot also be an interrogative word: who/ what/ when/ where/ why/ how.

Sound effects and words can be for other things but not these

Crucial words described/labeled as interrogation words or incidental words or interrogative pronouns?

Anyways to add

When cannot be a sound effect lol

If this makes any sense 🤔🤨🧐😂😭

[katiesmuff]

Because they didn't pay attention during English class from 3rd grade to 6th grade.

[FunkyMonkee]

Most likely!

[Rosexøxø]

🤣😭😭🙌🙌✨

[Paul09]

Yeah English writing is extremely bizzare. Like why not write it how it's pronounced? Then there is England who add letters that aren't even there lol.

[FunkyMonkee]

That's what I've always thought.

[Guy13]

Because they are from a foreign country and English is second language...

[FunkyMonkee]

Not the people I'm talking about.

[Rosexøxø]

🙌😂😭

[NathanDavis]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z6oeAdemFZw

yes...

[Rosexøxø]

It’s a great movie lol. Steve Martin should have done more movies :[ he’s a good actor

[SaoirseS]

I don’t. Nobody I know does.

[FunkyMonkee]

I never heard anyone do it until about 3 or 5 years ago! But, it wasn't until then that I also started hearing people start EVERY sentence with the word, "So". either! Or people saying dumb things like, "I'm wanting to.", instead of, "I want to.".

[SaoirseS]

Every day I hear or read things that make me cringe. Inflating the language with unnecessary words is one of them.

[FunkyMonkee]

Me, too!! That and saying stuff the wrong way. I've been hearing lots of words, mostly "bigger" words, pronounced the wrong way the past few years!! I'm starting to feel like I've been kidnapped in my sleep and deposited on this planet that LOOKS like Earth!!

[Sixgunsound]

Since graduating on the Dean's list in English literature, I regularly cringe inside when listening to people speak.

[SaoirseS]

@Sixgunsound. I can imagine!

[FunkyMonkee]

@Sixgunsound I can completely understand that!! People today don't seem to know ANYTHING about English!! Of, instead of have! Stating someone's name and then saying, he/she: "Becky, she went to the store...". You've already told us who you're talking about, you don't need to follow it with, "she"! Shaun Hannity does that CONSTANTLY, it's the biggest reason I can't stand watching him!! And Laura Ingraham does it sometimes, too!
Instead of writing, "once in a while", they write, "wants and awhile".
"A women asked me...". Really? A women? You don't mean 2 other woman?
I guess it's just MUCH MORE important to teach kids about drag queens and sexual diversity than what they're REALLY in school to learn!! But, I HAVE seen/heard quite a few grown adults even my age and older make some of the same stupid mistakes!
I don't really have any kind of a beef with drag queens. Go right ahead and dress the way you want! I support that but, that shit does NOT belong in a school room!! You wanna do it in college, go right ahead!! Those students aren't impressionable, anymore.

[Anonymous]

"st" vs "ft"

[FunkyMonkee]

Doesn't matter, it's supposed to be silent.

[Opinion Owner]

According to who?

[FunkyMonkee]

My 3rd grade English teacher, Mr. Wittmus, and everyone else since then until about 3 or 4 years ago.

[Opinion Owner]

Well, according to Miriam Webster, the word comes from the root word "oft" and was pronounced with the t for hundreds of years before the t was dropped. The t started being used again in 1934 and I can attest that it's been pronounced by everyone I've ever known for the last 30 years. Miriam Webster considers both pronunciations valid. So maybe it's a regional thing.