I see plenty of actors or other celebrities appearing on screen with long armpit hair. As far as I know hair there is normal on anyone. Honestly if it is long it looks gross, man or woman.
I personally don't care much, I am not a body hair nazi, but I think everyone should keep their hair minimal on that part.
The picture of Henry Cavill (second guy) is what I would consider ok, more than that just looks gross to me. If a woman had that much armpit hair people would look at her like she commited a crime and would insult her.
Updates
+1 y
So many men here are hypocrites. You want women to shave everywhere but you find excuses for yourself? Why? Because you have been brainwashed from an early age to believe it is gross only on women? It wasn't a trend for women to remove body hair for most of human history, so yes, it is just your cultural background here.
Why is society more accepting of men's armpit hair?
Well, I cannot speak for society in general, but I know my girlfriend - and frankly I - does not understand this mania for guys shaving their body hair. As she put it, she wants a man who looks like a man and not like a boy who has yet to go through puberty.
By the by, funny thing, there is some research to suggest that a man's body hair is, in evolutionary terms, designed to indicate to the female that the male is sexually mature and can make babies.
It also retains pheromones that help make a man more sexually attractive to a woman. So when a guy shaves his body hair, he is basically sending his sex appeal off into space. Well, at least a little.
Science is not full clear on why the body hair of women does not have quite the same effect. They theorize that it is in the evolutionary nature of the difference between men and women.
In evolutionary terms, the female was looking for one male with healthy sperm who could sire healthy babies. Then after that, because feeding and nurturing a baby requires so much energy, the woman needed the male who could find food and ward off rival males and predators.
By contrast, the male was looking for as many females as possible to mate with. For him, the evolutionary imperative was to spread his sperm to and for that he needed females who would submit to him, sexually speaking.
So while male body hair indicates, in evolutionary terms, sexual maturity, and an alpha male with healthy sperm, in females its absence suggested submissiveness. Indeed, the retention of hair in females indicating a residual of our primate ancestors - although some argue that hair on the vagina suggests, at an evolutionary level, sexual maturity and the ability to have babies. (Making babies being the source of sex drive in both females and males - it being how the species has survived for several hundred thousand years.)
So in men, armpit hair is just part of a larger pattern. It is, in evolutionary terms, a sexual indicator. Whereas in females it is less essential and is more a residual of our primate ancestors. Perhaps disappearing in females all together in several hundred thousand years.
Hair is one of nature's ways of providing dry lubrication between body parts, like in the arm pits and pubic hair. For women it also acts as a filter to keep bad things out of the vagina, much like nose and ear hair catch and keep stuff out of your lungs and ears. I also suspect that it was God's way of helping Adam and Eve be clothed so they would not be ashamed at being naked. And from then on it became standard equipment.
@Daniela1982 Can't speak to the last. No disagreement with the former. There is nothing in that formulation that conflicts with the research that I mentioned.
@emmily2396 Saw your update. Well, it is good that you don't have a chip on your shoulder over this crucial matter upon which the laws of men and nations turn.
First, if you don't want to shave, don't. However, just understand that as you are free to do what you want, so others are free to make their own aesthetic judgments about it. Fair is fair after all.
Second, part of the reason why shaving was less common in the past was that means were less available. That said, I have relatives from Eastern Europe and they tell me that in certain parts of Europe there is more tolerance for unshaved women as a style.
So cheer up!! The world is not so cruel as you seem to think.
Good question - I am a bit fascinated by the whole body hair thing - What are the dynamics that women seem more feminine with smooth legs and pits - Is female pubic hair in vogue or not - Do men go smooth or trim their body hair - What is interesting is that it seems to be a whole dynamic - Say men in the 1970s and 1980s, moustaches and hairy chests were in but now in 2020 it seems to be beards and mimimalist body hair if not smooth - There appears to be no logic. On the premise of your question, yes if possible keep any armpit hair in check if you are a man maybe I am conditioned by society in that I find female armpit hair strange though in France and other parts of Europe it can be worn. I am not sure again it could be bias but if I saw a pretty girl in a photo with maintained armpit hair (enough to be hair not stubble) I wouldn't be repulsed - Excuse the pun but I have no logic for my logic.
Henry Cavill is SUPER hairy. If he didn't have underarm hair or had less chest hair, it' s because someone pruned it off him. There are religious and cultural groups who remove body hair: Islam is one and therefore lots of middle eastern peoples remove body hair. I think there is the Biblical reference to Samson getting his strength from his hair (head hair, that is) and there might be something about body hair on men being related to testosterone levels. I think it's true. A very sexy man I knew was very body hair covered. He smelled like cypress wood shavings! Delicious. I wouldn't prefer a man look like a monkey: no skin visible. But hairy is sexy to me. Clean and hairy. Cypress would shavings odor!!! ooooohhhhh...
Because men suit armpit hair, they can actually pull it off. Especially if he's a bit muscular, men can actually look great with it (In my opinion). Think Henry Cavill in man of steel, if he came out of the ocean with shaven armpit hair I would think that's seriously out of character. Of course I don't mind if a guy does or doesn't, it's his choice. Women on the other hand, yell at me all you like... we don't suit armpit hair. Yes, grow it out if you like, it's your body, but I like my nice, soft, underarms thank you very much.
I believe it is because of biology. Being hairy has been more towards masculinity and having smooth clear skin has been more towards femininity. A man with a more rugged, durable-looking, and somewhat hair body and face is very attractive to most women, whereas a woman with delicate, hairless, and smooth-looking body is seen as very attractive to most men. It’s the same reason why men have shorter hair and women have longer hair, because hair lengths have been associated with masculinity and femininity probably due to biological reasoning as well. There are other examples as well, like having big hands as a man being more pleasant, attractive, and acceptable as opposed to having big hands as a woman. I’m sure you can understand where I’m getting at.
That doesn't answer the question, it just desrcibes it more. You don't explain why socidty view it that way. And honestly there should be no difference in my opinion. You either askneveryone shave or don't
Emm, you have to get to know people I guess to get their comments sometimes. I have noticed a lot of people do not get some types of friendly jesting in here as I like joking around too and have been taken wrong many a time. I know Embrace the pain and will say that was just kidding. He is not the way that sounded, and is most often quite thoughtful. I believe he is sorry so please let that comment slide. But now you know his humor, good or bad.
it doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't have to. Every society and culture is different. People like to follow the traditions they they learned from their elders. And so peculiar behaviors and attitudes are passed on from generation to generation to generation. There are cultures in Africa that like to stretch their earlobes and lower lips around large wooden discs. If you're wondering why the hell they do that, well it's because their parents and elders did it. And so it's important to them and their culture. It doesn't have to make any sense. They might wonder why other societies don't stretch their earlobes and lips around large wooden discs. Welcome to the random weirdness that is the human species.
Why is building muscle more socially acceptable for men. I agree 100% and I’m a masculinist. I think that whatever a woman has to do to look good, a man should have to do and vice versa! I’d have no problem shaving or he’ll even putting make up on if that’s what a woman thought was attractive. Society is full of dumb ideas of what beauty is and it comes down to personal preference. I know I’m by no means the conventional ideal when it comes to how a man should look. I’m not delusional, I know if everyone held conventional beliefs in what they found attractive, I’d have no chance.
Women's body hair was targeted in sexist campaign ads in the 40s. Hair is considered "manly" and, I don't know if you have seen but, men are shamed if they don't have any.
I personally think armpit hair on anyone is unappealing but if a wo/man wants to rock it, I support them.
Were campaign ads intentionally targeting women and telling them that body hair was "unhygienic and unfeminine" in Ancient Egypt, or that they're men would not be attracted to them with it?
I don't know, but paintings and carvings show women removing body hair and women are depicted has hairless below the neck, so even then, women were doing it to be seen as more attractive. The point is: this is nothing new and has been happening at least 6,000 years.
Body hair is caused by an increase in testosterone. To the eye, a woman with no body hair *appears* to have lower testosterone than one with body hair and is perceived as more feminine and thus more appealing as a woman. The converse is true for men. A man with body hair is perceived as masculine, and is more appealing to women.
In response to your update: men and women are different. Different standards apply to men and women. It's not hypocritical to hold different people to different standards to accommodate their differences.
A woman needs testosterone to get aroused too. So if she only had the hormones of a child, which means she wouldn't have enough to grow armpit and pubic hair she wouldn't have a sexual drive
True, and a woman with zero testosterone will have a mess of health problems as well. I'm not saying guys want children or sick women, I'm saying men are attracted to feminine women. A woman with body hair is perceived by men as "too masculine" most of the time. I also want to reiterate that this applies mainly to first impressions and doesn't have much to do with anything beyond surface level attraction.
It's an interesting idea to me... There are two things that come to mind. One, if we have it there is a reason that we do. And we have it early so it's not a product of old age. So the question is why? Why, is it there in the first place? Two, part of me wonders if there are girls that like chest hair, if there is, I'd wonder about their feelings about armpit hair. But it's an interesting point. I wouldn't even mind shaving them either
I personally don't like too long body hair either, I prefer it to be neatly trimmed. But why do you think everyone should do that? Are you saying everyone should feel the same about it as me and you? Or am I misunderstanding the way you phrased that?
Don't I have the right to have a preference or what? It is not like I go and insult people if they don't match my preference, but I do have the right fo think it ois gross.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm actually saying the opposite - that everyone should have the right to their own preference. What I was asking was why you think everyone should keep their body hair according to *your* preference rather than to their own? And if you're not saying that then I apologize, but in your question as well as in your response to me, you definitely made it sound like that. Which is why I was asking. Just trying to understand.
@DylanXBailly Some people think they should go natural. As long as you're clean, hair or not is not an issue. Though today people claim that hair is "dirty," a completely new and untrue idea.
I see no difference in what I said and what you said, you just tried to make it sound negative. I also expect everyone to take regular showers. Does that mean that I start insulting people if 1 day they smell a bit bad? No, but I would certainly avoid someone that constantly smell, it is my right to do so.
@DylanXBailly Not accusing you. Just stating the general gist of what people say on here. It used to mean sexiness on men and women. Now it seems to mean the opposite.
So, if one of your close friends had longer body hair than you prefer, you'd avoid him? I mean, the thing with not showering is that it does affect that people around you (by smell). Not sure how having longer body hair instead of trimmed or shaved affects people around them. But I'm open to learn more about your perspective!
And no, I'm not trying to make it sound negative. There's no reason to be defensive, really. Aagain, I'm just trying to understand your perspective. Isn't the point of GaG to discuss your views with each other? lol
Culture. Some are different to others. My ex wife is Muslim and she expected me to shave my underarm hair and pubic hair like she does. For cleanliness. Even though its 5 years since our divorce I still do it. Smells much less in the heat of summer.
Men and women are held to different social standards. It's just like how society is more accepting of women wearing makeup. Women wear makeup and it's normal but when men do it people look at him like he's a ped0 and would insult him. It's just the way things are.
I've been told I look like a ped0 for growing out my mustache many times over the years, from when I was a freshman in high school to a couple weeks ago. Men can also have their hair affect their reputation pretty severely.
I think this is an American thing (and then followed by others) - it isn't universal though. Frenchies don't bother with it (and I am in favour of neither side bothering with their armpits). Once you treat it like the normal thing it becomes just that.
Feminists are so contradictory on the issue of bodily attractiveness, on the one hand they blame patriarchy for forcing women to look pretty, on the other hand if we agree with them than they criticize us for thinking that women groom themselves in order to please men.
Pretty is subjective. And it forces women to abide by a certain ideal instead of being whoever they want. It's toxic just like it is to tell men that they need to have beautiful muscular bodies, have a certain penis size, and be of a particular height to be desired by women.
@Anoniemus Do you confirm to a certain type of look because you want to be attractive to men or because you want to for yourself, that is the question. If the latter is the case than you need to stop blaming patriarchy for the fact that women feel compelled to work so hard to stay fit, do their hair in a certain way, and wear makeup etc. I previously asked a question about whether women shaved their legs to be more attractive to men or for their own self-esteem, nearly every woman who responded said it was for her own self-esteem.
Plenty of women do it for men or because society tells them that they will not be considered attractive if they do not follow.
Those responses are from a small sample, not nearly large enough to be extrapolated onto any population. GaG is full of women that do not conform to society's standards, so I wouldn't expect anything different.
@Anoniemus "Pretty is subjective" Well... no, not really. The overwhelming majority of humanity agrees on most of the details that make someone pretty or not pretty-- therefore it's not really subjective. Yes, it technically is, but since most people agree on that subjectivity, it becomes objective. Sociological and psychological studies on the nature of human attraction have confirmed this. "It's toxic" is illogical-- it doesn't matter whether it's toxic or not. Life is harsh sometimes. Humans are animals. It simply is what it is.
@Thatsamazing If the majority agrees, that does not mean ALL agree. Some disagree making it a matter of perception and subjective. What the studies show is actually how symmetrical faces and round faces/smaller eyes on women are seen as more attractive than vice versa. That does not cement that attraction is the same for everyone otherwise EVERYONE would like the same people.
"That's just how it is" isn't an argument for how society has been constructed to target people through various platforms such as the media and create insecurities or expand on existing ones in order to align with sexist ideals. It does matter since we have higher thought processes and can put an end to it.
@Anoniemus "What the studies show is actually how symmetrical faces and round faces/smaller eyes on women are seen as more attractive than vice versa" Yes. Correct. Thank you for agreeing with me, without meaning to.
"how society has been constructed" No one constructs "society." YOU are society. I am society. We all assembled here are society. If society thinks or does a thing, it is because millions of individual citizens want or think or do that thing. It is not blamable on some other entity somewhere else.
@Anoniemus "It does matter since we have higher thought processes and can put an end to it." Oh sis... go ahead and don't eat or bathe for a week and come back and tell me how "higher" you feel. Humans are animals. There's no changing that. We only feel like we don't because we live in a world of convenience and invention. Strip that away, and we'll mostly return to barbarism.
Did you not read the rest of what I wrote? You're acting as if you're right without reading the rest. Again, those studies do not say that everyone sees it that way. It is just what has been reported the most. It clearly isn't objective if everyone does not agree.
The society we live in was constructed by the people who came before us: otherwise we wouldn't be living here. The rules, traditions, customs, social norms etc. pre-existed us and some have been recently created by us. The point is since we are part of society (which I didn't feel the need to explain which is why I was inclusive by saying "society was constructed"), if there is a negative aspect that affects a group, it should be fixed. Otherwise, it will continue to poison us.
And the rest of your post is irrational with having nothing to do with what I've written. Just because we are part of the animal kingdom, that means the negative aspects of society should be suffered? If that occurred, the Civil Rights Movement wouldn't have existed or Feminists wouldn't have fought for women's rights. Anyway, you're not saying anything new and I don't want to keep blowing up his answer (since that gets annoying). Have the last say.
@Anoniemus Yes, I read the rest of what you wrote-- and it was irrelevant. I focused on the part that was relevant, which was the part overruling everything else you said. You're telling yourself that beauty is subjective, when technically, yes, it is, but REALISTICALLY, no, it is not subjective, and you, and I, and everyone around you and I and everyone everywhere knows it. That is the point. This has nothing to do with Civil Rights or feminism or anything like that. We're talking about physical beauty here, not voting. I have no idea why you're bringing any of that up. Yes, you're an animal, and we as animals find certain features attractive on the opposite sex and certain features unattractive. Moaning about it *will not change it,* nor should it, and you're claiming that these things are toxic when they aren't. You think they're toxic, for some reason-- most people don't. You yourself already admitted this. "But muh Civil Rights" uhhh what?
Hirsuteness is a Male secondary sexual characteristic. Hairy chests are seen as masculine, etc. Armpit hair is relatively unimportant. Modern western culture confuses feminine and infant traits, so promotes hairlessness in women. It provides a way of selling hair removal creams, wax, etc.
because body hair grows as a result of high levels of testosterone and testosterone is supposed to be more prevalent in men, therefore body hair is more acceptable on men.
Women have less testosterone, yes, but they do have low levels and ALL women still do have some body hair, just in far smaller amounts than men. All women develop body hair during puberty, it's just that most of us shave/wax nowadays. It doesn't mean we don't have it naturally!
Men also have low levels of female hormones. This isn't a disorder, this is just normal and healthy for all humans, we all have varying levels of the different sex hormones.
@Thatsamazing This answer implies that women having any body hair - even the small amounts that women naturally have - is not 'acceptable', and that should not be the case. Society has a problem if we're teaching people that this is the case.
@xyz94 nobody said "not acceptable". just generally less acceptable in comparison. nobody is "teaching" this. this is a very organic, naturally evolving preference, that not all men share. it's personal but the trend goes to a "hairless" preference for women and a "hairy" preference for men. individual preference differs.
@xyz94 women prefair hairy men that doesn't mean i can't shave my pits and my junk... nobody is forcing anybody to do shit so i don't see what "huge societal problem" you're raising here.
@xyz94 "We," whoever that's supposed to even be, aren't teaching anyone anything-- the way things are are the way things are *because that is what people want.* I want a girl with smooth legs and a shaved or trimmed pussy and shaved armpits, and I don't want those things and find them attractive and feminine because someone, somewhere TOLD me to want that... I find them attractive because I find them attractive. People, including females, enjoy the differences between the sexes and find their emphasis attractive. That is inherent in all of us-- it's not something we're "taught," and it's not something we NEED to be taught. We want them because we want them. This is no different than me wanting a girl who's shorter and smaller than me, just like most guys do, and a girl wanting a guy who is taller and/or bigger and stronger than her, just like most girls do. Why aren't you moaning about those? Should I criticize you, or other females, if they have those preferences? If they like a guy to have the ability to grow a decent beard?
Spare us. "But muh patriarchy" is not the answer here.
@xyz94 We probably have as much hair as men, it just is very fine, like peach fuzz. You even have hair on your boobs. But when you reach menopause and get drops in estrogen the testosterone takes over and female hair gets coarser, darker, and more noticeable, especially on the face with noticeable moustasches.
I shave my armpits. Ngl, when I had a thicket under my arms, they would stink so bad with or without deodorant. With shaved armpits, I can sweat like a man and still retain my freshness.
Though hairy armpits are natural:hairy armpits look so stank.
You would love my armpits they are smooth as a baby’s butt.
Because men and women have different expectations for each other. Men that DO shave tend to get shamed. Even those real clean cut male models for abercrombie and calvin klein still have body hair.
Men that shave everywhere get called gay and often told by women "You're not a real man! I need a real man, not a little boy!"
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Anonymous
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+1 y
Because men are naturally hairy and women arnt? Duh? Nature has made it so woman have been the traditional wife role for centuries so they are incorporated with rules of looking good. While mens roles are based around a job/profession, masculinity (part of this is body hair, muscles etc)
That depends on where the woman is from. Spanish and middle eastern women have long hairy arm hair. I'm from Ghana and, I have short arm hair that you can barely see.
Look, I know many of you women don't like to hear this but there are certain things that are just inherently feminine and others that are inherently masculine. Body hair is the latter, and there is nothing you're ever going to be able to do to change that.
You women get a pass on sooo many things, but on others you don't. You win some and you lose some. Welcome to reality.
@Moonchild714 Actully ancient Egyptians did it, Ancient Romans did it. It's been going in and out of style LITERALLY for millennia. MEN and WOMEN did it. So it had nothing to do with masculinity or femininity. It was just a cultural practice that people didn't veer from for periods of time.
It's not a femine or masculine thing. Being hairy doesn't make a woman less femine than a shaved woman just as a hairless man isn't less if a man than a hairy man. I've been blessed with not having hair growth other than my head.
"Being hairy doesn't make a woman less feminine than a shaved woman just as a hairless man isn't less if a man than a hairy man."
Well, actually it sort of does. Higher testosterone levels lead to more body hair, on both men and women. And low testosterone levels in men are associated with less body hair, so they do indeed appear less masculine. It's no different from other bodily or facial features that are perceived as masculine or feminine, which of course are driven in part by male and female hormones. Testosterone, being a male sex hormone, is responsible for masculine physical and personality traits, including body hair. That's why body hair is seen as masculine, and of course unfeminine.
That doesn't mean it's unnatural on either sex, but it is definitely naturally perceived a masculine trait. Cultural trends throughout history have been influenced by all sorts of things, but none of them change the fact that body hair is naturally perceived by humans as masculine, and unfeminine. Porn has certainly influenced the current trend toward shaven women, but what it has essentially done is raise the bar for femininity, and I'm pretty sure most men are never going to be OK again with a full bush, for example. We live in modern time, not the stone age, after all.
I get the whole "equality" thing, but we have to live within the bounds of reality, and the reality is that men and women are different, and what we find attractive in each other is different. Always will be.
@Moonchild714 Listen to your comment. "I've been blessed with no having hair growth other than my head." Clearly you're glad that as a woman you have little or no body hair. According to many male commenters it is unfeminine for women to have or "show" body hair. I'm just reporting what i read.
@Moonchild714 Haha, you got pretty triggered there. Nope, I'm not much of a porn fan at all. Sorry to burst your thin skinned little bubble. LOL.
Look, if you don't want to shave yourself, then don't. No one is forcing you to do anything. But just be warned that most guys will find you gross and unfeminine. Do with that information whatever you want.
Regarding your update, there's nothing hypocritical about men wanting women to be feminine but those men not wanting to be feminine themselves. That's just dumb.
A man removing his body hair is simply a man temporarily without body hair. Doesn't make him less masculine unless you prefer body hair. Just as a woman removing her body hair isn't more feminine, unless a man prefers that look.
@Screenwriter Of course. I mean that's the point, isn't it? Men find the 'appearance' of body hair on women unfeminine. Most women, on the other hand, are not bothered by moderate body hair on men because it appears more masculine, in fact many would say they find it off putting if a man shaves his legs or his chest, for example.
I have been in 5 long term or semi long term sexual relationships and every one of those women preferred I keep my body hair and not shave it off. One actually liked my pubes trimmed, which I had no problem doing, but all of them would have found it odd if I shaved my armpits. The point is women view hair on men very differently than men view hair on women. And that is because body hair is perceived as masculine, not feminine (you know, testosterone and all). And it should be no surprise to anyone that generally speaking women prefer masculine features in their men while men prefer feminine features in their women. Duh, right?
This whole thing really puzzles me. Why is it that some people today, especially some women, seem to think the rules of human attraction have suddenly all become meaningless? They haven't; we are still human and we are still attracted to the same things in the opposite sex we have always been attracted to, because DNA and millions of years of evolution, and all that. Why would they think all of that somehow suddenly no longer applies? I don't get it.
I'm simply referring to the fact that men did not require their women to shave off their underarm and leg or pubic hair until the 1930s and forward. In the 1970s no one was trimming pubic hair. In fact a jungle bush was considered sexy and feminine. It meant the woman was more "womanly." There are some cultures/religious groups that have removed body hair for a long time. I'm referring to US customs. But since the proliferation of porn on the internet there's been a shift. In porn films men and women have been denuded because it makes men's junk look larger and women's more visible on camera. So this has been adopted societally as if porn standards are what we all should present. The men in these films, who used to be very hairy, are now shaved smooth. And women who used to at least have pubic hair, are lasered clean. This isn't about a longstanding tradition. Anecdotally, I'll say my mom never shaved her legs and she had long black hairs on them. She shaved her underarms, though. My dad seemed to think this was sexy. She wore sheer stockings too! My father clearly thought my mom was feminine enough. So, I hope there are men out there that aren't so rigid about what constitutes femininity and masculinity, and takes the woman as a whole.
@Screenwriter "In fact a jungle bush was considered sexy and feminine."
Can you provide some evidence to support this ^? I would surely like to see it.
What has happened over he last couple of decades is the bar has been raised. Waxing, laser hair removal, inexpensive razors with multiple blades than make shaving safe, comfortable and easy, the list goes on. Those things didn't exist decades ago. The bar has been raised and we'll never go back to the dark times when the full bush was acceptable. Most women will not feel feminine and attractive with armpit hair and a bush, and most guys will never be OK with that either. We have evolved.
The same lame reason today's society expects women to shave their carpet. Natural look is ok for men but women are expected to be bare as a hardwood floor.
Pick up some history books, and you will see that for hundreds of years, there have always been body trends, ie ideas of how women 'should' look, promoted throughout the ages, for example the Victorian corset, the Rubens, a medieval image of a woman with a small bust and slightly enlarged stomach.
This information is all out there are easy to find.
Similar trends are NOT found for men throughout history. Fashionable clothes, yes, but not fashionable BODIES for men. For women? Always yes!
@xyz94 "Similar trends are NOT found for men throughout history." lmao have you ever seen a greek statue? Greeks and romans and many other europeans went to the gym and related designated training places to try and get the ideal body for thousands of years.
@Thatsamazing "So, uh, that isn't true" - Erm, yes it is - as I said, the information is readily available online, and in books... Just one example: https://www.scienceofpeople.com/beauty-standards/
"Erm," no it isn't, and again, well done on not answering my question-- where did these standards *come from,* if they allegedly aren't *what people actually want in the first place.*
@Thatsamazing 'Where did the standards come from?' Well given that the standards have DIFFERED ENORMOUSLY throughout history, with respect to women' bodies, there must be a social and cultural element to these trends. Humans cannot be born with innate preferences for all of these very different body types... We can't be born preferring both the chubby women considered beautiful in the Ruben era, and also the trends right now for a muscular yet huge breasted figure.
... My God is this the part where you start talking about art history, as in the way females were depicted for about two hundred years of the Renaissance? As in, fat? Please tell me that's not what you're alluding to. Please.
@Thatsamazing No, I am not referring to *just* art history; there is evidence of what was found attractive in previous centuries from descriptions in literature and other sources.
Medicine was bad in the middle ages, and the renaissance it was not good either. Classical antiquity had better medicine, and so people understood the human body better. Beauty is always related to function, beauty standards are then related to our understanding of function. When people relearned that being fat was bad for the health, it disappeared gradually. Its not until the Enlightenment Era however that the fitness revolution begins with Eugen Sandow in Britain and many others in other countries. The 1960's is really when fitness becomes mainstream. Because our understanding of medicine, physiology and function of the body is accurate and stable now, there no real way body standards will change much again into something unhealthy.
The Romans were the first society to go for clean shaven because their soldiers couldn't be grabbed by the beard and have their throats cut. Had nothing to do with looking like a boy. A grown man doesn't look like a boy in the face, even clean shaven. Beards are in style again. It's not about looking masculine. It's the fashion. Same with body pruning.
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