If it's ok for short women to say short men are unattractive, should it be ok for fat men to say fat women are unattractive?

[marish01]

[KorvoWintrish]

The deeper evolutionary/anthropological take here is that what traits someone finds "physically attractive" or "physically unattractive" are influenced by what those traits signal in a person, either about their individual character (if it's a typically mutable characteristic), or about their genetics or epigenetics (if it's an immutable characteristic).

For instance: if the fat is from a health complication, and you're not at least attempting to fix it, you don't take medical problems seriously; if the fat is from simple overeating and/or laziness, it's a signal to your vices of gluttony and sloth. Neither state is a good marker for relationship or family-building prospects, and is thus unattractive. The only time this rule is broken is in times of scarcity, heavier people (typically) have greater access to resources, so at some times in human history, heavyset people (men and women) have been deemed one attractive ideal. But equally in those times of scarcity, heavyset people may be deemed "hoarders" and ostracized from their communities for keeping food to themselves that could be shared.

Obviously, people who fetishize high weight are an outlier here, but I don't think you really want someone to find you attractive because you fulfill their *fetish*, do you? It'd be like a black woman dating a white man who fetishizes black people (or even black women specifically).

The only "positive" state to be in if you're heavyset, male or female, is if you're trying to fix it. Even just actively trying to fix it immediately changes how people see you, you will get a lot more respect from people, and dating prospects will look at you differently. Though, women be warned that it is biologically harder for you to lose weight, due to estrogen encouraging weight-retention, to store resources (fat cells) for pregnancies and for insulating your core heat. Keep at it, don't lose motivation. Cut sugar, start taking a daily walk, walk the dog more often. It takes time, but you can do it.

[DaveJord]

At this point due to the state of society, it's never going to be okay to say fat women are unattractive. But we all know that men find fat women less attractive than normal women. So yeah, it does not matter if we make the point about fat women or not, we all know the truth. But if you say the truth, you are roasted alive.

And yes, the short man thing is unfortunate, but I get it. See what is missed in these types of conversations is that we are still, as human beings, genetically engineered to find physically attractive mates. Just animals in the wild, because we want the best genetic traits possible to ensure our family lines.

So yes, taller men as see as being more physically attractive, stronger and smarter, because height is tied to your genetic make up.

SO being fat to me is worse, because regardless of your genes, you on some level are deciding to be fat... you do not have to be fat. Let's be honest, being fat and being okay with being fat, is on some level lazy. But on the other hand, being fat and then expecting everyone to respect yours choice in being fat... is like the easiest thing for you do to. Because you put on everyone else to respect your choices, instead of working a little harder to give an better presentation of yourself.

You literally want everyone to respect your being fat, by overlooking the fact that you are fat and then treating like they would treat everyone else who is not fat.

A short man can't do anything about being short... there is literally nothing he can do to make himself taller. So being fat is worse than being short. And it should be okay to say that.

As we all know, since he is a man, we can cancel his feelings out.

[Anonymous]

YEs.

They already do say it all the time. Men regardless of THEIR shape and size, are all attracted to feminine figures and when you eat too much and get a round shape, you no long resemble a female figure but rather a ball.. men of any race, any height and any weight don’t naturally find that att attractive it’s nature.

we all like what we like.

if you are fat and ugly and only want fit tall and handsome well that’s your personal preference, we can’t dictate who you should be attracted to, and the same for everyone else, like who you like..

HOWEVER, if you can’t get what you’re attracted to, it means you have to make some changes to yourself, diet, exercise, possible surgeries etc.. you neeed to be realistic with yourself if you are not willing to change then accept the type of people you’re attracting they tend to look similar to yourself.. if not you’re going to stay alone forever.

[ShellyB]

To me the word "unattractive" is a slightly nicer way of saying "ugly," which is not the same as the concept of not wanting to date a short man, he's not ugly, he's just short. I guess it is "unattractive" in a literal way of not being attracted, but"unattractive" is not the word I would use. The reason I bring this up is that "fat" also can come across super negative. I would not say "you are fat" to anybody in any situation I can think of.

Aside from the wording, my answer is that anybody can be attracted or not attracted to anybody for any reason and it is OK. It's not something you can consciously decide in most cases so there is no point thinking whether it's OK or not, you like who you like. Of course the same works for the other person. If you like Person A and do not like Person B, that does not mean Person A will like you! JMO

[Datboi65]

I think it should be OK for anyone to say that anyone is unattractive, regardless of height, gender, weight or race.

Also, just because you find someone attractive doesn't mean that the other person finds you attractive. If you're fat and you like fit people, it doesn't mean a fit person now HAS to like you or else they're fat phobic. That's not how it works. If you're a short woman that likes tall guys, not all tall guys are gonna want you.

Freedom of speech and freedom of choice are important and we cannot let go of them just to please others.

[AaronKrieger]

That's not even a comparison, since being short you cannot control, lmao. Both can say short/tall people are unattractive and vice versa, but just know that it'll likely rub a lot of people the wrong away.

Also, that it's incorrect to say it as a general fact, since attraction is largely subjective, so a better way to say it is "I find _____ unattractive" or "I prefer _____" as you are identifying it's subjective. Don't even say it that way to be polite either, but it's the correct way of saying it.

[Ozanne]

First of all, I haven't allowed people to just generalize when they're around me. If they personally find someone unattractive or isn't their type, then say so. But to generally just make some statement like it's fact is not okay with me. This goes for women who say all short men are unattractive, or men when they claim all overweight women are unattractive. It's just nonsense. Short men and overweight women everywhere are finding partners, so obviously people out there are either finding them attractive or else they're not particular.

[Riribichri]

Height is a social standard. Not a beauty standard. Beauty standards change. 20 years back slim women were the talk. Now fat ladies with a small waist are apparently sexy. Breast size is a fetish , not a beauty standard. That’s why most beautiful women in the world are at max a B cup. Whereas height reflects wealth , power strength. It’s something that can never change.

[marish01]

That's not fat to have curves and a small waist

[Riribichri]

It is. Even fat women call themselves curvy and pretty these days

[Riribichri]

But height is permanent. Dick size is permanent

[marish01]

So?
Doesn't matter what fat delusinal women call themselves.
Fat women are ugly. Short men are not ugly. Fat women have no self contro which is very unattractive. Men canxt control height and dick size.

[Riribichri]

Short men have and always been ugly. There’s petite fashion , plus size modelling for women. But a guy has only one standard. Be tall , have a huge dick

[marish01]

Nope short body doesn't make a man ugly. Obesity make women ugly.

[marish01]

Only tallness and huge dicks for male attractiveness.
Women need so many things to be attractive
Good skin
Small nose
Full lips
White even teeth
long and thick hair, brows, lashes
Lon neck
High cheekbones
Nice jaw
Big firm breast and butt
Wide round hips
Long toned legs
Slim body
Small waist
Long fingers
Not big feet

[marish01]

Eating too much is not only unattractive but disgusting. Such behavor degrades women. No wonder why tall hot men don't find fat and chubby women attractive.

[Riribichri]

😂 a guy with a girls fake account. Ashick ashick ashick. Everyone knows a women can be beautiful however unlike a man who has to be only tall and big dicked.

[Riribichri]

Highly cheekbones? Most of the things u told aren’t even standard and have been changing 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[marish01]

I'm a girl.
You know most girls don't fit my beauty standards. No wonder why most women don't lik their own looks.
There are too many ugly fat women. It's just mentally retarded insecure ugly women deluded themselves into thinking they are beautiful. They refuse to believe they are inferior to actually beautiful women.
A tall hot man knows his worth. He doesn't touch ugly women

[marish01]

Whales are more beautiful than fat women lol

[Finchie40]

You can be attracted to whoever you want to be attracted to , based off of your own preferences, who gives a fuck what other people think or say , most people in general are judge mental and hypocrites , so don’t listen to anyone else when it comes down to who you are attracted to.

[Constatine]

No it is not from both points of view.

Short women hate it when they are called short and left behind in the dating scene. So why would it be ok for her to say the short men are not attractive. She is doing the exact same thing she does not like men doing to her.

Same thing for people who have a size or 2 more than others , people who are bold and people who are rich.

Mutual respect for each other is the key to a better world

[Rei13]

I wish it was possible to dislike a question. But obviously it is okay for people to have their preferences so long as you’re not being mean/cruel over it. Nobody can control their height regardless of gender but it still plays into attraction the same way appearance/weight does.

[patrick994]

I believe so, however, there is a distinction to be made between weight and height, weight apart from pathological cases of physical, hormonal, etc., can be changed, through training and nutrition everyone can aim to become the best version of ourselves, for height on the other hand there is nothing to be done, so although it is right to have preferences and judge an individual more or less attractive, one should never denigrate a person for a physical characteristic.

[spacemoth]

No. None of it is okay. Y’all gotta quit being so damn shallow. Obviously you should be attracted your partner, but you shouldn’t go around just saying x, y, z.. is unattractive just because you’re butthurt over what somebody said to you. There’s somebody for everybody, so just don’t make the world a shittier place with so much hate and negativity.

[Sonorous]

So having vocalizing an opinion at all should be forbidden?

[Datboi65]

It's called freedom of speech

[spacemoth]

@Datboi65 freedom of speech doesn’t equate to be a miserable asshole lmfao

[spacemoth]

@Sonorous obviously not, but if it’s rude why would you want to do that? Everybody in the world is already going through something shitty, why do you want to add to it so bad?

[Sonorous]

@spacemoth

We both definitely agree that being mean to others isn't cool. For instance, I went through some pretty severe bullying when I was a kid. People made fun of my weight. The fact that I had man-boobs. I was constantly worried about hiding them with thick clothing so that people wouldn't notice & bully me more. Even would wear belts around my chest under hoodies to make it seem like I had a flat chest.

However, even after going through all of that & more, I still believe we can talk about these things in a healthy/constructive way. That's what actually got me to get in shape. People talking about these matters in a more empathetic & informative way.

Ofc, with height it's different. A person can't change their height without dangerous surgery. And being short isn't unhealthy. It's not going to kill a person. Which is exactly why I believe the asker asked this question. I don't believe this question is trying to promote harm. I think the intention is to simply promote fairness.

It's only fair that people are able to more freely talk about the objective harm & objective unattractiveness that comes with being overweight. Else more people will be okay with being that way & it will kill them faster while forcing some negative effects on how they experience life in other ways.

For instance, if nobody told me that being overweight was not an attractive thing, I wouldn't be living this healthy lifestyle I am right now. I wouldn't be able to look in the mirror & see abs or any muscle definition. I'd have more fat & be confused at why few women find me sexually attractive. It's people's opinions that have helped me shape myself into a more attractive person. It's them not holding back the truth but instead, saying it in an understanding & constructive way that has helped the most.

[spacemoth]

@Sonorous Look, I’m glad you took something ugly and made the best out of it. I truly am, but it doesn’t end like that for a lot of people.
I used to come home trying to hide scratches, bruises, and burns that OTHERS inflicted onto me… because I looked different, because people talk and make rumors, and kids can be cruel. I have experienced this type of bullying in schools growing up & at home from a family member.

To this day, I refuse to make fun of others physical attributes. I don’t wish that feeling on even my worst enemy because I know what it’s like crying every time you look into a mirror because all you can spot is things that are wrong with your face and body. I know what it’s like to have starved myself sporadically or for a month at a time, crying over a toilet because I felt so fucking guilty for eating something as small as one cookie, or even exercising in my bedroom in the middle of the night for hours until I’d black out from exhaustion. Waking up at 3 in the morning every day while the whole world was asleep just to make sure I was as perfect as I could be by 6 am because God forbid somebody see me… as just me. I know what it’s like to cry every night before going to sleep wishing you’d never been born at all, or thinking of how much better everybody in the world would be without me in it.

[spacemoth]

@Sonorous All of this just to say, this is something I know for a fact I’m not alone in experiencing, and while I feel good knowing I’m not alone, I feel SO broken knowing that others have felt or even still feel this way. I wish people would just stop and take the time to realize that we ALL have shit we’re dealing with. We don’t know if our harsh words are the last thing people will hear. I have two close friends who ended it all because of the bitterness of people.

Even if people are mean to me, I know that hurt people hurt people, and all I can do is hope that they heal the parts of them that are hurting. be the bigger person, and know that your people who will accept you for who you truly are will eventually come around and love you for being you.

[Sonorous]

Exactly! Your case is also an important example of why being mean about it is wrong. It does more immediate harm than good. But like I said in my comment above, I believe it can talked about in a healthy, constructive, empathetic & informative way. Where the person doesn't feel incomplete & lost. But rather they just are confronted with ways that they can improve for the better & know the proper ways of dealing with whatever issues they have (in this case being overweight & unhealthy).

I think it should always be normalized that being overweight is unhealthy. And more in a facts over feelings way at a certain point because our species will avoid a lot of suffering if we stop catering to people's emotions & just tell them the truth. However, if a man is short, nothing we can do about that. If they're not overweight & shirt then they're not unhealthy. Sure, women can still tell them that their height is the reason for why they're unattractive, and they do. But it's not something someone could easily change with habit so it's worse in my opinion.

[Datboi65]

@spacemoth Let me explain what I said so we're on the same page.

Idealistically that should be true. Being mean is not nice, I think we can both agree. Realistically? There will always be mean people at the end of the day. Rather than focusing on the negatives, understand that you can't change what other people think of you sometimes if they are set on their ways and are too vocal about it.

I was the only Black kid in a class at some point in middle school (6th grade) and I was picked on and called all kinds of names you can possibly imagine. I have seen evil that you cannot truly fathom, people doing horrible things unprovoked to others that don't deserve it. I step in and try to defend people when I can, but I also know that bad people exist.

[Datboi65]

@spacemoth Now that was the conversation about cyber bullying. However, sometimes the person is not necessarily bullying, they're just being outwardly honest and you can usually tell the difference. A bully is someone who tries to make you feel bad about yourself even if what they say isn't necessarily true for the goal of feeling dominant over you, and they do so repeatedly. An honest person that likes to express themselves usually gives out their opinion only once (even if you didn't ask them to) and they usually mean no harm.

For the latter, are people like this in your life that you can point to and know what I mean. If an overly expressive aunt tells you that you're gaining weight for example, or a friend telling you that your outfit doesn't match. Sometimes those people can also be strangers online who mean no harm, but it's because you don't have that connection with them where you can think that this person cares about you so you interpret it as an insult instead. This is why I said they have freedom of speech, even if their opinion isn't welcome, because you yourself have probably engaged in that behavior unintentionally at some point in your life and saying otherwise would make you a hypocrite.

At the end of the day you are allowed to be offended or feel how you want to feel about any statement thrown at you regardless of the intention of the individual making that statement, but they also have a right to express themselves just like you also do.

[DextroShade]

It definitely is, especially because short men have no control over their height but fat women are 100% in control of their weight. The only men who get with fat pigs are desperate losers who can't do any better, but women will date a short guy if he's got his money and fitness on point.

[TruthBeTold77]

It's not okay to be mean/rude about it but saying it's not your preference is perfectly fine. I do prefer men that are taller than me so anything over 5"2 is 👌

[Rei13]

I feel the same. Most women want a man taller than them but when you’re short everyone is taller than you making it easy. I’m 4’11 and so long as he is at least 5ft we are good

[Summeroflove]

They’re hypocritical. Just because you’re not attracted to someone doesn’t mean you have to be hateful towards them. We aren’t going to be attracted to everyone. It makes no sense to me

[Paulalove98]

I don’t think shaming anyone is okay, however everyone is allowed to have their preferences on who they wanna date and have a relationship with or whatever.

[OlderAndWiser]

"If it's ok for short women to say short men are unattractive, should it be ok for fat men to say fat women are unattractive?" Who decides that it is "okay?"

[msc545]

@OlderAndWiser He is referring to it being socially okay in that you will not get canceled or ostracized for saying it.

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 I ignore that aspect of our culture.

[msc545]

Sadly enough, it is not safe for everyone to ignore that part of our culture since the consequences of being canceled can be pretty severe for many men.

[AviatorTom]

Of course,, everyone is entitled to express their opinion.

[coachTanthony]

Everyone has preferences. I prefer my women to be women. Not sure why that is so controversial lol

[Staximus]

People can be attracted to only purple aliens for all I care, but what's realistic? The problem here is that short women usually don't have to settle for short men, but fat men usually have to settle for fat women unless they are rich.

[RingOfFire]

If you can solve this equation, I can decipher your question:

[noemiii]

Of course it is. And they already do. But the difference is, the girl can lose the weight. The guy can’t lose the shortness.

[alice55]

In this case it should be ok for shorts men to say shorts women are unattractive but why bring fat people into this?

[Anonymous]

Agree with first disagree with second
Being short is not your mistake but being fat is
You can't expect others to be fit and not lazy like you
(As it goes without saying, medical conditions are exceptions here)

[DaBiggestBird]

That sounds pretty objective to me on both ends. People just need to stop being soft cookie sprinkles and then they’ll realize it’s not as deep as they think.

[Elinnnor]

It depends on the person , but in my opinion, everyone should keep their judge for themselves, not say it directly to others , to Hurt them. Shortly, You shouldn't judge anyone at all. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.

[nastyb]

aren't men already saying that? since when have men hit on obese women?

[Billlewis]

Oh, I love plump, chubby women!

[nastyb]

@Billlewis

yea... well you're one of the rare few.

[Billlewis]

I'm one of the rare few who actually admit it, but I guarantee you there are plenty of guys who love big women; they're just afraid to say so.

[nastyb]

@Billlewis

i wouldn't say plenty... just a rare few.

[nastyb]

@Billlewis

i've been on dating scene for years... only met 2 guys who like fat women.

[Billlewis]

By the way, I started following you and I'd like to invite you to follow me as well if it's alright. Thanks very much!

[Avonlea]

What mouth did come from forget that love and embrace people

[Anonymous]

Hahahaha, women who are shorter than 1.61 meters are not attractive , they will give birth to short children anyway.

[Ozanne]

Wow. How correct you are! Short women, like all others will give birth to very short newborns! Their average length is 50cm. ;)

[Opinion Owner]

Dwarf mothers will give birth to children shorter than the father, a woman of 157 centimeters and a man of 179 centimeters will give birth to sons of 175 centimeters. In the event that the woman is homozygous dominant, they will be even shorter, approximately 171 centimeters.

[Ozanne]

Thank you so much for mansplaining about dwarfism. If dwarfism is what you wish to talk about, this was easily found online:
"If both parents have achondroplasia there is a 50 percent chance to have a child with achondroplasia, a 25 percent chance that the child will not inherit the gene and be of average height"

[marish01]

@Ozanne don't act like you didn't understand what he meant.

[Opinion Owner]

I call any short person a dwarf, meaning someone less than 161 centimeters tall, I understand what she meant but it's unfunny nonsense so that's why I prefer to comment on serious data.

[Ozanne]

I don't recall this topic being about dwarves. ;)

[Opinion Owner]

I answer whatever I want because it is my comment, women who are less than 161 centimeters tall are dwarfs, and they are not attractive.

[KorvoWintrish]

I know you're just joking. But personally, barring heights which may cause health complications, I adore women of all heights, even those who tower over me, as a 5'9" manlet with a 6'4" girlfriend.

[KorvoWintrish]

@Ozanne I'm fairly sure Anonymous is just taking the piss, Ozanne. There's a whole group of memes about all men below 6'0" being "manlets", and there is an equivalent for women and it's right around that 5'3"-5'4" mark (around ~160cm). It's best to just not take offense to them, for some people it's innocent fun, and for others they're trying to rile you up. Laugh it off and move along.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think people should rude and open like that about others. None of us are perfect. Sure, some people are gifted with great physique, height, etc. If someone isn’t your type just zip it and move on.

[Guido]

No. It is never ok to say those things. You may think those things but you should never verbalize them. They are hateful and derogatory comments when directed at a person.

[FellowTraveler]

Whats sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

[DummyThiccFeraligatr]

People can say what they're attracted to.

How society at large responds is another matter...

[Alex8736]

Too keep it simple as a realist I would honestly say "the biggest finger pointers have the dirtiest hands"

[KorvoWintrish]

"Let he without sin cast the first stone"

[monkeynutts]

I lost all my fat, so far women, can be very unattractive. So I'm not a hypocrite.

[Danny_dan92]

Definitely not. Double standards are double standards

[SwiftyForever]

All toxic

[love_conquers_lust]

They can say and do as they prefer as the law allows.

[Iron_Man]

They like what they like, no matter what they look like themselves

[OddBeMe]

It’s ok to say any of that or have preferences no matter what. People will still judge you. Are you wanting to not be judged?

[Twalli]

Why not? I say fat women are unattractive to me. I am not fat though. However, even if I was, that wouldn't ch6

[Anonymous]

yeah because that fat guy probably knows he's fat and unattractive too

[Lokiion]

Height and weight are two different things you can control weight but not height so sure

[Pete671]

Is a fay man one who is not overweight please?

[Anonymous]

100% I mean it’s wayyyyyyy easier to lose weight than to grow a few inches

[Anonymous]

Being short is a feminine trait therefore it is seen as attractive on females but unattractive in males.

Being fat is a lazy habit. Not healthy or attractive in either gender.

[Luckycharms12]

Not ok for anyone to say. In shape or not if haven't anything nice to say don't say anything

[Anonymous]

ok according to who? your mum?
just do whatever feels good

[ShesRad80]

sure, its a free country

[bneano]

YES. EQUALITY.

[MementoMori777]

Preferances are preferences I guess lol

[clampfan101]

Basically “Look who’s talking.”? lol

[LegendaryDater]

Should be but I guess it's not in 2023.

[msc545]

yes of course.

[CubaPirate]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion

[LazerBean]

Yeah.

[Anonymous]

Even you're unattractive to me

[Anonymous]

Yes it is

[Anonymous]

well yea

[Anonymous]

No and No.

[KrakenAttackin]

Absolutely.

[robocop666]

I guess so